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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove

Y

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
DAY 2 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Xbro & Karkador (2)
Verelios 1752 1761
Sawneeks 1861
flatearthpandas 1940

Trigger & Ty4on (2)
Nomadic Sparks 1707
Natiko 1933

Darryl & nin1000 (1)
CrimsonFist 1676
Ourobolus 1727 1876
Sorian 1831 1937

kitsunelaine & flatearthpandas (1)
Ty4on 1893

Muffin1611 & Samuraischnecke (1)
Ourobolus 1876

franconp & Dr. Worm (1)
Sorian 1821 1831
Xbro 1897

StarSketch & CzarTim (1)
Sorian 1937

Verelios & WhereAreMahDragonz (1)
Sophia 1871

Ourobolus & kingkitty (0): flatearthpandas 1877 1940

CrimsonFist & Sophia (0): Natiko 1697 1723

No active vote for Day 2: CzarTim, Darryl, Dr. Worm, franconp, Karkador, kingkitty, kitsunelaine, Muffin1611, nin1000, Royal_Flush, Samuraischnecke, StarSketch, Trigger, TsuXna, Verelios (has previously voted), WhereAreMahDragonz

Day 2 Postcount: CrimsonFist 13, CzarTim 1, Darryl 7, Dr. Worm 16, flatearthpandas 8, franconp 16, Karkador 10, kingkitty 4, kitsunelaine 1, Muffin1611 29, Natiko 15, nin1000 8, Nomadic Sparks 9, Ourobolus 24, Royal_Flush 11, Samuraischnecke 3, Sawneeks 11, Sophia 19, Sorian 19, StarSketch 0, Trigger 0, TsuXna 0, Ty4on 34, Verelios 17, WhereAreMahDragonz 7, Xbro 12


Day 2 ends:
pin_1502391600.png

Automated vote tally here

14 votes for majority
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Ty4on said:
I'll just pretend that you stole it from my post

Anything particularly strong? For me it's not one post in particular, but I feel it every time I come across something by him.
Click to expand...

When I read Kark's posts by themselves, it sounds like someone full of shit but when I read Xbro's posts with his, it's pretty clear that Kark is really saying these things in their chat (at least yesterday) and that Xbro is just kind of getting swept up in it.

Also, just him on his own, you can tell most of his posts are ticking check boxes for novice level scum hunting. Can all of that stuff be faked? Probably but I'm not really feeling it here.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Sawneeks said:
Okay, then my follow-up question is what made you stay with your original Ouro Town Read despite his shaky Fireblend read? If anything I would have kept pushing that point further since he seemed so shaky on it despite being so high on his list, especially considering that was followed very quickly by Ouro trying to distance himself from Fire. Instead you bring up points regarding Ouro and Fire not being W/W and how that makes no sense but I see no instance brought up of a Scum!Ouro accidentally reading a Town!Fire stronger than he should have. Why?

Also curious as to why you never did anything in regards to Crimson/Sophia despite feeling 'off' about them early on and then mentioning how they should be brought up more. Same with how you ended up Town Reading them, that just sort of popped up without much of an interaction between you three. Your explanation here makes sense for Crimson but I don't see how the latter is alignment indicative.

Huh, it does the same to me for that post as well. Here is #694 if anyone wants it.

And I know there are posts missing, I mentioned as much. Those later posts were when my eyes started to really glaze over as I read and I just left out chunks of posts because I got lazy.
Click to expand...
I feel like scum Ouro reading Fire too strong was assumed. I brought it up a fair bit, but at one point you have to realize that asking won't get you more.
Ouro read is in a few conflicts. First of all he doesn't seem like he's trying that hard to stay out of sights. His reactions in-between aren't too bad and kingkitty, without being super townie, is still playing much like I expect him to.

Crimsoph were doing a lot so I never really felt the need to prove something. I never felt anything particularly scummy about them (what Vere brought up isn't that atypical for Sophia) and was looking for townie tells. It just feels tinfoil hat; most of what they do is pretty good and I can get an ok sense of their progression.

Am I a boring read? ;_;
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Ty4on said:
I feel like scum Ouro reading Fire too strong was assumed. I brought it up a fair bit, but at one point you have to realize that asking won't get you more.
Ouro read is in a few conflicts. First of all he doesn't seem like he's trying that hard to stay out of sights. His reactions in-between aren't too bad and kingkitty, without being super townie, is still playing much like I expect him to.

