I played this for the first time this year and was blown away by it. Absolutely incredible game, I couldn't put it down. And it kept surprising me in ways that games now days just don't seem to do. It was really out there and brave. Not to mention hilarious.
Naturally, I went on to Mother 3 afterwards. Been slowly going through it for months now, good game but disappointingly generic after Earthbound. Almost feels like the type of game Earthbound was parodying (but not quite).
I am not sure how you can call Mother 3 generic. But if you want an in-depth analysis of just how amazing Mother 3's approach to story is, I can share my thoughts too. Mother 3 does some shockingly complex exploration of particular themes. it's really a rousing success, just in a different way from Earthbound
I played all three games for the first time this past year and I have never been more blown away by a series before.
While Mother 1 is not the best game it still sets up the rest of the trilogy well if you can force yourself through it. Meanwhile Earthbound and Mother 3 are most likely my number 2 and number 1 games of all time respectively.
I actually enjoyed the battle system in Earthbound but I can see where you find it lackluster. Thankfully Mother 3 fixes that, between the rhythym based combat and the fact that buffs and debuffs matter hugely it becomes much more interesting.
I really don't understand how you didn't love the last boss battle in Earthbound though, the moment when
you're the one who answers their prayers and saves the day
made me tear up and is one of the greatest final battle moments in gaming history IMO.
Btw Amir0x, there is a lot of times I don't agree with you, but your opinions and writings on the Mother series have always impressed me, thanks for expressing what I wish I could about this series.
Amir0x saving the day with that magnificent post, nailed pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
I have this belief that there are some games that can't be 'reviewed' of sorts, games that are too much a sum of it's parts rather than being able to be called 'good' by ripping apart each individual aspect of it's design.
Earthbound is one of those games.
Being an insanely critical person when it comes to games, EB was the first video game to make me 'feel' what a great video game was rather than presenting reasons as to why a video game was great and completely changed my view on what constitutes as a 'good' game.
As for Mother 3, as most people have brought up, it definitely addresses some of those concerns.
But the great thing about M3 it's a completely different game from Earthbound in terms of tone and story.
I always think of the two as being Location-Driven (Earthbound) and Character-Driven (Mother 3), both exceed any expectations spectacularly.
Gameplay related, I find the battle system relies more on it's rhythm component and using more buffs than usual (similar to SMT in that regard) which makes battles much more engaging than Earthbound.
OP, if you're going to continue with Mother 3 (which you absolutely should) don't expect a direct sequel. I mean that in both story and gameplay.
They're both fantastic games which handle things completely differently.
For example, I find the story and characters in Mother 3 a MILLION times better than Earthbound, because that's it's focus.
But I prefer, as a whole, Earthbound as being the best in the trilogy.
I am not sure how you can call Mother 3 generic. But if you want an in-depth analysis of just how amazing Mother 3's approach to story is, I can share my thoughts too. Mother 3 does some shockingly complex exploration of particular themes. it's really a rousing success, just in a different way from Earthbound
Generic is probably the wrong word. It's still an extremely unique and well made game. And I'll have to finish it before I pass any sort of judgement, especially in regards to story.
I do like the game. There's just something about it that feels like a step back from Earthbound (even though it does make steps forward in terms of pure gameplay). I can appreciate its approach to storytelling and I'm not blind to it, you can save the in-depth analysis for somebody else unless you just feel like typing one anyway, in which case go ahead
I actually never found the gameplay to be disappointing. It was actually pretty difficult for me when I first started out. The rolling HP bars stress me out, and are useful in an interesting way as well.
I guess I just personally disagree with this narrative that Earthbound is a game with great dialogue, charm, and so on, and with unremarkable gameplay. I actually enjoyed pretty much every aspect of the game. I didn't enjoy Earthbound in spite of its battle system, I enjoyed it, in part, because of it.
