Nocturnowl
Member
Yes, your post was awesome; would you care for making a similar writeup (or even me using that) for those that eventually end in the top and that you've played?
By all means, you can use the summaries if needed.
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NeoGAF's Top/Essential Indie Games
- Thread starter Weltall Zero
- Start date
By all means, you can use the summaries if needed.
My gripe is that everyone lists games that already received strong word of mouth, ie. everybody knows about them anyway. I would prefer if the list was built by people who played hundreds of indie games and actually do have the necessary knowledge to recommend the best selection to other people.
Nearly every other entry of the essential RPG list is a Final Fantasy game, I don't need to tell you that if you want to experience various facets of the RPG genre in a minimal timespan you do not need to play that many Final Fantasy games, ie. Neogaf's list does a very poor job of narrowing selection to the essential title. Here the variety is less of an issue, the problem is most people voting have played maybe 15-20 indie games to date, most of them the same.
Yep, I fully agree with that as I said earlier. But I dont think you can do that in a broad community environment that isnt specifically tailored to Indie Games. We'll probably also do a yearly tally in the Indie Games threads I linked earlier, which will be done by people who actually played those smaller games. Thats probably going to be a better representation of what you are looking for. I am still trying to create a small community around these games, so feel free to join us!
Games like Papers,Please will never have a chance in these big lists, but it will very likely land in the top 5 for next months Indie thread
Three blurbs for games I feel strongly about that didnt get any explanation yet:
Dwarf Fortress
The combat model uses skills, body parts, individual tissues, material properties, aimed attacks, wrestling, one-time opportunities, charging and dodging between squares, bleeding, pain, nausea, various poison effects and much more.
Over two hundred rock and mineral types are incorporated into the world, placed in their proper geological environments. A dynamic weather model tracks wind, humidity and air masses to create fronts, clouds, rain storms and blizzards.
And way, way more. All that created by a single person.This game is the epitome of what Indie Games are about, offering an experience no 'AAA' game, and I dont think any Indie Game either, will ever accomplish. Thats probably one of the view games that people should vote for even if they never played it. Its an essential game for the Indie Game scene as a whole, inspiring thousands of developers, treading new grounds with every step and breaking down the barrier of what people perceive they may be able to accomplish.
Frozen Synapse
SpaceChem
Dwarf Fortress
This is a game that should be far, far up on every "Essential" Indie List and one reason why I think I prefer lists made by a few people discussing the topic instead of a whole community. It wasnt the first Sim game, nor was it the first roguelike, but the sheer depth behind the systems is so awe-inspiring that this will probably be a game that will stay relevant forever, or at least long outlast almost any other Indie Game (with the exception of maybe Minecraft). Its a game that released 7 years ago, and there is still no end in sight for planned updates, which add more layers to a game that already is the most complex and ambitious game we have to date. Just two examples:
The combat model uses skills, body parts, individual tissues, material properties, aimed attacks, wrestling, one-time opportunities, charging and dodging between squares, bleeding, pain, nausea, various poison effects and much more.
Over two hundred rock and mineral types are incorporated into the world, placed in their proper geological environments. A dynamic weather model tracks wind, humidity and air masses to create fronts, clouds, rain storms and blizzards.
And way, way more. All that created by a single person.This game is the epitome of what Indie Games are about, offering an experience no 'AAA' game, and I dont think any Indie Game either, will ever accomplish. Thats probably one of the view games that people should vote for even if they never played it. Its an essential game for the Indie Game scene as a whole, inspiring thousands of developers, treading new grounds with every step and breaking down the barrier of what people perceive they may be able to accomplish.
Frozen Synapse
While this isnt on the same influential level as Dwarf Fortress, it still deserves to be on this list due to being a game that excels at one aspect - Multiplayer. What this game does is heads above any other game I ever encountered. Everything surrounding the MP in this game is just so damn flexible and perfect. This game perfected "playing" your opponent instead of the game on an insane level. While that is something traditional RTS can offer as well, the scaling down to a micro level and immediately allowing for psychological trickeries from start to finish was a masterstroke. This game also proved that you dont need to be a multimillion dollar company to offer a perfect MP experience. Diverse modes, the ability to watch EVERY match ever played from within the game, stats,almost perfect match searching system, wide variety of custom match options.
SpaceChem
This is a game on my personal top 10, but I can see why it wouldnt land very far up on a general list. I think the game spoke to a very specific audience, which didnt do it any favours sales-wise. However, it is probably the best game-y representation of how programming works on a very basic level, which is something I want to applaud it for. The challenge, challenge packs and especially sheer endless possibility of how people are able to solve levels got me to wonder more than only once. Its a game about creativity and practicability on a very, very refined level.
