TyrantGuardian
Member
Oh, I definitely agree. I'm just saying that it definitely works out in the dev's favor by a huge margin when this sort of stuff happens. Scummy, yes. An actual problem? Not really.
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It looks like The Witness was priced correctly: week 1 sales tracking > Braid year 1
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Oh, I definitely agree. I'm just saying that it definitely works out in the dev's favor by a huge margin when this sort of stuff happens. Scummy, yes. An actual problem? Not really.
Its REVENUE, OP should add that to his post
Jonathan Blow said:
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/693670500862550016
Blizniak said that a couple pages ago but a lot of people didnt see
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Awesome! Very, very deserved. Possibly the best indie game I've ever played.
Chû Totoro
Member
So one day piracy prevents him to make another game and next day 1st week sales are giving him solid signs that he will be able to make another more ambitious project.
Yeah like I said in the piracy tweet thread, piracy hurts a lot of games but most of the times when you see your game in the top pirated games it's also in the top paid games. Not saying that seing piracy is good but things shouldn't be considered only by the numbers you can see on some torrents sites. Success of a game is way more complex than that, even when it has all the qualities of a good game.
Good for him though, I may buy The Witness because this seems to be really a good game but having a few games to finish and with this launch price I may wait a few weeks (and if price don't go down I may still buy it, having time to play the game I buy is really my biggest constraint).
And just a note here regarding some comments since the topic is also about his previous Tweet:
Twitter is not something easy to use for professionals so if you're not used to it except for a personal usage I think you shouldn't use it. I see a lot of Indies or well known people in the gaming industry being burned by Tweets made without thinking of consequences. Here it's just that he looks like a crying baby when the next day he jumps everywhere (aka he looks stupid) but it's not hurtful at all and the news at the end is a good one so again congrats to him
Edit: Ok bought.... I have to try it (and I'll play it properly in a few weeks). So here is another sale ^^
Yeah like I said in the piracy tweet thread, piracy hurts a lot of games but most of the times when you see your game in the top pirated games it's also in the top paid games. Not saying that seing piracy is good but things shouldn't be considered only by the numbers you can see on some torrents sites. Success of a game is way more complex than that, even when it has all the qualities of a good game.
Good for him though, I may buy The Witness because this seems to be really a good game but having a few games to finish and with this launch price I may wait a few weeks (and if price don't go down I may still buy it, having time to play the game I buy is really my biggest constraint).
And just a note here regarding some comments since the topic is also about his previous Tweet:
Twitter is not something easy to use for professionals so if you're not used to it except for a personal usage I think you shouldn't use it. I see a lot of Indies or well known people in the gaming industry being burned by Tweets made without thinking of consequences. Here it's just that he looks like a crying baby when the next day he jumps everywhere (aka he looks stupid) but it's not hurtful at all and the news at the end is a good one so again congrats to him
Edit: Ok bought.... I have to try it (and I'll play it properly in a few weeks). So here is another sale ^^
Portugeezer
Member
Must be thanks to the piracy word of mouth /s
ChetWilson
Banned
That's good for the hardware producers, but not so much for the software makers. Nintendo made a good chunk of change off me for replacing 3-4 broken DS's so I could keep plowing through my R4 loaded w/ 100+ roms, but none of the replacement fees went to any of the software companies (unless the software maker was Nintendo.)
ezekielpacman
Member
Backseat modding and junior shaming in one atrocious post, well done.
Anyway, glad the game is selling well.
CecilRousso
Member
Chû Totoro;193821629 said:Here it's just that he looks like a crying baby when the next day he jumps everywhere (aka he looks stupid) but it's not hurtful at all and the news at the end is a good one so again congrats to him
Looked like a crying baby, because of those tweets? Really?
Maybe he should think a bit more like that, but that would be more a question about thinking about what audience you have, rather then there being something actual wrong about the tweets.
Chû Totoro
Member
Yeah calling him a crying baby is exaggerated but like I said complaining that piracy is that big that it will probably destroy your chances of still developing games when the next day you say that your 1st week sales are above one of the biggest indie success I can't help but think that he didn't think long enough before making the 1st Tweet.