I can't disagree with OP's assessment: the game has some flaws. I think, in general, simple turn-based combat was more accepted back in the day when a lot of RPGs involved little strategy outside of HP/MP conservation. Many turn-based RPGs involve deep mechanics today, while the overall number of turn-based RPGs have sharply decreased. The combat system of Earthbound was never anything special, and has aged as poorly as the rest of the genre. The big exception here which absolutely should not be overlooked is that, unlike most every other game in the genre for the next two decades, Earthbound does not use random encounters. In addition, the inclusion of the surprise attack by touching an enemy's back (or vice versa) was amazing and is something that needs to be copied by other games.
But really, Earthbound is a classic example of a game that is more than just its mechanics. Generally, I'm the kind of the guy that places gameplay, mechanics, and systems above all else. Earthbound is amazing because of its characters, story, humor, setting, art style, music, and enemy design. Basically, every element outside of combat. In this regard it is similar to Deadly Premonition (which has shitty core mechanics but is elevated by it's other elements).
All of these issues combined with the dull battle system makes actually playing Earthbound a bit of a chore at times. Take the setting and music away and I just don't see how anyone can claim that the core 'game' here, the 'rules of play', are anything but sub-standard. It feels like they were considered less important than all of the clever moments and commentary. It feels like a game designed by a comedian, philosopher or novelist rather than by a game designer, which is something I never expected of Nintendo. I've not heard of the Director, Itoi, since (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't look him up), so I suspect Nintendo might have come to the same conclusion as me. Brilliantly creative mind, but not a game systems designer.
Been playing this a bit more, and I am actually very disappointed in it. More than anything, the gameplay is highly annoying at times. You never get any directions, the game is incredibly slow, you die a ton without good reasons, there are waaaaay too many useless npc-characters, the item-system is pretty bad, the towns take a very long time to explore - without really benefitting you much. Not everything is bad though, the graphics and music is great, and the setting is of course also really unique - but so far I am very disappointed in it. Hope it gets better!
Been playing this a bit more, and I am actually very disappointed in it. More than anything, the gameplay is highly annoying at times. You never get any directions, the game is incredibly slow, you die a ton without good reasons, there are waaaaay too many useless npc-characters, the item-system is pretty bad, the towns take a very long time to explore - without really benefitting you much. Not everything is bad though, the graphics and music is great, and the setting is of course also really unique - but so far I am very disappointed in it. Hope it gets better!
Earthbound is one of my favorite games of all time, and I highly recommend any fans play Mother 3. I didn't think that I would like it better than Earthbound, but I did.
People talk about Earthbound in reverent tones but I have to say it didn't really grab me. To be fair I only beat
Starman Jr
and fought a few birds or something. The battle system was pretty outdated and the game wasn't really calling me back. I assume I need to invest a bit more time into it?
It's worth remembering that the Japanese name of the series is Mother. Each of the three games revolves heavily around the protagonist's relationship with his mother, and everyone else who loves him, and his origins as a whole. It continually evokes the struggle between resistance to and acceptance of the world, and the effects that both approaches can have on an individual.
Mother (the NES game), fittingly, introduces a series of motherly figures and explores the sacrifices they must make for those they love. Mother 2 (SNES) is all about what Amir0x describes quite well - remembering one's origins when going out into a strange and ostensibly crazy world, and the ties that keep you Bound to that world (EarthBound lol, but seriously, I thought it was a clever title). Mother 3 involves mothers because... well, you'll see. I don't want to spoil anything; it's a touching story.
Giygas was missing a bit of exposition in Mother 2, and his backstory is pretty much the only reason to play Mother 1. My understanding, and a lot of this is conjecture and interpretation, is that
he is an alien who traveled alone to Earth as a child and was raised by a human woman, Ninten's great-grandmother. She's been dead for years, and Giygas has become evil in her absence, but her spirit teaches Ninten and co. the lullaby she used to sing Giygas when he was young. When the party confronts Giygas, they sing the eight parts of the lullaby, and Giygas is too overcome by his emotions to continue fighting. He leaves, and promises to exact revenge on humanity because, presumably, the return of his memories and emotions brought him great pain.
