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Tennessee law allows creationism theory in classrooms

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You've simply taken the liberty of redefining "the gap" historically as "the gap" in a modern sense. When someone argues the gap is getting narrower, what they might mean in your term is that "the number of gaps has shrank and of those that still exist, some have gotten narrower".

I only addressed the gaps in the theory of abiogenesis. They are not getting smaller via experimentation or observation. Obviously mankind's knowledge in other areas has progressed greatly. For abiogenesis, it's a not a problem inherent in the process, but a problem inherent in the hypothesis.
 

zomaha

Member
You should really read a few of my most recent post before commenting. I am not against evolution at all. I simply believe God created the universe and everything has evolved since then.

I responded to this: "I just simply do not believe in taking evolution all the way back to abiogenesis or the beginning of life and letting everything we know and see today to have evolved from that point."

Evolution takes us far, far back but obviously not to the origins of life. I assumed you discounted evolution because of that.

When you say god, you're talking about the christian god, right?
 

Log4Girlz

Member
I only addressed the gaps in the theory of abiogenesis. They are not getting smaller via experimentation or observation. Obviously mankind's knowledge in other areas has progressed greatly. For abiogenesis, it's a not a problem inherent in the process, but a problem inherent in the hypothesis.

Magic vs. non-magic, you choose to believe in magic.
 

marrec

Banned
I only addressed the gaps in the theory of abiogenesis. They are not getting smaller via experimentation or observation. Obviously mankind's knowledge in other areas has progressed greatly. For abiogenesis, it's a not a problem inherent in the process, but a problem inherent in the hypothesis.

If there is a problem in the hypothesis then that will bear out in the testing done. Science has no bias one way or another, if there is not a solution found then there will be another hypothesis presented and tested. Even after an apparent solution is found there will be alternative hypothesis' presented and tested.
 

Dunk#7

Member
Are human descendants of earlier primates ("monkeys" to use the term loosely)?

I do not believe this to be true as I believe God created both humans and monkeys so there would be no need for one to evolve from the other. I am sure that both have changed somewhat over the course of history as the environment changed and each migrated to different regions.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
I do not believe this to be true as I believe God created both humans and monkeys so there would be no need for one to evolve from the other. I am sure that both have changed somewhat over the course of history as the environment changed and each migrated to different regions.

Based on what evidence? What leads you to believe humans did not evolve from different forms? Why make us so similar to other primates anyway? Why not change animal morphology so as not to confuse us?
 

Dunk#7

Member
The word universe can have a number of similar, but subtly different definitions. Ultimately, the quest to learn the secrets of the universe is to learn everything that can be learned in this reality. To me, universe, reality...they are completely interchangeable.

So my question is, how can god be responsible for creating reality if it is apart of reality?

I really do not understand your question to be honest. Could you rephrase it?
 

zomaha

Member
I do not believe this to be true as I believe God created both humans and monkeys so there would be no need for one to evolve from the other. I am sure that both have changed somewhat over the course of history as the environment changed and each migrated to different regions.

You said you accepted evolution..."I am not against evolution at all."

But apparently you are.
 
Magic vs. non-magic, you choose to believe in magic.

I'm saying they both would be magic... based on experiments of course.

marrec said:
If there is a problem in the hypothesis then that will bear out in the testing done. Science has no bias one way or another, if there is not a solution found then there will be another hypothesis presented and tested. Even after an apparent solution is found there will be alternative hypothesis' presented and tested.

Exactly. However, the only bias here is that since it is the only possible natural solution, we will be testing and failing new hypothesis until the end of time.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
I really do not understand your question to be honest. Could you rephrase it?

Let me ask a similar but related question. Who created god?

Follow up question:

If your god is not in need of creation, then why would the universe need to be created by anything?

I'm saying they both would be magic... based on experiments of course.



Exactly. However, the only bias here is that since it is the only possible natural solution, we will be testing and failing new hypothesis until the end of time.

NADLG.jpg


So now abiogenesis is MAGIC! So scientists are clearly wizards.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I said what I meant in the statement and in the reply. Be my guest to read more into it though. Sorry I caused the misnderstanding but that happens when writing on the fly.