Crimsoph were doing a lot so I never really felt the need to prove something. I never felt anything particularly scummy about them (what Vere brought up isn't that atypical for Sophia) and was looking for townie tells. It just feels tinfoil hat; most of what they do is pretty good and I can get an ok sense of their progression.

Am I a boring read? ;_;
Click to expand...

It's ok, I still think your just as scummy as usual in the "I can't put my finger on anything and it's bothering me" kind of way.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Sorian said:
When I read Kark's posts by themselves, it sounds like someone full of shit but when I read Xbro's posts with his, it's pretty clear that Kark is really saying these things in their chat (at least yesterday) and that Xbro is just kind of getting swept up in it.

Also, just him on his own, you can tell most of his posts are ticking check boxes for novice level scum hunting. Can all of that stuff be faked? Probably but I'm not really feeling it here.
Click to expand...
That's a good way of putting it. I can see him trying to follow Kark. He is also very eager to explain stuff and doesn't seem to be juggling with a cover story.
 
T

Trigger

Member
Ty4on is totally not scum.

franconp said:
I, for once, would like to know why Nin, Trigger and StarSketch didn't voted.

Would love some reads and opinions from StarSketch, Nin, Trigger, Nomadic and Xbro instead of just fluff.

Also would like to know anything from Tsuxna.
Click to expand...

Some rl stuff got in the way. If you want specific reads on someone I have no problem giving them to you.

I don't think there's anything new I can add about today's events so far. I'm willing to believe in the silencer. I still have fond memories of the Batcomputer, so I have firsthand experience of Kark using crazy gambits. The relatively quiet EoD vote is what pulls my gut towards him being town more than anything.

Fireblend being taken out is unfortunate because he was a great contributor. I felt like he was a solid town read.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
nin1000 said:
I was not around D1. I know that you know it.
So this question sounds rather dumb and condescending.
Click to expand...

I just think you'd care since your partner pointed one instance out and it's not like day 1 disappeared. You're here now. I just think that was a question for the sake of it and not to actually see the answer.
 
N

nin1000

Banned
Sorian said:
I just think you'd care since your partner pointed one instance out and it's not like day 1 disappeared. You're here now. I just think that was a question for the sake of it and not to actually see the answer.
Click to expand...

Well, that's why I am here now to tell you that it was a question to see an answer.
 
C

CzarTim

Member
My official review after reading half the thread is I think Fran is scum as he's not usually this grumpy and I have a slight scum read on fep but I'm not sure why

AMA
 
F

franconp

Member
CzarTim said:
My official review after reading half the thread is I think Fran is scum as he's not usually this grumpy and I have a slight scum read on fep but I'm not sure why

AMA
Click to expand...

Well, you should read more of my games. Or maybe just ask here for some opinions. I'm sure there are several that will tell you otherwise.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
I'm about to go to sleep but I'll leave a question for you Tim since my vote is for you to talk. Scum reads are fine but where are you on town reads?
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
Natiko said:
I do not, but that doesn't mean there aren't shades of grey. It's an odd post that pinged my radar so I pointed it out. Doesn't push them from a town lean to a scum lean, but it's still minus townie points. I think I've been pretty transparent this entire game with who I lean scum on.
Click to expand...

This is a bit tryhard, Natiko. And an easy "read" to make that tells nobody anything, but at least you did something I guess.

I was told various times in D1 that I'm basically just regurgitating other peoples points and making no effort in doing anything myself from some people, just because I gave my own reads on persons other people already gave. Which was annoying.
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
Ourobolus said:
I think for now my top scum are:

Sawrian - for the aforementioned argument rubbing me the wrong way
Schmuffin - haven't really seen anything to challenge my gut read from D1
Dr. Fran - Worm seems to be playing the "woe is me" card a bit, a fran seems content to shake every tree he can find.

XKark* - a separate line for these guys. Kark's D1 was even more useless than normal. If the silence isn't a gambit, then I would toss these guys into the "neutral" pile for now.
Click to expand...

Ourobolus said:
Vote: Muffin1611
Click to expand...

So your read on me is entirely gut feeling?
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
People I'd like to look at today:

-Muffin
-Kitsune
-Royal

Can't promise an ETA but it will happen soon
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to it.

