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LTTP: Earthbound - Digital games can't stink (Mega-long OP)

Griss

Member
So I finally got around to playing Earthbound, having bought it on the VC when it came out a year ago. I beat it late last night, so there will be (mostly very mild) spoilers, but I'll mark them. Anyway, my impressions follow:

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Some games have a timeless quality, and lose nothing as the industry advances and our expectations of certain genres and the mechanics within change. Other games that are beloved are more a product of their time, and probably needed to be played when they were released for a person to fully understand just what the game meant to people, or how unique and groundbreaking it was. I can't help but feel like Earthbound is the latter kind of game in many ways. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy it, but it was flawed, far more so than I expected. I was charmed, but I was also bored just as often, and I can't ignore that. Let's break this thing down into pieces like Ness smashing up an Octobot with a baseball bat:

Setting
The setting of Earthbound is, I believe, the main factor that makes it so beloved. The moment you realise that you're a normal kid in a normal world rather than a fantasy wizard or orc-slaying warrior or what-have-you is so refreshing. When you get to Onett and realise the game will constantly skit more po-faced RPGs with constant humour and fun NPC dialogue it's easy to fall in love with this little world. You actively want to seek out every NPC because what they have to say is usually whimsical or humorous in some way. This alone puts Earthbound miles ahead of most RPGs.

Yes, the game does bring you to the classic desert / ice / fire levels eventually, but each has a special earthbound twist, and there are places you go in this game that are so unique that have no equivalent in almost any other RPG, like
Moonside or Magicant.
In particular,
Dungeon Man
is a piece of hilarious meta-commentary on game design that was about 15 years before it's time, perfectly executed. These places are pretty unforgettable, and Nintendo did a great job with the overall atmosphere of a normal american world tinged with a psychedelic strangeness, making everything feel just a little bit nostalgic but also a little bit unsettling.

Visuals / Music
Earthbound is incredibly basic looking for a 1995 SNES game. The sprites are simple, and there's a shocking lack of animation in pretty much all areas of the game, making things look a little dead and sterile while you wander the world. But it's hard to care too much about that because the art direction shines through, and the world of Earthbound is utterly charming. From the all-American towns and pizza parlours to the ludicrously inventive enemy designs (Dali's clock, really?!?), Earthbound has a style all of it's own, and it's one of its greatest strengths.

While the visuals are strong but dated, the music is utterly timeless, and was my favourite part of the game. This is one of the strongest soundtracks I've ever heard, and a huge amount of the considerable emotional appeal of the game comes from the music. Songs like Home Sweet Home, Onett, Twoson and Scaraba made me feel nostalgic for a game I'd never before played, and wistful for my childhood. I'd stay in area just to hear the songs loop. It's rare that a game's music gets its claws into me this much, but there was no way I wouldn't beat this game if only to hear all the music.

Gameplay
So far you'd think it was all roses, right? But a game is meant to be played, and here Earthbound starts to fall down. The battle system is weak, and ends up being very dull. Most of the time you simply mash the bash command. Early in the game you don't have enough PP to really use PSI abilities, once you do the range of useful attacking options is pretty much one or two per person, and a choice between 'hit one guy' or 'hit all guys'. There's little strategy involved. What's worse is the amount of random chance built into all battles. Everyone has a strong chance of missing attacks (worse if you're dumb enough to buy the wrong weapon), while the enemy AI is as dumb as an RNG and will constantly waste turns. It leads to situations where you can easily win one battle because the enemy wasted two turns and you hit him each time or lose because you missed and he decided to use a strong magic attack twice. You have no control over this, there's no strategy involved, no fun to it.

On top of that, there is a serious weakness in the real-time HP system. If a party member gets knocked out, it's a race to heal them. However you can never be as quick with your heals as the auto-battle system, leading to you relying on that system if you want to survive, and giving up your control of the game to, well, the game. The game can play itself faster and better than you can. On top of that, watching someone die because they took mortal damage after you comitted to a PSI attack with a long animation is very frustrating. Late in the game a
Starman's Ghost or Final Starman
will typically be able to one-shot
Paula and Jeff at the same time
with a single Starstorm, meaning constant healing is necessary. At this stage all the flaws in the battle system are seriously apparent and each one is just a chore as you push through to the end.