I have to be honest. You have an incredible reputation--one of the most unanimous reputations I have ever seen on GAF--of being disingenuous. You've got a negative tag over your reputation from some admin (I have no idea who, long before my time I'd assume). People have stated it in this thread, in response to nothing--you literally have posters spontaneously announcing that you're not worth talking to because of your reputation. marrec is making this claim about you right now, just a few posts above. Clearly your reputation distracts from conversation in the thread.

The perception is that you enter a thread, you make a claim (often of the form "[[some] liberals/atheists] are incorrect in <x> way."), and when called on your claim, you rejigger your claim and say "That's not what I meant, this is what I meant" or do not reply at all--effectively, being slippery or coy or evasive or disingenuous.

I'm not saying it's true. I'm not saying it's fair. I go out of my way as a moderator to more harshly crack down on people who post stuff about peoples reputations than I do on the people who have the reputations, because I believe that everyone deserves a chance. I don't want posters to feel like their reputation prevents them from getting a fair shake when they post. Everyone deserves to be heard.

Now, imagine that after hearing of your reputation, someone enters this thread.

What they see is:
- You make a claim of the form "some atheists are incorrect in <x> way"
- I respond to it asking you something to substantiate it.
- You reply that I have misinterpreted your claim and restate it in a different way
- I apologize for reading your claim incorrectly, do my best to assess it again, and I ask if I have read your claim correctly this time. I go out of my way to make sure I am reading your claim correctly BEFORE I actually discuss whether or not I agree with it.
- You reply saying "I said what I meant" and "Be my guest to read more into it thought", essentially making it impossible for me to discuss your claim with you because you won't confirm whether or not I understand the claim to begin with.

Imagine yourself as this third party reader who has never seen you post, but knows you by reputation. And they enter this thread. Do you think they'd be likely to agree with the description I posted above of your reputation, or disagree with it, based on how you've presented yourself?

I assume you do not intend to come off as disingenuous or coy or evasive or trolling. So it's obviously a case where people aren't fairly perceiving the real you. That's OK, it happens to me sometimes, and it can be really frustrating. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here--why do you think people feel you are like this? How do you think people should read your posts differently to come to a different conclusion about you? What kind of tone and what kind of words should people use when they're responding with you to get what they consider is a more satisfying discussion out of things?

You don't have to respond to this if you don't want to. I just feel like I'm doing my best to give you the benefit of the doubt and you're really not helping me and I have no idea what else I can possibly do at this point to try to empathize with your perspective in conversations or when trying to moderate a thread.
 

marrec

Banned
Exactly. However, the only bias here is that since it is the only possible natural solution, we will be testing and failing new hypothesis until the end of time.

Which is your bias. Since we cannot test the magical solution of a God creating life, we are left to test based on our knowledge of science explaining everything else and we are left to, very logically, assume that a natural solution will be found.
 

Dunk#7

Member
Based on what evidence? What leads you to believe humans did not evolve from different forms? Why make us so similar to other primates anyway? Why not change animal morphology so as not to confuse us?

Similar in what way? Physically?

We are very different than every other species on the face of the planet. There is no other animal that is capable of free thought and creating something new to suit its needs.

What we are doing right now on this message board sets us apart from every other living thing on the planet.
 

dacuk

Member
As a theory, it could be taught wherever.
If it is the ONLY one being taught, that's where the problems start.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I do not believe this to be true as I believe God created both humans and monkeys so there would be no need for one to evolve from the other. I am sure that both have changed somewhat over the course of history as the environment changed and each migrated to different regions.

Okay. You may have accidentally mischaracterized your position originally. It originally came off that you believed in/recognized evolution (natural selection, speciation) but not abiogenesis (life coming from non-life). In fact, the accurate way to describe your position is that you do not believe in/recognize evolution. I'm not saying this to argue with you or tell you you're right or wrong, I'm saying what you're talking about is not evolution.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Similar in what way? Physically?

We are very different than every other species on the face of the planet. There is no other animal that is capable of free thought and creating something new to suit its needs.

What we are doing right now on this message board sets us apart from every other living thing on the planet.

Yet chimpanzees are 98% similar. Not much of a leap to achieve humanity, given the age of the earth and the process of evolution. They have the same ears, the same hands, the same eyes, the same teeth practically. Just a few changes here and there and voila, humans. Its because we share a distant (relatively recent geologically speaking) cousin. Why else would we share

ANY

morphological traits with primates? Why? Why have monkeys or apes at all? Too similar for no good reason. Though, in such situations others may answer "god works in mysterious ways".