Dr. Worm said:
Fireblend had a pretty decent read list here, with a clean sum at the bottom
Click to expand...

Now, this is a bit more interesting. Fireblend DID list me as top scum here. But is the argument for it sound in relation to the importance my pair is given here? Not really. It's primarily because he felt I didn't put in much effort, because I came to similar conclusions on Ouro as other people and was following the "status quo"(which I disagree with).

Nah. Ouros read list and weird behaviour seemed to be waved away pretty easily before I made my post on him to pressure him more. This is not following the status quo, but I went over that a few times already.

Now, I guess you can say I was indecisive at the end of D1, but not because I was lacking "assertiveness" as he said. There were two very good options for me, Kark and Ouro, which I pushed myself rather openly (the Kark thing a bit less at the beginning) that I weighed against each other, and then the Darryl-Sorian fight happened and muddied the waters further for me.
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
CzarTim said:
Dragonz probably the most town read for me right now.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this? The most noteworthy things about Dragonz are that she had that discussion with kitsune and goes primarily after new players.

Did you feel that the kitsune discussion was more of a townie trying to hard in seeing suspiciuos behaviour somewhere?
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
Right now I'd like to hear from Verelios on this, if I didn't miss his answer somewhere:

Muffin1611 said:
4. verelios. No real explanation, really. Even mentions that he finds it weird that Kark is not getting much pushback but not delivering on it himself.
Click to expand...

You mention that Kark pushback isn't enough, but aren't doing that pushback yourself.

Thoughts?
 
C

CzarTim

Member
Muffin1611 said:
Can you elaborate on this? The most noteworthy things about Dragonz are that she had that discussion with kitsune and goes primarily after new players.

Did you feel that the kitsune discussion was more of a townie trying to hard in seeing suspiciuos behaviour somewhere?
Click to expand...

Dragonz seemed genuinely frustrated during that exchange in a way I don't think you can fake. But yeah, it was that fight that left me feeling okay about her.
 
N

Natiko

Banned
Muffin1611 said:
This is a bit tryhard, Natiko. And an easy "read" to make that tells nobody anything, but at least you did something I guess.

I was told various times in D1 that I'm basically just regurgitating other peoples points and making no effort in doing anything myself from some people, just because I gave my own reads on persons other people already gave. Which was annoying.
Click to expand...
Leaning town on you is an easy read? Sorry, should I be digging deeper because you're actually scum?

I felt your pair has been overly eager - a trait that first time scum sometimes have as they are overly worried about perceptions and being seen as useful. Despite that, the newbie vibes and frustration at being seen as lower contributors read to me as genuine and town. Enough so that I would lean town on you despite the points that have given me pause. Reads are fluid though and can change over time. Something could happen in the future that makes me reconsider your alignment. If that were to occur and I were to point back at some of these points that gave me pause inevitably someone would go "if you had a problem with that why didn't you say something at the time?" This is why sharing my thoughts as I have them is my usual approach. Better to share too much than to share too little in my opinion.
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
I was partly looking if that read of yours was a symptom of larger distrust of our pair and you saying that you were still leaning town didn't really register with me. Guess I was fishing a bit for a more elaborate read. As I like to know what people think of how I play generally.

But your explanation is consistent and makes sense, so thanks for that.
 
S

Sawneeks

Banned
Ty4on said:
Am I a boring read? ;_;
Click to expand...

Not usually but you're just not sticking out a whole lot this time. :x

Also it was getting late and I've been working the past few days soooo

CzarTim said:
Sorry I'm not a try hard like saw. I didn't take notes
Click to expand...

; ___ ;

Sorian said:
Sawneeks is a tryhard. I'm loving it.
Click to expand...

Th-thanks, honey. </3

Ourobolus said:
I mean apart from the mountains of solid, objective evidence we have, yes
Click to expand...

I'd been meaning to ask but what is this case against Muffin/Sam? My initial read gave me a townie vibe so I'm not seeing this whole scum thing a few have brought up recently.
 
T

TsuXna

Member
Herro Herro. Checking In.

I read half of thread so far and there is some interesting stuff. I mainly found it weird that once people think of someone's behavior as a weird one, they go all defensive and use argument "in previous game i was like blah blah blah." I think i won't be caring on how you played previous games and will try to look at things from fresh perspective.

