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NeoGAF's Top/Essential Indie Games
- Thread starter Weltall Zero
- Start date
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
No, that's the thing. I'm going to have to ignore any list containing less than ten entries, as it upsets the vote balancing and disproportionally shoots up the vote count of those games in the list (which in turn tend to be the most popular already). Also, as a measure that people have a bit of indie culture before voting. But, since your list was already over ten, you should be able to trim it, right? If a list is over ten items, I'll just pick the first ten, that's why I asked you to remake it.
... holy shit. Can you believe I totally forgot about Braid? I don't have it installed on this computer since I finished it long ago; then when I read other people's lists I completely assumed I HAD included it :/ Talk about embarrassing! I'll correct my list now.
Ugh, now I have to demote one game from my top ten... guess it'll have to be Mark of the Ninja again...
I also started playing Hotline Miami... and I simply can't seem to get into it. Don't really care for all the violence either way, but I hate that kind of music and the gameplay seems nothing special. What am I missing here, guys?
Hotline: Miami is about trial-and-error-and-error-and-error-and-error until you get it exactly right and then kind of marvel at the carnage you just unleashed. Since you can't survive a single hit every successful level plays out like a crazy-ass action movie scene. It's weirdly analogous to those infuriating Stuntmen games on the PS2, now that I think about it. If the ultraviolence isn't for you then its appeal is pretty handicapped.
And if you don't like the music then you're just a communist.
yeah, I guess I found it easier on RPGs because the selection pool is 10 more years worth of titles and because I got to choose one favorite.
also afaik you could pick less than ten in the essencial RPG list but I could be wrong.
I still have to banner up and comment my picks so even if I don't get tallied at least I make for a decent read.
Weltall Zero
Member
Oh, it was allowed? I could not find the voting threads for the life of me, so I had to extrapolate the rules from the tallies. I want to mimic those rules as closely as possible, so if they allowed for lists smaller than 10, then I will, too.
I'm assuming they did not allow more than 10 games per poster, right?
right, you could add honorable mentions like here but they didn't get points like in the goty threads.
and I think they replace the OPs on the voting threads or delete them or something, I tried to look for the rules and couldn't find them either.
want me to PM kswiston? I think only one of us should PM him not to be too annoying or something (as I beleive I'm being right now lol)
Weltall Zero
Member
That would be awesome, yes, thanks a lot!
sent
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Edit: just to follow on the format
bit Trip Complete (Wii version)
La~Mulana remake
Sword and Poker 2 (iOS)
Ammesia: Dark Descent (PC)
Game Dev Story (iOS)
Limbo
Super Meat Boy
Super Hexagon
Spelunky HD (xbox 360)
Canabalt (iOS)
--
There are so many, but since I wouldn't call Journey and "Indie" title, and there's been plenty of the usual suspects (Bastion, World of Goo, Super Hexagon, Dyad, Cave Story+, the first Trials HD..). Does Plants Vs Zombies count? If it does, put that in as well.
Wii version (Wii controls are much better for the majority of the games) of:
Playism/Desura/Steam (soon) +Wiiware minus Hell Temple DLC, remake of:
bit Trip Complete (Wii version)
La~Mulana remake
Sword and Poker 2 (iOS)
Ammesia: Dark Descent (PC)
Game Dev Story (iOS)
Limbo
Super Meat Boy
Super Hexagon
Spelunky HD (xbox 360)
Canabalt (iOS)
--
There are so many, but since I wouldn't call Journey and "Indie" title, and there's been plenty of the usual suspects (Bastion, World of Goo, Super Hexagon, Dyad, Cave Story+, the first Trials HD..). Does Plants Vs Zombies count? If it does, put that in as well.
Wii version (Wii controls are much better for the majority of the games) of:
Playism/Desura/Steam (soon) +Wiiware minus Hell Temple DLC, remake of:
Weltall Zero
Member
I added to the OP a bolded, underlined, capital-lettered bit about votes needing to include exactly 10 games. Dash Kappei, could you remake your post? You voted for a couple of games I didn't know about and I would hate to lose your votes (assuming we don't allow partial lists).
Also, Plants vs Zombies doesn't count (I actually put it in my top ten until I was made to notice PopCap is 400 employees).
Dash Kappei, could you remake your post? You voted for a couple of games I didn't know about and I would hate to lose your votes (assuming we don't allow partial lists).Also, Plants vs Zombies doesn't count (I actually put it in my top ten until I was made to notice PopCap is 400 employees
).Weltall Zero
Member
Since I really, really don't want to miss anyone's contribution, I've quoted below everyone who posted more than ten or less than five games, and posts that included games that don't seem to be indie (this doesn't count "borderline" games, but games that seem to be definitely not indie). Hopefully they'll see this via their "who quoted me" function (which seems less spammy/intrusive than PMing them) and edit their posts. Right now:
1) Posts with more than ten entries will have only the first ten tallied.
