Microsoft seems to be straining real hard to justify Xbox at this point. I still don't think putting all its first party IP on Windows will suddenly invalidate Xbox. There are a ton of people who will still buy those games on Xbox over Windows, probably more than the number of people who'll buy it on Windows. How many Xbox One sales and Live subscriptions does Microsoft potentially think it'll lose by putting Halo, Gears, and Forza on Windows? The Xbox and Windows audiences aren't 100% the same.
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Halo Forge coming to Windows 10 later this year
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
When Microsoft repeatedly claims they are invested in the PC platform and asks us to:
a) trust them this time, after a previous withdrawal from the platform where they provided no aftermarket support to ensure their customers could play their purchased games
b) use their own store instead of a range of existing storefronts that they had no problem supporting with a number of titles until they arbitrarily decided not to anymore
c) use their own executable format which is inferior to the existing Win32 format and is closed by design to Microsoft's benefit,
it makes it very hard to take any of the above seriously when major titles in the Halo series don't come to the platform (after arbitrarily being witheld from the PC, I might add) in favour of a mapmaking tool that only console owners actually benefit from.
This situation would be no different from CDProjket RED releasing Witcher games exclusively on their GOG platform, then throwing the mod tools onto Steam and claiming they "take their Steam customers very seriously as an organization and a studio". They would be slaughtered by the community and the press and rightly so.
The idea that that porting only the mapmaking tools for a console game is somehow servicing the PC market in some way is a complete joke. I realise that your intent as a studio with this release is to support your existing community (which is a laudable thing to do), but in the context of Microsoft's recent and current actions described above how else should PC customers react? It's clear Microsoft only care about PC customers so long as they only receive the occasional bone from them, provided it doesn't upset the xbox one market or its customer base, and on Microsoft's terms only. That doesn't work in an environment where they have direct competitors that are 100% focused on their PC customers, and also happen to offer some of the most commercially and critically successful FPS titles ever.
Emperor Bohe
Member
I'm so confused at this announcement. Just release whole game on Windows, and make it cross play. Who cares about the mouse dudes.
Shifty
Member
I agree, losing 'exclusivity' to another platform operated by the same company isn't going to stop console gamers from buying. Except maybe that one guy on Twitter.
Problem is, MS are dug so deep into the exclusivity hole at this point that it's going to take a while for them to find their way out again.
It's only that active, because every second post is a post that has the Kappa face in it and some people think it's literally Twitter.
Oh, and if only you knew what was happening during the like 28 HaloGAF |OT|'s we went through, even during the time where we had the arguably most disliked Halo games. lol
"Mis-marketing"? It clearly says what it is and what people can expect starting in the title. Then, when you actually read the thing, it becomes more than clear.
You people are just angry that it's not the full game and that's about it.
Jesus Christ. Why do Microsoft need to "test the waters" for a game series that already succeeded on the PC platform and was only withdrawn for arbitrary reasons relating to their console business? If Bandai Namco can release anime ninja fighting games on PC to great success then how can Microsoft find it hard to justify releasing a Western sci-fi FPS on the platform that invented the western sc-fi FPS, a platform that already hosted games in this series?
There is no risk/reward as it relates to the PC market for Halo, this is about justifying their console business while simultaneously trying to lure people onto another iteration of their PC storefront in a piecemeal fashion.
Broadbandito
Member
I'm sure they've done the math.
The value of an Xbox gamer is that the guarunteed 30% cut on all 3rd party software sales, and the potential $60 XBL subscription. The console itself is just a means to and end.
There are some gamers who will choose to play on console, even if PC versions of the game they play come into existence.
MS has 3 types of customers to chase. 1) The console only gamer, 2) the console + PC gamer, 3) and the PC only gamer. Camp 1 alone offers relatively little room for growth. If the availability of these titles on PC encourage some gamers in camps 1 & 2 to forgo their consoles and subscriptions, MS hopes that the shear number of potential customers in camp 3 will offset those losses.
They surely would like to offer products that appeal to people in all of these camps at once, as it would offer them the largest consumer base
justsomeguy
Member
Have you got any examples? I can't think of any "straining" recently, only Phil saying that he wants everything everywhere, so people can use the device of their choice.
They've literally been teasing bringing design tools for xbox games on Windows since 2006 when they showed off a 'POC' forza livery editor for windows. It has nothing to do with PC gaming
Both things were considered very carefully during development and both versions will take full advantage of their respective systems strengths. in this case the shorthand for that without committing to specific features is "Creative Assembly REALLY knows PC RTS games inside out," and Halo Wars as a franchise has had some innovative and appropriate ways to make the game genre work on console. I think both audiences will be pleased and not feel compromised.