Will post more.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Natiko said:
If a lynch being 'easy' has no correlation to the candidate being or not being scum then why push that angle at all as the end of D1 approached? You clearly agreed with WAMD that Kark's lynch felt 'too easy', bolded it and everything, yet now you're saying that has no actual relevance. This only contributes to the feeling that you wanted to distance yourself from either potential lynch knowing what the result would be. I know you were busy EOD and couldn't form in-depth arguments as to why kitsune should be the one lynched, but you clearly seemed to be frowning upon the Kark train for being 'easy' which now you're saying means nothing.

I'm just not buying it.

VOTE: Ty4on
Click to expand...
It was kinda obvious what you wanted from the question.

I kinda get it; scum likes to keep their hands clear. It just feels very shallow though. You don't seem to be trying to understand what I mean by easy and the assumption that I would distance myself from potential town lynch is just weird.

I kinda don't wanna wrote this because it feels pretentious AF, but I've seen a lot of Gafia lynches. Easy D1 lynch is something that happens a lot. A player for whatever reason stands out a lot and is lynched. It's not super AI, but scum's number one goal is to not stand out too much (especially in Gafia meta) so when we have easy scum lynches it stands out to me. Name escapes me, but Night Vale had one D3 I think (I fought this lynch, but new and not very active).

The most important thing to me tho is an easy lynch sucks balls.
"Why did you vote for easy Kark?"
"Because his list made no sense and he was anti town by staying inactive"
We learn very little from voters because they have a really cheap excuse and it's the reason a lot of townies voted too so it's not AI.

That's what I mean by easy. What I want voters of an easy lynch to do is reconsider why they're voting the way they are. I default to townreading people going against the flow, but easy lynches have been scum and I've learned to reconsider them too.


Notes:
I bolded that part to show what I was responding to.
I'm not sure why you consider it AI? By that I mean standing on the sidelines and keeping hands clean. You don't play like that as scum from what I remember. Town lynches town so there's no reason not to lynch them as scum.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Edit: It was kinda obvious what you wanted from the earlier question about kitsune being an easy lynch.

Why don't I proofread my mobile posting is a mystery.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
If you find a word that doesn't make any sense it's because I write by swiping and sometimes don't catch all mistakes. Swipe typos can really mess up a sentence.
 
R

Royal_Flush

Member
Ty4on said:
Because I thought they were scum
Being easy doesn't mean not scum

Really this is the wrong question. I didn't want Xbro and Kark lynched because they had made a few decisions that made them "easy" to scum read and I didn't think they were scum or more specifically wasn't as convinced.

It's kinda wrong to call kitsune an easy lynch too. They never got a lot of votes and most gave them the benefit of the doubt. Compare that to Xbro and Kark who were ranking up votes and shade near EOD.
Click to expand...
Natiko said:
If a lynch being 'easy' has no correlation to the candidate being or not being scum then why push that angle at all as the end of D1 approached? You clearly agreed with WAMD that Kark's lynch felt 'too easy', bolded it and everything, yet now you're saying that has no actual relevance. This only contributes to the feeling that you wanted to distance yourself from either potential lynch knowing what the result would be. I know you were busy EOD and couldn't form in-depth arguments as to why kitsune should be the one lynched, but you clearly seemed to be frowning upon the Kark train for being 'easy' which now you're saying means nothing.

I'm just not buying it.

VOTE: Ty4on
Click to expand...

I think that's actually a really interesting argument.

I went through the whole exchange and was about to agree with Ty4on but then he makes the post. At first he defines "easy" as somebody who is easy to scumread. Literally two sentences later he swings back to the definition I know, namely that the person is universally agreed on to be a good lynch candidate for that day. kits fulfills the former definition, but not the latter.

Next point that stood out when I started to read about the whole argument a bit more: Ty4on was there when things got heated (postnumber is 1594 if you want to compare it with my timeline). In this post he says he thinks Orb/TWE are Town. Today he says he "wasn't as convinced" that Kark was Scum. But, like, why didn't you go for the "not so convinced" option instead of letting your townread get lynched? The kits train clearly never even left the station.

I also want to point everybody again at this Ouro post which may have been a bit tongue-in-cheek but contains some truth in my experience.
 
R

Royal_Flush

Member
Ty4on? More like Ninj4on.
Please get your rotten tomatoes from the stand over there

I think, however, that I have points in my post that you didn't answer in your ninja post..
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Royal_Flush said:
I think that's actually a really interesting argument.

