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YouTube Me Again! (Watch YouTube videos on GAF)

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Jasconius

Member
Can you try it with a different browser to see if it's not something else?

Also try this to troubleshoot:

- In Firefox open the console (SHIFT+CTRL+K). See if there's anything like "cannot send xhr" on the list.

- When you open a video, click on the ! to change your settings. Set it to never load descriptions, then refresh the page.

- Go to a video and try clicking on "Load description."

- Does that load descriptions? Otherwise look at the console to see if you get an error.


Also, click on the Network tab. Are there any requests to YouTube?

I'm sorry that I forgot to post before saying thank you for all of the troubleshooting help. For some reason the issue just resolved itself without me doing anything else shortly afterwards. ^^
 

Popstar

Member
Why haven't I seen this thread before?

Thank you for this! It works great.

Only problem I had was with Soundcloud. I'm using Safari without Flash installed and Soundcloud links cause player.swf to get downloaded to my computer. I've got a half dozen of them sitting in my trash.

I fixed it locally by changing line 1040 from this:
Code:
return [{type: 'application/x-shockwave-flash',
    src: 'https://p1.soundcloud.com/player.swf?show_comments=false&url=' + this.parent.data.uri},
    false];
to this:
Code:
return [{type: 'text/html',
    src: 'https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?show_comments=false&url=' + this.parent.data.uri},
    false];
so that I'm using the HTML5 Soundcloud player.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Cool, I was actually going to look for an HTML5 version of that link. I'll make that change for the next realease.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
I'm using Safari, as I've said probably before.

I've noticed that .webm's hosted by gfycat embed fine and dandy and play with no problem once I click them. But ones hosted by other sites like pomf and whatever that new one is people are using will just report and error. Is it not possible to fix this so all the sites work or is gfycat doing something else that the others don't?

Examples copied from other threads:

From the Animals with claws thread:
http://zippy.gfycat.com/AcademicVainGreendarnerdragonfly.webm
This one works fine. It's hosted on GfyCat and plays with no problem.

From a Football thread:
http://a.pomf.se/wkdost.webm
This one does not work at all. Just an error. I'd have to open it in a new tab to play it via QuickTime. It's hosted on Pomf.

From the Captain Toad thread:
http://webmup.com/QiiJU/vid.webm
This one doesn't work either. It's hosted by WebMup.

The other problem is that the first link, the one that works, shows up as a clickable thumbnail that I have to activate, but the ones that don't work expand themselves immediately and just show black rectangles with the controls and "Error" on them.

Is this a fault of the website or the codec they use? It sucks so much that people are moving towards GIF replacements that don't have full support by all browsers and may not ever. I don't even know if those new GifV files will work in Safari either. If this is a problem with the hosting sites then GAF should disallow all sites that don't work and only allow the ones that do. It's bad enough I can't view these at all in Mobile Safari.

Anyone else with Safari and this plugin want to confirm that only the first one works?
 
I'm using Safari, as I've said probably before.

I've noticed that .webm's hosted by gfycat embed fine and dandy and play with no problem once I click them. But ones hosted by other sites like pomf and whatever that new one is people are using will just report and error. Is it not possible to fix this so all the sites work or is gfycat doing something else that the others don't?

Examples copied from other threads:

From the Animals with claws thread:
http://zippy.gfycat.com/AcademicVainGreendarnerdragonfly.webm
This one works fine. It's hosted on GfyCat and plays with no problem.

From a Football thread:
http://a.pomf.se/wkdost.webm
This one does not work at all. Just an error. I'd have to open it in a new tab to play it via QuickTime. It's hosted on Pomf.

From the Captain Toad thread:
http://webmup.com/QiiJU/vid.webm
This one doesn't work either. It's hosted by WebMup.

The other problem is that the first link, the one that works, shows up as a clickable thumbnail that I have to activate, but the ones that don't work expand themselves immediately and just show black rectangles with the controls and "Error" on them.

