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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016

Did you vote for the side that is going to win?

Results are only viewable after voting.
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F

ferrasvansen

Member
avaya said:
Corbyn makes Trump look like a political genius.
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I think you underestimate him, if leave start the immigration focus again after last weeks events it will harm them a lot, they are already seen as having the worst campaign and more negative in yesterdays polls so i doubt they would be stupid enough to do that or maybe Corbyn hopes they will.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
DrFurbs said:
Done some readin this last two weeks on other EU countries. I would strongly suspect if the UK left the EU, it will trigger other countries to think about leaving too. The open door immigration policy appears to be a huge issue for many normal working class people across the EU. It's not reported by main stream media but the mass movement of people is stifling many towns. The huge problem with the Euro too and mass unemployment is really pushing some counties to breaking point (Italy for example).

I feel a sense of unease much of it not reported.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, many of the most anti-immigration areas are those least affected by it. (Kent) Yet those that are most pro it are those hugely affected by it (London). There are negatives from immigration, but in most cases people directly exposed to it start to like it.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
ferrasvansen said:
I think you underestimate him, if leave start the immigration focus again after last weeks events it will harm them a lot, they are already seen as having the worst campaign and more negative in yesterdays polls so i doubt they would be stupid enough to do that or maybe Corbyn hopes they will.
Click to expand...

Plus it's Corbyn being Corbyn, he's not running the show.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Tak3n said:
well people say follow the money, in that case it is a done deal as odds are now 1.3 to remain, that is very low
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Yeah, two days they both remain and leave were trending towards 2 (remain 1.7, leave 2.2) which you would expect for a coin flip. Odds have definitely shortened on Remain over Fri / Sat.

Edit:

Lol Corbyn should take another holiday
 
D

DrFurbs

Member
Moosichu said:
On the other hand, many of the most anti-immigration areas are those least affected by it. (Kent) Yet those that are most pro it are those hugely affected by it (London). There are negatives from immigration, but in most cases people directly exposed to it start to like it.
Click to expand...

Mate I do not agree to this at all. I've been watching videos in Italy and Germany and reading many EU newspapers the last few days.

There simply isn't enough housing or jobs, and culturally many towns are effectively euthanased as the local indigenous populations become outnumbered by a massive margin. I would strongly suspect that in the general election next year in Germany, Merkel will be kicked out our the very worst, the AFD (extreme right wing party) will grow in size. It already has 3 elected members and it's growing. The evidence is all there on line to read.

I can undestand why it's such a hot topic in the referendum.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Corbyn gets a lot of criticism, but he's one of the few leaders to keep things reasonable, honest and respectful.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
PJV3 said:
Corbyn gets a lot of criticism, but he's one of the few leaders to keep things reasonable, honest and respectful.
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Yeah seems a decent bloke, but he is a bit out of date and not really PM material sadly, Labour definitely needs a leader who is a bit stronger and can stand up to the tory press barrage at the next election.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
PJV3 said:
Corbyn gets a lot of criticism, but he's one of the few leaders to keep things reasonable, honest and respectful.
Click to expand...

Indeed. He's a terrible politician for that, he should feed people's delusions that the EU would happily give up one of the founding principles just to appease us.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
DrFurbs said:
I can undestand why it's such a hot topic in the referendum.
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It doesn't help that the media are very sensationalist.

Build up to last time a new country was added to EU was so widespread and torrid. One almost expects an invasion of immigrants.
Then come January 1st. Nothing happens. Media moves on. No reflection. Until the next time of course.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
Carl2291 said:
Corbyn is just showing how out of touch he is with voters and reality itself.
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Well, no, in this case the voters are out of touch with reality. The reason being that politicians pander to that in hopes of appealing more, fuelling that even more. There is a lot of evidence that immigration is a huge net benefit, and more politicians should actually argue for that.
 
I

IpKaiFung

Member
Carl2291 said:
Corbyn is just showing how out of touch he is with voters and reality itself.
Click to expand...

Areas similar to where I live which are predominantly 98% British born are apparently teeming with migrants stealing jobs, houses, benefits, women, cars etc. according to the people who live here.

Who's really out of touch with reality?
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
Watching Farage on TV now, no wonder Gove and Johnson wanted nothing to do with him after last weeks events this guy really has no idea how to behave, sigh. I guess his schoolteachers were right about him being a racist, horrible man.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
IpKaiFung said:
Areas similar to where I live which are predominantly 98% British born are apparently teeming with migrants stealing jobs, houses, benefits, women, cars etc. according to the people who live here.

Who's really out of touch with reality?
Click to expand...

there was a article written about this, and in areas where immigration really is not a issue, like 1 in 20 is non british, Immigration is touted as a major concern on the doorstep

Move to areas where immigration is rife (london) and hardly anyone mentions it as a issue....