Weltall Zero
Member
While I understand your point, that is not what I want to do. I don't want "indie experts" dictating what newbies should play, because their (our?) tastes are already very skewed towards stuff that is probably not going to appeal to a lot of people; and also, frankly, because that's a bit elitist. Popular, accesible games with strong word of mouth is exactly what I want; because that "strong word of mouth" is not nearly as visible outside our community.
There is another issue, and that is that indie experts tend to get jaded on the most exposed games, much like genre experts tend to love and recommend the obscure gems sooner than the most visible franchises. We do that even when the more visible games are probably and objectively better, more so for a newbie. I mean, I'm sick of Final Fantasy, but I still consider FF6 one of the best RPGs of all time. I'm sick as hell of World of Warcraft, but it's hard to deny it's one of the best MMOs of all time.
I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but I kindly ask that you don't see this for what it isn't, or try to turn it into such. This is NOT a thread to expose "hidden gems"; there is already an awesome thread for that, actually! It's also linked in the OP... and the last post in there is mine, from February; go bump it up with your choices!
Perhaps when the tally is done people will understand the purpose of this thread. I understand that seeing Super Meat Boy repeated in each post gets old fast, but when the results are tallied, it's going to take only one line, with lots of (also) amazing games after it. There's also the fact that, sure, SMB or FTL had a lot of exposition, but how many people out there might have either missed it, or thought it was mostly hype? How many might have skipped them simply of distrust over gaming media? Is it not worth it to have them on the top ten or twenty to make people know that, yes, these games are as amazing as they seem? (I realize you might dislike SMB or FTL or think they're overrated; replace with your favorite, "well-known" indie game).
And if I've failed to convince you, and you still think another kind of thread is more warranted, by all means, create one! But, um, if it's going to be a voting thread, don't make the embarrasing mistake I made; ask a mod first...
SpaceChem (the epitome of indie awesomeness) has been voted for in no less than six different posts/lists, including my own. This should land it top 50, methinks, possibly top 30; that is awesome considering how niche it is, indeed. Have a little faith in your fellow GAfers.
Edit: I just re-read SalsaShark's thread for the hell of it; it's amazing how many of the games that I now love, I learned about thanks to it. It was one of the first threads I bookmarked when I began lurking NeoGAF in earnest. Seriously, it's amazing, and a crime that it's fallen so far into obscurity.
I am as much of a fan of indies as anyone else, but just in my opinion Indie Games should not just be limited to Steam or PC games...the spirit of supporting indie is the important thing, no matter what platform it is.
There are cool games on iOS and Xbox, PSN as well...I would have a hard time putting 10 PC games over iOS/Xbox/PSN games if you really want to rank everything together. Both Journey/Flower basically are life changing level games.
If you mean indie as meaning garage game (made by no more than a handful of people) even more I would think about some iOS games like Spelltower and Ridiculous Fishing that are completely amazing games, but there are also some indie XBLA games like Dust that are made by a single person or a couple people.
I can at least rank my current top 10 garage level PC games for the sake of putting some variety in this thread:
1. Jamestown (Steam)
2. Cave Story (PC/Steam)
3. Escape Goat (Steam Greenlight, already on Desura)
4. Defenders Quest (Steam)
5. Critter Crunch (Steam)
6. Frog Fractions (Web lol)
7. A Valley without Wind (Steam)
8. Sequence (Steam)
9. Serious Sam Double D (Steam)
10. Hotline Miami (Steam)
There are cool games on iOS and Xbox, PSN as well...I would have a hard time putting 10 PC games over iOS/Xbox/PSN games if you really want to rank everything together. Both Journey/Flower basically are life changing level games.
If you mean indie as meaning garage game (made by no more than a handful of people) even more I would think about some iOS games like Spelltower and Ridiculous Fishing that are completely amazing games, but there are also some indie XBLA games like Dust that are made by a single person or a couple people.
I can at least rank my current top 10 garage level PC games for the sake of putting some variety in this thread:
1. Jamestown (Steam)
2. Cave Story (PC/Steam)
3. Escape Goat (Steam Greenlight, already on Desura)
4. Defenders Quest (Steam)
5. Critter Crunch (Steam)
6. Frog Fractions (Web lol)
7. A Valley without Wind (Steam)
8. Sequence (Steam)
9. Serious Sam Double D (Steam)
10. Hotline Miami (Steam)
Weltall Zero
Member
Wait, what? By no means should indie games limited to PC, and if I ever gave that impression, it was the furthest thing from my intention! Do you think I should make it clear in the OP that XBLA, XBLIG, PSN, Wiiware, etc. games are allowed too? (as long as they are indie games, of course)?