Is this a fault of the website or the codec they use? It sucks so much that people are moving towards GIF replacements that don't have full support by all browsers and may not ever. I don't even know if those new GifV files will work in Safari either. If this is a problem with the hosting sites then GAF should disallow all sites that don't work and only allow the ones that do. It's bad enough I can't view these at all in Mobile Safari.

Anyone else with Safari and this plugin want to confirm that only the first one works?

captain toad one works fine for me but i'm on chrome

second one doesn't play though
 

Popstar

Member
I've noticed that .webm's hosted by gfycat embed fine and dandy and play with no problem once I click them. But ones hosted by other sites like pomf and whatever that new one is people are using will just report and error. Is it not possible to fix this so all the sites work or is gfycat doing something else that the others don't?
The ones from gfycat work because gfycat creates .mp4 versions of uploads in addition to .gif and .webm and serves the .mp4 versions to Safari.

Safari will use whatever codecs are installed on the system but unfortunately the Quicktime replacement in newer versions of OS X doesn't have a public API to add new codecs. So no .webm support.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
Then we need to stop using other sites. Only use GfyCat. Ban the rest. Or keep using GIFs. Actually I'm fine with just using GIFs. At least they play on my mobile cellular device if they do use more data.
 

NameGenerated

Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
Any ideas on why the new version would be getting stuck on all videos saying "Loading data" with white/red striped bar? I removed the old version before installing the new one today and now every video does that.
loadingdata.png


The videos play fine, it's just the descriptions that don't load.

EDIT: This is on Firefox 29

I still get this, in Chrome.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Then we need to stop using other sites. Only use GfyCat. Ban the rest. Or keep using GIFs. Actually I'm fine with just using GIFs. At least they play on my mobile cellular device if they do use more data.
All of those work fine on Firefox and Opera on Windows, which is why I wouldn't block them.

The thing about WebM is that it's a container format that can contain different versions of the Theora/VP CODEC. According to Wikipedia, VP9 is not supported at all by Safari. If anyone is to blame of the lack of support it's Apple in this case, since it really hates the Theora/VP formats. ;(


Chrome and Opera (both Blink browsers) have also recently started to crash on some VP videos, even though the previous browser versions worked just fine.

Example of crash-prone video.

Code:
http://a.pomf.se/zbqobs.webm

I have disabled "auto loading" the video in those browsers just in case.

I still get this, in Chrome.
Try changing the setting to never load descriptions. Then click on the links to load them.

Please read this post and see if you can find any messages in the browser console. For Chrome it's SHIFT+CTRL+I, then click the Console tab. Refresh the page and look for any info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=115248664&postcount=219
 

Schrade

Member
Yay! The latest Pale Moon (25.0.0) added VP9 support. No more broken webms.

(People should be using h.264 and mp4 instead of VP9/webm though... :p)

hateradio,

I've always had problems on my work computer using Pale Moon, GreaseMonkey and your script not giving me the YouTube descriptions.

It works perfectly fine at home using the same setup.

The console error gives me this when I click on the load description link:
Code:
[16:17:51.793] NS_ERROR_DOM_QUOTA_REACHED: Persistent storage maximum size reached @ file:///C:/DL/Profiles/Firefox/Work-Release/gm_scripts/YouTube_Me_Again!/YouTube_Me_Again!.user.js:99
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
All of those work fine on Firefox and Opera on Windows, which is why I wouldn't block them.

The thing about WebM is that it's a container format that can contain different versions of the Theora/VP CODEC. According to Wikipedia, VP9 is not supported at all by Safari. If anyone is to blame of the lack of support it's Apple in this case, since it really hates the Theora/VP formats. ;(
I had a feeling this was the problem. gfyCat is the only forward thinking of the three hosts and that sucks. Apple will never add support for these codecs. Maybe we can get lucky and someone will implement an OS X plugin to add support. Someone call the People behind that Safari thing that added features like favicons and other stuff until Yosemite and I can't remember their name and am on mobile right now. Maybe they can implement it.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
The console error gives me this when I click on the load description link:
Code:
[16:17:51.793] NS_ERROR_DOM_QUOTA_REACHED: Persistent storage maximum size reached @ file:///C:/DL/Profiles/Firefox/Work-Release/gm_scripts/YouTube_Me_Again!/YouTube_Me_Again!.user.js:99
Do you have local storage enabled? If you don't, it means that the script can't save any data (in this case cache the video data) to your computer.