I dont think there is a scientific reason for it either
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Moosichu said:
Well, no, in this case the voters are out of touch with reality. The reason being that politicians pander to that in hopes of appealing more, fuelling that even more. There is a lot of evidence that immigration is a huge net benefit, and more politicians should actually argue for that.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of evidence that those working in low or semi-skilled jobs, or dependent on social housing, have been negatively impacted by immigration. A more honest attitude would be that espoused by the Economist (in the articles linked earlier in this thread), where it was argued that the future will belong to the graduate/educated class, and unskilled workers will be worthless in the global economy. I'm not sure how well that would go down among UKIP voters in Doncaster though...
 
T

Tyaren

Member
jamieson87 said:
Crazy how fickle people are.
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Yep... This may sound undemocratic, but it is also crazy that the fickle populace can directly decide on such significant matters. A good portion of the people don't even fully comprehend the whole situation, another good portion is clearly emotionally driven and then there are the people who just don't give a shit. This is not how decisions should be made and even less decisions of such great importance for Britain and the whole continent.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
Kotetsu534 said:
There's a lot of evidence that those working in low or semi-skilled jobs, or dependent on social housing, have been negatively impacted by immigration. A more honest attitude would be that espoused by the Economist (in the articles linked earlier in this thread), where it was argued that the future will belong to the graduate/educated class, and unskilled workers will be worthless in the global economy. I'm not sure how well that would go down among UKIP voters in Doncaster though...
Click to expand...

Wonder what folk will think when they finally all realise robots will replace workers anyway, it might be 50 or 100 years away but its coming.
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
I live in Kent now, London for most of my life before.

I am hoping the vote goes the same way the vote for the new new Kent police commissioner goes.

the overall winner of the election for a police commissioner, who came from a police family background.

UKIP vaguely racist undertones. was second but the margin was enough that he didn't win.

as for UKIP taking kent by storm I am sure a lot of voters did not allow that to happen.

as for the mood in town, the people I am talking to is like 70% remain5 25% leave 5% undecided.

Facebook, it seems the leavers are the ones shouting the most.
 
D

DrFurbs

Member
Ashes said:
It doesn't help that the media are very sensationalist.

Build up to last time a new country was added to EU was so widespread and torrid. One almost expects an invasion of immigrants.
Then come January 1st. Nothing happens. Media moves on. No reflection. Until the next time of course.
Click to expand...

Again I urge you to examine newspapers /independent sources of other countries and YouTube. The media here is largely biased and/or incompetent for whatever reason.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
ferrasvansen said:
Wonder what folk will think when they finally all realise robots will replace workers anyway, it might be 50 or 100 years away but its coming.
Click to expand...

yep, I read a interesting report on this, and basically said unless you are in the tech industry or service industry, you are basically fucked
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
jufonuk said:
I live in Kent now, London for most of my life before.

I am hoping the vote goes the same way the vote for the new new Kent police commissioner goes.

the overall winner of the election for a police commissioner, who came from a police family background.

UKIP vaguely racist undertones. was second but the margin was enough that he didn't win.

as for UKIP taking kent by storm I am sure a lot of voters did not allow that to happen.

as for the mood in town, the people I am talking to is like 70% remain5 25% leave 5% undecided.
Click to expand...

I actually think Kent will vote out
 
W

Wrestlemania

Banned
Tak3n said:
this is going to course a stir

https://twitter.com/murrisonMP/status/744466458231644160?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Follow

andrew murrisonVerified account
‏@murrisonMP
Remain side spinning Jo Cox murder for partisan advantage in #EUReferendum shameful.
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Where is this spin?

tumblr_lrjhiofp841r3opg1o1_250.gif
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Tak3n said:
I actually think Kent will vote out
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I'm hoping not. (my county of birth, don't let me down you Kents!)

a few family members and the young seem to want to stay.

Haven't encountered anyone in my family who wants to leave . that or they are being quiet about it.
 
W

Wrestlemania

Banned
DrFurbs said:
Again I urge you to examine newspapers /independent sources of other countries and YouTube. The media here is largely biased and/or incompetent for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

You think the media here is biased against showing the impact of immigration when new countries join? What? I'd be interested in knowing some of the unbiased sources you'd recommend we look at.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
Kotetsu534 said:
There's a lot of evidence that those working in low or semi-skilled jobs, or dependent on social housing, have been negatively impacted by immigration. A more honest attitude would be that espoused by the Economist (in the articles linked earlier in this thread), where it was argued that the future will belong to the graduate/educated class, and unskilled workers will be worthless in the global economy. I'm not sure how well that would go down among UKIP voters in Doncaster though...
Click to expand...

That is true, but immigration brings in enough money to improve the standard of living for those people. They've been failed by the government here. Programs could be launched to turn them into skilled workers. There are regions that have been devastated by immigration and not enough has been done to help them. But:
A) Corbyn is right that immigration is a net benefit, and more than enough money is brought into by it to help those who are hardest hit.
B) There is no way freedom of movement is going away any time soon. Even in case of Brexit and we want to remain a part of the single market. If we leave the single market, well, then everyone will be even more fucked over a unfortunately. :(
 
D

DrFurbs

Member
Wrestlemania said:
You think the media here is biased against showing the impact of immigration when new countries join? What? I'd be interested in knowing some of the unbiased sources you'd recommend we look at.
Click to expand...