In Mother 2, Giygas
has traveled back in time to attempt to defeat Ness years before Ness is prophesized to defeat him. He has kept himself sealed in a machine shaped like a gigantic brain (trapped within his own head, refusing to face his emotions) for so long that he has pretty much deteriorated to a being of pure psychological pain. He is killed by the hope that Ness and his friends maintain despite literally being reduced to emotionless robots at the end of their journey. As an aside, it is strongly suggested that Ness is the son of Ninten, with whom Giygas was particularly obsessed, due to being part of his adoptive family.
Pokey naturally gravitates towards
Giygas' power, and identifies with the alien's lack of connection to the Earth, because he can't comprehend that he has no friends because he is a self-obsessed little shit. I get the impression that Pokey's deepest wish is to truly be friends with Ness and the gang, but his jealousy and lack of insight completely prevent this from being a possibility.
I disagree with many of your complaints! Unmarked spoilers follow!
Mainly the battle system. I replayed the game in January and I think the battle system is good. It is a bit unbalanced, but I like it. It's true that it isn't very strategic (or, at least, the game never forces you to think strategically), but I can't agree with the comment about weapons that miss a lot. The game is absurdly clear when mentioning that some weapons miss more than others, so if you were getting annoyed at that then it's only your fault!
I also don't agree with the plot complaint. It's true that the game doesn't have a super epic overaching plot, but all the game is about Ness' growth. However, the game doesn't bother to nag you all the way with plot and stuff so it's easy to forget. I guess that's why they added the (amazing) coffee break sequences. The "plot" of the game, in this case, is following Ness' travels as he becomes a stronger person to save the world. I don't think it's important at all what Gyigas motivations are and other crap, they are just context for Ness' adventure.
In characters I agree, the main cast is oddly underdeveloped. Jeff has a bit of sweet backstory but the other 2 aren't very interesting (although the meditation scene with Poo is quite good). However, Porky's development is amazing IMO. He slowly goes from comic relief villain to batshit crazy villain. He doesn't have many motives, he's just a brat from a greedy family who becomes a maniac (I would guess Gyigas' powers were at work here too).
A shame you didn't like the final battle as much as most people. It depends a lot on how you tackle it. If you don't think about using Pray and start getting desperate because Gyigas never dies, it is VERY cool. I used Pray as I was giving up and it was like "...WHAT?!". Incredible moment for me!
As for Mother 3, the game is actually very different from Earthbound. The combat system is similar, just way more balanced. You can't get through Mother 3 without actually learning how to use Shields and crap. Characters are much more developed and are (more evidently) the center of the story. There are some parts of the plot that are kind of weak (not gonna spoil them), but the game is very engaging. It's much less quirky than Earthbound too and has less variety in locations, but it has much much more character development. A very recommended game in any case.
I haven't read the whole thread by the way, so if I'm repeating too many points... Sorry!
Finally, the music in Mother games is incredible. Even if you don't play Mother 3, the music deserves a listen. Shogo Sakai (Melee's composer) did an incredible work in that game.
Been playing this a bit more, and I am actually very disappointed in it. More than anything, the gameplay is highly annoying at times. You never get any directions, the game is incredibly slow, you die a ton without good reasons, there are waaaaay too many useless npc-characters, the item-system is pretty bad, the towns take a very long time to explore - without really benefitting you much. Not everything is bad though, the graphics and music is great, and the setting is of course also really unique - but so far I am very disappointed in it. Hope it gets better!
Earthbound isn't a reward-heavy game. As Amirox said, it's about the journey. If talking to NPCs that say random stuff is annoying to you, then the game clearly isn't for you or you should approach it with a different mindset. The fact that all the best weapons in the game are obtained with a 1/128 chance from very specific enemies emphazises that!
I never rented Earthbound as a kid but I remember seeing in Blockbuster the huge ass game box that they had to put on top of the shelf because it wouldn't fit in the regular shelving with the other game boxes
I actually really like the gameplay of Earthbound. It's not perfect but eh. There's something really charming and fun to me about classic turn-based RPGs. A lot of your issues seem to deal with auto-battle which I just ignored the existence of entirely. Random elements don't really bother me, part of the fun is trying to predict when they'll come up and strategize around them.