Dust An Elysian Tail is 100% valid for this thread's intent; heck, I might have included it too if I owned it (waiting for the PC version, as I want to phase out my 360). Do include it in your list by all means.
Edit: added a small paragraph to the OP addressing and clarifying this point.
Not only that, you can play a pretty feature-rich version for free:
http://games.adultswim.com/super-house-of-dead-ninjas-action-online-game.html
I've played quite a bit of it and will probably pick the Steam version down the line.
You know what, you're right. I dislike Diablo-likes (including all Diablo games) but I've heard nothing but praise for that game, and it's definitely indie; it's weird that nobody has mentioned it yet. If any fan of this game (or console games, from the above) wants to edit their lists, go ahead!
Also. I wanted to repeat a couple that were already mentioned if someone's doing a tally:
Edited for tallying purposes:
Spelunky
Desktop Dungeons
Dustforce
Cavenaut
Tower Climb
Probabiltity 0
Give Up Robot 2
An Untitled Story.
Deepak Fights Robots
Runman:ROTW
Definitely not representative of my top 10 [i[best[/i], but I didn't really want to take the time to dig through my hard drive or listing obvious ones like Braid, FTL, Super Meat Boy, etc (Although I will always and forever mention Spelunky in these threads!). Oh, but people need to play Icarus Proudbottom: Curse of the Chocolate Fountain if they like stupid humour.
Edited for tallying purposes:
Spelunky
Desktop Dungeons
Dustforce
Cavenaut
Tower Climb
Probabiltity 0
Give Up Robot 2
An Untitled Story.
Deepak Fights Robots
Runman:ROTW
Definitely not representative of my top 10 [i[best[/i], but I didn't really want to take the time to dig through my hard drive or listing obvious ones like Braid, FTL, Super Meat Boy, etc (Although I will always and forever mention Spelunky in these threads!). Oh, but people need to play Icarus Proudbottom: Curse of the Chocolate Fountain if they like stupid humour.
Phonomezer
Banned
Cave Story+ and Legend of Grimrock are the ones I have played most recently, so those! Highly recommended.
The list could change, because I didn't think about it too much while making it. These are spontaneous, first thought that comes to my mind types.
Braid
Fatale
Every Day the Same Dream
Trauma
Amnesia
Slave of God
Thirty Flights of Loving
Dear Esther
Feed the Head
Small Worlds
I would love to add Journey and Noby Noby Boy, but they're not independent, so I had to exclude them.
Haven't played Kentucky Route Zero, but I've got a good feeling about it.
And there're a lot of potential candidates for upcoming releases, like:
The Witness
Everybody's Gone to Rapture
Memory of a Broken Dimension
Mirage
Fract
The Stanley Parable
and probably more I forgot.
Braid
Fatale
Every Day the Same Dream
Trauma
Amnesia
Slave of God
Thirty Flights of Loving
Dear Esther
Feed the Head
Small Worlds
I would love to add Journey and Noby Noby Boy, but they're not independent, so I had to exclude them.
Haven't played Kentucky Route Zero, but I've got a good feeling about it.
And there're a lot of potential candidates for upcoming releases, like:
The Witness
Everybody's Gone to Rapture
Memory of a Broken Dimension
Mirage
Fract
The Stanley Parable
and probably more I forgot.
HolyBaikal
Banned
'Top ten', huh?
- Touhou Project: The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
- Cave Story
- Terraria
- Minecraft
- Recettear
- La Mulana
- Braid
- Super Meat Boy
- Bit.Trip
- Yume Nikki
Another 10:
- Journey
- Limbo
- Analogue: A Hate Story
- Spelunky
- Dwarf Fortress
- World of Goo
- To The Moon
- The Binding of Isaac
- VVVVVV
- Fez
Yeah, everyone has already heard of Minecraft. It's still an "essential indie game". By the way, these are not chosen by what my favourites are. Or all twenty spots would be taken up by Touhou games. These are chosen largely for noteworthy-ness.