2) Posts will less than five entries will be ignored.
3) Obviously non-indie game that are honest mistakes (Witcher 2, CDProjekt is 112 employees) will only have the other games in the post tallied.
4) Post that include non-indie games that are obviously meant to do so (yeah, there's a couple in the thread), will be considered troll posts and ignored (will not be included below either).
By the way, if you do go back and edit your posts, please post about it in the thread (do not post the list again, only that you changed it) so that I can remove you from the above list. Thanks!
The following people's posts are in one of the first three cases:
).
1) Posts with more than ten entries will have only the first ten tallied.
2) Posts will less than five entries will be ignored.
3) Obviously non-indie game that are honest mistakes (Witcher 2, CDProjekt is 112 employees) will only have the other games in the post tallied.
4) Post that include non-indie games that are obviously meant to do so (yeah, there's a couple in the thread), will be considered troll posts and ignored (will not be included below either).
By the way, if you do go back and edit your posts, please post about it in the thread (do not post the list again, only that you changed it) so that I can remove you from the above list. Thanks!
The following people's posts are in one of the first three cases:
-> 1 item, would not be tallied.
-> 2 items, would not be tallied.
-> 1 item, would not be tallied.
-> 4 items, would not be tallied.
-> 1 item, would not be tallied.
-> 1 item, would not be tallied.
-> 15 items, the bottom 5 would not be tallied.
-> 18 items, the bottom 8 would not be tallied.
-> 3 items, would not be tallied.
-> Broken Sword seems not to be indie, could you provide evidence?
-> 11 items, Magicka would not be tallied.
-> Exceed Trilogy is three games, making your list 11; Cave Story would not be tallied (and nobody wants that to happen, so could you edit your list?
).Do you think Mount & Blade counts?
I think the first game was a husband and wife thing but since Paradox published from Warband onwards I'm not sure.
edit: also btw you might want to set a final date or something for the votes to be tallied. let me know any help you'd need setting anything about this thread up, I'd be glad to help in whatever way I can
I think the first game was a husband and wife thing but since Paradox published from Warband onwards I'm not sure.
edit: also btw you might want to set a final date or something for the votes to be tallied. let me know any help you'd need setting anything about this thread up, I'd be glad to help in whatever way I can
I have 9 entries. I don't feel like padding my list with a game I don't feel deserves to be among the others.
Weltall Zero
Member
I would be perfectly OK with accepting entries with 9 votes. The problem is that someone else may post 8 votes, and they could then (justifiably) ask why theirs aren't valid when 9 are. Then there's several people already with 7 votes... I guess you know where this is going.
At this point I'm wishing for the author of the RPG thread to say partial lists are OK, or even how they handled them, to make my life easier. It's kind of funny, because when I made this thread, the problems I anticipated (namely, immediate fall into obscurity) have zero overlap with those that have actually arisen (possible thread illegitimacy, misundertood purpose, etc.).
Could you please make that research? If you do, post it in here for others (including me) to peruse it. I'd like to ask for everyone's contributio to provide proof on whether or not a given game is indie or not (mostly proof in the vein of "the studio has 100+ employees" or "it has 5 employees".
Immensely appreciated! I will definitely need help with lots of stuff.
As for the cutoff date, I honestly have no clue. Again, information about how the RPG thread was handled seems to have gone missing. My idea was to tally when it was apparent that we wouldn't get many more votes (i.e. when the thread went through several days without new replies). I think, say, making a date a couple of months off is not realistic as the thread will have been long forgotten by then. But I accept suggestions on that front.
I always assumed that when there is a limit of 10 that my votes up to 10 entries would be handled like the first X in another one's list.
Like in the GOTY thread. When I only nominate 3 games, they are handled like the top 3 entries of someone that has 6 and the first 6 of that guy are handled like the first 6 in a list of someone with 10 entries.
yeah you chose a pretty big undertaking for your first thread. I'm guessing if this first stab at it is kinda rocky, the next one will be all the better.
Hmm, in Mount & Blade's case, I don't really know what to say. They're listed on wikipedia as having 25 employees as of late 2012 which sounds really small, but all of their games have been published by Paradox, so I dunno.