On top of that, the overworld gameplay is nothing special. There are no puzzles to solve, the dungeons are basic, and your characters are definitely on the slow side. A run button halfway through would have done wonders. This is exacerbated by the constant and annoying slowdown whenever more than two enemies are on the screen. Worse than this is the constant frustration of item management, as the game throws all manner of utterly useless items at characters who simply can't deal with them all. What about the difficulty curve? It's all over the place - the first two hours are by far the hardest in the game, Threed is a nightmare and then you won't be challenged again for the rest of the game until the final half-hour or so.

All of these issues combined with the dull battle system makes actually playing Earthbound a bit of a chore at times. Take the setting and music away and I just don't see how anyone can claim that the core 'game' here, the 'rules of play', are anything but sub-standard. It feels like they were considered less important than all of the clever moments and commentary. It feels like a game designed by a comedian, philosopher or novelist rather than by a game designer, which is something I never expected of Nintendo. I've not heard of the Director, Itoi, since (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't look him up), so I suspect Nintendo might have come to the same conclusion as me. Brilliantly creative mind, but not a game systems designer.

Story / Characters
But so what, right? Lots of JRPGs have dated and mediocre gameplay saved by an epic story, and frankly I was expecting Earthbound to be exactly that. The problem is that that story... isn't there. There's actually no story to talk about. I was pretty shocked at this. There's a bit of exposition in the beginning, but then Ness just travels the world for seemingly no real reason, with no 'story beats' to keep the main plot ticking over. There's no urgency to the action, no clarity as to what's going on or why.
Who is Giygas? Why does he destroy the world in the future? Is he behind the strange actions of people and various problems towns are having? It didn't seem so. What's with the pregame image of spaceships attacking Earth? Never happens. Why is Ness the chosen one? Why is Ness collecting music? Why is Giygas letting him?
Worst is the treatment of the actually present bad guy, Pokey. He appears maybe 3 times, and his motivations and actions are completely vague. Is he a brat? A bad person? Is he mind-controlled? I was legit shook
when he turned up out of nowhere during the final battle. I mean, what? I had him pegged as a comic-relief rival character.

The player characters are another issue. I actually liked them less at the end of the game than the start, because by then I realised that they aren't characters at all, just empty vessels drawn in the broadest strokes. You've got memorable characters like "Boy" (brave, strong, the chosen hero!), "Girl" (physically weak, but mentally strong! gets kidnapped! twice!), "Nerd" (timid but useful! relies on his more powerful friends!), and "Foreigner" (wacky and weird! can't eat normal food or use our items!) There was just nothing to them, and no reason to care about any of them. You know who I ended up caring about more than anyone? Apple Kid. Because he was a cool guy and had the most lines. When Apple Kid is your standout character (along with Bubblegum Monkey and your dog, for christsakes) then you've messed up somewhere.

People make
the final Giygas fight
out to be something very special, but it wasn't for me. I was ready for the game to end, and lucked into figuring out how to beat him very quickly.
I was disappointed because at first I thought I'd stumbled on the most amazing Easter Egg ever, rather than the solution.
The one place Earthbound nails the story, though, is the 'Return of the Hero' phase of the classic hero story.
Getting to return home and wander the world after the final battle was really surprisingly emotional. I like that a lot, more games should do it.

Conclusion
Most games are mediocre and forgettable. Many are worse than average in all respects. Many great games are lots of fun and make you think but can't make you feel. Many really fun games to actually play are ultimately forgettable for whatever reason.

So what to make of a game that wasn't much fun, didn't challenge me or make me think, but DID make me feel, and WAS unforgettable? How do you judge a game like that? I just don't think I can write off the 'game' part as unimportant as others obviously do when judging Earthbound. I can't separate the systems from the setting. I was bored too often. The story let me down. Yes, I also loved visiting a new, wacky town and chatting to people while listening to music. That's not quite enough, not on its own, to make a game great. The interactivity of Earthbound was its weakest point, and when it's a video game in question that's got to cost it points. As such I often felt like the this wonderful and inventive world would have been better off as an animated movie.

So, Earthbound. It's a classic, alright. A game I won't forget. Does it stink? No.
You can't scratch and sniff the Gamepad, after all.
But it's a mediocre game, and that's a shame.
 
I never got to experience Earthbound first time around, as a PAL gamer it was a real hassle getting to play it at all and I didn't have the money to start importing stuff.

Recently started playing it on VC myself, and I agree with your assessment. The difficulty is truly all over the place, but the charm makes it worth pressing on.