- Touhou Project: The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
- Cave Story
- Terraria
- Minecraft
- Recettear
- La Mulana
- Braid
- Super Meat Boy
- Bit.Trip
- Yume Nikki
Another 10:
- Journey
- Limbo
- Analogue: A Hate Story
- Spelunky
- Dwarf Fortress
- World of Goo
- To The Moon
- The Binding of Isaac
- VVVVVV
- Fez
Yeah, everyone has already heard of Minecraft. It's still an "essential indie game". By the way, these are not chosen by what my favourites are. Or all twenty spots would be taken up by Touhou games. These are chosen largely for noteworthy-ness.
A Huge Battleship
Member
Here's one for the poster who complained about people's lists being similar. In no particular order:
Top 10
1. The Witch's House (freeware)
What this means for you, the player, is that you'll be spending 90 minutes or so doing everything in your power to avoid being crushed, shot, drowned, eaten, impaled, or meeting your untimely demise in any of the other abhorrent ways the house has prepared for you.
At its bloody heart, the game is a relatively straightforward top-down affair that has you solving puzzles in order to progress towards the ending(s). What makes it stand out from other similar games is the tension/fear that the titular house instils in you through both its atmosphere and its wide variety of methods of bringing your life to a premature end. It wants to make you feel like you are only a few moments away from the 'Game Over' screen at all times. Which, in all fairness, isn't that far from the truth. As the figurative nail in the player's mental coffin,
Currently my favourite game I've played in 2013.
2. Rosenkreuzstilette Freudenstachel
. The boss fights were, on the whole, well-designed and hugely enjoyable, and the soundtrack deserves a special mention as my favourite from 2012. It's predecessor, Rosenkreuzstilette, would've also made this list if I wasn't angling for variety. I can't imagine anyone else voting for either anyway.
3. The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile
4. Touhou 11: Subterranean Animism
5. Grief Syndrome
6. Hitogata Happa
7. Mystical Chain
8. Genetos (freeware)
9. MegaMari
10. Touhou 10.5: Scarlet Weather Rhapsody / 12.3: Unthinkable Natural Law
Honourable mentions
* Irisu Syndrome (freeware)
* Takkoman
* Trouble Witches Neo
* Katawa Shoujo (freeware)
* Mad Father (freeware)
.
---
Some of the above descriptions were shamelessly regurgitated from previous posts I've made.
I'll be playing The Path in the very near future, so this list may well be subject to change.
Top 10
1. The Witch's House (freeware)
A young girl named Viola awakens to find herself trapped within the grounds of a mysterious house. With no other means of escape, she is forced to venture into the foreboding building, where she must evade murderous spirits and solve the house's riddles if she is to escape the wrath of the witch who dwells within.
What this means for you, the player, is that you'll be spending 90 minutes or so doing everything in your power to avoid being crushed, shot, drowned, eaten, impaled, or meeting your untimely demise in any of the other abhorrent ways the house has prepared for you.
At its bloody heart, the game is a relatively straightforward top-down affair that has you solving puzzles in order to progress towards the ending(s). What makes it stand out from other similar games is the tension/fear that the titular house instils in you through both its atmosphere and its wide variety of methods of bringing your life to a premature end. It wants to make you feel like you are only a few moments away from the 'Game Over' screen at all times. Which, in all fairness, isn't that far from the truth. As the figurative nail in the player's mental coffin,
when you do eventually escape the house, you discover that...
Currently my favourite game I've played in 2013.
2. Rosenkreuzstilette Freudenstachel
The product of 4 years of quasi developmental hell by erka:es, and the best classic Mega Man game ever made (until he churns out his his next one). Each level was a delight to play with excellent layouts and gimmicks
many of which were probably 'inspired' by Mega Man games that I've never touched
3. The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile
An XBLA release by Ska Studios, and one of the best 2D beat 'em ups I've had the fortune to play. The first thing that strikes you about the game is the unusual, oppressive, but hugely effective atmosphere and art direction. Combat is frantic but rewarding, with some fantastic boss battles that require you to fully utilise the techniques at your disposal. The game also has some of my favourite weapons I've come across in the genre, with an oversized syringe and pair of scissors being the highlights.
4. Touhou 11: Subterranean Animism
Many of the 'official' Touhou shmups could've featured on this list, but for the sake of variety I narrowed it down to my sole favourite. The opening stages of SA are respectable, but its real strength lies in the second half; no entry in the series currently has a more entertaining stages 4-6. Inspirational danmaku, excellent aesthetics and an explosive finale that has to be the most adrenaline pumping battle in the core games thus far. A solid argument could be made for Perfect Cherry Blossom being the better game, but the post Mountain of Faith movement/controls are what tilt the balance towards SA for me. Also not having to go above the 'point of collection' all the time is an absolute blessing.
