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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Vampirolol
Member
Kylo keeps growing on me, one of the best evil characters in years.
Yes the "light side seduction" bit was great. I also loved that he got pissed and bashed up some equipment twice. The first time it's cool and menacing but the second time it looks almost pathetic. I like to think those two Stormtroopers who turned tail in the hallway had seen him do it even more times. Dude's gotta lock his shit down, petulant is a bad look.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Agreed about getting no respect from his peers. Hux pretty much told Kylo to go fuck himself after he brought up to Snoke about the Starkiller base weapon being ready.
Eternal Gamer
Member
Kylo Ren seems to be too psychologically unstable to be a powerful Sith, he is good using the force but he is mediocre fighting. I won't be surprised if Snooke kills him or let him die to get a more promising disciple.
Keeping in tandem with the title of the movie, it seems the Force users in TFA are stronger than those that have come before them. No force users in the PT and OT have been seen stopping lasers or fully paralyzing a standing person. It would be within the realm of Yoda and Palpatine's abilities to do so, but we never see it, and given Ren and Ray are relatively new Force users and they're already exhibiting quick mastery of their powers it's safe to say that the 'awakening' of the Force may be happening on a universal level.
Or it's just movie magic and Ray/Ren are powerful in their arts just because cool factor.
Or it's just movie magic and Ray/Ren are powerful in their arts just because cool factor.
ryutaro's mama
Member
LOL.
I mentioned that this morning to a friend. Snoke gave Kylo Ren a lot of rope. He was fucking up, the entire move:
- letting the droid escape by failing to set up a parameter,
- letting Poe escape the ship
- failing to recapture the droid
- letting Rey and Finn escape
- letting Han, Chewie and Finn escape
- letting Rey escape the table in DS 3.0
etc.
Snoke is far more more patient than my man, Play Play Tine.
Also, with Vader, shit rolled down hill...if there was a fuck up, somebody is getting choked the fuck out.
Glycemic Beg
Banned
All those are pretty big changes from what we got in the final version. Sounds like they had a grander vision for the movie, in terms of battles, before they toned it down to be a much more personal, character driven film.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This ain't bad.
This could also lead to Kylo being resentful/pissed/freaked by Luke. Having your whole crew humiliated (maybe Snoke's calling him "Master of the Knights of Ren" is actually a jab, and not a respectful use of his rightful title) and then he doesn't even finish you off, just leaves you there because he PITIES you and can't make himself do it?
I dunno. There's something there, I guess.
But people would likely be pretty fucked up at the idea that after denying the turn Vader & Palpatine almost brought him to, that 20 years later he flat out kills like 15 dudes in a darkside rage before escaping entirely.
SparkleMotion
Member
The biggest success of this movie is showing stormtroopers being somewhat competent and intimidating.
Agreeded, that bowcaster bolt fucked him up. He wasn't near full power. Made his fight with Rey easy for me accept.
Anton Sugar
Member
I kinda feel that's just the general series habit of not having much consistency or logic to Force powers. Star Wars is like fictional science-fiction. Things don't really make sense.
I'm not trying to excuse it. It just is what it is.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Luke Skywalker shook shop to avoid catching a case, confirmed.
graffix13
Member
Yep, this nails it. That's why, IMO, Kylo makes for a great character.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Was funny to see Kylo's reaction to Hux talking down to him.
Breathy Man would have snapped his neck after that. Kylo proceeds to whip out his ghetto saber and chop up some office furniture.
Breathy Man would have snapped his neck after that. Kylo proceeds to whip out his ghetto saber and chop up some office furniture.
Sickboy007
Member
Maybe Kylo exhibited those tendencies before he was trained by Luke? That's what I get from the conversation between Han and Leila, plus he seems very resentful of Han for some reason.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Yeah after all those force holds, chokes, and even throwing Rey back like 40 feet right before squaring off with Finn his lightsaber game was decidedly weak in comparison.
Arrowgigantic
Member
The first one I'll give you, but holding someone is just a full body choke and Vader read Luke's mind to figure out he had a sister at the end of RotJ.
Vampirolol
Member
Instead I see Kylo faking a redemption just to get Rey to kill Snooke and then taking his place and be the definitve dark badass, ep 8 ends, people clap and I get my Oscar.