I played the game for the first time when it was released for Wii U, and loved it. I thought the battle system was pretty good all in all, it was quick, the rolling HP meter was a neat idea, and you had to always pay attention to the battle because sometimes the enemies could surprise you. I didn't really miss more animations or things like that, the minimalistic style fit the game.
This game has some good things going for it, but like I already wrote, there as so many annoying things. I am now stuck in Moonside without a way to exit or revive Jeff, making my playing here extremely annoying and hard. Also, whats up with all the misses you get all the time? And all those terrible status effects (nothing like having your whole party falling asleep and getting wiped). And the inventory-management is ridiculously convoluted as well - and why does everything go so slow?
This game would should have been made by Capcom, so they could have released a 'Turbo'-edition half a year later, for now, the game is just way to slow, tedious and frankly, boring. Sad to say
While Mother 3 had improved version of the battle system, I still love Earthbounds battle system too. Simple but tactical enough to allow some leg room on best actions. Plus the visuals and sounds rule too.
When I think games like Mega Man X, Chrono Trigger and Super Metroid I think they were a pinnacle of their genre at the time. Super well executed – all in all top 10 game material.
When I think Earthbound it's not nowhere as polished as the rest of the games I listed. But it's still as good. And it's all about the style. The setting, the characters, the humour and OH THE MUSIC. The first half ot the game is five stars, 10/10 etc. However, after fourside it's maybe too much running around from sancturary to sancturary so the end game isn't quite as strong as the beginning. Still a fantastic game and in my top 3 SNES games.
Might as well ask here. What should I do when I use Poo for the first time? I went up and started the meditation, but then let the girl seduce me, and went down. After wandering around for a while, I checked a fac, and surely enough, she had tricked me - but what do I do now? I tried to go back to the top to meditate, but nothing happens when I stay there. Any tips?
Found out about it. Just wondering something else - there was always talk about this game not being rereleased because of it using some beatles-songs or songs that was really similar to some beatles-song - where are those in the game? I tend to listen to podcasts when i play a grindy game like this, so I might have missed it.
Found out about it. Just wondering something else - there was always talk about this game not being rereleased because of it using some beatles-songs or songs that was really similar to some beatles-song - where are those in the game? I tend to listen to podcasts when i play a grindy game like this, so I might have missed it.
The battle system is both bog standard DQ clone but has a few absolutely revolutionary ideas that take it up a notch.
Enemies on screen with the weak ones running from you and positional advantage. Plus auto defeating foes you could kill in one turn anyways. Brilliant.
The rolling HP bar is such a good idea to build tension in a turn based game. I need to get into that menu, get the healing item or spell ready, and have my turn. I need to not get hit by the foe. Those numbers are rolling by quickly.
Related to the second one is the Guts stat. Allows you to survive otherwise fatal hits with 1 hp remaining. Very exciting when this goes off.
Ok, so i've propably made a mistake and bought Earthbound (i clearly wasn't thinking straight) and now i kinda like the game. I've never played it before, so my question is: is the story conected to Mother 1? Because i don't know if i should play that game too.
Ok, so i've propably made a mistake and bought Earthbound (i clearly wasn't thinking straight) and now i kinda like the game. I've never played it before, so my question is: is the story conected to Mother 1? Because i don't know if i should play that game too.
I really wish that Nintendo would just release all three games for 3DS or something. I'm really depressed that they've ignored the fans in the west for so long.
I played it a long time ago as a young teenager on SNES9x. I remember using like 8x speed to walk across an ungodly long bridge. I assume I was doing something wrong because there's no way the game would force you to walk that long.
Then I got warped to that neon Fourside looking place, couldn't go back, saved it, and then discovered that these demonic cars could MURDER my squad with ease, and I had nowhere to run/train, and my save file was destroyed.
I haven't been back since, but I do recall not being the biggest fan of the battle system. I hope the Earthbound trilogy rumors are true, and that they rebalance the games a bit. Was Mother 2 on GBA changed/balanced in any way from the SNES version?
Ok, so i've propably made a mistake and bought Earthbound (i clearly wasn't thinking straight) and now i kinda like the game. I've never played it before, so my question is: is the story conected to Mother 1? Because i don't know if i should play that game too.