5. Grief Syndrome
A 2D side-scrolling beat 'em up based on the Madoka Magica universe, with 6 playable characters and a decent assortment of moves. The masochistic charm of the game lies in the player's ability to set a difficulty 'Lap' on a New Game+, which proportionately increases the strength and defence of the enemies/bosses. By the time I cleared Lap 500 I was averaging a 2 hour playthrough with no continues or save points, rendering me a nervous, gibbering wreck during the final stage (an engaging feeling very much missing from many modern games). Even now I can't listen to the last boss theme without twitching.
6. Hitogata Happa
Vertical bullet hell shmup by the wonderful Platine Dispositif. An unusual experience in that one of its core mechanics involves you physically ramming your ships into enemies, something which flies in the face of most players' natural instincts. The shop system, selection of modes and 13 playable ships add enough variety that the frequent 'Game Overs' and replaying of the earlier stages isn't as grating as it otherwise can be in the genre. As with many of PD's offerings, the game is hard as nails encased in cement, with a special mention going to the Doomsday version of the TLB for being quite probably the most ridiculous boss I've ever come across.
7. Mystical Chain
A 2D arena beat 'em up (i.e. stages are fixed screens as opposed to being side-scrolling) by Lion Heart. You command two characters and can switch between them with a button press, allowing for some rather spectacular combos if your co-ordination is up to scratch. While the regular stages are entertaining enough, it's the boss encounters that shine the brightest, with precision and timing being required to exploit the gaps in their assaults. The soundtrack also contains some of best remixes of Touhou themes I've heard.
8. Genetos (freeware)
Unique shmup that begins as Space Invaders and ends as DoDonPachi. Rather than powering up in the traditional manner, you instead induce 'Generation Shifts', each of which introduces an evolutionary feature of the genre to your ship as well as different weapons and abilities depending on how you've been conducting yourself. A short but sweet experience, climaxing in one of my favourite final shmup stages; a sortie across the evolution of life.
9. MegaMari
Mega Man meets Touhou. Similarly to Mystical Chain above, you have two characters at your disposal and can switch between them at any time. While lacking compared to Rosenkreuzstilette in a number of areas, its challenging, well-designed bosses and variety of weapons (18 total across the two characters) make it a worthy alternative. If you enjoy 'buster only' runs, you will be reduced to tears at times.
10. Touhou 10.5: Scarlet Weather Rhapsody / 12.3: Unthinkable Natural Law
Unorthodox 2D fighter where long range combat is just as important as close range, if not more so. I know some fighting purists like to argue at lengths about how Immaterial and Missing Power is superior to SWR, but I'm not a fighting purist. The sequel has more characters, more cards (i.e. special attacks), is more accessible and generally more enjoyable. And then as the icing on the already heavily layered cake, the UNL expansion was released, updating all of the existing characters and adding 5 new ones.
Honourable mentions
* Irisu Syndrome (freeware)
A cute physics-based puzzle game(s) about a cute bunny girl and her cute adventures with her friends. The manner in which its story is told is unusual but very effective. Googling it would ruin the surprise, so instead you can get the (freeware) game here and the English patch here.
I spent a couple of days in therapy after this one.
* Takkoman
A Mega Man X styled game that begins with a bang which it sadly never manages to replicate until the endgame. Still, it's a frantic and engaging action platformer with an excellent soundtrack and - at times - some really fantastic presentation.
* Trouble Witches Neo
The XBLA adaptation of the original Trouble Witches game. A 2D horizontal shmup with charming aesthetics and a Fantasy Zone-esque shop system. More accessible than many other bullet hell games, primarily due to its straightforward mechanics.
* Katawa Shoujo (freeware)
An endearing visual novel which lacks the polish of many commercial releases but surpasses them utterly by virtue of its setting, characterisation and writing. I enjoyed it so much that I actually made the artbook my first backed Kickstarter.
* Mad Father (freeware)
A top-down horror RPG cut from similar cloth as The Witch's House and Ib, with improved core gameplay/mechanics (including some much welcome 'sidequests') but weaker atmosphere and tension. The true ending deserves a mention for concluding the game on a positive note
(hurrah for sociopathic medical types)
---
Some of the above descriptions were shamelessly regurgitated from previous posts I've made.
I'll be playing The Path in the very near future, so this list may well be subject to change.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Finally someone posted some Touhou in the thread. I was beginning to get worried.
Also, Trouble Witches is such a great game. Though I hate how the localization is horrible and XBOX exclusive.