Just got back (or I did when I started writing this). It was a 60% full auditorium at most. I went to an early showing (on a whim. I was originally going to wait a week to see it) and it paid off seat-wise. When I got out of the movie there was a big line-up for the next showing, and I'm grateful I didn't have to wait like that.
My theater's crowd may have been relatively small, but they clapped at the beginning, gasped at a number of moments and cheered a bit when appropriate. Laid back for the most part, and mostly respectful. You could tell that almost everyone there was a fairly big fan. No kids. A couple people checked their tablets about 6 times throughout the film, and all I can say is that I feel sorry for them.
And now, where to begin? First impression, keeping in mind that I'm a huge lifelong Star Wars fan, is that there was a large amount in here that I truly appreciated and will probably grow to love more. At the same time there were some fundamental problems I had with the film that are more substantive than not simply adhering to my personal preferences.
Let me lay out the issues immediate in my mind, starting from Important and going down to Nitpicking:
I. The Writing. You could fix a lot of my complaints here simply by not having a number of characters who keep saying "Han Solo" and "Luke Skywalker." Inapropriate use of full names was all over the place and made a number of moments clunky when they didn't need to be. Just refer to him as "Solo" and him as "Skywalker."
Beyond basic dialogue issues, there's a big problem in how the galaxy on display is framed and how it interacts with the OT. This is the one issue that I was concerned with coming into the movie that played out just as wrong as I expected. As a conception of how we view the Star Wars Universe, The Force Awakens does a poor job of establishing the scale of the two main sides, how The Resistance interacts with The Republic, how The First Order compares to the Galactic Republic. This outcome, giving less rather than more, may have been a nice way of avoiding a mess of even clunkier exposition, but honestly there should have been more to re-establish the sides in contention and how the new main characters really fit into this universe.
Case in point: Am I wrong (maybe I misheard the dialogue), or did they just destroy the main seats of power of this New Republic and its supposedly great fleet with little to no fanfare? If so, it's barely even acknowledged. By faltering here, the film fails to properly establish stakes, and there is no genuine weight to the attack on Starkiller Base.
II. The Music. It wasn't obnoxious like the way a lot of it is used in the Prequels, a big win overall in that respect, but it was clearly not a highlight of the movie. There were maybe two moments of notable new music in the film (at least on this viewing. Maybe that will change). People were already lodging the complaint yesterday that the movie was relying too much on nostalgia, but musically there was an extremely low amount of that as far as I'm concerned. Not once did it feel to me that they were abusing the old themes, which is a great bit of restraint, but honestly they may have held back too much.
III. The Space Battles. The opening TIE Fighter escape is okay, Rey and Finn on the Falcon on Jakku is okay, and the X-Wing rescue at Maz Kanata's place was okay. The attack on Starkiller Base, just mentioned above, is not particularly interesting narrative-wise, and it's not much in terms of action. A disappointment.
IV. Snoke. I hated Snoke with a passion. Probably my biggest visual disappointment in this movie. Really weak and conventional use of CG. If they had just displayed him blue hologram-style, it probably would have been much more tolerable, but if and when he appears in person
V. That junk dealer on Jakku who runs the dispensary or whatever. The only character in the film who came off as almost belonging in the Prequel Trilogy. Not at all a big criticism from me here, but he broke my immersion in all of his 3 or 4 scenes.
VI. Scottish guy on Han's freighter(?). Totally just nitpicking now, but still. He was the only character who made me think I was watching JJ Abrams' Star Trek.
VII. Why even cast Max Von Sydow?
I disagree with the notion that this movie is hurt by being too much of a remake of A New Hope, and anyone who says it hits too hard on nostalgia pandering is missing the point. What problems there are with nostalgia are not failures based on the filmmaker's motive, nor are they problems due to too much elevation of past events/characters to godlike status. The problem is in execution. The aformentioned clunky dialogue makes a lot of OT material stand out rather than fit in with the framework of the new trilogy, and then there's the overall failure to place the new film's "institutions" within a recognizable Star Wars universe. It's a series of small misfires, not an inundation of too much of a good [classic] thing.
And ultimately, sadly, the trailers and TV spots really did show a large amount of the movie and I regret watching them so closely. Almost the entire structure of the film was laid out to me before I saw it. My own fault for watching the footage.