Currently playing this for the first time (I'm in Twoson, about to get Paula) and I'm in love. I've never played anything quite like it.
Something I should ask: I got cursed by a mushroom which messed up my controls, and eventually got to a hospital to...ummmm...heal myself. I remember that in Mario RPG, you could get cursed and turned into a mushroom in the middle of a battle. Is this some sort of Japanese thing? I just found it odd that both games, both RPGs on the SNES, shared this similarity.
So I finally got around to playing Earthbound, having bought it on the VC when it came out a year ago. I beat it late last night, so there will be (mostly very mild) spoilers, but I'll mark them. Anyway, my impressions follow:
Some games have a timeless quality, and lose nothing as the industry advances and our expectations of certain genres and the mechanics within change. Other games that are beloved are more a product of their time, and probably needed to be played when they were released for a person to fully understand just what the game meant to people, or how unique and groundbreaking it was. I can't help but feel like Earthbound is the latter kind of game in many ways. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy it, but it was flawed, far more so than I expected. I was charmed, but I was also bored just as often, and I can't ignore that. Let's break this thing down into pieces like Ness smashing up an Octobot with a baseball bat:
Conclusion
Most games are mediocre and forgettable. Many are worse than average in all respects. Many great games are lots of fun and make you think but can't make you feel. Many really fun games to actually play are ultimately forgettable for whatever reason.
So what to make of a game that wasn't much fun, didn't challenge me or make me think, but DID make me feel, and WAS unforgettable? How do you judge a game like that? I just don't think I can write off the 'game' part as unimportant as others obviously do when judging Earthbound. I can't separate the systems from the setting. I was bored too often. The story let me down. Yes, I also loved visiting a new, wacky town and chatting to people while listening to music. That's not quite enough, not on its own, to make a game great. The interactivity of Earthbound was its weakest point, and when it's a video game in question that's got to cost it points. As such I often felt like the this wonderful and inventive world would have been better off as an animated movie.
So, Earthbound. It's a classic, alright. A game I won't forget. Does it stink? No.
You can't scratch and sniff the Gamepad, after all.
Considering what I said a few months back in this thread I'm pleased to say I did actually get around to beating this game back in December, it's still flawed in various ways but it makes up for it through its genuine charm (not a term I like to rely on but yeah).
I'm still falling in line with a lot of the OP mind you, however the story side of things is fine by me.
This is the biggest issue I have, because it does display something of a great misunderstanding to what Earthbound is.
Earthbound is partly a parody of the classic RPGs that were popular of the day, so a lot of the story focus is around making fun of the conventions used in the genre and the silliness of a lot of its approaches. But, more than that, Earthbound is not about the minutiae of its plot details, which is what you got caught up on. Which is perfectly fine. Some people need really complex story beats and need these insane plot twists which usually make me roll my eyes, but others love it.
But the important thing, and what you seem to have missed - and I could be wrong, granted - is what the story is actually about. Because it's not about Pokey. It's not about Apple Kid, or Paul, Jeff or Poo, although they provide context for what the game is about. Because from the smallest detail of the game to the largest strokes, the game is about one simple theme: it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. And it's also about where you came from. What do you learn about yourself? What is important? The game inexorably focuses on a simple answer: your friends and your family. Home is what matters. It doesn't matter that you're fighting intergalactic aliens. Doesn't matter you cleared a town out of zombies. Doesn't matter that you went and fought bosses under Stonehedge.
What matters is that after that, if you don't want to get homesick you're going to make sure your Mom is OK. Because this is a kid, and he's far away from home... and he can't forget what is important.
The way the game is constantly taking photos of your trip again reinforces the theme of "It's about the journey, not the destination." You remember what you learn, but you don't forget where you came from. When you don't call home, you get a status element for it. To order Pizza, you have to keep in contact with your sister, who loves you. When you need to save your game, you talk to your father.