PetulantChild
Banned
Even though I can't use the new forge to save my life this is really cool even if it's not the full game, good job 343i.
Good god I hope this breathes some life into the RTS genre.
dr_rus
Member
Oh, I'm sure they can fix that. Converting any Win32 app to UWP is infinitely more complex than converting a (fixed platform) XBO app to UWP.
That's sarcasm if you can't tell.
Which family member of yours did Microsoft kill, again?
RedSparrows
Member
Cool! Great stuff for Halo 5 owners, at the very least.
I truly understand why people would be "mad" at this since they want Halo on PC, but jeez. I can wait until Halo 6, Halo Wars 2 is coming this fall with PC (granted I probably won't buy it as I'm not that much of a RTS guy).
Funny how some people are talking about MS and their lack of commitment to PC gaming and they've been releasing and announcing games (and in this case tools) for PC for major Xbox Games. Ori, Gears: UE, Forza: Apex, Killer Instinct, QB all have been released while ReCore, Sea of Thieves, Halo Wars 2, Cuphead, and I guess Gigantic...lolololol, are all coming this year. So 343i releases a tool for their Halo 5 community on PC and it's (as I've seen numerous times) a "slap in the face"? Smh. As far as announcements go, the only Xbox One exclusive this year is Gears 4 (and I think that's gonna come to PC as well)
I would like a Halo on PC, and having the Forge part does suck since you know it is possible. Time and money-wise, it probably doesn't make any sense for 343i. Taking all that time to port, they could be working on a PC/Xbox version of Halo 6 and making sure that runs well on UWP (as it will be on UWP). I'm just making sense out of it. I do think a Halo 5 on PC would be awesome as Halo 5's gameplay is probably the best Halo gameplay to date, so I do empathize with PC gamers who want to play, but honestly it just seems like a lot of port begging.
Can Microsoft do it? They sure can. That's obvious. Will they, probably not this year...maybe after Halo 6 comes out and they release a "Reclaimer Collection" or something. We'll see what happens.
Either way, good stuff 343i, I tried out Forge but using a controller is just meh, I'll try it out on my PC (if it can handle it...lol) and see if I can come up with something.
Funny how some people are talking about MS and their lack of commitment to PC gaming and they've been releasing and announcing games (and in this case tools) for PC for major Xbox Games. Ori, Gears: UE, Forza: Apex, Killer Instinct, QB all have been released while ReCore, Sea of Thieves, Halo Wars 2, Cuphead, and I guess Gigantic...lolololol, are all coming this year. So 343i releases a tool for their Halo 5 community on PC and it's (as I've seen numerous times) a "slap in the face"? Smh. As far as announcements go, the only Xbox One exclusive this year is Gears 4 (and I think that's gonna come to PC as well)
I would like a Halo on PC, and having the Forge part does suck since you know it is possible. Time and money-wise, it probably doesn't make any sense for 343i. Taking all that time to port, they could be working on a PC/Xbox version of Halo 6 and making sure that runs well on UWP (as it will be on UWP). I'm just making sense out of it. I do think a Halo 5 on PC would be awesome as Halo 5's gameplay is probably the best Halo gameplay to date, so I do empathize with PC gamers who want to play, but honestly it just seems like a lot of port begging.
Can Microsoft do it? They sure can. That's obvious. Will they, probably not this year...maybe after Halo 6 comes out and they release a "Reclaimer Collection" or something. We'll see what happens.
Either way, good stuff 343i, I tried out Forge but using a controller is just meh, I'll try it out on my PC (if it can handle it...lol) and see if I can come up with something.
Mufausa The 3rd
Member
"Hey everyone! We're going to release Halo 5 for Windows 10. We dont have a date yet. But as a teaser. Play this free mode for free until Q1 2017 when we release Halo 5, exclusively on Windows 10."
ATOMICJORGE
Member
I'm really happy about Halo Wars 2 I can't wait to see more information
Shifty
Member
User 73706
Banned
Seems like a fairly safe bet to make that Firefight will cap off the pre-E3 DLC, and then they'll announce Halo 5 PC that comes preloaded with the entire free-DLC run including bonus goodies like Forge.