Really annoying early on when you keep missing attacks and the enemies keep thwaccckking you for massive damage.
 

antitrop

Member
It's been too long since the last time I played EarthBound, but it's absolutely one of my 3 favorite games ever made and playing it for the first time through was a magical experience that changed my life.
 

Griss

Member
It's been too long since the last time I played EarthBound, but it's absolutely one of my 3 favorite games ever made and playing it for the first time through was a magical experience that changed my life.

I get that this is the take on Earthbound by its legions of passionate fans, and I have no issue with that. But I'd just wonder - would you defend its battle system and general gameplay? Or is the setting / music everything to you?
 

Choomp

Banned
EarthBound's the best. I played it again over the Summer and it's probably one of my favorite games.
 

antitrop

Member
I get that this is the take on Earthbound by its legions of passionate fans, and I have no issue with that. But I'd just wonder - would you defend its battle system and general gameplay? Or is the setting / music everything to you?

I remember giving my more detailed thoughts on EarthBound's Dragon Quest-ripoff battle system in a different LTTP thread a few months ago.

I basically defended it by saying that it allows you to use your imagination, since there is practically no animation and lots of text. It fits with the theme of the game, in that regard.

Would EarthBound be a better game with a more complex and interesting combat system? Sure would!

But I think what it has is perfectly serviceable. It's definitely painfully slow, though. I can't replay the game without an emulator and a fast forward feature, these days.
 
I get that this is the take on Earthbound by its legions of passionate fans, and I have no issue with that. But I'd just wonder - would you defend its battle system and general gameplay? Or is the setting / music everything to you?
Not really, but that's because the battle system has never really been what makes Mother 2 special. It's a serviceable, Dragon Warrior style battle system that hasn't really aged that well, but it does the trick while you enjoy the characters and setting. It doesn't make it a mediocre game in the slightest, in my opinion.
 
Such a great OP and I totally agree. These sort of points in another yet similar way can be applied to Xenogears as well. These kind of games were much better when our tolerances were different. However, if these kinds of games make a strong impact on a person, they can see beyond the issues - it's pretty amazing, I guess that's the magic of games.
 

antitrop

Member
Such a great OP and I totally agree. These sort of points in another yet similar way can be applied to Xenogears as well. These kind of games were much better when our tolerances were different. However, if these kinds of games make a strong impact on a person, they can see beyond the issues - it's pretty amazing, I guess that's the magic of games.

I think it's more the magic of childhood impressionism.

EarthBound connected with my adventurous 13 year-old self in the same way that Pokemon did.
 
I loved the game, be it the gameplay or the setting. I never used the auto-battle system because i really liked the combat system. I thought i would hate it, but the real time health system, the skills, items and enemies. i really liked it. A shame that you didn't. I don't think it's a mediocre game, rather and excellent one, that far exceeded my expectations when playing it
 

Griss

Member
I remember giving my more detailed thoughts on EarthBound's Dragon Quest-ripoff battle system in a different LTTP thread a few months ago.

I basically defended it by saying that it allows you to use your imagination, since there is practically no animation and lots of text. It fits with the theme of the game, in that regard.

Would EarthBound be a better game with a more complex and interesting combat system? Sure would!

But I think what it has is perfectly serviceable. It's definitely painfully slow, though. I can't replay the game without an emulator and a fast forward feature, these days.

Okay, cool. I imagine that playing it as a kid and using your imagination is much, much different than playing as a semi-cynical adult, and I hadn't considered that when judging the game. The bolded is one hell of a qualifier for such a supposedly great game, though. I'd agree with you, though. If I was ever going to replay the game that's a feature I'd need.

Not really, but that's because the battle system has never really been what makes Mother 2 special. It's a serviceable, Dragon Warrior style battle system that hasn't really aged that well, but it does the trick while you enjoy the characters and setting. It doesn't make it a mediocre game in the slightest, in my opinion.

Okay, that's fair. I guess we see the game in the same way then.
 

sonto340

Member
Find whatever legal means you can to play Mother 3.
It answers a number of your complaints, such as more tangible story beats and a more involved and active battle system.
 

Lothar

Banned
I'm curious what you think of Dragon Quest games. That's another game where the characters usually aren't important. In DQ3, you buy your party members in a shop. The story is what happens in the world and the towns. Your characters are just there to observe it and set it right. See, I don't see it as a problem that you liked Apple Kid more than the main characters. Ness is you, your friends are just there to help you. The story is the adventure.