Okay. You may have accidentally mischaracterized your position originally. It originally came off that you believed in/recognized evolution (natural selection, speciation) but not abiogenesis (life coming from non-life). In fact, the accurate way to describe your position is that you do not believe in/recognize evolution. I'm not saying this to argue with you or tell you you're right or wrong, I'm saying what you're talking about is not evolution.

Yeah, pretty much this.
 

Dunk#7

Member
Let me ask a similar but related question. Who created god?

Follow up question:

If your god is not in need of creation, then why would the universe need to be created by anything?

As I mentioned before Christianity is a matter of faith. You take the fact that God has always existed outside of time on faith.

How is the belief that God always existed and created everything logically any different than everything came from nothing?
 
We are very different than every other species on the face of the planet. There is no other animal that is capable of free thought and creating something new to suit its needs.

Careful with this. Other animals (such as corvids) are capable of tool use and manufacturing. Nothing as complex as a spaceship of course, but they can "create something new to suit its needs."

And evolution doesn't mean that unique features wont develop in a species. Humans having unique features isn't evidence against them sharing a common ancestor with other primates. Evolution allows for specialization.
 

Dunk#7

Member
Okay. You may have accidentally mischaracterized your position originally. It originally came off that you believed in/recognized evolution (natural selection, speciation) but not abiogenesis (life coming from non-life). In fact, the accurate way to describe your position is that you do not believe in/recognize evolution. I'm not saying this to argue with you or tell you you're right or wrong, I'm saying what you're talking about is not evolution.

Ok I am sorry for the confusion.

I believe that everything is currently capable of adapting and changing to suit its surroundings, but I believe that God created everything in the beginning. How should I classify that?


EDIT: Heading to lunch...I will have to catch up when I get back. Enjoying the discussion.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
As I mentioned before Christianity is a matter of faith. You take the fact that God has always existed outside of time on faith.

How is the belief that God always existed and created everything logically any different than everything came from nothing?

One assumes an infinitely complex being which has no need of less complex entities or reality.

Why create a universe?

There is no answer to that question from my viewpoint because there is no god. Humans created a god and the true, subconscious answer to "Why create the universe" is that people want to feel important on the cosmological scale. They never want to die...they want to live on forever in heaven and be important to some "all loving" being. It has no basis on anything other than wishful thinking and superstition. You are entitled to your faith, I do not judge you...I judge the very nature of faith in the supernatural generally speaking every day in my life.
 
Ok I am sorry for the confusion.

I believe that everything is currently capable of adapting and changing to suit its surroundings, but I believe that God created everything in the beginning. How should I classify that?

So do you believe that every species currently present on Earth was exactly like that in the past, but can change in the future?
 
As I mentioned before Christianity is a matter of faith. You take the fact that God has always existed outside of time on faith.

How is the belief that God always existed and created everything logically any different than everything came from nothing?

The theory of evolution, and the theory of the big bang, do not exist in a vacuum. They are based on testable evidence and formal experiments conducted within a strict, rational methodology. It is an inherently rational process.

How is faith like that? One of the most important aspects of faith is that it's just...there, right? You have it or you don't. If you are trying to logic your way into feeling more comfortable with your faith then you probably don't have it to begin with. Faith is an inherently irrational process...not that that's bad! But it is not logically comparable to scientific theory.

If a religion is pushing its ideas into a scientific environment it is fundamentally broken, because it is no longer purporting to be based on faith at all. It places an excessive amount of importance on physical proof, when in fact it is the essence of faith that no physical proof is needed to believe. It is not needed as a counter to evolution; the concepts of creationism and evolution are constantly being pushed into conflict when they should not be discussed within the same sphere of thought at all.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Ok I am sorry for the confusion.

I believe that everything is currently capable of adapting and changing to suit its surroundings, but I believe that God created everything in the beginning. How should I classify that?

Provided you believe that species were created as they are and that no process of speciation occurs, you are simply a creationist. Some creationists misuse the term "micro-evolution" to describe what you're talking about when you say "adaptation". You can see a background of this here. So based on what you've said so far, you would classify just as a creationist.

Again, not saying right/wrong, just trying to make sure you describe yourself the right way to others.
 

Lesath

Member
Ok I am sorry for the confusion.

I believe that everything is currently capable of adapting and changing to suit its surroundings, but I believe that God created everything in the beginning. How should I classify that?


