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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don

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NeonZ

Member
As for Sakurai ignoring non-Japanese games/popular Japanese games, I'm assuming that since Sakurai has put in vague Japanese only items but hasn't even put in the Prime series dispite its popularity.

Huh... Diddy Kong is an English creation and his special moves are mostly based on Donkey Kong 64, it seems...

Anyway, just posting that list from Sakurai's Q&A again, along with some comments written by me... As I understand it, this result isn't really a total poll, but only based on the messages which Sakurai chose to show in that site. However, it might reveal his interest in some characters, not necessarily their popularity. Only the characters with more than 1 mention are listed:

King Dedede(5)
I'll be really surprised if he isn't in, at least, as a boss, but he probably will be playable. This time Sakurai doesn't seem to be restricting the Kirby franchise, considering Metaknight's inclusion and all the focus on his ship.

Diddy Kong(4)
Confirmed.


...

If he makes it to the game, I'll kill somebody. I'll never understand the appeal of his character and it'd be a real waste... there won't be many 3rd party characters, after all, it'd be a total waste of a slot.


Confirmed.

Ridley(4)
If not playable, he surely will be in as a boss, I think.

Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3)
I could see Olimar making it as the "secret character with weird fighting style" unlocked almost after everything else, like Ness in the original SSB or Mr. Game & Watch in SSBM.

Krystal(3)
Bah. Never liked her design and she hasn't really done much after her first game.

Takamaru(3)
2 Japan only characters? Melee had that, so it could happen again, I guess. However, isn't Takamaru another swordsman? Considering Ike's instant slash attack, which seems the kind of thing a cartoony/anime-ish samurai often gets, I think he won't be in as a playable character, though he probably will be an Assist Trophy.

Windwaker Link(3)
The Japanese seem to call him "cat eye Link" according to random online translators... Anyway, we've seen a Tingle Trophy using the Wind Waker model, including cell shading, so I do think he might make it.

Animal Crossing MC(2)

Hm... I'm not sure about this one. Revealing the stage before the character just seems weird, and he'd be even more generic than the Pokemon Trainer. However, I do think he'd be the only proper representation of the franchise.




Confirmed.


Maybe, everyone in the (3+) area will be fully playable! I'd be generally pleasantly surprised.


... ???

I don't see how they'd make him very different from Lucas, unless they really want to spoil Mother 3's entire storyline.

However, it'd be awesome if Sakurai had included a compact 3d version of Mother 3's storyline inside Subspace Emissary, I'd even forgive him for replacing Ness, if that happens. :D

Demiru/Demille(2)

Another Japanese only character, right? Or have I just missed his games?

I'm not sure what to say about him.

He seems to be completely forgotten these days, and would be yet another sword wielding character. It's especially unlikely due to the diminished relation between Nintendo and Camelot.


Assist trophy, at most. This game seems to clearly focus on Mother 3, there's not much space for him, I think, unfortunately. I'll be happy enough if Ness and a Mother 2 level are still in...

Kawasima(2)

Secret single player boss, I'm calling it now!

King K.Rool(2)

He could be an unplayable boss with limited moveset like in the battles of the old 2d DKC games, but I don't think he'll be playable- the DK franchise just doesn't seem popular enough at this point. Diddy will be the only real addition to the DK cast, I'm guessing.


Nintendo of America hates her apparently so there's no way she'll ever appear as a main character.

Mega Man(2)

The original! If Lucas made it he can appear too! Ok, not really the same situation, but I'm really hoping he appears in Brawl.

Capcom should include Megaman and Demitri (from Darkstalkers- Smash Bros lacks vampires with DBZ-like auras!)! >_> (though the later has 0% chance of making it in).


The first Fire Emblem is finally getting released outside of Japan, so everyone will be able to see the original mercenary/hero of the Fire Emblem series. He could appear as an Assist trophy if Marth is still in, I think. However, I'd be disappointed if he's playable at this point, as Ike's slower and powerful sword style would make him redundant, even if he were in his Hero form with the large shield and different animations.

Ouendan(2)
Perfect assist trophy characters. Nothing much else to say.

Sukapon(2)
Nintendo's first fighting game and side scrolling action mix. I could see Sakurai including the first robot as a Game & Watch character of sorts, but it's even more doubtful than the former due to his Japan-only status. Of course, after the Mother 3 centered additions, there is no guarantee he won't include more Japanese-only characters, anyway.
 