Also, Trouble Witches is such a great game. Though I hate how the localization is horrible and XBOX exclusive.
Burgess_101
Member
Hotline Miami has taken over as my favourite game of all time. Everything about it is class.
What did you think of Cactus' other games?
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Is Mark of the Ninja indie? Excellent game but based on its credits, I'd say no.
Mark of the Ninja Credits
Lead Designer - Nels Anderson
Designers - Simon Cameron, Jason Dreger, Marcus Lo
Lead Programmer - Chris Costa
Programmers - Charles Bostik, Alex Colbert, Tatham Johnson, Brook Miles
Animation Supervisor - Aaron Bouthillier
Animation - Bruce Chang, Allan Cortez, Eugene Trakhtenberg
Environment Art Director - Meghan Shaw
Environment Artists - Vangelis Christou, Kelly Graham
Additional Art - Jordan Krahn, Brent 'Sol' Sallee, Alex Savin
Audio - Matthew Marteinsson, Daniel Gagnon
Production Manager - Alicia Savin
QA - Wade Lindley
Music - Vince de Vera, Jason Garner
Written by - Chris Dahlen
Story by - Jeff Agala, Nels Anderson, Aaron Bouthillier, Jamie Cheng, Chris Dahlen, Meghan SHaw
Creative Director - Jeff Agala
Executive Producer - Jamie Cheng
There's nearly 30 people who worked on it in a major way which is far bigger than what most people consider indie.
Mark of the Ninja Credits
Lead Designer - Nels Anderson
Designers - Simon Cameron, Jason Dreger, Marcus Lo
Lead Programmer - Chris Costa
Programmers - Charles Bostik, Alex Colbert, Tatham Johnson, Brook Miles
Animation Supervisor - Aaron Bouthillier
Animation - Bruce Chang, Allan Cortez, Eugene Trakhtenberg
Environment Art Director - Meghan Shaw
Environment Artists - Vangelis Christou, Kelly Graham
Additional Art - Jordan Krahn, Brent 'Sol' Sallee, Alex Savin
Audio - Matthew Marteinsson, Daniel Gagnon
Production Manager - Alicia Savin
QA - Wade Lindley
Music - Vince de Vera, Jason Garner
Written by - Chris Dahlen
Story by - Jeff Agala, Nels Anderson, Aaron Bouthillier, Jamie Cheng, Chris Dahlen, Meghan SHaw
Creative Director - Jeff Agala
Executive Producer - Jamie Cheng
There's nearly 30 people who worked on it in a major way which is far bigger than what most people consider indie.
A Huge Battleship
Member
HolyBaikal
Japanese Culture Expert
Though EoSD is probably my least favourite of the post PC-98 core games. Hoping you singled it out for noteworthiness rather than because you think it's the best.
Burgess_101
Member
Who are Cactus?
Weltall Zero
Member
Amazing post. Not only is it super detailed, I didn't know about over half of the games in it (and that's kind of weird, because I've always leaned more towards Japanese games than Western ones). The amount of moe (which I'm not a huge fan of) is a bit staggering, but I will definitely check some of those; Genetos sounds really interesting. Thanks a lot!
MotN is somewhat borderline, yeah. 30 people for an indie studio may be stretching it, although Wikipedia does qualify them as indie. But as always, where do we draw the line? Is it at 30? 29? 20?
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
My Top 10 at the Moment
Cave Story
Defender's Quest
Desktop Dungeons
Super Meat Boy
Braid
Aquaria
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Dungeons of Dredmor
ZZT
Recettear
Tried to limit my picks to games that were definitely indie and avoided borderline "Is this indie?" cases that I enjoy like Mark of the Ninja, Path of Exile, Defense Grid, etc. Oh and I tried to be somewhat impartial by leaving off our own games (though not completely impartial since I'm friends with many indie devs).
Cave Story
Defender's Quest
Desktop Dungeons
Super Meat Boy
Braid
Aquaria
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Dungeons of Dredmor
ZZT
Recettear
Tried to limit my picks to games that were definitely indie and avoided borderline "Is this indie?" cases that I enjoy like Mark of the Ninja, Path of Exile, Defense Grid, etc. Oh and I tried to be somewhat impartial by leaving off our own games (though not completely impartial since I'm friends with many indie devs).
RPS made an article about blurring the line between big indies and big companies going indie. Here's an excerpt about Klei (devs of Mark of the Ninja), bolded are quotes, not the most important parts:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/08/on-the-power-and-the-diminishing-returns-of-indie/
I hope it's OK to paste such a big chunk of it. What are your thoughts after reading it and you being a much smaller dev?
