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GAF Book Club (July 2011) - "Master and Commander" by Patrick O'Brian

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Cyan

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I like the cut of your jib!


Master and Commander, by Patrick O'Brian

This, the first in the splendid series of Jack Aubrey novels, establishes the friendship between Captain Aubrey, R.N., and Stephen Maturin, ship's surgeon and intelligence agent, against a thrilling backdrop of the Napoleonic wars. Details of a life aboard a man-of-war are faultless rendered: the conversational idiom of the officers in the ward room and the men on the lower deck, the food, the floggings, the mysteries of the wind and the rigging, and the roar of broadsides as the great ships close in battle.

"The best historical novels ever written..."
-The New York Times

"It has been said that this series is some of the finest historical fiction of our time... Aubrey and Maturin have been described as better than Holmes and Watson, the equal of Quixote and Panza... All this is true. And the marvel is, it hardly says enough."
-Los Angeles Times

"They're funny, they're exciting, they're informative. There are legions of us who gladly ship out time and time again under Captain Aubrey."
-The New Yorker

Amazon Paperback
No Kindle edition available.

Let’s read!


Guidelines:
-If you read ahead, use spoiler tags! [spoiler]text goes here[/spoiler]
-When using spoiler tags, please mark them--put a page or chapter number, or otherwise indicate just how far ahead you are.
-Unspoilered discussion of anything through the latest milestone is allowed and encouraged. If you’re not caught up, read the thread at your own risk!
-Suggestions for the next book club selection are welcome at any time. We'll vote on the next book once we're finished with this one.


Reading Milestones:
Sun 7/3 - Ch 1-2
Wed 7/6 - Ch 3-4
Sat 7/9 - Ch 5-6
Tues 7/12 - Ch 7-8
Fri 7/15 - Ch 9-10
Mon 7/18 - End

Back to every three days this time around. Broke up neatly that way. As usual, each milestone evening I’ll make a post noting how far we are, and bring up some points of discussion.


Future Book Club Possibilities:
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexander Dumas
The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón
Dubliners by James Joyce
[your recommendation here!]


Previous Book Club Threads:
The Happiness Project, by Gretchen Rubin (June 2011)
A Visit from the Goon Squad, by Jennifer Egan (May 2011)
The Afghan Campaign, by Steven Pressfield (Apr 2011)
Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A. Heinlein (Mar 2011)
Flashman, by George MacDonald Fraser (Feb 2011)
 
These books are full of jargon and nautical flim-flammery, so to help you out we've got:

A glossary of naval terms.

And a ship diagram:
rIDQS.jpg


1. Flying jib
2. Jib
3. Fore topmast staysail
4. Fore staysail
5. Foresail or Fore course
6. Fore topsail
7. Fore topgallant
8. Main staysail
9. Main topmast staysail
10. Middle staysail
11. Main topgallant staysail
12. Mainsail or Main course
13. Main topsail
14. Main topgallant
15. Mizzen staysail
16. Mizzen topmast staysail
17. Mizzen topgallant staysail
18. Mizzen sail
19. Spanker
20. Mizzen topsail
21. Mizzen topgallant

Thanks to narag for the links!
 
ordered, though it probably won't come from amazon marketplace till after the first reading milestone. i'm a big fan of the peter weir film so i'm quite excited.
 
I'm in bro!

Sorry if I cheated, but I read the first few chapters a couple months ago. I'll join in however, and try and get it finished by the 12th. ;)




I do have to say that Aubrey comes off as more naive and socially awkward in the book.
 
I have the whole series. Been meaning to read. I might join in if I can finish my current book this weekend.
 
I read this a while ago, so I'm a little off on the details more than likely. I'll chime in if the conversation jogs my memory enough.
 
InsertNameHere said:
I read this a while ago, so I'm a little off on the details more than likely. I'll chime in if the conversation jogs my memory enough.
Click to expand...
Right on. You're definitely welcome to join in!
 
Yeah, I've been halfway through this series for a while now, so I'll be interested to see the reactions and welcome new readers to the Aubrey/Maturin fold. And if anyone isn't satisfied with the prospect of a multi-volume series of novels following Master and Commander, then CS Forester's Hornblower series is just as good.
 
I'm really enjoying this book so far. A definite change of pace from what I've been reading. What I like about it is the gentleman's conversations between Aubrey and Maturin and just the antiquated language and way of describing things. Its very charming even though I'm unclear on some of the vocabulary.

Has anyone that's reading this seen the movie? Is the movie based on this particular book or is it another one in the series?
 
Maklershed said:
I'm really enjoying this book so far. A definite change of pace from what I've been reading. What I like about it is the gentleman's conversations between Aubrey and Maturin and just the antiquated language and way of describing things. Its very charming even though I'm unclear on some of the vocabulary.