Now for the good. And the good is real:
Firstly, Rey is supreme among all good aspects of the film. Daisy Ridley was quite simply perfect and she elevates this film to such a huge degree. Finn is also very good, and I was glad that he had a lot more of a presence in the film than some early reviews had led me to believe. Oscar Isaac's performance was good, but his character was lacking. Good chemistry with Finn, but there's not much time devoted there.
Kylo Ren was better than I was expecting. I knew he was going to be some OT character's son, and Han/Leia was always going to be the most likely choice. I hated that idea in theory, but I let out the biggest sigh of relief when Han yelled "BEENNNNN!." If he had been named Jacen, even tangentially saddling us with EU nonsense for all time, I probably would have cut my overall rating of the movie in half out of pure selfish spite.
Han and Chewie were solid, Leia was alright, Luke was decent for his 15 seconds. Looking at it now, that really solidifies to me that this movie is carried much more by its new characters than the old ones. That's a strong positive going forward with the series.
Obviously in terms of acting and direction, I was extraordinarily pleased with the outcome, with not having to carry any water for Prequel-level terribleness. On this account alone I would give the film a passing grade. Honestly, I couldn't have been much happier about the performances.
It was good. It wasn't the ultimate dream come true for a long-buried 8-year-old with infinite expectations, desperately pining for a Sequel Trilogy in the early '90s. It wasn't anywhere approaching perfect or unassailable. But it was good, and it added to, rather than subtracted from, my love of the Saga.
My theater's crowd may have been relatively small, but they clapped at the beginning, gasped at a number of moments and cheered a bit when appropriate. Laid back for the most part, and mostly respectful. You could tell that almost everyone there was a fairly big fan. No kids. A couple people checked their tablets about 6 times throughout the film, and all I can say is that I feel sorry for them.
And now, where to begin? First impression, keeping in mind that I'm a huge lifelong Star Wars fan, is that there was a large amount in here that I truly appreciated and will probably grow to love more. At the same time there were some fundamental problems I had with the film that are more substantive than not simply adhering to my personal preferences.
Let me lay out the issues immediate in my mind, starting from Important and going down to Nitpicking:
I. The Writing. You could fix a lot of my complaints here simply by not having a number of characters who keep saying "Han Solo" and "Luke Skywalker." Inapropriate use of full names was all over the place and made a number of moments clunky when they didn't need to be. Just refer to him as "Solo" and him as "Skywalker."
Beyond basic dialogue issues, there's a big problem in how the galaxy on display is framed and how it interacts with the OT. This is the one issue that I was concerned with coming into the movie that played out just as wrong as I expected. As a conception of how we view the Star Wars Universe, The Force Awakens does a poor job of establishing the scale of the two main sides, how The Resistance interacts with The Republic, how The First Order compares to the Galactic Republic. This outcome, giving less rather than more, may have been a nice way of avoiding a mess of even clunkier exposition, but honestly there should have been more to re-establish the sides in contention and how the new main characters really fit into this universe.
Case in point: Am I wrong (maybe I misheard the dialogue), or did they just destroy the main seats of power of this New Republic and its supposedly great fleet with little to no fanfare? If so, it's barely even acknowledged. By faltering here, the film fails to properly establish stakes, and there is no genuine weight to the attack on Starkiller Base.
II. The Music. It wasn't obnoxious like the way a lot of it is used in the Prequels, a big win overall in that respect, but it was clearly not a highlight of the movie. There were maybe two moments of notable new music in the film (at least on this viewing. Maybe that will change). People were already lodging the complaint yesterday that the movie was relying too much on nostalgia, but musically there was an extremely low amount of that as far as I'm concerned. Not once did it feel to me that they were abusing the old themes, which is a great bit of restraint, but honestly they may have held back too much.
III. The Space Battles. The opening TIE Fighter escape is okay, Rey and Finn on the Falcon on Jakku is okay, and the X-Wing rescue at Maz Kanata's place was okay. The attack on Starkiller Base, just mentioned above, is not particularly interesting narrative-wise, and it's not much in terms of action. A disappointment.
IV. Snoke. I hated Snoke with a passion. Probably my biggest visual disappointment in this movie. Really weak and conventional use of CG. If they had just displayed him blue hologram-style, it probably would have been much more tolerable, but if and when he appears in person
V. That junk dealer on Jakku who runs the dispensary or whatever. The only character in the film who came off as almost belonging in the Prequel Trilogy. Not at all a big criticism from me here, but he broke my immersion in all of his 3 or 4 scenes.