EVEN your journey itself is meant to remind you of where you came from. Though parodying the standard "FIND EIGHT CRYSTALS" or whatever trope from traditional jRPGs, the sound stone points actually have great thematic significance. Because what happens at each one? You recall the simplest, most basic memories of a childhood gone by. Nostalgic little bits of whimsy that remind you - and the player - of how far you've come, and what you're really here for. You make new friends and you have to grow up, and you will become your own person. But how did you get here? Your home. Your family.
When you collect all the sound stones, you're greeted with one of the most beautifully nuanced and effective scenes in an jRPG I can think of. It's so simple, such a stark contrast to the overbearing, unsubtle "punch you in the face with it" themes of other RPGs, and shows immediately the huge gap in writing talent between those who worked on this game and those who worked on other RPG stories.
You walk up a cliff, in black and white with bits of red color. There is your home. There is your family. And what do you see there? Some huge plot twist? Some massive mind blowing revelation? No. Because that's not what this is about. What you see is the most pitch perfect reflection of a Mother's love that has been depicted in a game.
Before you lies a cradle, with you in it. It's rocking back and forth, and we are to imagine his mother and father sitting there looking lovingly over their new child. They put his distinctive red cap on him, and then they simply share a beautifully powerful wish for their kid.
"This baby will grow up to be a hard worker just like you.
I don't think he needs to be rich or famous... but I want him to be a thoughtful, strong boy."
Is there any more powerful statement of a mother and father's love than this? Everyone is on this journey, trying to save the world or something... but the Mother doesn't need her boy to be famous or rich, she basically just wants him to be happy and strong. And Ness doesn't need to wait to defeat Giygas to have his reward; he already has it. It's waiting for him back at home.
This is all well and good, but his complaints about the story itself are still valid. Yes, it's about the charm, and yes, it's about the thematic significance of the childhood journey... but it doesn't change the fact that the story itself is lacking. The OP laid out what was wrong with Earthbound's storytelling really well. Characterization is not its strong point, and it does suffer from a lack of it. You say it's not about Ness, or Poo, or Jeff, and you're right, but we are controlling these characters for the entirety of the story, and they hardly ever amount to anything. These are the "details" you mention - a more solid characterization of the protagonists, more detailed context to the overarching story, and more detailed dialogue would have only made the "larger strokes" you mention stronger. Its strengths do not give its weaknesses a free pass. This is actually an area I think Mother 3 improved upon greatly.
That said, I pretty much agree with you word for word, OP. Incredibly charming game with some pretty glaring flaws. I feel as if it would have been much more enjoyable to actually play as a kid back in the 90's, when I could have been much more forgiving of its game design. Some aspects of it are timeless, though, and its strengths really do shine through the dated game design.
The battle system didn't bother me. The aesthetics/artstyle, settings, characters, humor and charm lift this game far beyond any issues you should have with the battle system. I finished the game a few months ago for the first time. Also, best game OST? Quite possibly.
EarthBound's battle system is more than just mashing the Bash command and is tonally one of the best things about the game. It contextualizes/punctuates the strangeness of the situation you're in. More than that, the gameplay itself, as far as a Dragon Warrior combat system, I would unquestionably say that rolling HP is what makes it great. The fact that it stops when you win allows the game to have actually threatening enemies, even random encounters. Similarly, heals are generally meant for outside battles, or require menu memorization to make effective use of them in combat. This is why Shield becomes a valuable ally in battle (and why enemies use it to great effect to go "hey, this ability is really useful/powerful!")
As a battle system, it's the best of its kind. Could refinements be made? Sure, but that could be said of any videogame. And it's easy to say it in hindsight.
Bottle rockets and item fixing/repairing make him one of the best characters in a singular instance. You can stop the game from being challenging by loading him up with Big Bottle Rockets before every boss fight
I played this for the first time only a few years ago. I thought I would hate it because of all the hype and the modern setting, and at first I was really turned off by the visuals, but at some point it totally hooked me, and I thoroughly enjoyed it, despite its flaws. It's one of those games that is greater than the sum of its parts. I felt the same way about Nier late last year... it's a game where the gameplay itself is mediocre, but is elevated by other elements in such a way as to become a classic. That's how I view EarthBound. I much preferred Mother 3, though. It feels more complete, polished, and modern.