Has anyone that's reading this seen the movie? Is the movie based on this particular book or is it another one in the series?
Click to expand...

Movie is based on Far Side of the World with bits of Master & Commander and H.M.S. Surprise. It's full of other fan nods too like the cannon names if I remember IMDB trivia correctly!
 
Narag said:
Movie is based on Far Side of the World with bits of Master & Commander and H.M.S. Surprise. It's full of other fan nods too like the cannon names if I remember IMDB trivia correctly!
Click to expand...
Huh! Didn't know that. I've never seen the movie; I'll be interested to hear what people who've seen it think about the book.
 
No surprise the adaptive film turned out so well: Peter Weir is a genius. More people need to see The Way Back. Such a pity his only film since Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World--seven years apart--got buried like that.
 
By the way, if you guys love these books and ever feel like stepping into a fantasy series:

Read Temeraire.

The writer herself has said she was inspired heavily by M&C and in fact says William Laurence, the main human hero, is not only based on Aubrey, but she pictures Russel Crowe in the role. Despite some strange dragon and human scenes, the books are an analog of the Aubrey-Maturin novels, incluidng the British Naval etiquette and dialogue, and the later novels have long ocean sequences.

I can't recommend the series enough.
 
So I knocked out the first milestone this afternoon and this might be posted early but it's mostly observation and light on spoilers.

O'Brian certainly has expectations of readers to familiarize themselves with the naval terminology and rightfully so. It makes for a more difficult read but one that's more satisfying. Aubrey and Maturin interacting are real treats, especially their introduction. There's a great sense of practicality when Aubrey takes command of the Sophie as well as he's seen to be so at ease on the boat and at sea. It's such a contrast between his almost boorish behavior in the beginning and how foolish he seemed when Captain Harte chided his "late" appearance.

There's a fair amount of humor therein what with the waiter eager to dismiss Maturin from the coffeehouse, the politics of supply officers, and the Spanish/Catalan conversation that left Jack amazed. Most amusing was how differently the Sophie was portrayed depending on whomever viewed it. Jack was eager to make the most of his commission while both Dillion & Maturin had to have the ship pointed out to them.

Fun terms:
Ward's drop

cunt-splice

The wiki those are pulled from seems a nice annotation project.

bengraven said:
By the way, if you guys love these books and ever feel like stepping into a fantasy series:

Read Temeraire.

The writer herself has said she was inspired heavily by M&C and in fact says William Laurence, the main human hero, is not only based on Aubrey, but she pictures Russel Crowe in the role. Despite some strange dragon and human scenes, the books are an analog of the Aubrey-Maturin novels, incluidng the British Naval etiquette and dialogue, and the later novels have long ocean sequences.

I can't recommend the series enough.
Click to expand...

Good call there. I need to finish that series.
 
Well, I'm enjoying it so far. The main man is likable enough, and Maturin looks to make a good foil for him.

Agree with Narag on the humor and Aubrey's character. The contrasting views of the Sophie were a nice touch. And the supply man (Brown?)'s speechifying was amusing in light of the fact that they returned to him for fix-ups within hours.

Speaking of which, maybe someone can help clarify this for me: what exactly the hell happened when they were before the wind? The impression I got was Aubrey intentionally pushed too hard in order to cause... some bit or other to break. Then he could replace it with a much better bit that he already knew was available. But what was it?

Man, even with the glossaries and diagrams, I'm already having trouble with the naval jargon. Hopefully I'll have picked it up by the time they get into battles and such.

Narag said:
So I knocked out the first milestone this afternoon and this might be posted early but it's mostly observation and light on spoilers.
Click to expand...
No worries. We've yet to have any spoiler problems, and it's probably not a big deal if you're not too far ahead. Anyway, I'd rather have some discussion in the thread than stifle it for worry of spoilers. :)
 
Originally, I was under the impression Jack wanted to push the ship to its limits but was doing it by feel rather than using any sort of engineering sense.

Jack did not hear it; he was quite unconcious of the tension around him, far away in his calculations of the opposing forces - not mathematical calculations by any means, but rather sympathetic; the calculations of a rider with a new horse between his knees and a dark hedge coming.
Click to expand...

However, it looks like you're right. Here's the piece in question: http://wiki.hmssurprise.org/phase3/index.php/Yard
and a bit more info: http://wiki.hmssurprise.org/phase3/index.php/Bunt
 
I distinctly remember a lot of the ship stuff going over my head, which was okay. Just having all the terminology there and the fact that it sounded like it was being used correctly gave it a huge feeling of authenticity. I got the general impression that it was quite hard to run a ship, especially effectively.

I also remember this book made me want to play a naval simulator type of game. I settled with Pirates! but I keep looking for something that allows me to simulate older naval battles, haha.