Otherwise, it means that you have a lot of data already on there, so it can't write any more.

The script should automatically detect when a lot of data has been stored, in order to clear some of the old ones. However, if it's not saving any more you can clear it manually.

To check what's in your local storage, just open the developer console (SHIFT+CTRL+K), and type the following.

Code:
// returns a number, if it's 0 it means that nothing's stored
> localStorage.length

// will tell you how long the data is inside the ytma storage (it's a string in this case, so it will tell you the string's length)
> localStorage['ytma.4.1.dat'].length

// completely clear your local storage to make room for more
> localStorage.clear()

// or just clear out the YTMA stuff
> localStorage.removeItem('ytma.4.1.dat')



Pomf is just a file host, it doesn't convert the videos itself. Fellow gaffers/others have created those videos and put them on there.

Now that Imgur has added support for MP4 (under the GIFV initiative), I don't think people will use Pomf as much, but we'll see.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
Pomf is just a file host, it doesn't convert the videos itself. Fellow gaffers/others have created those videos and put them on there.

Now that Imgur has added support for MP4 (under the GIFV initiative), I don't think people will use Pomf as much, but we'll see.
If only we could do something about WebMup too. Hopefully it's a problem that sorts itself out. Unfortunately some people will avoid the H.264 versions that Safari will support and will go with the other codec versions for some silly reason. And Apple will probably never add support for them at all. Whether they use H.264 or not.

#TeamKeepUsingGIF
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Alright ladies and gentlemen of NeoGAF,

First, I have a new version of YTMA! up for testing (for GreaseMonkey/Tampermonkey users).

Second, Blink browsers (Chrome/Opera) no longer crash with some VP CODEC videos! So the Pomf.se blacklist has been lifted on Chrome 38+.

  • Imgur GIFV (WEBM/MP4) support !
  • Soundcloud now uses HTML5 player !
  • Chrome 37 black list has been removed for newer versions !
  • Players that open on scroll will no longer trigger the opening of players higher on the page (In other words, if you're scrolling from the bottom of the page, and you come about a video that opens when you're scrolling, videos above the current view it will not trigger, so as to keep the page at the same pixel height. It would change if videos/soundcloud opened above.)
  • Adds HTML5, Gfycat, Imgur icons on links
  • Improved Soundcloud and Gfycat URL matchers
  • Now uses Video tag instead of iFrame for Gfycat
  • Restructured code base to simplify creation of media controls
  • Restructured CSS
  • CSS improved for settings panel
  • Can now fetch JSON (AJAX) data from Gfycat

It also has a some console logging to see what happens when data is fetched from external servers (YT, Vimeo, Soundcloud, etc.) for people who may have issues with that.


Get YTMA! 5.9 and test it out.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
Awesome! Something you did fixed all three of the videos I posted above. Pretty cool.

Suggestion for this thread: Put an example of everything you support in the OT. I want to see what Safari supports and what it doesn't.

Also, put in options to disable each supported media type on a per type basis so if something doesn't work for me I can just disable it and not have an error message or screen.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Awesome! Something you did fixed all three of the videos I posted above. Pretty cool.

Suggestion for this thread: Put an example of everything you support in the OT. I want to see what Safari supports and what it doesn't.

Also, put in options to disable each supported media type on a per type basis so if something doesn't work for me I can just disable it and not have an error message or screen.
I actually do have an HTML page that I use to test which sites work and whatnot, so I guess I'll add those links to the OP once I release the new version.

As for blocking which types, what do you mean? Like blocking WebM or something?
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
I actually do have an HTML page that I use to test which sites work and whatnot, so I guess I'll add those links to the OP once I release the new version.