CamHostage
Member
No sir, I'm not angry that it's not the full game. Making the campaign work for PC would be a significant porting challenge that is not made simple (as some would think) by bringing over the engine for a Forge PC tool. Even the full Halo 5 online experience might be over-extending the team, as although the levels could be brought over (or largely re-created within whatever limitations Forge; I'm not particularly familiar with the tools to know its cap, if any, in relation to retail maps,) the challenges of server maintenance and managing expectations for a potentially massive influx of PC players would be a huge burden on MS and 343 that would only pay off if they also had monetization methods in place to pay for it all.
What I am saying, though, is that the marketing here is that "The Halo Forge Experience Comes to Windows 10 PC", and again, I see the ensuing press release as over-embellishing and ill-describing the Forge PC application since a vital part of the Forge experience is playing your Forge designs as well as enjoying other designers' Forge creations inside the Halo multiplayer online environment. They should have been more explicit in promoting this as an Xbox One companion application for PC rather than as a PC version of the "Forge Experience".
You can make maps on PC. You can have your Xbox Live Friends (as I read it, they intentionally capitalized "Enlist the help of Friends", but hopefully I'm reading too much into how open exchanging will be in the PC Forge?) test your maps on PC. But you cannot publish and enjoy your maps with an open community and everything else Halo 5 grants Forge creators on a PC. For that part of the Forge experience*, you will need an Xbox One and a copy of Halo 5.
*EDIT - ArsTechnica's interview on Forge for PC satisfies some of the complaints I have about the press release regarding limitations not of the app, since it does offer something more like structured gameplay than I'm giving it credit for. And also, I should give MS and 343 credit for not over-emphasizing gameplay in Forge PC since, although I do believe their intentions could have been clearer, they don't try to over-sell you that this is meant for gamers; it's meant for creators.
(BTW, I don't have a Win10 PC and at the moment don't even have my copy of Halo 5, so none of this affects me personally. I simply commiserate..)
It's a great app, having Forge with K&M. I do need to not let my gripes about how it was announced (and just generally my lumping myself in with the crowd that's asking, "Why is MS being so weird with Halo and PC gamers?" ... I understand protecting exclusivity but there are ways of protecting the king while still giving some rooms in the castle if that's what they're interested in, like maybe releasing a F2P Halo in nations besides just Russia, or...) but in the end, it's worth celebrating what is here versus decrying what isn't. Kudos to 343 and MS for producing Forge for PC.
justgames7604
Member
Its really not even that bad, a lot of the OTs over there are still far less active even if you take out the 'kappa'. There was a time where there were more posts about DotA 2 in the Madden thread than DotA OT. One time i thought i was in a division thread because it was literally a page or more of the division. I rarely ever see many threads actually talking about the game they are about once its been out for a while.
Good post.
I'm starting to think taking that risk will start to make more sense if Microsoft can make third party publishers actually give a shit about the Windows Store, at which point it hopes enough Windows customers will buy third party games from it. EA definitely won't because it has Origin.
If Microsoft sees the number of PC-only gamers as sufficient, it could also try making PC-specific games again. Bring back Microsoft Flight, bring back Age of Empires, maybe even make some new games. Though that still won't answer the "why not Halo and Gears" question.
Microsoft is still brushing up against a fundamental truth that has arisen: There are really any kinds of games left that only make sense on a console.
I asked the folks at MS/343 and they confirmed that this unlocks free, full Forge-map play online w/ anyone on your friends list. (Plus, that means you'll be able to fight online w/ M+KB.) Not the same as automated matchmaking by a longshot, but still, free Halo 5 multi for Windows 10 isn't too shabby. My report for Ars: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...forge-mode-are-coming-to-windows-10-for-free/
I honestly don't think MS is "protecting" exclusivity. If they were, all the games that I mentioned in my previous post would be on XBO only (ReCore wouldn't have been announced for Windows 10 as it was previously XBO exclusive). I really think it comes down to development time and complexity, supporting a community that already plays the game and development time of Halo 6.
killer rin
Member
This is honestly so cool. I have always thought it would be an amazing thing for Halo if they could split off Forge to its own program which was on PC as well as Xbox so that anyone could contribute to making maps for Halo.
CamHostage
Member
Well, great! The limitations are important to understand, which is still what frustrated me about the initial statement, but I'm glad that it can allow more or less structured gameplay and not just test running.
It always depends on the build tool, but dropping into a designed level versus testing the full experience of a level with proper rulesets is a little different, I would say. (Machkovech's article did not go into stats or team structuring outside the obviously missing Matchmaking functions, so there's still more to learn about what's possible and to what extent "Halo 5 Forge Multiplayer" can and will make people happy on PC versus what they will need Halo 5 Xbox One in order to fully enjoy on a long-term basis when they publish their map.) I think the press release was careful to not over-state the gameplay implications (because really, you're not going to get a totally complete experience out of just punching a few rounds about and checking the scoreboard,) but the specifics of what testing means inside Forge for PC is good to know.