No they show it in a non balanced way, mostly favourable IMO. They certainly don't show it's ugly head.
 
I

IpKaiFung

Member
Tak3n said:
I dont think there is a scientific reason for it either
Click to expand...

It's not scientific but this is basically the reason.
ClTPNbYXEAAFqfw.jpg

ClTPOq3WAAAoPKq.jpg


If that's all you read day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year, it's gonna make people think it's true.

Basically Goebbels' big lie technique.
 
U

Undead

Member
Moosichu said:
A) Corbyn is right that immigration is a net benefit, and more than enough money is brought into by it to help those who are hardest hit.
Click to expand...

He may be right but he should also have the brains to know that decades of biased media coverage and MP's making people believe that immigration is bad can't be wiped out overnight and that saying it so close to a referendum where most people are already voting purely on immigration would be a bad idea.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
IpKaiFung said:
Areas similar to where I live which are predominantly 98% British born are apparently teeming with migrants stealing jobs, houses, benefits, women, cars etc. according to the people who live here.

Who's really out of touch with reality?
Click to expand...

I think Pro-EU politicians have been really shit these past 15 years when talking about migration, often unwilling to talk up the positives, downplaying negatives and dismissing anyone's concerns as racist. That's allowed UKIP and the like to prosper.
 
I

IpKaiFung

Member
Uzzy said:
I think Pro-EU politicians have been really shit these past 15 years when talking about migration, often unwilling to talk up the positives, downplaying negatives and dismissing anyone's concerns as racist. That's allowed UKIP and the like to prosper.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, they needed to nip this issue in the bud but instead just pandered to it for years.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
IpKaiFung said:
It's not scientific but this is basically the reason.
ClTPNbYXEAAFqfw.jpg

ClTPOq3WAAAoPKq.jpg


If that's all you read day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year, it's gonna make people think it's true.

Basically Goebbels' big lie technique.
Click to expand...

Yep. I've been saying it for months. We've been force feed this and anti-euro stuff for years and now finally folks have got the opportunity to express their resentment and will vote out.

I totally blame the media for this.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Ashes said:
It doesn't help that the media are very sensationalist.

Build up to last time a new country was added to EU was so widespread and torrid. One almost expects an invasion of immigrants.
Then come January 1st. Nothing happens. Media moves on. No reflection. Until the next time of course.
Click to expand...

I remember when Romania got free movement there was a huge press junket at the airport on 1st Jan awaiting the flood of immigrants. In the end they only found one guy that said he was coming to immigrate.

Pretty dumb really. Did they really think all the immigrants were going to come on New Years Day?
 
S

spuckthew

Member
jufonuk said:
Facebook, it seems the leavers are the ones shouting the most.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it feels this way in general, not just on Facebook. Basically everyone I know, including the entirety of my office (we're a very multinational company) are all voting Remain without being too vocal about it.

It feels like Leave are trying too hard - whether it works though...
 
R

RiggyRob

Member
jufonuk said:
I'm hoping not. (my county of birth, don't let me down you Kents!)

a few family members and the young seem to want to stay.

Haven't encountered anyone in my family who wants to leave . that or they are being quiet about it.
Click to expand...

I would be extremely surprised if the majority of Kent didn't vote Leave. It's full of the typical white little Englanders, and there's Vote Leave billboards in fairly prominent places along the M25.

It was kind of a shock after living in a Labour county for so long to come to a fervent Tory county and see what the elder generation are like.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
spuckthew said:
Honestly, it feels this way in general, not just on Facebook. Basically everyone I know, including the entirety of my office (we're a very multinational company) are all voting Remain without being too vocal about it.

It feels like Leave are trying too hard - whether it works though...
Click to expand...

It was the same during indy ref, every message board, newspaper comment section, facebook and twitter was swarmed with Yes messages, you would have thought it was 80% yes in the country when in fact it was anything but.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
DrFurbs said:
Again I urge you to examine newspapers /independent sources of other countries and YouTube. The media here is largely biased and/or incompetent for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Is this really the case? Here in the UK the Daily Mail tends to rush any negative immigration story and often giving it front page coverage.Take this very week for example. The two biggest papers, the Sun and the Daily Mail ran the story. At least they posted a 54 word retraction the following day somewhere in the paper.


QuicheFontaine said:
I remember when Romania got free movement there was a huge press junket at the airport on 1st Jan awaiting the flood of immigrants. In the end they only found one guy that said he was coming to immigrate.

Pretty dumb really. Did they really think all the immigrants were going to come on New Years Day?
Click to expand...

They believed their own hype.
 
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