HolyBaikal
Banned
Stop. That hurts.
I can never be honest about games I love again because I'm forever branded a joke by my tag. Now every time I mention I like a Japanese game I look stupid.
I mentioned it because it was noteworthy. It was ZUN's first foray out of the PC-98 world and into the Windows world. Embodiment of Scarlet Devil also showed the signature style of Windows Touhou games that would follow. It is also easily the most famous Touhou game and the one that helped spawn the many thousands if not millions of Touhou fans worldwide.
Cactus/Cactus Squid is one person(Jonatan Soderstrom,). He makes indie games, Hotline Miami was just his latest work (together with Dennis Wedin).End of Hotline Miami spoilers:
They're the characters in the final level
Just before that he released Keyboard Drumset Fucking Werewolf, which, together with "I maed a game with Zombies in it" (or however that's spelled) are the only "music-video" games I've played.
Here's "Cactus Arcade" a bunch of freeware games he released all in one file: http://db.tigsource.com/games/cactus-arcade I recommend Shotgun Ninja and Clean Asia
And here's "Cactus Arcade 2", which is another bunch of freeware games he made.
It's cool to see people outside the indie scene finally catching on to him with Hotline, but it's frustrating that not many on GAF have played any of his earlier games. Help correct this!
Burgess_101
Member
Thanks for the recommendations I'll definitely give them a look! Also I think I have heard of Keyboard drumset fucking werewolf, it doesn't seem like something I would forget
SaggyMonkey
Member
Spaceteam
Audiosurf
FTL
Hotline Miami
Imscared
Fez
Spelunky
Walking Dead
Offensive Combat
Minecraft
Magicka
Audiosurf
FTL
Hotline Miami
Imscared
Fez
Spelunky
Walking Dead
Offensive Combat
Minecraft
Magicka
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
The whole issue of "Is this indie or not?" is often a big gray area. And it's not unusual for a team that started out as indie to become something else entirely - Activision is basically the original indie game developer and now they're the most hated of all AAA studios.
From that article, it sounds like not only did Mark of the Ninja have a sizable development team, but they also received funding from EA ("The scope of Ninja was probably too big for us to self-publish at the time.") so I'd say it's definitely not an indie game after reading that.
Then again, the game we're working on right now is another borderline case. The game is completely self-funded by Zeboyd Games (which is made up of just me & Bill Stiernberg) but it's using an IP from Penny Arcade (which actually, I'd consider another indie company due to their small size, albeit a very successful one). Is Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 4 an indie game? You could answer either way.
Yes, it's an indie game because it was primarily made by 2 people (and even if you're counting PA staff who worked on it & outsourcing, the total primary credits is only 6 people, excluding volunteer testers & a few singers for one of the songs) and the game was funded by Zeboyd Games.
No, it's not because it has a publisher (PA) and it's based on an IP that Zeboyd Games doesn't own.
So yeah, this whole area can get murky rather fast with the result that most people go more on the gut on what an indie game is than anything else. Like with Journey, many people consider that to be an indie game since it's artsy and was made by a relatively small core team, even though it was published and heavily pushed by Sony & even got a retail release later on.
Oh and just a quick note on the whole publisher thing - Microsoft doesn't allow indie developers to self-publish on XBLA. So if you see an XBLA that was published by Microsoft Game Studios sometimes it was funded by Microsoft and other times it's not and they just agreed to let Microsoft be the publisher because that was the only way that they could get on XBLA.
A Huge Battleship
Member
Totally not my intention, I meant it as a compliment! I hoped having a bunch of Touhou stuff in my list would've been a hint. Anyway, yes, agreed on the significance of EoSD.
Actually, Mark of the Ninja was funded by Microsoft, not EA.
I don't see what's debatable in your case though. Penny Arcade is not a traditional video game publisher, and whatever resources they offer you (I'm guessing recognizable brand, exposure on their website and at PAX, but you know better) don't change the fact that it's developed in a typical indie environment.
Similarly, the collaboration between WadJet Eye Games and other indie devs to bring to the market games like Primordia or Gemini Rue doesn't change the fact that both WJEG and their partners remain indie devs, outside of the established traditional game publishers like EA, Sony or Paradox.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Ah, you're right. I got confused since they teamed up with EA for their previous game.