You should play Mother 3 now. It has a story that's actually about the characters. I think that might be more of what you want.
 
Such a great OP and I totally agree. These sort of points in another yet similar way can be applied to Xenogears as well. These kind of games were much better when our tolerances were different. However, if these kinds of games make a strong impact on a person, they can see beyond the issues - it's pretty amazing, I guess that's the magic of games.
I played Xenogears for the first time way after it came out, though it wasn't that much later I was just begging for the ability to skim through dialogue lol
Okay, that's fair. I guess we see the game in the same way then.
Yeah, it's not like I can't see the flaws in the game, I definitely do, but I can easily overlook them.

The first time I saw that big-ass, weird-ass box with the golden spiky Starman is something I'll never forget.
 

Griss

Member
Find whatever legal means you can to play Mother 3.
It answers a number of your complaints, such as more tangible story beats and a more involved and active battle system.

I was going to ask if I should play Mother 3. If it's more of the same as Earthbound I wouldn't be interested. If the gameplay is vastly improved then I certainly would. I need a stronger story to drag me through a long game like this. It took me 23 hours to beat - that's a long time for a me as a grown man.

I'm curious what you think of Dragon Quest games. That's another game where the characters usually aren't important. In DQ3, you buy your party members in a shop. The story is what happens in the world and the towns. Your characters are just there to observe it and set it right. See, I don't see it as a problem that you liked Apple Kid more than the main characters. Ness is you, your friends are just there to help you. The story is the adventure.

You should play Mother 3 now. It has a story that's actually about the characters. I think that might be more of what you want.

I strongly dislike the Dragon Quest games I've played and most JRPGs in general. As for DQ, there's usually not enough story, barebones characters, mechanics too basic, too slow and long. Didn't put that in the OP as it would've tainted my opinion on the game. I did feel like the mechanics in, say, DQ9 were at least pretty competent, and far better than something like earthbound. I also didn't make any mental connection between DQ and Earthbound until you said it.
 

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Earthbound has a lot of charm, from the random quirks of the townsfolk to its bright colourful environment, a photographer who takes photo of your journey, and interesting twist to JRPG convention, like using pizza or bread to heal rather than potion or healing herbs to recover life points. And the music was superb.

I do agree the plot, characters and battle system was just alright, everything else was just crazy good. I can admire its minimalistic story-telling in exchange for a whimsical and humorous adventure.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I love Earthbound - my favorite game of all time - but I really appreciate seeing alternate viewpoints like this, especially when they're laid out in such extensive detail. I learn something from stuff like this, since I already know what I like. So it's cool to see how people on the other side of certain coins think.

Reading through it, I'd of course disagree with a lot of the complaints - I may have time to go into more detail later - but I do want to take specific umbrage with two points.

What's worse is the amount of random chance built into all battles. Everyone has a strong chance of missing attacks (worse if you're dumb enough to buy the wrong weapon), while the enemy AI is as dumb as an RNG and will constantly waste turns. It leads to situations where you can easily win one battle because the enemy wasted two turns and you hit him each time or lose because you missed and he decided to use a strong magic attack twice. You have no control over this, there's no strategy involved, no fun to it.

This is a preferential thing, but it's not actually bad game design. There are beloved games out there with infinitely worse randomized elements, but it is often in those random elements that people actually find the engaging gameplay. Because it's a lot like the simple fun on betting dice. You know in life, things fail. You have to try to compensate for those failures and win anyway. That's not to say it can't be "too much" (as it clearly was for you), but just to say that the randomness as described here can be flipped and looked at from an entirely positive view as well.

I thought the random elements added tension and added a slight level of flexibility in my game plans which mixed things up, kept me on my feet. On top of that the way the enemies often randomly waste time can be hilarious, which to me added to the tonal strength of the game. I loved it.

Story / Characters
But so what, right? Lots of JRPGs have dated and mediocre gameplay saved by an epic story, and frankly I was expecting Earthbound to be exactly that.
The problem is that that story... isn't there. There's actually no story to talk about. I was pretty shocked at this. There's a bit of exposition in the beginning, but then Ness just travels the world for seemingly no real reason, with no 'story beats' to keep the main plot ticking over. There's no urgency to the action, no clarity as to what's going on or why. Who is Giygas? Why does he destroy the world in the future? Is he behind the strange actions of people and various problems towns are having? It didn't seem so. What's with the pregame image of spaceships attacking Earth? Never happens. Why is Ness the chosen one? Why is Ness collecting music? Why is Giygas letting him? Worst is the treatment of the actually present bad guy, Pokey. He appears maybe 3 times, and his motivations and actions are completely vague. Is he a brat? A bad person? Is he mind-controlled? I was legit shook when he turned up out of nowhere during the final battle. I mean, what? I had him pegged as a comic-relief rival character.