As for blocking which types, what do you mean? Like blocking WebM or something?
I just mean checkboxes to disable "Again!-ing" certain types just in case it doesn't work for me. I'd rather just see the link than a broken error message saying it's not working right. Of course I could test them all out if I had a sort of page with an example of all of them listed on it. :p I'd love to see if everything works in Safari. In the last version there was quite a few things that Safari wouldn't support with the script. Please do put the links in the OT. I really want to try all of the features of this thing and make sure I won't miss a thing. :D
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Well, they're just like five links, actually. One per site the script supports. So one for YT, Vine, Vimeo, etc. It's nothing complicated. I do duplicate HTML5 video links and separate them with vertical space, just to see what happens when the videos come in and out of the view port.

Really, it's just to see that I didn't mess something up while working on a new feature. I just meant that I'd put some of those in the OP for people to experience themselves.

I'll see what I can do about displaying broken items differently. Maybe I'll just strike out the source link (like so) as a small indication that it's broken. But that would be for the next update. :p
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
I have a pretty strange bug report for at least the Safari version.

YTMA! makes links to the media unclickable. What I mean is, for instance, the link to the YouTube video that your script is adding a video to becomes unclickable. I can only open it if I right click and "Open link" manually. At first I thought it was just blocking Command+Click for opening in a new tab, but it also blocks normal clicks. It's strange. Is this by design or a bug? Note that none of the previous versions had this bug.

Thanks!
 
Alright ladies and gentlemen of NeoGAF,

First, I have a new version of YTMA! up for testing (for GreaseMonkey/Tampermonkey users).

Second, Blink browsers (Chrome/Opera) no longer crash with some VP CODEC videos! So the Pomf.se blacklist has been lifted on Chrome 38+.

  • Imgur GIFV (WEBM/MP4) support !
  • Soundcloud now uses HTML5 player !
  • Chrome 37 black list has been removed for newer versions !
  • Players that open on scroll will no longer trigger the opening of players higher on the page (In other words, if you're scrolling from the bottom of the page, and you come about a video that opens when you're scrolling, videos above the current view it will not trigger, so as to keep the page at the same pixel height. It would change if videos/soundcloud opened above.)
  • Adds HTML5, Gfycat, Imgur icons on links
  • Improved Soundcloud and Gfycat URL matchers
  • Now uses Video tag instead of iFrame for Gfycat
  • Restructured code base to simplify creation of media controls
  • Restructured CSS
  • CSS improved for settings panel
  • Can now fetch JSON (AJAX) data from Gfycat

It also has a some console logging to see what happens when data is fetched from external servers (YT, Vimeo, Soundcloud, etc.) for people who may have issues with that.


Get YTMA! 5.9 and test it out.

Can I get an option to turn off the youtube functionality? I have an inline youtube extension that is fantastic.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
I have a pretty strange bug report for at least the Safari version.

YTMA! makes links to the media unclickable. What I mean is, for instance, the link to the YouTube video that your script is adding a video to becomes unclickable. I can only open it if I right click and "Open link" manually. At first I thought it was just blocking Command+Click for opening in a new tab, but it also blocks normal clicks. It's strange. Is this by design or a bug? Note that none of the previous versions had this bug.

Thanks!
I was actually thinking about that just last night. That I was checking too broadly for links. I've updated the test version to 5.9.1 which fixes that.

I'm getting "NETWORK_FAILED" when I try to install it for Chrome?
From where?

Can I get an option to turn off the youtube functionality? I have an inline youtube extension that is fantastic.
That kinda defeats the purpose. :p

But it is possible if you modify the source.

I think all you have to do is look for YTMA.DB and then somewhere in there there's a list of sites with URLs. Just hide (with two slashes before the item) the youtube entry.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
So I've noticed a trend of people linking to the URL containing .webm files instead of the .webm file itself which makes YTMA! attempt, but fail to load the video. Which totally sucks.

For example, this post right here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135392743&postcount=974

It is linking to the page the .webm is contained on instead of the .webm itself. So YTMA! doesn't work and it sucks.

Can this be modified to "fix" those URLs by exposing the .webm contained within and displaying that instead? Because this is a trend that really needs to stop.
 

