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Phil Spencer: We're upping our investment with first party and committed to innovate

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Papacheeks

Banned
Sounds like they are chasing the money. Single player games are rare so they plan to make less of them. HUH? I guess they can't really say much else, since Xbox first party is pretty thin compared to the competition. I guess my Xbox One S will stay a UHD player mostly.

With the past two years of releases and games like GTA V that sold extremely well before the online took off the way it did would say their totally wrong.

All the copies of witcher 3, gta v pre-online, uncharted 4, horizon, bloodborne, farcry, ac doom, among many others would disagree with that statement.
 

Sulik2

Member
If Phil is to be believed about this, this is what seems to have happened to me.

First he had to fix the backwards direction the brand was taking under Matrick.Killing the last vestiges of kinect, redesigning the UI to be a bit better and most importantly fixing the poorly designed hardware. Starting with the S and culminating with the Scorpio. Along the way he killed dead weight games that were in development that weren't going anywhere and refocused the first party studios they did have on their most valuable brands with Halo, Gears and Forza.

Now that he has the basic infrastructure of the MS gaming division fixed and well designed hardware coming, he can focus on rebuilding their first party. Hopefully with a focus on new IP that made the OG Xbox such an incredible first party system. Seems like Sea of Thieves is the first step in this direction.
 
This forum is funny. When Scoprio was announced the question was: where are the games? Now that we have some hints of some exclusives the type of games is the problem. Guys, If you don't like what they offer don't buy. Not every console is for everyone, I have to tell that. And aren't we reading a bit too much on this statement?

I don't understand this sentiment. A console is just a computer that plays games. If there are wide variety games for everyone then the console should be for everyone.
 
I dont think it would be surprising to see MS first party move more into multiplayer/service based games, but god that is such a competitive market. I hope their teams can find success there of course. At least Crackdown and Sea of Thieves seem more unique compared to others on the market.
 
As much as I like Phil, his stance on SP games is just... silly. That is the one thing they need to focus on to be competitive in the first party space.
 
I'm not shifting goal posts, I still stand by original statement, but your counter isn't really helping your cause.

Why on Earth would anyone pick between Thing 1 and Thing 2 if Thing 1 has everything that Thing 2 does but more?

First party exclusives aren't everything but they're one of the biggest things a hardware manufacturer can do to entice people. What do you think is more compelling if you don't agree?

What would you say my "cause" is that I'm not helping? I don't recall saying that first party exclusives aren't important. I've said that they aren't the only reason that people are driven to one platform or another. I think diversity is key there, and Sony has that in spades right now. Microsoft has plenty of exclusives, they just don't do enough to diversify their library. Can we move on?
 
he is clearly indicating that MS will not be doing large SP AAA games. Indies are great and all, and I love quite a few of those (like the recent Cosmic Star Heroine) but that's not what we are talking about here.
I don't see how you can say that the takeaway from that quote is that they won't invest in those games.

He is just mentioning indies that he liked (both of which were/are times exclusives), but he message couldn't be more clear about how Xbox needs that audience as well.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
If Phil is to be believed about this, this is what seems to have happened to me.

First he had to fix the backwards direction the brand was taking under Matrick.Killing the last vestiges of kinect, redesigning the UI to be a bit better and most importantly fixing the poorly designed hardware. Starting with the S and culminating with the Scorpio. Along the way he killed dead weight games that were in development that weren't going anywhere and refocused the first party studios they did have on their most valuable brands with Halo, Gears and Forza.

Now that he has the basic infrastructure of the MS gaming division fixed and well designed hardware coming, he can focus on rebuilding their first party. Hopefully with a focus on new IP that made the OG Xbox such an incredible first party system. Seems like Sea of Thieves is the first step in this direction.

Sea of thieves is GAAS. Which is the issue people are talking about. We hope going forward that any new IP doesn't have that attached to it's design.

As much as I like Phil, his stance on SP games is just... silly. That is the one thing they need to focus on to be competitive in the first party space.