And regarding the audience I find it not to be a good move too because when you talk about piracy while there's obviously a good and big chunk of gamers interested in your games you are looking in the wrong direction. Don't look at pirates and look at your audience and just thanking them for the support is the way to go.
I'm not saying his Tweets were inherently bad but they had at least a bad timing. Too soon and not in the best order imo... talking about great sales and then saying that even if he's hearing the price remarks he doesn't think that pirating is the best way to keep the industry going forward then I would have slowclap this gentleman.
But yeah I understand what you say and like always a little thing gets bigger than it should. Now it made us discuss piracy impact on sales and the way some devs should communicate so we kind of elevate the debate a little
I didn't play the game yet, I read that from a critic that compared the structure (but he didn't really go into details). Although FEZ was really hard to get into, from the reactions I've read it seems that The Witness is easier to get into because of the graphics, 3D open world and possibilities, but you can get blocked for hours before solving problems, and like FEZ you'll need to use your mind and play with real pen, paper etc.
Even if the game has a sweet media campaign and sweet graphics, it's still a niche and hard puzzle games that won't please everyone, and more specifically lots of people are worried of not being the target. So knowing this and that you can't really play a demo (unless you use illegal copy on PC)*, the 40$ price can be an issue. ("I don't want to spend so much money on a game that I maybe will only play 1, 2, or 4 hours because I don't know if I'll stay interested or that I'll can resolve challenges")
*and I understand why it hasn't any free legal demo, at least on day one
Hopefully a price drop later and more deep feedback from people especially those who are not used to puzzle brainy games could still get these people to buy the game.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
So we are going to ignore that the Witness launched on 2 platforms over Braids 1?
Not to mention the market for indies have changed significantly, for better and worse.
Im sure Blow is happy, which is the main thing but this whole "the price was right >>> look at these sales" looks incredibly reductive.
That said, ive noticed that becoming a trend in any thread regarding this game...
Not to mention the market for indies have changed significantly, for better and worse.
Im sure Blow is happy, which is the main thing but this whole "the price was right >>> look at these sales" looks incredibly reductive.
That said, ive noticed that becoming a trend in any thread regarding this game...
UcchedavÄda
Member
To be fair, he did not claim that piracy "prevents" him from making another game, but rather that piracy would "not help us afford to make another game", which seems like a truism to me. He obviously need people to actually buy (and not just pirate) TW if he is to afford other (similar) projects.Chû Totoro;193821629 said:
I thought it was assimilated.
YankeeDonB
Member
Excellent. I've been avoiding all threads on this game because I'm getting a ton of enjoyment in figuring out puzzle rule sets (which are incidentally spoiled really easily even if specific solutions aren't), but it's really great. I'm not a puzzle game fan, but this feels more like language learning than puzzling in some ways.
igordennis
Member
Chû Totoro;193822301 said:
What the hell is wrong with some of you? He said pirating his games will not help him make a new one. Thats it. That's a true statement and it will continue to be true. I wanna see a quote of the bolded.
Jesus christ some of you have twisted his tweets to mean something completely different and extremely salty in your heads, its amazing.
CaptainGyro
Banned
Why does it matter if it was released on two platforms, and why does it matter if the indie market has changed? How does that invalidate the line "it looks like the price was right" when the game has sold well enough to make a lot of money in it's first week? He said they would have enough money to make another game of the same budget, so why do any of your points even matter? I don't get it... yeah it was released on two platforms and sold faster (or made money faster) than the one that was originally sold on one platform. Ok...so? that's the point of putting it on two platforms
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
Could have sworn people said he priced himself out of the market. /smug
What NDA though? Isn't this self published?
What NDA though? Isn't this self published?
Neuromancer
Member
I can't help but be pleased by this. The Witness is a great game; its price shouldn't be determined because it's 'just an indie game,' or that it was made by a fraction of the staff of the average AAA game.
Chû Totoro
Member
Yeah if we look at wording precisely it says that pirated games won't help them afford to make another game... well if there's nothing implied here since he mentioned the 1st place in dl on a torrent site then it's just the most obvious thing possible regarding piracy... yeah it seems a pirated game won't contribute in sales and won't give devs money for making the next one. How surprising
So for you what does the tweet means, implies or try to say? Just that 1 pirated game is not a sold one?