I'm leaning towards taking them out because in the same vein as Double Fine, they seem to work with publishers on publisher-like deals, which doesn't sound garage-y enough for me to count them. I'm kinda divided on the same reason for games like Shank that are published by EA under that weird EA for indies program.
I guess those weird cases fall under the same umbrella as the weird RPGs in the RPG thread: if three dudes count some Zelda games as RPGs then good on them, but since the other 500 dudes aren't gonna, those votes will end up buried under the sea of more conventional votes.
Yeah I was thinking like a month from now, depending on if it picks ups the pace and whatnot.
The essential FPSes thread died really fast so I dunno.
Weltall Zero
Member
Yeah, it IS surprising, now that you mention it. Perhaps Minecraft fans are too busy playing Minecraft to post?
That makes more sense when it's a weighted list (i.e. 5 points to the first on your list, 3 points to the second, and so on), because the last places get proportionally less points, and so omitting them is not too big of a difference. However, when each and every game gets one vote, the difference between being in the list and not being in it is much larger; therefore, partial lists unbalancedly favor the most popular games.
I'm deferring the decision to whatever was done in the Essential RPGs threads, though; their author has been contacted asking what did they do.
Eh, let's see if there is a next one.
Interestingly, that was exactly my thought as well, and the very reasoning behind letting people vote for games that might be dubious: their very "edge" condition will make them receive less votes. I myself left out Double Fine because I don't consider them exactly indie, but they're rather borderline too.
A month as the limit sounds fair, but I'm not confident that the thread will stay afloat nearly that long.
I didn't even know about it until now, actually. 1999 is not exactly a time where the indie scene was widespreadly known (and less so in Spain, in my defense
).Finished and damn, this is one of the best metroidvania I've ever played!
Mavromatis
Member
Okay I'm fixing my list now.
- Mount & Blade: Warband
- Chivalry Medieval Warfare
- Hotline Miami
- Papers Please (Thanks for these threads for showing it to me)
- Critter Crunch (sorry for forgetting you earlier Cappy)
- Atom Zombie Smasher
Those who were indie: - Broken Sword 1,2: Produced by Revolution Software, remastered editions may not count but they are doing a kickstarter now
- Grand Theft Auto : Produced by DMA Design now Rockstar Games
- Civilization : Created by Sid Meier and Bruce Shelley now Firaxis
- Transport Tycoon Deluxe : Produced by Chris Sawyer; I want to name OpenTTD as it's successor, still indie
Ok, so 6 new 4 old games on my list, total 10.
Mavromatis
Member
Mount & Blade is produced by TaleWorlds Entertainment, legally known as İkisoft in Ankara, Turkey and they have 25 people working. First game was a hobby game designed at the Bilkent University's cyberpark. And the artworks were done by his wife, so I assume that it still counts as indie. Except Fire & Sword, they said that only the multiplayer is done by TaleWorlds and rest is done by some Russian firm.
Goldenroad
Member
Super Meat Boy
Limbo
Braid
Fez
Mark of the Ninja
Journey
Flower
Cave Story
Bastion
Dyad
Limbo
Braid
Fez
Mark of the Ninja
Journey
Flower
Cave Story
Bastion
Dyad
not psycho
Member
According to this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45832508&postcount=401
There was a 5 game minimum, rather than 10 in the Essential RPGs.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45832508&postcount=401
There was a 5 game minimum, rather than 10 in the Essential RPGs.
You know it's sad when Toma makes a thread and GAF dismisses it and then you make a "top/essential" voting thread asking for 10 games and most of the posts in the thread so far are 1-3 game recommendations.
Says more about the state of the indie "industry" than anything, eh?
As for me, the only game I can really recommend from indies that I liked (despite some SERIOUS faults in the multiplayer) is Frozen Synapse. It took a concept and worked it pretty well. More than I can say some of the indie games I've played.
Says more about the state of the indie "industry" than anything, eh?
As for me, the only game I can really recommend from indies that I liked (despite some SERIOUS faults in the multiplayer) is Frozen Synapse. It took a concept and worked it pretty well. More than I can say some of the indie games I've played.
I think most people did rather well posting a bigger list. But yeah, I also feel that a discussed list makes more sense, especially for Indies, which have such a huge spectrum. But we'll see how this turns out.
My problem currently is that any other game I mention, will potentially put down Dwarf Fortress and Frozen Synapse, which are in my opinion two very important games for the whole scene. Same should be said about Minecraft really, but I feel a bit schizophrenic because if I include smaller games, they dont really represent an "Essential" gaming list, but if I name the games that are essential, the games I value more will have even worse chances of getting up in the ranking, especially considering those games are usually named by everyone else anyway.