This is the biggest issue I have, because it does display something of a great misunderstanding to what Earthbound is.

Earthbound is partly a parody of the classic RPGs that were popular of the day, so a lot of the story focus is around making fun of the conventions used in the genre and the silliness of a lot of its approaches. But, more than that, Earthbound is not about the minutiae of its plot details, which is what you got caught up on. Which is perfectly fine. Some people need really complex story beats and need these insane plot twists which usually make me roll my eyes, but others love it.

But the important thing, and what you seem to have missed - and I could be wrong, granted - is what the story is actually about. Because it's not about Pokey. It's not about Apple Kid, or Paul, Jeff or Poo, although they provide context for what the game is about. Because from the smallest detail of the game to the largest strokes, the game is about one simple theme: it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. And it's also about where you came from. What do you learn about yourself? What is important? The game inexorably focuses on a simple answer: your friends and your family. Home is what matters. It doesn't matter that you're fighting intergalactic aliens. Doesn't matter you cleared a town out of zombies. Doesn't matter that you went and fought bosses under Stonehedge.

What matters is that after that, if you don't want to get homesick you're going to make sure your Mom is OK. Because this is a kid, and he's far away from home... and he can't forget what is important.

The way the game is constantly taking photos of your trip again reinforces the theme of "It's about the journey, not the destination." You remember what you learn, but you don't forget where you came from. When you don't call home, you get a status element for it. To order Pizza, you have to keep in contact with your sister, who loves you. When you need to save your game, you talk to your father.

EVEN your journey itself is meant to remind you of where you came from. Though parodying the standard "FIND EIGHT CRYSTALS" or whatever trope from traditional jRPGs, the sound stone points actually have great thematic significance. Because what happens at each one? You recall the simplest, most basic memories of a childhood gone by. Nostalgic little bits of whimsy that remind you - and the player - of how far you've come, and what you're really here for. You make new friends and you have to grow up, and you will become your own person. But how did you get here? Your home. Your family.

When you collect all the sound stones, you're greeted with one of the most beautifully nuanced and effective scenes in an jRPG I can think of. It's so simple, such a stark contrast to the overbearing, unsubtle "punch you in the face with it" themes of other RPGs, and shows immediately the huge gap in writing talent between those who worked on this game and those who worked on other RPG stories.

You walk up a cliff, in black and white with bits of red color. There is your home. There is your family. And what do you see there? Some huge plot twist? Some massive mind blowing revelation? No. Because that's not what this is about. What you see is the most pitch perfect reflection of a Mother's love that has been depicted in a game.

Before you lies a cradle, with you in it. It's rocking back and forth, and we are to imagine his mother and father sitting there looking lovingly over their new child. They put his distinctive red cap on him, and then they simply share a beautifully powerful wish for their kid.

"This baby will grow up to be a hard worker just like you.
I don't think he needs to be rich or famous... but I want him to be a thoughtful, strong boy."

Is there any more powerful statement of a mother and father's love than this? Everyone is on this journey, trying to save the world or something... but the Mother doesn't need her boy to be famous or rich, she basically just wants him to be happy and strong. And Ness doesn't need to wait to defeat Giygas to have his reward; he already has it. It's waiting for him back at home.
 

antitrop

Member
I was waiting for that Amir0x post.

EarthBound is definitely a game of themes, more than it is concerned with telling a detailed plot.

-Friendship, family, and relationships
-Exploration in fantastical, but relatable environments
-Music and harmony
-Faith (not necessarily religion)
-Courage and the belief in yourself
-Imagination and the subconscious
 

Real Hero

Member
I was waiting for that Amir0x post.

EarthBound is definitely a game of themes, more than it is concerned with telling a detailed plot.

-Friendship, family, and relationships
-Exploration in fantastical, but relatable environments
-Music and harmony
-Faith (not necessarily religion)
-Courage and the belief in yourself
-Imagination and the subconscious
+ it is really funny
 

Dryk

Member
I played through it a few months ago and I didn't really find the battle system to be all that different to other systems of the era. Sure it hasn't aged well, but that's 90s RPG combat for you.
 

antitrop

Member
I played through it a few months ago and I didn't really find the battle system to be all that different to other systems of the era. Sure it hasn't aged well, but that's 90s RPG combat for you.