PkunkFury said:
I still think we will see a Prime influence somewhere, either as a level, or in adventure mode. Fusion and Zero mission also came out after SSBM and can be represented as well. It looks like Norfair is modeled a bit after the Zero Mission style. It's possible Sakurai knows people on the ZM team or something.

I agree. Phendrana Drifts from MP1 with the floaty platforms would make a great stage.
Metroidprime10101.jpg


Plus there could be points during the brawl when the snow gets really heavy and slows down characters, which could make for some interesting gameplay and strategy. Maybe even make it hard for the player to see through the snow.
 

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
Amir0x said:
Heh, New Pork City is a pretty big spoiler from Mother 3.

They really need to bring that shit over...

Oh there you are, we've been waiting all day for you to turn up.

What's your excuse today? Was there a cockrel in your lounge again?
 

Fireblend

Banned
Meh, this game is pretty much perfect for me now. I'd only wish there were less floating platforms with pretty backgrounds and more fighting in those backgrounds. Right now I can't probably ask for much, anything that can make this game better has about a 1% possibility of happening(Klonoa, Megaman, Sami, Pikmin kinda has chances, Wind Waker Link would be cool...), so I don't really care by now, just hope this gets as polished as possible before release.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Scribble said:
What do they specifically mean by "assets", anyway? If they were creating, say, a Phendrana Drifts stage, would they really need Retro's help?

And what stuff do people actually want from Prime, anyway?


-- No Prime-style suit or moves
I guess, but most characters kept their old movesets. Sakurai didn't even use anything from Super Princess Peach >=/



-- No Prime-inspired levels (returning to Norfair instead, for example)

We can't really use this as evidence -- it's only one level.


-- Zero Suit Samus instead of, say, Dark Samus

Dark Samus would be a playable character, and we know there's a *huge* queue for playable characters already, which includes Ridley. Zero Suit Samus is probably more important since Samus "appearing out of her suit" has been a huge gimmick from the beginning.

The big thing that makes Prime assets being in Brawl doubtful is that Samus doens't look anything like her Prime incarnations. Everyother series character is modeled after their latest game but Samus is modeled after Zero Mission and Fusion.

PkunkFury said:
I still think we will see a Prime influence somewhere, either as a level, or in adventure mode. Fusion and Zero mission also came out after SSBM and can be represented as well. It looks like Norfair is modeled a bit after the Zero Mission style. It's possible Sakurai knows people on the ZM team or something.

Sakurai may have gotten help from Retro since that interview, or he may have just gone to some of the Japanes members of the Prime team and left the rest of Retro in the dark. Don't forget, Metroid Prime Pinball was made in Japan and was very faithful to the series. Also, we had two metroid stages last time, there could be three this time around. That said, If Ridley is in, I expect them to go with the 2D design as opposed to Prime's Meta-style
No it wasn't. Metroid Prime Pinball was made by Fuse Games in the UK
 

Akai

Member
NeonZ said:
He seems to be completely forgotten these days, and would be yet another sword wielding character. It's especially unlikely due to the diminished relation between Nintendo and Camelot.
A sword-wielding character that can use magic and Djinn...And "diminished relation"? Camelot has just recently gone on record to say that they do plan to work on another Golden Sun some day, and that Ninty has asked them personally to make it...
 
grandjedi6 said:
No it wasn't. Metroid Prime Pinball was made by Fuse Games in the UK
This just got me thinking to why it took over a year for the game to hit our UK shelves after america, something is just not right :lol
 

Fireblend

Banned
Akai said:
A sword-wielding character that can use magic and Djinn...And "diminished relation"? Camelot has just recently gone on record to say that they do plan to work on another Golden Sun some day, and that Ninty has asked them personally to make it...
I actually agree it would be another sword-weilding character, unless they really focus it on magic, in which case Alex would be much more awesome. :lol
 
If we had to have another Fire Emblem character, my personal choice would be Soren. But it won't happen since there's already another PoR character and he's not technically a lord.

Still, though, he is by far my favorite character in the series.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Diablohead said:
This just got me thinking to why it took over a year for the game to hit our UK shelves after america, something is just not right :lol

Europe always gets screwed like that. You guys aren't even getting Battalion Wars first. It's probably partly due to all the languages it has to be translated. I'm also wondering if all game commissions in the West go through NOA also.
 