I went through the whole exchange and was about to agree with Ty4on but then he makes the post. At first he defines "easy" as somebody who is easy to scumread. Literally two sentences later he swings back to the definition I know, namely that the person is universally agreed on to be a good lynch candidate for that day. kits fulfills the former definition, but not the latter.
Click to expand...
Why are those two different?
 
V

Verelios

Member
Verelios said:
Yeah, I did put Royals quotes into OG first. I don't really know how to use search posts while quoting most of them (or some of them drop) and felt it would be a lot easier to just quote and then paste into OG.

Just to clarify, I meant I was surprised there wasn't a pushback against Kark's lynch, not that I wanted a push for it. And yeah, sorry about the post. I can't edit so...yeah
Click to expand...
Response to Xbro.
Muffin1611 said:
Right now I'd like to hear from Verelios on this, if I didn't miss his answer somewhere:



You mention that Kark pushback isn't enough, but aren't doing that pushback yourself.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I'm going to be available at night since I'm kind of busy right now, so I'll get to this page later.
 
R

Royal_Flush

Member
Ty4on said:
Why are those two different?
Click to expand...

The first is "yeah, they did some scummy-ass things, I guess they could be Scum" as general opinion. The second is "I have no objections to this lynch and I don't see anybody better right now" as general opinion. I'm actually not sure my phrasing here conveys ma point. the first one is the opinion on a person. The second has to do with how much opposition a certain vote train has. Related but slightly different.
 
R

Royal_Flush

Member
Like if person A has a universal light to middle scum read on them, they're easy to scumread. But if half the players think person B did something really, really Scummy and the other half don't think it's scummy at all and you have to fight to get player A lynched over player B then player A is not an easy train. It's the amount of fighting happening over the best lynch candidate, not the overall read direction.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Royal_Flush said:
Next point that stood out when I started to read about the whole argument a bit more: Ty4on was there when things got heated (postnumber is 1594 if you want to compare it with my timeline). In this post he says he thinks Orb/TWE are Town. Today he says he "wasn't as convinced" that Kark was Scum. But, like, why didn't you go for the "not so convinced" option instead of letting your townread get lynched? The kits train clearly never even left the station.
Click to expand...

I don't quite remember my thoughts as it happened quite fast, but I expected this to be a Kark lynch and never wrote any emergency vote in another tab. As it progressed I didn't know who lead and decided to stay out of it to avoid a tie and because of the 60 second restriction.
Afterwards I felt stupid for not voting Kark as that would at least have gotten rid of a conversation topic and Worthy was quite high up on my town list. 1020 is my most comprehensive read of Worthy.

Royal_Flush said:
The first is "yeah, they did some scummy-ass things, I guess they could be Scum" as general opinion. The second is "I have no objections to this lynch and I don't see anybody better right now" as general opinion. I'm actually not sure my phrasing here conveys ma point. the first one is the opinion on a person. The second has to do with how much opposition a certain vote train has. Related but slightly different.
Click to expand...
You vote for an easy train if you have a scum read on them so, eh.

The first part encapsulates it much better. People vote for someone without really knowing why. It sounds pretentious AF again because to me it's usually "people are voting for someone and I don't know why".
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Royal_Flush said:
Anyway, why did you only answer to the less damning part of the post? Or did you already answer that previously and I just missed it?
Click to expand...

What is it? I don't think I quite get it.

Natiko said:
If a lynch being 'easy' has no correlation to the candidate being or not being scum then why push that angle at all as the end of D1 approached? You clearly agreed with WAMD that Kark's lynch felt 'too easy', bolded it and everything, yet now you're saying that has no actual relevance. This only contributes to the feeling that you wanted to distance yourself from either potential lynch knowing what the result would be. I know you were busy EOD and couldn't form in-depth arguments as to why kitsune should be the one lynched, but you clearly seemed to be frowning upon the Kark train for being 'easy' which now you're saying means nothing.
Click to expand...
I think this is it? I feel like I kinda answered it. It doesn't mean nothing it doesn't mean everything.
 
R

Royal_Flush

Member
Ty4on said:
What is it? I don't think I quite get it.
Click to expand...
I wondered why you only answered the first half of my post which focused more or less on semantics. The second half is about being absent although your reads demanded something else, which imo is a stronger argument. You answered that in your last post. Although i still don't know why you split it up.
 
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