Popstar

Member
So I've noticed a trend of people linking to the URL containing .webm files instead of the .webm file itself which makes YTMA! attempt, but fail to load the video. Which totally sucks.

For example, this post right here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135392743&postcount=974

It is linking to the page the .webm is contained on instead of the .webm itself. So YTMA! doesn't work and it sucks.

Can this be modified to "fix" those URLs by exposing the .webm contained within and displaying that instead? Because this is a trend that really needs to stop.
YTMA! works fine for me on that post. I'm using YTMA! version 5.1, and Safari 8 without Flash installed.
 

Schrade

Member
So I've noticed a trend of people linking to the URL containing .webm files instead of the .webm file itself which makes YTMA! attempt, but fail to load the video. Which totally sucks.

For example, this post right here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135392743&postcount=974

It is linking to the page the .webm is contained on instead of the .webm itself. So YTMA! doesn't work and it sucks.

Can this be modified to "fix" those URLs by exposing the .webm contained within and displaying that instead? Because this is a trend that really needs to stop.

That actually works just fine for me with the latest YTMA! When using YTMA! the video that is shown embedded here is an .mp4.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
YTMA! works fine for me on that post. I'm using YTMA! version 5.1, and Safari 8 without Flash installed.

That actually works just fine for me with the latest YTMA! When using YTMA! the video that is shown embedded here is an .mp4.
It's just sits at Loading for me in Safari 8. I do have Flash turned on because the internet is not ready to go Fleshless at all. But it shouldn't matter since it's supposed to be H.264/MPEG-4. But it won't load for me.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
I just tried it in Safari. For some reason it doesn't seem to ignore invalid links, so it just sticks to trying to "play" an XML file that Gfycat sends. It's pretty strange as none of the other browsers do that.
 

Rootbeer

Banned
This has greatly improved my GAF experience, thanks!

Soundcloud is not working for me though... here is a recent thead with soundcloud links:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=919765

Where the player should appear i instead see a message that says:

"`url` parameter is not a valid SoundCloud URL. Learn more about using SoundCloud players."

I'm using latest version a few posts up on Chrome dev v40 and I made sure this script is only listed once in my addons, I don't think i have anything else that uses soundcloud installed.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Can I default to HTML5 for youtube videos? I can when I'm on youtube, but YTMA seems to default to Flash even if I untick Flash in the settings.
 

Schrade

Member
This has greatly improved my GAF experience, thanks!

Soundcloud is not working for me though... here is a recent thead with soundcloud links:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=919765

Where the player should appear i instead see a message that says:

"`url` parameter is not a valid SoundCloud URL. Learn more about using SoundCloud players."

I'm using latest version a few posts up on Chrome dev v40 and I made sure this script is only listed once in my addons, I don't think i have anything else that uses soundcloud installed.

Every single one of those links works for me with the latest Pale Moon x64/GreaseMonkey.

Thanks for linking that btw... hearing the boosters gave me fucking chills. I love that sound.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Can I default to HTML5 for youtube videos? I can when I'm on youtube, but YTMA seems to default to Flash even if I untick Flash in the settings.
You can, and it should work, but the feature is a little weird. I think it usually works in Chrome, but not in other browsers for some reason.

This has greatly improved my GAF experience, thanks!

Soundcloud is not working for me though... here is a recent thead with soundcloud links:

"`url` parameter is not a valid SoundCloud URL. Learn more about using SoundCloud players."
I had attempted to "clean-up" SoundCloud links since some had given me errors, yet it appears that these playlist sets were being incorrectly modified. So I have made sure that they are ignored.


YTMA 5.9.3 Test Version (Install)

Changes:

  • Safari uses the old Gfycat code that relies on iFrames, since it doesn't work with the new method
  • SoundCloud now supports HTML5 playlists, with a larger frame given to them (Comment on this if it's good/bad)
  • Settings pane has been tweaked
 

Rootbeer

Banned
Hey hateradio,

Tested the new version. The soundcloud links in the previous post working perfectly now! I'll let you know if I run into anything else. Thanks for the speedy work!