Cyan said:
Speaking of which, maybe someone can help clarify this for me: what exactly the hell happened when they were before the wind? The impression I got was Aubrey intentionally pushed too hard in order to cause... some bit or other to break. Then he could replace it with a much better bit that he already knew was available. But what was it?
Click to expand...

Ah, yeah. I liked that about his character. He seems like he doesn't know what he's doing and that he's a bumbling captain but he actually knows exactly how to work the system in order to get what he needs. What he really knows is exactly what it's like to be a common sailor and what it takes to get them to do things, what they are capable of and what motivates them. It's pretty much the defining aspect of his character, something that sticks with him throughout the entire series, though I haven't read any other of the books. There's also a huge difference between the kind of person he's portrayed as when he's on the land and when he's at sea which makes for an interesting dichotomy alongside the differences between him and Maturin.
 
"I am so glad you saw your epop."

I doubt I'll have time to join in with reading this, but I'm one of the legion of avid fans.

Another dichotomy of the series is that Jack specialises in blowing people to bits, while Stephen's area of expertise is stitching them back together.

Can't really state my love for this series.
 
The sign of a good book: I'm starting to speed ahead of our deadlines :)

I don't have much to add to the conversation right now other than that if I didn't know better I'd assume this book wasn't written by someone in the 60s but an actual sailor from the 1700s. The essence, the terminologies, the description of each man and his job, and there's even a section where one of the men rattles off measurements of the Sophie to the inch. Amazing detail.
 
Oops, I thought I was following this thread, but I guess I hadn't been.

I'm past the first milestone now and so far liking the book okay. A lot of the naval terminology is sailing over my head, but I'm enjoying the character interactions.

Did anyone else feel like the first chapter was like the first part of a heist movie, where you're just collecting up the usual suspects?

I haven't seen the movie, but I'm sad that I know *of* the movie because now I just picture Russell Crowe as I read this and I *hate* that guy.
 
I just wrapped up chapter 4 and figured I'd give my thoughts while they're still fresh.

Chapter 3 was great. Nearly entirely conversation, it served to flesh out some already great characters. I recall on my first reading being overwhelmed by Mowett's information dump on Maturin but it seems I was supposed to be in order to better identify with Maturin. His terse one sentence replies to Mowett's paragraphs was amusing. Easily my favorite bit of this chapter was Maturin's satisfaction with the shaving portion of Dillon's dinner recollections in a callback to what was initially almost a throwaway exchange between himself and Aubrey some twenty pages previously.

I figure Dillon's recounting of his action the Dart was to ease one into future naval action as was seen in Chapter 4. It was a rather short read but the action was well done and Jack's naval prowess shines brightly. It's a nice transition though as the cruise order gives Jack the freedom necessary for better adventure as playing sheepdog was as boring to the Sophie's crew as it would be the reader given time.

Aubrey's recollections of Admiral Nelson are one of the bits lifted from Master & Commander for use in the Peter Weir film.
 
You lot reading this for the first time are so lucky. The books are fantastic. I've gotten through the first six, and I love them. I always assumed they were bloodless, humorless novels for bloodless, humorless old men. I couldn't have been more wrong. They're often hilarious, and the friendship between the main characters is my favorite in all literature.

I admit that I still don't know what half of the naval terms mean, though. I look them up and promptly forget again by the next book.
 
Damned Papists!

There's definitely a lot more humor in these books than I expected. Like flyover, I had always assumed these were more in the line of boring old sea-stories. The conversation between Maturin and Mowett was great stuff. Not to mention Aubrey's stories of how he'd met the Admiral before. Interesting that the current meeting was also done as a story rather than real-time description.

So, on to prizes. Here's something that came to mind... if by letting the cat be captured and her crew thrown overboard, then recapturing her, Sophie could have gotten prize money... well, surely you see the problem here.

Misplaced incentives, hurray!
 
I'm on chapter 6, but may need to take a break. I feel like I'm just trudging through it. Half the time, I don't know what's going on because of all the sailor-talk and the other half, I still don't know what's going on because of previously unmentioned drama. I didn't understand the whole Dillon vs. Maturin problem. What was the explanation for the awkwardness? Because one was a catholic? I'm so confused.

I did like the one part about the guy who sodomized a goat.
 
Ah, prizes! I kind of agree with Dillon that Aubrey seems kind of cuckoo-for-prizey-puffs. I suppose when you're flat broke and then some, that makes sense. But still.

The false-flag bit cracked me up. Wasn't there a Hornblower book where he got in huge trouble for sailing under a false flag? Trying to remember it, but it's been ages since I read any of them.

