Mark Hamill went on record and said JJ had him record a new rereading of the line and then mixed in that version with the Return of the Jedi version.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
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Mark Hamill went on record and said JJ had him record a new rereading of the line and then mixed in that version with the Return of the Jedi version.
Not really. Guy is crazy, loves confrontation, was emotionally unbalanced, has anger management issues and was also badly injured. The fight made perfect sense to me.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Kylo told snoke he needed his help getting the map out of Rey. Snoke said bring heeer tooo meeeee!
TheOctodad
Member
Stated that it's military tactic to inflict pain on other areas of your body to keep your brain for focusing on the injury.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Just a bit of a note. Not saying Rey is a Sue but do realize that because someone is gimped doesn't make them incapable of being a sue, nor is rejecting power.
Again, Batman. Super gimped at all, yet poor writing puts him in a Sue state because "he can do all that shit in spite of not being a superpowered hero".
MightyKAC
Member
Just saw the movie and I loved it.
Especially Finn, hands down my favorite character by far.
Took me a while to realize exactly why though until it hit me.
Finn basically became the Mumen Rider near the end.
During the fight between Kylo and Finn I was totally this kid right here.
Especially Finn, hands down my favorite character by far.
Took me a while to realize exactly why though until it hit me.
Finn basically became the Mumen Rider near the end.
During the fight between Kylo and Finn I was totally this kid right here.
It's perfectly in line with the original trilogy. Sure, you are allowed to critize anything, but it's kinda stupid to bitch about Star Wars being Star Wars.
CrowdChant
Member
I'm sorry I missed the rules of speculation that we are required to adhere to. Maybe we should list them at the top of the thread. Not to mention, I don't really think these "hoops" are all that gigantic.
Go re-watch the OT and you can nitpick a lot of the same things. Why didn't Vader just Force Choke Obi-Wan and be done with it? Why didn't he just Force Choke Luke unconscious so he could freeze him in carbonite without a drawn out light saber battle?
You suck the enjoyment out of things like this when you start chipping away too much.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The quote below goes against what you said.
See. This makes sense.
I think a lot of people are trying to make the movie make sense just because they want it to.
That's not how I remember the scene. Ren talks about her resisting him and being force sensitive. At that point Snoke gets very interested and wants him to bring her to him. Force sensitive individuals are rare, especially young ones, so I think he wants to corrupt as many as possible.
I mean, I suppose. But he was irate with this guy who basically betrayed him and is causing problems for him. I think the only way you could explain him not just using force powers against him is that he wanted to toy with him before killing him. But I don't see why anyone would take that risk there when, one, the other person is wielding a weapon that can cut you in half with one lucky swing. Not to mention the guy holding that weapon had at least some combat training. And two, he still had allies lurking nearby who could join in at any moment. Just seemed kind of odd not to just kill him immediately and move on to his friends, even if he wanted to torture him a bit. I'll just have to chalk it up to him wanting to mess around with the guy before killing him so I don't view the scene too negatively.
It seems to me that he did in fact rerecord the lines in a similar manner, though I can't be positive. I guess the voice masking could be different or something. Here's how they're cut slightly differently, I went and looked it up.
If there isn't a reveal of the idea of Luke being related to someone important to the future of the universe then that trailer is a pretty big misdirect IMO.
For the same reason that Vader never Force Pulls Luke's away from him in any of the OT fights; because it wouldn't make a very exciting scene.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Yea Grunberg.... he was in the pilot but he came back toward the end (equally briefly) when Lapidus realized the Oceanic wreckage was faked!
But fine, Heroes and LOST characters then.
I'll take the direction, though, because at least he wasn't another white haired old man.
Asian resistence leader, black wing pilot, asian female wing pilot, female droid and comms officer... very different leadership under Leia than the original Resistance!
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Rule #1 of the internet in dealing with fandoms: Never take anyone seriously who uses the term "Mary-Sue" unless they're making fun of the term "Mary-Sue".
Unless you want people to feel embarrassed for you, then you should throw it around as often as possible.
Unless you want people to feel embarrassed for you, then you should throw it around as often as possible.