Zeed

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Still, though, he is by far my favorite character in the series.
I seriously do not get why Soren is so popular. He's the standard angst-ridden emokid with a tragic past. He's a sterotype if I've ever seen one, and isn't all that significant in the storyline either.
That sorta changes in Radiant Dawn, but he's still the same angsty boring Soren
.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
After watching the videos again, the game is definitely more floaty than Melee. Not a huge difference but it is definitely more floaty.
 
Zeed said:
I seriously do not get why Soren is so popular. He's the standard angst-ridden emokid with a tragic past. He's a sterotype if I've ever seen one, and isn't all that significant in the storyline either.
If you want a personal opinion as an answer, I can do that.

It's easy to write him off as the angst-ridden emo kid with a tragic past, since that's how the game presents him in most of the support conversations. It's apparent that he's ridiculously co-dependent upon Ike, though, to the point where he's almost in love with him. In his last support conversation, he's contemplating suicide if Ike were to ever think less of him. Yeah, it could be construed as "lol emo", but it was by far one of the most realistic examples of a co-dependent character I had seen in a video game. That doesn't mean you have to like him, but as far as I'm concerned he is one of my favorites.
 
fly high ~ayunite~ said:
I agree. Phendrana Drifts from MP1 with the floaty platforms would make a great stage.
Metroidprime10101.jpg


Plus there could be points during the brawl when the snow gets really heavy and slows down characters, which could make for some interesting gameplay and strategy. Maybe even make it hard for the player to see through the snow.
That would be amazing. The music alone...
 

EktorPR

Member
Fireblend said:
Meh, this game is pretty much perfect for me now. I'd only wish there were less floating platforms with pretty backgrounds and more fighting in those backgrounds. Right now I can't probably ask for much, anything that can make this game better has about a 1% possibility of happening(Klonoa, Megaman, Sami, Pikmin kinda has chances, Wind Waker Link would be cool...), so I don't really care by now, just hope this gets as polished as possible before release.

Shit, if Advance Wars and fricken' Drill Dozer are represented in the game, I can't see a reason why Sakurai wouldn't introduce the Pikmin to the world of Smash Bros. They better be there in some form, along with Capt. Olimar.
 

Jiggy

Member
I stand by wanting Mist if they really feel like putting another FE9/10 character in. I'd just like to see even one SSBB fighter who has the ability to heal herself (without getting hit by someone else's projectile), even if it's a difficult move to pull off and doesn't do much.

She could also possibly use her healing staff like a weapon, which would hopefully help to assure that Krystal comes nowhere near this game ever in any capacity at all.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
EktorPR said:
Shit, if Advance Wars and fricken' Drill Dozer are represented in the game, I can't see a reason why Sakurai wouldn't introduce the Pikmin to the world of Smash Bros. They better be there in some form, along with Capt. Olimar.

Oh Pikmin WILL be there especially since Olimar rated so high on the character poll. I'm just hoping he doens't get assist trophy'd
 

NeonZ

Member
Akai said:
A sword-wielding character that can use magic and Djinn...And "diminished relation"? Camelot has just recently gone on record to say that they do plan to work on another Golden Sun some day, and that Ninty has asked them personally to make it...

They randomly gave Ike a fire spell though... However, you might be right about their relations.
 

EktorPR

Member
Jiggy37 said:
I stand by wanting Mist if they really feel like putting another FE9/10 character in. I'd just like to see even one SSBB fighter who has the ability to heal herself (without getting hit by someone else's projectile), even if it's a difficult move to pull off and doesn't do much.

She could also possibly use her healing staff like a weapon, which would hopefully help to assure that Krystal comes nowhere near this game ever in any capacity at all.

Actually, I love that idea...

Sakurai, you read it right! Now make it happen!! :D
 

Zeed

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
If you want a personal opinion as an answer, I can do that.