VI. Scottish guy on Han's freighter(?). Totally just nitpicking now, but still. He was the only character who made me think I was watching JJ Abrams' Star Trek.
VII. Why even cast Max Von Sydow?
I disagree with the notion that this movie is hurt by being too much of a remake of A New Hope, and anyone who says it hits too hard on nostalgia pandering is missing the point. What problems there are with nostalgia are not failures based on the filmmaker's motive, nor are they problems due to too much elevation of past events/characters to godlike status. The problem is in execution. The aformentioned clunky dialogue makes a lot of OT material stand out rather than fit in with the framework of the new trilogy, and then there's the overall failure to place the new film's "institutions" within a recognizable Star Wars universe. It's a series of small misfires, not an inundation of too much of a good [classic] thing.
And ultimately, sadly, the trailers and TV spots really did show a large amount of the movie and I regret watching them so closely. Almost the entire structure of the film was laid out to me before I saw it. My own fault for watching the footage.
Now for the good. And the good is real:
Firstly, Rey is supreme among all good aspects of the film. Daisy Ridley was quite simply perfect and she elevates this film to such a huge degree. Finn is also very good, and I was glad that he had a lot more of a presence in the film than some early reviews had led me to believe. Oscar Isaac's performance was good, but his character was lacking. Good chemistry with Finn, but there's not much time devoted there.
Kylo Ren was better than I was expecting. I knew he was going to be some OT character's son, and Han/Leia was always going to be the most likely choice. I hated that idea in theory, but I let out the biggest sigh of relief when Han yelled "BEENNNNN!." If he had been named Jacen, even tangentially saddling us with EU nonsense for all time, I probably would have cut my overall rating of the movie in half out of pure selfish spite.
Han and Chewie were solid, Leia was alright, Luke was decent for his 15 seconds. Looking at it now, that really solidifies to me that this movie is carried much more by its new characters than the old ones. That's a strong positive going forward with the series.
Obviously in terms of acting and direction, I was extraordinarily pleased with the outcome, with not having to carry any water for Prequel-level terribleness. On this account alone I would give the film a passing grade. Honestly, I couldn't have been much happier about the performances.
It was good. It wasn't the ultimate dream come true for a long-buried 8-year-old with infinite expectations, desperately pining for a Sequel Trilogy in the early '90s. It wasn't anywhere approaching perfect or unassailable. But it was good, and it added to, rather than subtracted from, my love of the Saga.
SparkleMotion
Member
Perhaps Vader could stop blaster bolts in mid air too, but doesn't need to show off. As far as mind reading, Vader sensed that Luke had a sister without needing to be near him and make him smell his hand.
Anton Sugar
Member
Again: Kylo has at least two chances to just destroy Finn, but he is cocky. He literally lets Finn stand back up to fight multiple times.
There is contrivance there, but some posts are making it sound like Finn went straight up toe-to-toe with Kylo, when that is not the case at all.
Messypandas
Member
Kylo was treat like Snokes little toy boy. None of the actual workers respected him, but they couldn't get rid of him either.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Episode 8 will probably be the best if anything. I don't trust Colin Trevorrow at all then again it is a long way to go. He might shock us.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
So Rey is Kenobi's force ghost child? Ok yes it makes sense.
/s
/s
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Saw this post on GameFAQs, it's beautiful lol.
ryanthelion123
Neo Member
Does anyone else feel that this being A New Hope 2.0 not only weakens this storyline but also weakens the OT. The fact that the First Order is strong enough to build a Starkiller and there isn't a Republic makes it feel like what the gang did in the OT wasn't all that special.
That is my biggest disappointment.
That is my biggest disappointment.
Haha yeah, I mean if those early rumors of Luke going bad had been true I would've been mad as fuck.
In the end, Rian Johnson just has his work cut out for him, because Abrams has put me back in Lost mode, and the answers to all of this better be satisfying.
There's also the scene where Hux tells him they should use the superweapon and Snoke is like "Eh. Sure. Whatever.", or at least that's the impression I got (in the German dub).
This is my guess, as while I have no problem with happy coincidences (The Force works in mysterious ways), it's cleaner that Luke left R2 with an "in event of Rey, break glass" command.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Legit LOL over here.