Eh, EarthBound came out around the same time as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. The battle systems in those two games are still as snappy and exciting in 2014 as they were in 1995, at least for me.
 

Griss

Member
I love Earthbound - my favorite game of all time - but I really appreciate seeing alternate viewpoints like this, especially when they're laid out in such extensive detail. I learn something from stuff like this, since I already know what I like. So it's cool to see how people on the other side of certain coins think.

Reading through it, I'd of course disagree with a lot of the complaints - I may have time to go into more detail later - but I do want to take specific umbrage with two points.

*snip*

That's a super post, Amir0x. The kind of defense of the game I was hoping for. Please note that I did enjoy the game, at times hugely so. There were long stretches where I was having lots of fun, and enjoying the journey. But as I said, I couldn't ignore the other thoughts I was having as well.

On your point regarding randomness - I agree with you, actually. Whatever fun WAS in the battle system was probably there because of having to deal with random chance. Like rolling dice, there certainly is an element of fun to this. I just wish the battles had been tactical enough that this wasn't what they needed to rely on to keep it interesting, if you get me.

This is the biggest issue I have, because it does display something of a great misunderstanding to what Earthbound is.

Earthbound is partly a parody of the classic RPGs that were popular of the day, so a lot of the story focus is around making fun of the conventions used in the genre and the silliness of a lot of its approaches. But, more than that, Earthbound is not about the minutiae of its plot details, which is what you got caught up on. Which is perfectly fine. Some people need really complex story beats and need these insane plot twists which usually make me roll my eyes, but others love it.

See, I'd say that making fun of settings or conventions of RPGs goes under 'tone', 'setting', or 'atmosphere', but not 'story'. I don't need an epic tale, I really don't. I don't need plot minutae. Most Zelda games give me enough to go with, and they don't have much by way of story either. I just need enough context that I feel like what I'm doing is meaningful for very concrete reasons, and that my quest makes sense in the context of the world and who my characters are. At a minimum, I need to know who I'm fighting, his motivations (even if he doesn't have any - tell me), and why.

Regarding your point about family being what is important - that theme certainly shone through to me, and I loved it. I didn't touch on the overarching themes of the game, and maybe I should have. They're very obvious and very strong. The homesickness Ness can get, calling up your dad to let him know what you've been doing (thus 'saving' what you've done), calling your sister... It was very, very clever. As I said, it's a clever game.

I'd love to see a sequel, because if you could bottle this setting, these themes, and this world, and add to that a more modern set of gameplay systems, from world traversal to battling to item management, you just might have the greatest game of all time.

Eh, EarthBound came out around the same time as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. The battle systems in those two games are still as snappy and exciting in 2014 as they were in 1995, at least for me.

Just so happens that these were the two games I had as my reference for battle systems when I went into Earthbound. As you say, I find those other systems still quite engaging, and Earthbound fell far short of them. Just goes to show, though - I never beat those two games, whereas my love of the 'feel' of Earthbound pulled me through to the end of it.
 

Coreda

Member
Is there any more powerful statement of a mother and father's love than this? Everyone is on this journey, trying to save the world or something... but the Mother doesn't need her boy to be famous or rich, she basically just wants him to be happy and strong. And Ness doesn't need to wait to defeat Giygas to have his reward; he already has it. It's waiting for him back at home.

What a beautiful write up.
 

antitrop

Member
Just so happens that these were the two games I had as my reference for battle systems when I went into Earthbound. As you say, I find those other systems still quite engaging, and Earthbound fell far short of them. Just goes to show, though - I never beat those two games, whereas my love of the 'feel' of Earthbound pulled me through to the end of it.
Chrono Trigger would be one of the two games that I like more than EarthBound, I don't know how you couldn't bring yourself to the end of that one. CT is one of the only games where every time I replay it, it feels like the first time.
 
In regards to your complaints about Giygas having no real motivation or reasoning, bear in mind that you are playing a sequel. That said, I like your viewpoint on it. No way in hell do I agree with it, but still. I'd love to hear your opinion of Mother 3.
 

Griss

Member
Chrono Trigger would be one of the two games that I like more than EarthBound, I don't know how you couldn't bring yourself to the end of that one. CT is one of the only games where every time I replay it, it feels like the first time.