The frame is big but I don't find it a problem at all. I'm on a rMBP 15 inch. I usually run GAF at 125% zoom due to how tiny everything is set here, and it's still not a problem for me.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Yeah, doesn't seem to work on Firefox sadly.
I just did some testing, first I tried to just "make" YT send me HTML5 player, but you probably already have that enabled.

Then I disabled Flash in the YTMA! settings (SHIFT+CTRL+Y on Windows).

However, it didn't do anything.

To really force it, however, I disabled Flash on Firefox and it started sending me WebM.

Once I enable Flash, it sends Flash so I don't know.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
I just did some testing, first I tried to just "make" YT send me HTML5 player, but you probably already have that enabled.

Then I disabled Flash in the YTMA! settings (SHIFT+CTRL+Y on Windows).

However, it didn't do anything.

To really force it, however, I disabled Flash on Firefox and it started sending me WebM.

Once I enable Flash, it sends Flash so I don't know.

Thanks for testing. It's alright if you can't fix it for now. I mostly want HTML5 because it's less resource-intensive on my netbook. Flash videos just slow down to a chug (as does my PC). Even 240p will play at 1fps, it's ridiculous.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Thanks for testing. It's alright if you can't fix it for now. I mostly want HTML5 because it's less resource-intensive on my netbook. Flash videos just slow down to a chug (as does my PC). Even 240p will play at 1fps, it's ridiculous.
You should just disable Flash then, at least on GAF.
 
I was actually thinking about that just last night. That I was checking too broadly for links. I've updated the test version to 5.9.1 which fixes that.


From where?


That kinda defeats the purpose. :p

But it is possible if you modify the source.

I think all you have to do is look for YTMA.DB and then somewhere in there there's a list of sites with URLs. Just hide (with two slashes before the item) the youtube entry.

I have no clue how to do that?

where would go to do that? Greasemonkey?
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Real shameless talk: I don't know how to do that. Besides, would that force HTML5 on GAF? I'm afraid it would just disable embedded Youtube videos altogether.
Update: Ignore this and try the new test version (5.9.4).

First you'll have to uncheck the Flash setting on the script, so click on the [!] button when you watch a video or click CTRL+SHIFT+Y. The next version of the script won't require this, as I'll try to detect if Flash is available from the get-go.

I think you can then use an extension that blocks Flash on certain websites, I think one is called FlashBlock.

Or to do it on the browser itself, you can do it one of these ways.

If you're on Firefox, you can go to your settings (CTRL+SHIFT+A) then go to the Plugins and change Flash to either "Always Ask" or "Never Active" which will disable it.

If you're on Chrome or Opera (15+) you can type chrome://plugins or opera://plugins in the address bar and disable Flash.

I have no clue how to do that?

where would go to do that? Greasemonkey?
If you're using Greasemonkey, you can edit the script by looking at the script list and Editing it. (SHIFT+CTRL+A) User Scripts -> Look for YouTube Me Again! and press the edit button.

If you're using Chrome you'd have to search for the extension's ID and then edit the JS file in that directory. I don't know if this works 100%.

How can I get this working on Safari in Yosemite? I've tried it with NinjaKit and a Javascript extension that allowed custom entries, but they don't consistently work.
I used NinjaKit to test it, but I don't really know of others.
 

Rootbeer

Banned
i've decided to simply disable flash in chrome. now that youtube is html5 and they have ironed out most of the issues to where it works perfectly most of the time i no longer need flash for anything. it just displays ads nothing else.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
i've decided to simply disable flash in chrome. now that youtube is html5 and they have ironed out most of the issues to where it works perfectly most of the time i no longer need flash for anything. it just displays ads nothing else.
That's what I noticed, too. Except for Hulu (which I have to use because of South Park), I don't think I use Flash for most anything.

The only issue I have found with the HTML5 player, since always, is that YT does not respect the quality setting.


* * *


For the new page:

Since I noticed that Flash will not work with 60FPS embeded videos, I looked and found that there is a possible way to "make" YT send the HTML5 player.

So far, it's working for me.

5.9.4 - Flash Killer (?)
 
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