It's easy to write him off as the angst-ridden emo kid with a tragic past, since that's how the game presents him in most of the support conversations. It's apparent that he's ridiculously co-dependent upon Ike, though, to the point where he's almost in love with him. In his last support conversation, he's contemplating suicide if Ike were to ever think less of him. Yeah, it could be construed as "lol emo", but it was by far one of the most realistic examples of a co-dependent character I had seen in a video game. That doesn't mean you have to like him, but as far as I'm concerned he is one of my favorites.
Hm. Well I guess I can see that. It irks me though that he placed highly in the polls in Japan when far more important (and in my opinion, superior) characters never even made it on the list.

Jiggy37 said:
I stand by wanting Mist if they really feel like putting another FE9/10 character in.
Ever since Lyn became an assist (9/11/07 NEVER FORGET) I've feared that it's just going to be Marth and Ike in Brawl. I'd love to be mistaken, but I can't shake that suspicion.
 

Jiggy

Member
Oh, believe me, I fear you're right.
I just hope we're both wrong. Mist or Micaiah would make some sense to me in terms of how prominent they are in their stories...
 

GamerSoul

Member
Jiggy37 said:
I stand by wanting Mist if they really feel like putting another FE9/10 character in. I'd just like to see even one SSBB fighter who has the ability to heal herself (without getting hit by someone else's projectile), even if it's a difficult move to pull off and doesn't do much.

She could also possibly use her healing staff like a weapon, which would hopefully help to assure that Krystal comes nowhere near this game ever in any capacity at all.

Mist could be a AT that heals the character. best use ever for her :lol .

oh, and Soren is alright, he's is ultra blunt and serious most of the times. I wouldn't like him as a character.
 

Zeed

Banned
EktorPR said:
Actually guys, I highly doubt we'll see another character from the Fire Emblem series...:/
Marth is still in, if that's what you're saying. How do I know? I visited NOA and got the information straight from inside sauce.
 

Scribble

Member
grandjedi6 said:
The big thing that makes Prime assets being in Brawl doubtful is that Samus doens't look anything like her Prime incarnations. Everyother series character is modeled after their latest game but Samus is modeled after Zero Mission and Fusion.

In what way doesn't Samus look like her Metroid Prime incarnation? Doesn't Samus in Brawl look exactly like the Power Suit Samus in Metroid Prime 1? Plus, the Zero Missionish design was in Corruption, IIRC.

NeonZ said:
2 Japan only characters? Melee had that, so it could happen again, I guess. However, isn't Takamaru another swordsman? Considering Ike's instant slash attack, which seems the kind of thing a cartoony/anime-ish samurai often gets, I think he won't be in as a playable character, though he probably will be an Assist Trophy.

Takamaru will probably be in. They made Samurai Goroh and Lyn Assist Trophies for a reason :D

And is Peach's Final Smash really from Super Princess Peach, btw? It's not the calm vibe, is it?


Two Fire Emblem reps are enough, IMO.
 
Scribble said:
In what way doesn't she look similar?

I don't have time to sort out an image comp, but just Google "Metroid Prime" images and compare to the Samus render on the Dojo. There are a number of differences in suit detail and proportions and the SSBB suit is definitely not a direct rip of the MP suit.
 

Zeed

Banned
Scribble said:
In what way doesn't she look similar?
You said "exactly".

Samus_Aran_250_264928c.jpg
VS
samus.jpg


1. Helmet - The lines, shape of the visor, and placement of tubes are different.
2. Shoulders - Almost completely different in design. There is next to no resemblance here.
3. Chest - Again, completely different. The Brawl design makes the lights look like eyes, and the chestplate look like a bird, fitting for a Chozo design. The Brawl team really nailed it, in my opinion.
4. Crotch - Brawl Samus has a bulge, Prime Samus doesn't.
5. Legs - No circle things on Brawl Samus' upper legs, different feet, not so many lights.

The gun is pretty much the only part of the model that looks like the Prime model. The rest has some Prime influence here and there but the team's clearly gone out of their way to make it different.
 

Zeed

Banned
RagnarokX said:
zms.jpg
samus.jpg

I think this shows it better. As you can see, the suits are identical.
Nice find, and you appear to be correct.

Scribble just got owned hardcore.

Sakurai hates the Prime series confirmed.
 

Scribble

Member
Zeed said:
The gun is pretty much the only part of the model that looks like the Prime model. The rest has some Prime influence here and there but the team's clearly gone out of their way to make it different.

Nice find, and you appear to be correct.

Scribble just got owned hardcore.