I think his and many others at xbox are jaded view wise because of seeing lack luster reception and sales to their single player efforts. And that would be because they seem more focused on GAAS instead of just trying to promote all their games as what they are single player or otherwise. They think just having single player games on their box is the same as how Sony's single player library is received. Which it isn't because xbox has chased the DLC, EXCLUSIVITY, third party route for a while only now since they are not top dog that they have to rely on their own internal and external projects. And unfortunately they made a landscape that was all about online, so of course when you put a single player only game out with no online functionality it's going to tank unless it's attached to an existing franchise or brand.
 

Bluenoser

Member
No, for you it is and for the mass on here. Not the actual market.

GAF proves time and time again it is very out-of-touch with the masses.

But the masses are choosing PS4.

Why? I would guess many reasons.

You can play all of the GAAS games on PS4 that you can play on XB1 (except maybe 1-2 F2P on each system? not sure). But the bottom line is the big games like GTAV, Destiny, Overwatch, etc are playable on both platforms.

But PS4 also has a bunch of other exclusive games that appeal to a different audience.

So Phil is not wrong to want to push those types of games- they make money. But you have to have options as well. Ori was probably the best single player exclusive on XB1, which shows they didn't put enough effort in that space. Quantum break and Ryse are B tier games- there's no other way to put it.... if their success is the metric by which Phil decides SP games don't do well, then I'm not sure what to say.
 

black070

Member
A lot of you seem to care more about what will make Microsoft more money then what will satisfy you as a consumer more.
 
Sea of thieves is GAAS. Which is the issue people are talking about. We hope going forward that any new IP doesn't have that attached to it's design.
But it will because once again, those games generate money hand over fist. I was playing wildlands with a friend. I was level 5 with a decent assault rifle and a starter sniper. He was like "check this out"

Pulls out these killer guns that just destroy everything in its path "yeah I dropped $40, bought some shit, got us xp boosts too"

So I turned around and spent $20. The system works


I feel like people want Xbox one to be a PS4....::but it's not a PS4 it's a Xbox one
 

Floody

Member
SP Games don't sell well to their audience? So why bother with one trick ponies I suppose.

But they do, there's been plenty of 3rd party SP games that have sold well on the Xbox One, it's been the 1st/2nd party offering that haven't done much.
I really don't see offering just games that are design to keep the player playing it and nothing else going well. A few (KI, Halo 5, Forza Horizon 3) would work, but if everything is trying it eventually people will get sick and either just never touch anything new or worse go elsewhere where you have the big GaaS games but also big budget SP games to complement them.
 

jayu26

Member
No, for you it is and for the mass on here. Not the actual market.

GAF proves time and time again it is very out-of-touch with the masses.

I don't know. All the single player games coming out PS4 and Switch from both first and third parties seems to be doing fine. The publishers are happy and making profits on these games. Seems like there is money to be made if a good game is made and expectations are kept in check. Gaf bubble only applies to expectations of certain games like Wildlands.
 
But it will because once again, those games generate money hand over fist. I was playing wildlands with a friend. I was level 5 with a decent assault rifle and a starter sniper. He was like "check this out"

Pulls out these killer guns that just destroy everything in its path "yeah I dropped $40, bought some shit, got us xp boosts too"

So I turned around and spent $20. The system works
Again there's a difference between what works as a third party dev and as a platform holder. Nobody is arguing that GaaS aren't popular and don't make a shitlod of money. The issue is that the real success of a platform needs to come from more than individual games. It's more important for MS to draw people to the Xbone than it is for them to sell individual games, because they'll get a cut from all the games sold on their platform as well as all the micro transactions
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
No, for you it is and for the mass on here. Not the actual market.

GAF proves time and time again it is very out-of-touch with the masses.

Is GAF out of touch? Or is Microsoft? Why do the masses eat up PS4's like crazy?

Microsoft has been out of touch with their market ever since the second half of the Xbox 360's lifespan.
Perhaps this move towards GaaS is a good one for them, but it's also a very risky market to excel in, with plenty of flops or cancelled games in it's wake.
I'd be hesitant to applaud any games publisher that decides to divert it's efforts exclusively on the stuff that gives the biggest return for their investment.
And it's weird to act like Microsoft knows what's best in terms of first-party when the competition is continuously blowing the doors off when it comes to exclusives and is trouncing you in sales. It's certainly no surefire way to success.
 