I'll be fair - I've never beaten CT because life has gotten in the way every time. That happens with long games sometimes. Not an indictment of the game at all. I'd love to finish both those games someday, but we're at the stage where I'd probably have to start over.

Actually, that's a point I wanted to make about Earthbound. The pacing between areas and overall length of the game are both great, and massively better than most JRPGs. If there's not going to be much story, there's no reason to make a game 80 hours long. Earthbound makes all the points it needs to make and tells all the jokes it has in 23 hours. It's a long time for me as an adult with responsibilities, but not for a typical JRPG. Also, you rarely got stuck in one place for too long. (With the exception of Threed - my least favourite part of the game.)

In regards to your complaints about Giygas having no real motivation or reasoning, bear in mind that you are playing a sequel. That said, I like your viewpoint on it. No way in hell do I agree with it, but still. I'd love to hear your opinion of Mother 3.

Uh, I was under the impression that Mother and Earthbound were ultimately separate stories, and that Earthbound was more of a 'super' version of Mother, with similar characters, music and story. Is that incorrect?
 

antitrop

Member
Uh, I was under the impression that Mother and Earthbound were ultimately separate stories, and that Earthbound was more of a 'super' version of Mother, with similar characters, music and story. Is that incorrect?

Even though the main character of Mother may look like Ness, his name is actually Ninten. They are seperate storylines and characters, but Mother 2 is essentially extremely similar to 1. They step on each other's toes, a lot.

You want to talk about games that don't hold up, Mother 1 would be a perfect example. I played through it in 1999 after EarthBound and found it tedious. I couldn't even finish it, but I played enough of it to "get the point".
 
So when complaints about lack of animation came about, I thought I was smelling something bad. But when I read this:

But a game is meant to be played, and here Earthbound starts to fall down. The battle system is weak, and ends up being very dull. Most of the time you simply mash the bash command.

and this:
On top of that, the overworld gameplay is nothing special. There are no puzzles to solve, the dungeons are basic, and your characters are definitely on the slow side.

The problem is that that story... isn't there. There's actually no story to talk about.

But it's a mediocre game, and that's a shame.

I kept rolling my eyes until the end. Luckily Amir0x stepped in. If I manage to not starve until lunch I think I'll elaborate on some complaints that Ami hasn't adressed yet. If he doesn't beat me to it, I mean.
 
Uh, I was under the impression that Mother and Earthbound were ultimately separate stories, and that Earthbound was more of a 'super' version of Mother, with similar characters, music and story. Is that incorrect?
Yes. Mother is a prequel to Earthbound. They have similarities but plot-wise they're different and exist in the same world.
 
Interesting, I got it off the VC when it went on sale over the summer and shortly after put it on the backburner when I reached Threed.
I want to like the game, it has this unique wittiness to it from standard NPC dialogue to the foes you face that spurs me onwards yet the gameplay itself just isn't engaging me with the wildest early game difficulty curve I've ever endured.
If I have any desire to carry it on it's to see what weird and wacky locales are in store next and see where the journey heads, unfortunately the battle system isn't doing much to motivate me to return which feels more like an aspect I endure as opposed to enjoy in order to reach the good stuff.

Though it helps to know from the OP that Threed may potentially one of the more notable hurdles in the game, I got whisked off there before grinding up some levels for Paula making this place a slog, actually that's really the main problem I have right now, due to the slow grindy progression in these early stages it has felt just like that, a slog, well it's at least a charming slog.

For what it's worth I played and beat Mother 3 and that one I did enjoy even if it shares some issues present here, it's a shame I can't enjoy Earthbound nearly as much, at least so far.
 

woopWOOP

Member
I'll admit that when playing through the game the first time about more than a decade ago (the *cough*, emulator way) I got bored once or twice and stopped playing it for a few months whenever I got stuck. Took me a year+ to finish it. After finishing it though I felt really satisfied with the game. I absolutely adored the game's setting and I guess the long time it took me to finish it made it more 'epic' in my mind.

I adored it so much I spent $200+/- to import a US SNES and a copy of Earthbound years later just to play through it again the legit way. Loved every minute of it then.
 

Gsnap

Member
I enjoy the battle system, but not for the combat itself. This type of system facilitates the quirky charm of the game.