Glass Shark
Banned
I know it's nitpicking but this was honestly my biggest problem with the film. It felt a little forced and very much spoon feeding. And to be fair, they have to account for people who haven't seen the other films. But the whole sequence about names between Poe and Finn in the TIE was eye-roll worthy.
Orthogonal
Member
That was a good scene, the only thing that bothered me about it is that she did not wave her hand when doing it. That has always seemed to be a required gesture for mind control.
Grover Cleveland
Member
But there is a Republic...
It's in like the third line of the opening crawl.
The Republic was formed after Endor, demilitarized sometime after but they still secretly fund the Resistance (led by Leia) who carry out clandestine operations against the FO
MMBosstones86
Member
I don't know, but that's my name and this is starting to freak me out
CrichtonKicks
Member
That seems plausible (especially given that they don't otherwise explain why he has the map to find Luke) but I would have expected a line from Rey referencing. Considering that they never call him by name in the movie as far as I can tell it would make filling in that bit of backstory in a later movie an absolute bear.
Maybe it's just the parent in me but I still find it totally out of bounds that Luke would leave his child in that state no matter where his headspace was.
And I do like that they didn't give any of the OT characters easy post trilogy lives. I love that Han and Leia did not in fact live happily ever after and that Kylo further compounds their tragedy. So I very much like those aspects here and look forward to seeing more of these from Luke's perspective but, still, I just don't see Rey's abandonment being anything other than total character assassination.
Plus, that would push Jakku too far for me as the Tatooine like nexus of the new trilogy. Destiny and all that, yeah, but Rey happens to get abandoned by Luke on the same planet that the Falcon happens to make it's way too (and TFA went out of it's way to point out that the Falcon's presence is a coincidence) and happens to be where an unconnected old due happens to be hiding out with the secret plans to the Dea...aheam I mean map to Luke Skywalker?
I'm hoping that, instead, Rey's parents are perhaps linked to something Luke finds in the Jedi temple. Maybe a very important Jedi lineage or something that hasn't been referenced before.
I think people are getting caught off guard by Kylo Ren because the character arc they're apparantly setting up for him is one that is typically reserved for the hero.
I like that the villain isn't some 100% super intimidating force using master, but rather rough and unrefined and out of control. It really is a dark reprise of Luke in many ways.
I like that the villain isn't some 100% super intimidating force using master, but rather rough and unrefined and out of control. It really is a dark reprise of Luke in many ways.
fair enough, I did wonder about that.
howdyjacker
Member
Someone questioned why Ren wears a mask....Hello!!! He looks up to vader, to a point he talks to him and emulates him in every way.
Also it's done intentionally that abrams shows how powerful ren is but how vulnerable he is emotionally and with emotions playing such a huge part in the force is not hard to see him flailing about in the final act.
Also it's done intentionally that abrams shows how powerful ren is but how vulnerable he is emotionally and with emotions playing such a huge part in the force is not hard to see him flailing about in the final act.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yeah I got the impression that Snoke was on some next level thinking that was above the petty nature of the First Order.
Estocolmo
Member
Thats exactly what I think and thats what I like about Kylo Ren. He is supposed to be the new bad guy but he just isn't Darth Vader, he has a lot of flaws, and thats because he is still young and is not experienced enough, I do think however he is my age about 26-29.
Snoke honestly comes across how they treated the Emperor in the EU. He was around but he gave 0 shits about everything but studying the dark side. Once he accomplished his Empire it was in the hands of his lackeys to run shit. Kylo fucking everything up? A-ok. Superweapon? sure why not go ahead and fire it. Seems the only thing he cares about is wiping out Luke until he learns of how strong Rey is then he pulls the old Palpatine bring her to me card. Being Palpatine would have offered at least serious motivation for the character
PhoncipleBone
Banned
I really liked that he was tempted by the light side. It was a nice reversal of how things have always been.
How would you guys feel about VIII and IX taking the same general pattern as Empire and Jedi? Personally I think one of the smart things Lucas did with the prequels was set them up as a twist on the overall plot of the original trilogy. I think it would be neat if they maintained a cyclical nature to the whole saga.
SparkleMotion
Member
It's interesting that Finn falls in love with the first person to show him genuine compassion. It's interesting that Stormtroopers are raised from birth. Thankfully they ditched the idea that Stormtroopers are all clones.
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