EDIT: Oh and don't take my comments to be a slight against Klei Studios. They do really high quality work and I have nothing but respect for everyone who works there. I just think the question of "What is Indie?" is an interesting one. Plus, I'm running on low sleep.
not psycho
Member
Honestly I forgot about Touhou, but it wouldn't quite have made my top 10 anyway. Most likely because I'm not good enough at it.
I have played Subterranean Animism and Perfect Cherry Blossom. SA I never beat so I can't really rate it, PCB I did and it should have been in my first 5 honorable mentions.
Holy shit...that's a whole lot of people..
I talked to Kellee a few weeks ago about how much indies normally can ask for from a Publisher but I totally forgot to ask how many they were..
I also sometimes think it's much easier to get recognized as an Indie with artsy, quirky or retro graphics. Easier to market and easier to get coverage in general.
It's a really weird thing.
ah, missed there was a format to follow.
you should rearrange the OP a bit with a list of requirements or something, or people will miss it (it's a lot of text you know).
I'll see about fixing my post now
D3RANG3D
Member
Weltall Zero
Member
I actually bolded it yesterday, but that was after you posted, I think.
I think it's clear enough now? Or should I put more emphasis on it?Edit: There's a lot of posts that don't have 10 items yet... if any of the original posters read this, could you please fix them? If not, I'll have to ignore them for the tally. :/
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
If we're counting it, Mark of the Ninja a million times over. The game is a masterpiece in playability. While other indie games do more to forward the medium, Mark of the Ninja is pure, refined, fun traditional gameplay.
I find it surprising that Braid isn't mentioned anywhere in the 20 games listed in the OP.
I find it surprising that Braid isn't mentioned anywhere in the 20 games listed in the OP.
can I do less than ten?I actually bolded it yesterday, but that was after you posted, I think.
Edit: There's a lot of posts that don't have 10 items yet... if any of the original posters read this, could you please fix them? If not, I'll have to ignore them for the tally. :/
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Man I am absolutely enjoying the ever loving fuck out of Outland. I am pretty sure this is an indie game despite being published by Ubi, I guess it would be the same deal as bastion and WB studios.
It is literally a hack and slash version of Ikaruga which gets rather tough at points. I recently got this and I am not very far but man is it a blast. It was one of those games where you're constantly saying to yourself okay just one more area, one more room, one more key, next time I have fool health I'm done, next checkpoint I'm done and then before you know it it has been 3 hours.
The jumping mechanics are spot on but combat could possibly feel a little wonky some times, so you will feel like you get hit for no reason but that changes quickly as soon as you pick up other skills.
The co-op missions look like a blast too but I have yet to try em out.
It is literally a hack and slash version of Ikaruga which gets rather tough at points. I recently got this and I am not very far but man is it a blast. It was one of those games where you're constantly saying to yourself okay just one more area, one more room, one more key, next time I have fool health I'm done, next checkpoint I'm done and then before you know it it has been 3 hours.
The jumping mechanics are spot on but combat could possibly feel a little wonky some times, so you will feel like you get hit for no reason but that changes quickly as soon as you pick up other skills.
The co-op missions look like a blast too but I have yet to try em out.
Weltall Zero
Member
No, that's the thing. I'm going to have to ignore any list containing less than ten entries, as it upsets the vote balancing and disproportionally shoots up the vote count of those games in the list (which in turn tend to be the most popular already). Also, as a measure that people have a bit of indie culture before voting. But, since your list was already over ten, you should be able to trim it, right? If a list is over ten items, I'll just pick the first ten, that's why I asked you to remake it.
... holy shit. Can you believe I totally forgot about Braid? I don't have it installed on this computer since I finished it long ago; then when I read other people's lists I completely assumed I HAD included it :/ Talk about embarrassing! I'll correct my list now.
Ugh, now I have to demote one game from my top ten... guess it'll have to be Mark of the Ninja again...
I also started playing Hotline Miami... and I simply can't seem to get into it. Don't really care for all the violence either way, but I hate that kind of music and the gameplay seems nothing special. What am I missing here, guys?
yeah I think my problem is that now I have to select 10 I think are equally good because of the scoring system, which leaves me in a weird place when I have to add games I don't think are as good just to meet the criteria.
I'll see about filling the minimum 10 but that's my opinion on the overall scoring system. you know, for future threads.
Weltall Zero
Member
I understand; I had the exact opposite problem, having to leave out games that I though should definitely be in the top ten. Do not take it as "all games I mention have to be equally good"; other posters' votes will make sure the best and most popular games go on top.
It might seem like a counterintuitive system, but it worked really well in the RPG thread IMHO, so I'm keeping it for this.