EDIT: Heading to lunch...I will have to catch up when I get back. Enjoying the discussion.

Your answer is probably too non-specific still for them to understand your position.

Do you believe life as we know it today can be traced back to a common ancestor?
 
As I mentioned before Christianity is a matter of faith. You take the fact that God has always existed outside of time on faith.

How is the belief that God always existed and created everything logically any different than everything came from nothing?

Why is it always God or nothing? Does "we do not yet know how life or the universe began" not register as a response in your mind? Science cannot invent reasons for the origin of everything and then say those reasons exist outside of reality.....Do know realize how ridiculous that sounds? How can you even say such a thing with a straight face?
 

marrec

Banned
And an even better response from Steven Novella:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/tennessee-monkey-bill-update/

Steven Novella said:
The law is crafted to provide cover for science teachers who want to introduce creationist pseudoscience into their public school science classrooms. Now they can claim that they are just following the law, by teaching the &#8220;weaknesses&#8221; of a &#8220;controversial&#8221; topic, evolution, specifically named in the law.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like a philosophy major who has only had Bio 101 and has never been in a lab. Science is very specific. It requires hypotheses that can be falsified upon experimentation. There is no deduction. It it not even technically induction because it never makes statements of fact.
First of all, I am actually a Philosophy of Science soon-to-be PhD student, so while I'm not a scientist I am very interested in science. I don't see how that's relevant, though.

Secondly, I don't think that the way you've characterised science is a very good one. It's a Popperian account of science: a particular account that was proposed in the 1930s but which has subsequently been accepted to be a more-or-less inaccurate view of the methodology of science.

It's a self-image that scientists like to apply to themselves, though. It has certainly proven itself to be a very popular account of science among scientists, even though both historically and contemporarily it is not how science has been practised, on the whole.

Also, some of those people you mentioned aren't even scientists. Genuine scientific fields didn't exist at the time of Galileo - he's more appropriately an astronomer or a mathematician. Newton was clearly a mathematician. Darwin was a naturalist whose hypothesis lead to the development of the science of Biology.

On what grounds do you not believe Galileo's work to be science? On what grounds Newton's? Darwin? All three put forward predictively successful hypotheses about the world and provided the frameworks of research programmes.

Philosophy certainly influences the way scientists think about Reality and Life in a more global sense, and science certainly helps philosophers form more realistic premises, but because their methods and goals are different they are different subjects and should be treated as such.

Perhaps I should give you an example of what I mean when I say that science and philosophy are continuous. I mean the debates between Leibniz and Newton about whether space is relational or substantial, which extended through Mach and informed Einstein heavily when creating General Relativity. I mean the debates between Einstein and Bohr about Quantum Mechanics. I mean attempts from Boltzmann to understand the arrow of time and entropy. I mean the underpinnings of Generative Linguistics and the programmatic aspirations of that theory (I think Chomsky is one of the few working scientists who takes this relationship seriously). All of these are at a kind of meeting point between science and philosophy.

I'm not suggesting that in some sense philosophy is a replacement for science or it can give us similar kinds of knowledge. What I am saying is that certain kinds of philosophical topics inform and are informed by science. Einstein, for example, read a lot of philosophy in his 20s (Mach and Poincaré in particular) and was emphatic in his insistence that it had greatly influenced his thinking about space and time which led to the special and general theories of relativity. [edit]I should point out here: both Mach and Poincaré were physicists. They both also wrote philosophical works about physics and science.

Philosophy is very broad, and you shouldn't pigeonhole it by assuming it's about certain problems or certain topics.
 

Dunk#7

Member
Provided you believe that species were created as they are and that no process of speciation occurs, you are simply a creationist. Some creationists misuse the term "micro-evolution" to describe what you're talking about when you say "adaptation". You can see a background of this here. So based on what you've said so far, you would classify just as a creationist.

Again, not saying right/wrong, just trying to make sure you describe yourself the right way to others.

I feel I am a little different in the fact that I feel speciation could occur after God created all the original species.

The only thing that separates me is the fact that I believe all the traits of evolution began after God created the universe as described in the Bible. I believe that everything was free to change and adapt from that point on.


Why is it always God or nothing? Does "we do not yet know how life or the universe began" not register as a response in your mind? Science cannot invent reasons for the origin of everything and then say those reasons exist outside of reality.....Do know realize how ridiculous that sounds? How can you even say such a thing with a straight face?