Yeah, I shouldnt "calculate" it that way, but thats also the reason why I havent put up any "list" myself yet and only gave listing recommendations of games I deem important.
Besides, there are a LOT of great Indies, the problem is that the community is way too split up. Jason Rohrer is one of my favourite Indie devs, and I just got to know that he actually released a new game I didnt know about. Its basically impossible to keep up with everything, which leads to most people in a non-Indie focussed community to only play the big games.
Noisepurge
Member
Super Meat Boy
Hotline Miami
FTL
Super Crate Box
Minecraft
Super Hexagon
Journey
VVVVVV
Retro City Rampage
Söldner X Himmelssturmer
Hotline Miami
FTL
Super Crate Box
Minecraft
Super Hexagon
Journey
VVVVVV
Retro City Rampage
Söldner X Himmelssturmer
Weltall Zero
Member
Awesome, thanks! That seems really reasonable, and I'll be happy to implement that. I've just updated my "warning post" to comply with this, and also provide an explanation about what's wrong with each post.
Tell me about it.
I guess people are really not into indie games, because I feel like I could fill a 50 game list with absolutely top notch indie games. Heck, I've discovered at least 5 new indie games in the last three days alone that I don't know where I'm going to get time to play. Fans of SpaceChem, you absolutely must download and play the Factorio demo. But yeah, it's kind of baffling seeing people trying to make this thread... into a thread that already exists twice (SalsaShark's and Toma's threads), and worse, seeing one of them not being posted on AT ALL (even though it's linked right there in the OP!) and the other almost equally sparingly.
I actually played a bit of Frozen Synapse for the first time this week, and it was as good as everyone says. I can see myself sinking more time in it.
Yeah, let's see.
I have a feeling the tally and its accompanying game descriptions will be satisfying enough for most people. I totally feel you; the same thing happened to me when considering whether to include lesser known games, like Desktop Dungeons and Maldita Castilla, or games that have universal appeal and thus have better chance of luring strangers to the genre. In a sense, the split is because we're trying to service two different audiences (the non-indie savvy and the one that is but may have missed a dearie of ours). The purpose of this thread is the first, so I've tried focusing on that.
Perhaps in the future, and if this goes well, we can have two versions of this vote: the "Essential Indies" and "Overlooked Indies". But I have a feeling getting mod approval for even one of them in the future might be tough.
Speaking of which, we still don't have mod confirmation either way on this very thread...
That's my problem multiplied by 10x. My gaming time is pretty limited, and it's already split between indies and mainstream (well, as mainstream as Dark Souls etc. gets) games. Just the time needed to read the titles and descriptions of every indie game that could be potentially interesting to me would exhaust that time! Reading your thread is like gazing into the abyss, because there is a ton of games that seem super interesting but there is no way in hell I can try them all. :/ It's actually stressing.
Aquaria but no Spelunky? Whatcha got against Yu's magnum opus?
Awesome, thanks! That seems really reasonable, and I'll be happy to implement that. I'll update my "warning post" to remove people with 5 or more entries.
Tell me about it.
But yeah, it's kind of baffling seeing people trying to make this thread... into a thread that already exists twice (SalsaShark's and Toma's threads), and worse, seeing one of them not being posted on AT ALL (even though it's linked right there in the OP!) and the other almost equally sparingly.
I actually played a bit of Frozen Synapse for the first time this week, and it was as good as everyone says. I can see myself sinking more time in it.
Yeah, let's see.
I totally feel you; the same thing happened to me when considering whether to include lesser known games, like Desktop Dungeons and Maldita Castilla, or games that have universal appeal and thus have better chance of luring strangers to the genre. In a sense, the split is because we're trying to service two different audiences (the non-indie savvy and the one that is but may have missed a dearie of ours). The purpose of this thread is the first, so I've tried focusing on that.
Perhaps in the future, and if this goes well, we can have two versions of this vote: the "Essential Indies" and "Overlooked Indies". But I have a feeling getting mod approval for even one of them in the future might be tough.
Speaking of which, we still don't have mod confirmation either way on this very thread...
That's my problem multiplied by 10x. My gaming time is pretty limited, and it's already split between indies and mainstream (well, as mainstream as Dark Souls etc. gets) games. Just the time needed to read the titles and descriptions of every indie game that could be potentially interesting to me would exhaust that time! Reading your thread is like gazing into the abyss, because there is a ton of games that seem super interesting but there is no way in hell I can try them all. :/ It's actually stressing.