1. The game couldn't be real time. Or I suppose, shouldn't. Like most RPGs, the game is not about one character. It's about the whole party, and the best way to make members of the party feel more equal is a turn-based system. You get to play as every character at once. And some characters fit better in certain roles. This is important to make the player feel like Ness isn't the most important character, and that everyone is just as important. With a real time system, you'd only play as one character, or one character at a time, which dilutes those feelings.

2. The text and visual indicators of the battles are important. Part of the charm of the game is the quirky text that you'll see in battle. From the goofy status effects, to all the goofy things the enemies can do. I don't think this would come across as well in anything other than a turn-based system. The visuals of the battle are fun. It's nice to see a larger and more detailed picture of the enemy you're fighting, and the groovy, lava-lamp-esque background coupled with the attack animations give the game an other-worldly, psychedelic charm.

Now, having said that, could the turn based system itself be a little more involved and complex? Yes, it could have. Games like Mario and Luigi which have more active things for you to do within turn-based systems would be a good place to start. But outside of that, I think the battle system is good in how it compliments what the game is trying to get across.
 

LaneDS

Member
Good write-up. I think the game, for me, is the more than the sum of its parts but I do recognize part of that probably stems from my nostalgia and emotional attachment to the game.

I also agree with those suggesting you try Mother 3. I don't think you're going to play it and love it, but it does have a more engaging battle system and more emphasis on story. I think I prefer Earthbound over Mother 3 though, despite those things. Can't really talk more about it and I'd encourage you to play it before parts of Mother 3 are spoiled for you.
 

Anustart

Member
Played it and loved it as a kid, can't go back though. The game just isn't good enough for me to slog through it.
 
Uh, I was under the impression that Mother and Earthbound were ultimately separate stories, and that Earthbound was more of a 'super' version of Mother, with similar characters, music and story. Is that incorrect?

Nope, they all take place in order. There is a significant time gap between the three games, though, and they're generally not connected stories asides from a few recurring elements (I'll not mention the main recurring element, as it'd possibly spoil the third game).

Btw, individually, the games are great. As a trilogy, they're even better.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Bumping this quite recent thread since I just started playing ths game five minutes ago. Have been waiting for this game for 20 years now, and finally got a copy today.

Anyways, as a player of most 16-bits jrpgs, I tend to very early start checking everywhere for secrets, but this game is a bit annoying with that, as you need to open a menu and then press check, making it an extra step to do. So my first question is just - is it worth it to check every table and window and cabinet just like in Final Fantasy-games? Or should I just drop this idea?
 

Azih

Member
Played a long time ago and the battle system is one that I enjoyed. Looking back on it it wasn't great tactically or anything and it's the most basic part of the game, but the rolling HP meter introduced some fun wrinkles especially when you're fighting the exploding trees and having low level enemies run away from you was a nice touch as well. I wouldn't disagree that it was the weakest part of the game (other than the great trippy combat music some of which is STILL stuck in my head which causes me flashbacks to the psychedlic backgrounds... fun times!). But it's solid enough to get the job done and the game's conceit of speaking to the player rather than speaking about the characters resonated well with me. The coffee sequences were lovely and the ending credits were moving because, while the player characters might have been under developed, the NPCs and the world certainly weren't). And if the ending sequence is emotionally satisfying then I'd say the game's story did its job.
 
Going back to Earthbound's battle system was strange. Perhaps Golden Sun's battles spoiled me. A lot. But I do like that once you are powerful enough, you just one-shot enemies in the overworld.
 
Was about to make my own littl thread. Need help

killed the alien the dept. store in four side. He said something about Paula and Monotoli or however you spell it. What do next?
 

andymcc

Banned
Was about to make my own littl thread. Need help

killed the alien the dept. store in four side. He said something about Paula and Monotoli or however you spell it. What do next?

There is a strategy guide in the digital manual! I'd suggest trying it out because it's written in a way that is sort of interesting and fun too!
 

Mistle

Member
I played this for the first time this year and was blown away by it. Absolutely incredible game, I couldn't put it down. And it kept surprising me in ways that games now days just don't seem to do. It was really out there and brave. Not to mention hilarious.

Naturally, I went on to Mother 3 afterwards. Been slowly going through it for months now, good game but disappointingly generic after Earthbound. Almost feels like the type of game Earthbound was parodying (but not quite).
 
There is a strategy guide in the digital manual! I'd suggest trying it out because it's written in a way that is sort of interesting and fun too!
I'm a bit funny looking at guides as something might get revealed more than I would want to read.

Give me vague hints.
 
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