Eh, you have to treat major pieces differently than you do pawns. Halo is the king of the Xbox brand, so understandably, they are over-protective of it. But releasing Halo Online only in Russia, giving PC gamers Halo cellphone games but none of the real thing, stating in interviews that Halo MCC and other old Halo games in the vaults were only on Xbox simply because of time and money ... that's not the right way to play the chessboard. (And Gears is in a similar boat, I get Gear 4 being an Xbox One exclusive despite the move to PC with Forza and Halo Wars 2, but then porting just Gears 1 out of nowhere with seemingly no plans for any further Gears PC products just makes it confusing why they bothered with it in the first place.)
Someone should make a new thread for this, again this is pretty much Halo 5: Custom Game Edition
Poodlestrike
Banned
Sweet.
Just needs a proper file and custom games browser and suddenly you have a full-fledged f2p multiplayer game.
But...but...that is what the press release says. I guess people need stuff reworded for them to understand. *sigh* Hopefully people can just play "Halo 5 forge multiplayer" on PC and be happy. I doubt that will happen though. I do agree with the article that I wonder how the performance is going to be.
Dat persecution complex. Do you realise how obnoxious it is to claim PC customers should just bend over for scraps of the multiplayer mode of a Halo game, and "be happy" about it? Because hey, where else are PC customers going to go for FPS games, right? It's not like there are 2 major platforms on PC hosting massively popular FPSes that put their PC customers first.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Very cool news. Perhaps 343 is testing the water for pc based map editing for future titles. I've always wanted a full map editor on pc like Custom Edition had. Would be cool to build a map on PC, do some on the fly spawn modifications while testing on Xbox, and then fine tune the details on PC.
Hey Frankie, does this mean that Halo 5 is running on some iterated version of the original Blam engine? If so, is the game still using .map file structure? The engine seems very modular.
The large iterations of the engine have been a huge strength of the series. Loading single player and multiplayer maps the way Halo does has created a really good sense of continuity from game to game.
Hey Frankie, does this mean that Halo 5 is running on some iterated version of the original Blam engine? If so, is the game still using .map file structure? The engine seems very modular.
The large iterations of the engine have been a huge strength of the series. Loading single player and multiplayer maps the way Halo does has created a really good sense of continuity from game to game.
Best post launch support for a console game.
Multiplayer still solid as a rock and firefight otw
Kssio_Aug
Member
Well... if you think like this, every game in the world that's not released for PC is a huge slap in the face of PC gamers. Pretty silly this line of thought.
Fata1moose
Banned
I blame that Fata1moose guy.
Sounds lovely. Cant wait for more information.
They really need to rename it to that, Forge: Halo 5 Edition is a wonky arse name.
Halo 5 Forge + Custom Games is fine
Halo 5 Custom Game Edition
Halo 5 Customizer Edition
Forge Halo 5 Ediition sounds like Halo 5 themed DLC for a series called Forge
Halo 5 Custom Editon, I like the sound of that. Brings back some fond memories of Halo Custom Edition just need a server browser
deletethis123
Banned
Halo 5 Custom Editon, I like the sound of that. Brings back some fond memories of Halo Custom Edition just need a server browser
Halo CE is not a memory yet, it's still going strong. You should check it out again!
LordRaptor
Member
What games on any platform have creation tools available for a title that is not available?
This is literally the only example I can think of. Its really not surprising PC gamers are slightly bemused.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Oh, is that what you call the responses in here?
nillapuddin
Member
(only forge gif I have)
Im down for this
I really think this guy gets it
at the end of the day, "casual gamers" will always prefer the plug and play nature of an Xbox, I dont feel like Halo being on W10 is going to lose xbox player as much as some people think.
Fingers crossed for Halo 6
LordRaptor
Member
Well, bemusement is certainly my take.
I guess the spectrum goes from "lol wut" to "Oh, fuck you MS", and is based on whether you feel MSs history with PC gaming is down to incompetence or maliciousness
SpartanN92
Banned
So what does this mean?
Does this mean that PC users will be making maps for console users or is it just Forge/Customs for PC?
Does this mean that PC users will be making maps for console users or is it just Forge/Customs for PC?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Two things:
Xbox users using their PC to make forge maps for other Xbox users.
Forge and customs for PC.
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