What other explanation could there possibly be? Either a being always existed and created the universe or it had to come from nothing. Even if science does not know how the universe began they are limited on possibilities. Everything spawned from something, but if you keep asking the question "where did that come from?" you eventually arrive at nothing.

Please describe to me a possibility for the creation of the universe that does not involve creation or getting something from nothing. This does not even have to be a remotely valid reason, but I want you to bring up another possibility.
 
I feel I am a little different in the fact that I feel speciation could occur after God created all the original species.

Going to ask this again. Do you think that all currently existing species are part of those original species?

For example. Do you think current modern day horses are the same ones created by god? Or are horses today far different than ones that existed at the time of "original creation"?
 

Demon Ice

Banned
Wow, I go to sleep and I wake up to read people think that abiogenesis is an OPINION?!

wtfamireading.jpg


Miller - Urey experiment

Educate yourselves!!! Or don't, since your god, as Dawkins put it, is a god of the gaps, and depends on gaps in human knowledge to stay relevant. Hence the desperate clinging to willful ignorance and the "shroud of mystery" in this thread by people like JGS and Sanky.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
[long reply]

I do agree with you, actually. Laudan's view might be rather too academic and not grounded enough in the reality that the people who are trying to get creationism taught in schools are the dogmatic types who aren't presenting it as a scientific theory worthy of debate but rather as a set of dogmatic beliefs. In fact from what I remember one of the replies in the journal was to the effect that creationists aren't interested in teaching creation-as-science and that therefore we have to take the (perhaps not entirely intellectually satisfying) course of declaring creation science to be not-science in order to stop them from getting a foothold. I think that's a pretty reasonable stance. Perhaps Laudan is being charitable to creation scientists where he should not be.

I think that there's something to be said about the ways theories are changed to confront new evidence over time. I'm afraid it's not enough of my own field of interest to know whether there's equivalent situations in other theories for comparison, but it seems to me that you do have an interesting way of framing the reaction. Have you read Feyerabend's 'Against Method'? If you're interested in scientific method you might find it interesting (though I'm pretty sure in some bits he's straight trollin').
 

Davidion

Member
What other explanation could there possibly be? Either a being always existed and created the universe or it had to come from nothing. Even if science does not know how the universe began they are limited on possibilities. Everything spawned from something, but if you keep asking the question "where did that come from?" you eventually arrive at nothing.

Please describe to me a possibility for the creation of the universe that does not involve creation or getting something from nothing. This does not even have to be a remotely valid reason, but I want you to bring up another possibility.

Sure, infinite growth/regress/cyclic universe is one.

I won't advocate any of these since my understanding of the science and philosophy behind them is laymen's grade at best, but their premise is certainly no more amateur than the god of the gaps argument, which as far as I'm concerned doesn't even begin to have rational legs to stand on.
 

Dunk#7

Member
Going to ask this again. Do you think that all currently existing species are part of those original species?

For example. Do you think current modern day horses are the same ones created by god? Or are horses today far different than ones that existed at the time of "original creation"?

I am a little confused by the question, but I think the following description will answer your inquiry...

I believe that if God did not create horses that it would be possible for them to exist today through the evolutionary process. I believe that new species outside of the ones God originally created are possible.

However I would like to say that I believe humans are special and separate from my line of thinking above. I do not think that anything has ever evolved into a human and I do not think that humans have ever evolved into some other species
 

Orayn

Member
I feel I am a little different in the fact that I feel speciation could occur after God created all the original species.

Why tie God's hands? Couldn't he have just created a few dozen cells and let things progress as a part of his plan?

The only thing that separates me is the fact that I believe all the traits of evolution began after God created the universe as described in the Bible. I believe that everything was free to change and adapt from that point on.

This is only a problem for you because you have a blunt, literalist view of the Bible that's completely lacking in nuance.

What other explanation could there possibly be? Either a being always existed and created the universe or it had to come from nothing.

This is a false dichotomy because there are plenty of other possibilities. What if "something" always existed, but bore no resemblance to a god?

Even if science does not know how the universe began they are limited on possibilities. Everything spawned from something, but if you keep asking the question "where did that come from?" you eventually arrive at nothing.

A better understanding of how time works will obviate the need for an ultimate beginning.