MisterR

Member
A lot of you seem to care more about what will make Microsoft more money then what will satisfy you as a consumer more.

Yep. It's probably wise to chase after that games as a service stuff, but I get that from third parties on the PS4, I'm much more interested in AAA SP games. MS isn't in financial trouble and I don't care how much money they make. I want games I'm interested in.
 

jelly

Member
Spencer could misread the stats. Xbox 360 users watched a lot of Netflix etc. so the mess that was Xbox One was the outcome but users didn't want that, they wanted to play games and PS4 steamrolled them.

Maybe because Xbox has few and far between great SP games and poor ones, the stats reflect that users are playing other games and many that are multiplayer in nature or play while online in some manner not necessarily online play or spending money on micro transactions on games that are good, say Halo 5 multiplayer which have REQs so the stats favour his viewpoint which might not be the whole truth. Putting your eggs in one basket failed last time and it will fail again. Catering to a broad user base brings success.
 
But the masses are choosing PS4.

Why? I would guess many reasons.

You can play all of the GAAS games on PS4 that you can play on XB1 (except maybe 1-2 F2P on each system? not sure). But the bottom line is the big games like GTAV, Destiny, Overwatch, etc are playable on both platforms.

But PS4 also has a bunch of other exclusive games that appeal to a different audience.

So Phil is not wrong to want to push those types of games- they make money. But you have to have options as well. Ori was probably the best single player exclusive on XB1, which shows they didn't put enough effort in that space. Quantum break and Ryse are B tier games- there's no other way to put it.... if their success is the metric by which Phil decides SP games don't do well, then I'm not sure what to say.

This.

A lot of you seem to care more about what will make Microsoft more money then what will satisfy you as a consumer more.

Yeah, seems like investors are talking. If you're someone who love videogames and from all types then clearly Microsoft have a problem right now.
 
But it will because once again, those games generate money hand over fist. I was playing wildlands with a friend. I was level 5 with a decent assault rifle and a starter sniper. He was like "check this out"

Pulls out these killer guns that just destroy everything in its path "yeah I dropped $40, bought some shit, got us xp boosts too"

So I turned around and spent $20. The system works


I feel like people want Xbox one to be a PS4....::but it's not a PS4 it's a Xbox one
Those games work when on as many platforms as possible to reach the widest audience possible. Again, your anecdotal evidence of your buddy dropping $40 isn't representative of all (or even most) players. Most players won't buy DLC or microtransactions. But if you cast a wide enough net, and get enough people to play the game, if only 10% of players bite the hook and spend extra money, you've made a lot of extra revenue. If those games are limited to one patform, with a smaller userbase, then they are going to have less people biting that hook, less people talking about the game and getting new people to buy it, etc.
 

Crayon

Member
No, for you it is and for the mass on here. Not the actual market.

GAF proves time and time again it is very out-of-touch with the masses.

You are still riding out an avatar bet you lost by betting on a wild fantasy. Maybe go easy on the out of touch talk.
 
Every time I read a new Phil Spencer interview, I come away having learned absolutely nothing.

Yup. And now pretty much shitting on first party single player story heavy games, the main games I really care about since I only play a handful of online or multiplayer games and generally care way less about them.
 
Yeah the demand for a first party title when there was none for 3 months would do that. Same goes for Zelda, of course it sold well, it was the only game on the system really worth buying for the general public.
There have been successes beyond that period as well. Horizon Zero Dawn is one of the strongest selling new IP from this generation.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
So you played the full game? Alright I'm glad we cleared it up.

Unless they are hiding more to it, I'v seen a bunch on it. Unless E3 they blow the lid off of that game and there are more sea monster than the kracken then I guess it is more of a MMO. But from what iv' watched it looks barren and something that unless you have a social gathering of friends with you would get boring playing solo.
 