Mary Sue is not a criticism, it's a slur. I haven't read the entire internet tho, so if you have a link or a copypasta to a balanced argument explaining WHY she's a mary sue and pointing out why what she's done in this movie should have not been possible for someone with her background I would be happy to read it with an open mind. Truly, deeply happy to.
Raitosaito
Member
Again, we're nitpicking movie logic vs if the film is actually good.
Why did the Death Star have one hole to attack? Why did Vader not choke obi wan to death instead of a lightsaber duel? Why doesn't x wings just shoot Vader down with torpedoes? Why didn't Vader just force choke Luke just enough so he can incapacitate him?
broncobuster
Banned
I don't get it, where is the contradiction? He was doing what Snope asked until the altercations started, and where he also started getting too emotionally invested and even more injured. At some point orders were no longer the agenda, and instead he just saw rage through a window of pain and anger, which also made him extra sloppy.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Where'd she learn about piloting, ship design, engineering? Hasn't she been a scavenger since she was orphaned?
I imagine you can't Force Pull a saber away from a Jedi or Sith.
what in the fuck is a "mary sue"?
WrenchNinja
Member
Im not really nitpicking here. Im not saying why didnt they instant KO each other or whatever. I just don't think the payoff for that meditation and pause was very good. It seemed like it was leading up to something Force-y, to evoke the title of the movie. Instead she just hit Kylo Ren better.
The previous six films have shown that the male Skywalkers are prone to just follow emotion rather than sense in battle. Vader, the one he emulates so much, lost pretty much all of his fights because of that reason. Luke in the OT as well, once he got his emotions worked up got overwhelmed in saber combat most of the time too.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The alternatives were more interesting than a force choke. You could make Ren lose in an interesting way but they don't. Heck, you could have made it where he fell down a hole before he kills or captures Rey and that would be fine, but him losing made him a giant jobber since we already know his accomplishments.
There's a movie reason for him being a jobber but people found things like mental instability etc as reasons for why he lost.
She scavenges ships, and she's a huge rebel fangirl as can be seen from her shack. I think it makes sense that she would have a good understanding of how ships work, and what parts go where, simply from her line of work. The piloting is kinda whatever though. Lol.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Has she worked on a functional ship before? She knows how to repair them, and not all the ships are similar, but she seems very natural at fixing and diagnosing the problems. I'd get it if she worked part time on the Falcon as a way to earn food.
Who knows, did you get enough information from the movie to suggest she couldn't possibly have gotten that background?
Criticism of the insufficient background on a character's skillset to make it believable to the viewer is a good and legitimate criticism, one of which I approve. Doesn't make the character a Mary Sue tho.
NEEEXT.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
It's both, but more yours. Was just giving the cliff notes version
Something your ruling out is that Kylo may know Ren. He seems to have a familiarity with her although nothing is flat out said. His offer to train her may just be mutual force respect, but it shows that he doesn't see her as someone lower than him.
His force push at the beginning of the final fight had nothing to do with a tactical way of knocking her out to bring her to Snoke, and everything to do with her strong feelings toward the father he had just killed.
Google is that way, friend. I recommend tvtropes definition to ensure we're talking about the same thing. NEEEEXT.
I think that's the force. I believe Anakin was also unnaturally good at piloting and repair from a young age even though he had no knowledge of the force or much experience piloting.
Should have fanart of Kvothe in the link
Raitosaito
Member
Same with Luke's ability in ANH.
I don't think it is remotely unreasonable to just assume that over the 10+ years she has been on Jakku, that she has taken on various jobs which could include helping people fix or tune their ships. It's a backwater planet of sorts, so it's not like people would be particularly picky about the help they can get.
Also, I disagree that not all ships are similar. This is Star Wars. Every planetary destroyer also has a similar weakness!
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Yes. I know she's a scavenger who lives in a ship. At best she fixes hover bikes or other hover objects. That's not a space ship or flying one. I know what they're going for because the action scenes on Jakku reinforce what type of character Rey is supposed to be on paper. Overall I let it slide 'cause the idea is more important than the story but it still bothers me.
Good point, I didn't express myself properly. What I should have said that Mary Sue is a trope that is being attributed incorrectly to a lot of characters it doesn't fit, and some try and call that an 'argument'. Thanks for pointing that out.
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