Then no need to Tweet. It's a PR tool for him now so to handle with care.
And if you think he was saying more than the obvious then I'm curious to see what you understand from the said Tweet. I personally see someone who's pointing the fact that since his game is 1st pirated game on a big torrent site he may have difficulties to make another game. And if that's the point I'm sorry to repeat myself but it can't be seen as a sole reasons for failure (and I4m glad that his game seems to be a success).
valkillmore
Member
I bought it last night. Plan to indulge this evening and I can't wait.
I think its extremely obvious Blow is talking revenue, not units.
Im actually not sure of what to make of this.
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/693670500862550016
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
There's no way of knowing that.
What is known is the game sold well despite pirate scum stealing the game.
SteamSpy is not accurate in such a short time period, also confirmed by Jonathan Blow, who said the numbers are lower than what they have
OrbitalBeard
Member
If his next game is as good as The Witness, I don't mind waiting another eight years.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Well launching at nearly 3 times the price on and on twice the platforms does make making the launch bigger in terms of revenue a bit more of a forgone conclusion, wouldnt you think?
My point is only you cannot reduce this to a like for like comparison.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
You can't really.
But if this is a jab at people whining about the $40 bucks you can still point out that this game costs over 2x as much as his last one and has sold much more fantastically than Braid did.
I'm glad the games doing well. It puzzles me why when his product is doing so well he decided to make a somewhat dramatic tweet about something that literally affects every single product that is released digitally.
Focus on keeping your paying customers happy and don't worry about the other BS.
Focus on keeping your paying customers happy and don't worry about the other BS.
johancruijff
Banned
Jonathan, it worked
igordennis
Member
Launch week revenue>first year revenue a foregone conclusion? Not really.
The piracy tweets were inflated over the tweets thanks to games journalism, which Jonathan Blow also agrees with in a recent tweet. In the end his two tweets on the matter were on the 2nd day of availability and with a DRM free option available right out of the gate. Being at the top of a torrent chart for games on a few sites is absolutely standard. The day after, Rise of the Tomb Raider took its place at the top and the Witness dropped to 3rd, and now it is lower still.
sturgboski
Member
Not to defend but there have been studies showing that 1 download = 1 lost sale is a logical fallacy. Usually the actual percentage is in the 10-20% range for lost sales. Many other industries had admitted to grossly overstating the impact of piracy and have commissioned and then rejected studies that disprove the 1=1 destination. I can't find that article on Arstechnica (render reading it around 2005), but here is another article about a study performed by the Institute for Policy Innovation.
Note I'm not condoning piracy. I am just pointing out that research has found that not every illegal download represents a lost sale.
CaptainGyro
Banned
Glitchesarecool
Member
It's how things were reported and preconceived notions about this game/Blow. Websites took a narrative with the tweets which colored people's impressions about what was said. Also twitter is a terrible platform for getting information across.
A cursory glance tells me this hasn't been posted:
You can put away those crocodile tears, you-know-who-you-are. Turns out releasing a game on the PC isn't so bad after all.
Piracy on the PC is an unfortunate reality, yes, but that doesn't mean having a PC version is an inherently bad idea.
You can put away those crocodile tears, you-know-who-you-are. Turns out releasing a game on the PC isn't so bad after all.
Piracy on the PC is an unfortunate reality, yes, but that doesn't mean having a PC version is an inherently bad idea.
Beerman462
Member
Apparently the game was missing shadows on AMD gpus at release. If a streamer didn't have shadows after the patch was issued then odds are they pirated it.
Even that seems too high. The gaming industry had somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 billion dollars in revenue in 2015, so over 9 billion dollars was lost due to piracy? In some ways I hope Denuvo becomes the defacto standard so we can finally get some accurate numbers by looking at year-to-year figures.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Might as well had been a 60 dollar retail game. I'm not exaggerating either.
CouldBeWorse
Member
You're analyzing in the wrong direction. Start with the quantity of pirated downloads, some average cost number, and apply your 10%. Would be incredibly difficult to analyze because buying habits are so complex, especially in the PC space.