Hexer06

Member
Another thread for ppl to keep spouting "halo, gears, forza" even tho they've put out a decent variety throughout the life cycle this gen. Sadly, single player games haven't sold well on Xbox (quantum break, Ryse, sunset overdrive, recore, etc) while multiplayer driven games have. I love my single player games, and I don't take this as Xbox will never make a single player driven game again (as some ppl here seem to think he means). It's just hard to convince the higher ups to make a SP focused game when they don't sell well, while the big gaas/multiplayer games are selling really well. It sux, but that's the stupid business world for you.
 

wapplew

Member
"it’s a difficult business decision for those teams, you’re fighting into more headwind."

How does that not apply to GaaS games.

You show the result of MS game with card packs and the result of MS single player games to investor, you get money for the former, simple business.
 

watdaeff4

Member
Glad phil is admitting the problem.

Now need to fix it. Hopefully E3 will have something to show.


IIRC he "admitted" this problem two years ago and said they would fix it. While I understand this takes time to fix, the same line without any proof (teaser, PR release, etc) of improvements doesn't hold much water with me
 

gamz

Member
"At all"

Oh come off it, the resolution talk was a major dominant of the early years of this gen. not the main reason but to make out it played no part at all? Nah I can't agree with you.

The first two years it was all about Rez and being more powerful. Now it doesn't matter. What happened?
 
Those games work when on as many platforms as possible to reach the widest audience possible. Again, your anecdotal evidence of your buddy dropping $40 isn't representative of all (or even most) players. Most players won't buy DLC or microtransactions. But if you cast a wide enough net, and get enough people to play the game, if only 10% of players bite the hook and spend extra money, you've made a lot of extra revenue. If those games are limited to one patform, with a smaller userbase, then they are going to have less people biting that hook, less people talking about the game and getting new people to buy it, etc.

Of course anecdotal evidence gets tossed out the window,
Surely me and my friend and maybe only 100 other people did that. When will we stop dismissing the truth? People love to spend money.
what about GTA online, surely no one spends mictotransaction money there.

These companies don't release pie graphs and charts for me to show to you, so anecdotal is all you can get it.
 

kadotsu

Banned
Yeah the demand for a first party title when there was none for 3 months would do that. Same goes for Zelda, of course it sold well, it was the only game on the system really worth buying for the general public.

But SP continue to sell now, with a huge library. There are also many service games failing left and right. There are also GaaS titles that have no retention at all but the dev cost still went up because a GaaS infrastructure costs a lot (For Honor).

It is way easier to launch small(er) scale and work your way up to a service title. There are maybe 5 devs that can launch a service title cold and MS studios aren't part of that circle.
 

Salty Hippo

Member
Keep turning that ship around, Phil.

Kzy03sX.gif


Music to my ears although I hope his comments about the story driven games don't mean the investment in 1st party games doesn't include much of those.

I have some bad news for you.

I mean, he doesn't say they won't have both. He isn't necessarily knocking down SP games, at least how I'm reading it.

We'll see what's on the roadmap for this year/next year... probably more of next year tho.

He is. Someone (finally) asked him about it and he went into full defense mode. He basically told people not to expect those games. If they had those in the pipeline he would say "yeah, we're improving on that". Spencer may be a sleezy door salesman, but he doesn't run away from acknowledging negative feedback (and then lying about improving). This time he didn't even bother to lie and put those concerns to rest. It's obvious he's doubling down hard on a completely different direction.

So basically he's telling consumers to stick to Sony for big story-driven games?

Yes. 4 years later, he has finally equalled himself to Mattrick.

"Fortunatelly there's a product for people who want single-player games, it's called a PS4."

But maybe "equal" is the wrong term because at least Mattrick signed a bunch of exclusive games for the first year of XB1.
 
"it’s a difficult business decision for those teams, you’re fighting into more headwind."

How does that not apply to GaaS games.

A single player only game with no additional content to supplement income after the initial sale is a harder sell for developmentteams than a game with a multiplayer component with DLC. Goes without saying really.
 
Even if MS wants to pursue GaaS as a focus, they still need to make big single player games as well because that will drive more people to the platform which will in turn benefit their GaaS as well
 
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