Lots of little details here that were fun or interesting. The flogging where the guy mostly just hits the pole they're tied too, but they shriek anyway, and he freaks out and actually hits them. Maturin getting excited about the remora, but also annoyed because dammit, remoras can't slow down ships! Oh, and Aubrey's shocking joke at the party was pretty awesome. Given the era, I couldn't help but imagine how Jane Eyre or the Bennett girls would take that little joke. Hehe.

nakedsushi said:
I'm on chapter 6, but may need to take a break. I feel like I'm just trudging through it. Half the time, I don't know what's going on because of all the sailor-talk and the other half, I still don't know what's going on because of previously unmentioned drama. I didn't understand the whole Dillon vs. Maturin problem. What was the explanation for the awkwardness? Because one was a catholic? I'm so confused.
Click to expand...
The impression I got was more that Maturin was friends with Dillon from before, when they were in that Irish Republican group together, and that he can't see why his old friend Dillon dislikes his new friend Aubrey.
 
Just rented Master and Commander from Netflix. Good movie. Seeing the ship and the riggings and such will really help me imagine the action when I pick up the series again after ADWD.
 
Dillon is a funny dude. He seemed to have come to like Cap'n Jack, but now he's mad again? Why's he mad at the Captain and not the priest?

That whole situation with the fugitives was actually kind of funny. Reminded me of being a kid, and you intend to do something or are planning to do something, but then your mom or dad orders you to do it and you balk. That used to frustrate the hell out of me as a kid. Still does, come to think of it. It just happens less often these days. ;)

I suppose it's somewhat more salient in Dillon's case, since it's a matter of blackmail and not squirming under your parents' thumb.
 
Sorry guys, I put this book on hold (got done with half of it) since I got Dance with Dragons. I was getting bored of not knowing what was going on on the ship lol.
 
Cacafuego! Some interesting stuff in these chapters, including some words of wisdom from the doctor, but it's all sort of overwhelmed by the action. Cacafuego! It just rolls off the tongue.

I suppose it's Dillon's constant, almost subconscious pushing that gets Jack to finally abandon reason and do something totally rash and spectacular. And spectacular it was! At this point, I've absorbed enough of the lingo (or at least, I have a vague understanding and the feel of it, enough to ride on through vast swathes of it without getting hung up on meanings) that I could actually picture events in my head as they happened. Boom! Crash! Smash! Slice!

And it ended as it had to. There was only one destination Dillon's path could ultimately bring him to. Unfortunate that he and Aubrey never quite became friends--there's a point I agree with the doctor on.

P.S. White as the clouds beneath the blaze of noon
Her bottom through translucent waters shone.

Tee hee!
 
^ Coincidentally I just saw a thing about the real Cacafuego (which means Spitfire) on a show about Pirates from History Channel. Its real name was the Senora de la Concepcion. Francis Drake captured it by pretending to be a merchant vessel and sidling up to it and blasting away. He got so much heat from the Spanish after he did it that he couldn't go straight back to England. He had to sail east and go around the world to get back. Queen Elizabeth was so pleased with the capture that she instantly knighted Francis Drake despite Spain's request to extradite him (to be executed) which was kind of ballsy thing to do considering the two countries weren't at war at the time. It was one of, if not the largest privateering captures in history.
 
An excellent yarn, featuring enjoyable characters, more than adequate prose, and from what I can tell, enough research to sink a barca-longa. From their memorable first meeting onward, Aubrey and Maturin play off each other beautifully, lending humor and charm to most of their interactions. Many of the secondary characters are well-realized as well, from the torn and angry Lieutenant Dillon, to the amateur poet Mowett, to the nasty and vengeful Captain Harte.

The thing that I thought would most trouble me in this book was the jargon. Royals, taffrails, quarter-decks, master's mates, all the bloody masts and ropes and sails. Well, after the first few chapters I got over it. I never was 100% sure what was going down in any given scene that involved seas of jargon, but I had enough idea that it was fairly clear and didn't trip me up. No, my fears there were overblown.

What wound up bothering me more was the lack of a central plot. The book's structure and story are best described as episodic, TV-like. That is, each chapter felt like a single episode in one season of a TV series. Problems would crop up and be resolved within the chapter. The situation would change, then return to status quo by the end of the chapter. Some arcs and undercurrents carried over, but there was no strong, underlying narrative to carry the book. And the ending felt rather like a season finale--unsatisfying, more there to draw you along to the next season than to end the story.

Still, I enjoyed the tale, just not as much as I would have if it had been a bit more structured. Haven't decided yet if I'll read the next one. Maybe later.
 
Yeah the vocabulary/terminologies was a little difficult to follow but overall I really enjoyed the book. I particularly enjoyed the conversations between Aubrey and Maturin. I definitely plan to read more in the series after I'm finished with ADWD and Sorrow, Memory, and Thorn.
 
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