Yeah, its pretty difficult to find out what these threads actually are about if we cant even decide on what Indie means or what we want from these list. I'd say that this thread will do a nice job of giving a decent overview of the bigger games that people should check out if they into Indie Games for the first time.
For smaller and overlooked games, I think the monthly Indie Games thread and monthly voting + yearly tally will do a better job, since we actually (you included) take time to discuss things over there. But I guess we'll see how that turns out.
Oxnard Montalvo
Member
Bastion
FTL
Braid
Dust: An Elysian tail
FTL
Braid
Dust: An Elysian tail
The games I think really stood out and did something truly unique and noteworthy. No fan service, or "retro" through backs allowed, regardles of how clever. This list is for games that I think actually mean something for the medium:
Cart Life
FTL
Miasmata
Braid
The Stanley Parable
The Ship
Minecraft
To the Moon
Dear Esther
Space Chem
Cart Life
FTL
Miasmata
Braid
The Stanley Parable
The Ship
Minecraft
To the Moon
Dear Esther
Space Chem
While I agree with the reason behind most picks, honest question:
What does Frog Fractions mean for the medium?
Edit: I am imagining things. NOW ITS GONE.
Mavromatis
Member
The first two games were developed by a very small team, led by Charles Cecil. They remade the games with some outside help so we may not count those remakes as indie. But now they are gathering the old team back to make a new game of Broken Sword, a proper continuation of Broken Sword 1&2 and not like Broken Sword 3&4 which were, well just for the money apparently. Here is a link for the new Kickstarter. Also the first two games were in an indie gala bundle, if that counts as a thing.
Conclusion:
First 2 games indie, last 2 not.
Basically I'd like to vote for Warband. What do you think?
not psycho
Member
Lots of people are doing this, but I can't help but think it is a bad idea. Why not just list your favorite/best indie games of all time, and not worry about being different from other lists or only listing "important" games?
You can always list more than 10 games, and still get all of these on the list somewhere.
Or, you could post the same list but don't tell us they aren't your favorite/best games. If you just put The Witch's House as the 2nd best indie game ever made with no qualification, I'd be more likely to think "wow, maybe I should try that." When you say you are trying to do something different I think "wow, I have no idea what this list means, I'll ignore it."
Mavromatis
Member
I also voted for it and it is an indie game developed by 16 people, or at least there was 16 people working at TaleWorlds when they released with some of them not working on development, according to an article on a local newspaper. So I'll say it is an indie game.
By the way this game is now somewhat a national pride issue, since there aren't many successful games developed by Turks, except Crytek.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Super Meat Boy
Faster Than Light
VVVVVV
Hotline Miami
Cave Story
Binding of Isaac
Super Hexagon
Fez
Super House of Dead Ninjas
Journey
Faster Than Light
VVVVVV
Hotline Miami
Cave Story
Binding of Isaac
Super Hexagon
Fez
Super House of Dead Ninjas
Journey
Crytek is a turkish company? I always thought they were german.
well I'm gonna add them to my top 10, because it's one of my favorite games of all time.
Mavromatis
Member
Founders of it are Turks living in Germany, apparently %5 of Germany is Turks. So this is not an extraordinary thing.
Weltall Zero
Member
It was kind of my hope that linking the threads in the OP would make more people have a look at you and SalsaShark's for that, but I'm not sure that's been working too well...
Five minimum or not tallied, sorry. It's kind of bolded, underlined and CAPITALIZED in the OP, man.
That sounds like something Frog Fractions itself would do!
What a schizophrenic little game, I nearly lost it at the text adventure. Thanks a lot! You know, I'm learning a lot with this thread. BS1 happens to be one of my GF's favorite games too.
I totally get your point, and indeed, the idea is for people to vote for the most significant games, not to show their hipster indie cred. On the other hand, 1) it won't mean much in the grand scheme of things once stuff is tallied, since more obscure games will only get one vote, and 2) if a game gets two or more of these votes, it means that it's doing something right and that it probably deserves the bump up the tally it gets.
I didn't have a clue that Mount and Blade (which I definitely should get around to try at some point, I know it's very good), nor Crytek were Turkish; that's pretty freaking awesome, you really should be proud. I understand perfectly, too; Spain was one of the leading countries in game development during the 8-bit micro (Spectrum, etc.) era, but production fell to nearly zero in recent years, until Mercury Steam and Locomalito made me feel proud again.
Mavromatis
Member
Since I found someone interested at Mount & Blade let me post this:
Floris Mod Pack.
At first gameplay every player loves the game yet feels that something more could be added to it, this is the mod pack adding those.
I've run the diplomacy mod forever, how does floris stack against it?