Please describe to me a possibility for the creation of the universe that does not involve creation or getting something from nothing. This does not even have to be a remotely valid reason, but I want you to bring up another possibility.

How about the "Big Bounce?" The universe exists in an incredibly hot, dense state where the laws of physics as we know them cease to exist. Something about this state is unstable, causing it to decay and eventually expand into the universe as we know it. The expansion slows down and eventually reverses, causing the universe to collapse back into a state like the one that spawned it.

Before you ask where that hot, dense wad of spacetime came from, please understand that there is no "before" or "after" when talking about singularities. Time is an emergent phenomenon of a less dense, cooler universe and is not applicable under the "initial" conditions.
 
"Choice is good!"

"Unless it's the choice I like!"

I say the more the better. I learned both in school. Better off for it in my opinion.
 
I am a little confused by the question, but I think the following description will answer your inquiry...

I believe that if God did not create horses that it would be possible for them to exist today through the evolutionary process. I believe that new species outside of the ones God originally created are possible.

However I would like to say that I believe humans are special and separate from my line of thinking above. I do not think that anything has ever evolved into a human and I do not think that humans have ever evolved into some other species

But why do you think this?

Why are humans separate? Yes, we possess amazing cognitive abilities no other species possesses, but unique attributes can arise through evolutionary processes.


"Choice is good!"

"Unless it's the choice I like!"

I say the more the better. I learned both in school. Better off for it in my opinion.

America already ranks poorly in science compared to other developed nations. More isn't better when "more" means covering things that aren't legitimate scientific theories. That isn't me being close minded by the way. Creationism isn't scientific because it contains no testable hypotheses.

Why should science class dedicate time to creationism instead of actual science? Should science classes start teaching tap dancing?
 

Orayn

Member
"Choice is good!"

"Unless it's the choice I like!"

I say the more the better. I learned both in school. Better off for it in my opinion.

This would be fine if we were talking about having these discussions in the context comparative religion classes. However, legislation like this is almost always aimed squarely at science teachers.
 
This would be fine if we were talking about having these discussions in the context comparative religion classes. However, legislation like this is almost always aimed squarely at science teachers.

I'd just like to not only agree with this post but emphasize that discussing religious ideas in a scientific context is just as bad for religion as it is for scientific progress, if not worse. To suggest that religious concepts should not be dealt with in a concrete, rational progress is not necessarily to say that those ideas are "bad" or "worse," only that they do not make sense within the framework of a scientifically-minded discussion or environment.
 

zomaha

Member
I'd just like to not only agree with this post but emphasize that discussing religious ideas in a scientific context is just as bad for religion as it is for scientific progress, if not worse. To suggest that religious concepts should not be dealt with in a concrete, rational progress is not necessarily to say that those ideas are "bad" or "worse," only that they do not make sense within the framework of a scientifically-minded discussion or environment.

Because religious ideas were never meant to be compatible with science.
 

Korey

Member
I am a little confused by the question, but I think the following description will answer your inquiry...

I believe that if God did not create horses that it would be possible for them to exist today through the evolutionary process. I believe that new species outside of the ones God originally created are possible.

However I would like to say that I believe humans are special and separate from my line of thinking above. I do not think that anything has ever evolved into a human and I do not think that humans have ever evolved into some other species

How old do you think the earth is, just for our reference?
 

ZAK

Member
It seems to me that what you're saying is basically that science cannot tell us why God is a better answer to difficult questions than an unprovable, untestable, vague scientific theory. I would agree, and I think that's exactly why theology and philosophy are so important, because they attempt to substantiate answers to some of those questions in a way that science never could.

Whether or not what you'll see will convince you is another matter entirely, of course. Just as an example I would say that I probably value historical evidence related to the life of Jesus much more highly than the typical atheist (which is another debate entirely).
I wouldn't say I used science in my analysis of the possible answers to certain hard questions; I'd say I used rationality. They're similar. If that's what you mean, then yes, we seem to agree that rationality cannot tell us why God is a better answer. Furthermore, theology (and philosophy I guess?) attempt to irrationally (meaning, based on no evidence) promote certain answers.

I maintain that, contrary to the claim, this doesn't seem like a useful service at all. No evidence = no correlation with reality = chance odds of being correct. I like to believe correct things, but maybe we have different ideas of what "correct" means or what evidence is.
 
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