Sakurai hates the Prime series confirmed.

=P

The differences are definitely clear there -- yeah, it doesn't look exactly like the Prime model, but it's very similar. Now I'm thinking that people can't really use that as evidence to say that Sakurai is "snubbing Prime". Didn't Aonuma say that his Ganondorf and Sheik designs had to be tweaked to "fit into the Smash environment?"

And about the Norfair thing -- it hasn't even been announced on the Dojo.
 

ant1532

Banned
We talked about this a long time ago and we've known about the Zero Mission Suit since Samus was shown in her update...


This thread is going in circles. :lol
 

Zeed

Banned
Scribble said:
yeah, it doesn't look exactly like the Prime model, but it's very similar.
No, you missed the point of Ragnarok's comparison - there isn't ANY Prime influence here. It's 100% the Zero Mission design. 100% Zero Mission, 0% Prime.

Now I'm thinking that people can't really use that as evidence to say that Sakurai is "snubbing Prime".
You must have missed the latest Retro interview where they confessed that they haven't provided any assets to the Brawl team at all. That right there is all the evidence you need, and when combined with the fact that NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING from the Prime games has been shown...I think a reasonable assumption can be made (Sakurai hates Prime).
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Scribble said:
=P

The differences are definitely clear there -- yeah, it doesn't look exactly like the Prime model, but it's very similar. Now I'm thinking that people can't really use that as evidence to say that Sakurai is "snubbing Prime". Didn't Aonuma say that his Ganondorf and Sheik designs had to be tweaked to "fit into the Smash environment?"

And about the Norfair thing -- it hasn't even been announced on the Dojo.

Why can't we use that as evidence? Ganondorf and Sheik haven't been shown yet. And all the other characters and stages are from the latest game in the respective franchise, except Metroid. Sakurai isn't even going as far as putting in Mother 3 stuff despite the game being only released in Japan. The Prime series is being ignored, mark my word on it
 

Scribble

Member
Zeed said:
No, you missed the point of Ragnarok's comparison - there isn't ANY Prime influence here. It's 100% the Zero Mission design. 100% Zero Mission, 0% Prime.

Except that it ISN'T 100% the Zero Mission design. Stop getting excited.

k4v96a.png


Samus' Pelvis isn't sticking out. Sakurai hates Zero Mission CONFIRMED.
 

Zeed

Banned
Scribble said:
Except that it ISN'T 100% the Zero Mission design. Stop getting excited.

http://i23.tinypic.com/k4v96a.png[IMG]

Samus' Pelvis isn't sticking out. Sakurai hates Zero Mission CONFIRMED.[/QUOTE]
Even if we accept this as truth (and not as a result of posture), it still doesn't support your position whatsoever because the Prime design doesn't have a pelvis sticking out either (in fact, the Prime crotch-piece is completely smooth while the Zero Mission design is polygonal, like the Brawl model).

Again, NOTHING, not a single element of Prime has yet been shown, and it's a matter of record that Retro has provided Sakurai's team with NOTHING. If there's Prime material, Sakurai's built it from scratch, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
 

Twig

Banned
Zeed said:
Even if we accept this as truth (and not as a result of posture)
While I agree that Samus' Brawl design is very obviously based on the zero Mission design, there is no way you could possibly believe ZM Samus' crotch would bulge that much if she posed the same way. No way!

Even if you respond saying you do believe it's possible, I'll choose to not believe you on account of you're crazy!

Wait what nitpicking pshaw.
 

Zeed

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
While I agree that Samus' Brawl design is very obviously based on the zero Mission design, there is no way you could possibly believe ZM Samus' crotch would bulge that much if she posed the same way. No way!

Even if you respond saying you do believe it's possible, I'll choose to not believe you on account of you're crazy!
I'm not even going to argue this point because, as I said, it makes no difference whatsoever.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
perfectchaos007 said:
December 3rd Megaton is almost guaranteed. Its like make-up sex from Nintendo

It should be a gameplay video titles "Guess what you could've been playing. HAUHAUHAUHAU"
 

Zeed

Banned
perfectchaos007 said:
December 3rd Megaton is almost guaranteed. Its like make-up sex from Nintendo
Nothing less than a playable demo will placate the angry masses. I don't care if it's just two characters and one stage, I'll take it.
 
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