• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

GAF Book Club (Apr 2011) - "The Afghan Campaign" by Steven Pressfield

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Cyan

Banned
wRAub.jpg


Never start a land war in Asia.


The Afghan Campaign, by Steven Pressfield

In words that might have been ripped from today’s combat dispatches, Steven Pressfield, the bestselling novelist of ancient warfare, returns with a riveting historical novel that re-creates Alexander the Great’s invasion of the Afghan kingdoms in 330 B.C., a campaign that eerily foreshadows the tactics, terrors, and frustrations of contemporary conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

An edge-of-your-seat adventure that brings to life the confrontation between an invading Western army and fierce Eastern warriors determined at all costs to defend their homeland, The Afghan Campaign once again demonstrates Steven Pressfield’s profound understanding of the hopes and desperation of men in battle and of the historical realities that continue to influence our world.

Amazon Paperback. Kindle Ebook.
(or, check your local library!)

Let’s read!


Guidelines:
-If you read ahead, use spoiler tags!
text goes here[./spoiler]
-When using spoiler tags, please mark them--put a page or chapter number, or otherwise indicate just how far ahead you are.
-Unspoilered discussion of anything through the latest milestone is allowed and encouraged. If you’re not caught up, read the thread at your own risk!
-Suggestions for the next book club selection are welcome at any time. We'll vote on the next book around the 21st.


Reading Milestones:
Sun 4/3 - Prologue & Book 1
Wed 4/6 - Book 2
Sat 4/9 - Book 3 (short)
Tue 4/12 - Book 4
Fri 4/15 - Book 5 & 6
Mon 4/18 - Book 7
Thu 4/21 - Book 8 & Epilogue
The book splits up quite conveniently into chunks of ~50 pages. We're going to try finishing a little earlier this time, and leave some time for final post-read discussion of the book.

Each milestone evening I’ll make a post noting how far we are, and perhaps bring up some points of discussion.


Future Book Club Possibilities:
The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell
Wild Seed by Octavia Butler
Heroes Die by Matthew Stover
The Information by James Gleick
Franny & Zooey by J.D. Salinger
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith
[your recommendation here!]


Previous Book Club Threads:
Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A. Heinlein (Mar 2011)
Flashman, by George MacDonald Fraser (Feb 2011)
 
A

Attackthebase

Member
I am going to try to participate in this month's book club. The book is currently being held at my library, so I'll pick it up sometime Tuesday. Depending on how rigid my school load is will determine if I can keep up with the pace. I'll probably have a hard time making the milestone! :-D

And perhaps a possible book for next month is Cloud Atlas.
 
D

Dresden

Member
I'll be keeping to the milestones, although it's tempting to just get this done right away--it's a very fast read from the little of it that I glanced over. Not sure if I dig the terse prose that he's adopted for this character.

Also want to put this up as a recommendation:

249781462-0-m.jpg


Octavia Butler's Wild Seed.

Wild Seed follows the lives of two immortal beings, from 1690 to 1840: Doro, who can shift his “life essence” into the bodies of other people by will, causing their souls or essences to die; and Anyanwu, an Onitsha-Ibo (African) woman who possesses powerful healing skills and the ability to shape-shift, to take any human or animal shape. The story centers on Doro’s struggle to create a race of immortals with extraordinary powers and Anyanwu’s resistance to the cruelty of his methods.
Click to expand...
As for the author:
Octavia Estelle Butler (June 22, 1947- February 24, 2006) was an American science fiction writer, one of very few African-American women in the field. She won both Hugo and Nebula awards. In 1995, she became the first science fiction writer to receive MacArthur Foundation "Genius" Grant.
Click to expand...
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Cool, added to OP. I know I've heard of Wild Seed before, though I've never read it.

Both books sound interesting!
 
M

Maklershed

Member
I've read Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents by Butler and they're both excellent.

I also have Kindred in the backlog waiting to go.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
Already read the last two Book Club books, so this one should be interesting.

Butler could be cool, although I sort of wanted The Last Dangerous Visions to be my first exposure to her for reasons of insanity and procrastination and alleviating potential pressure on my backlog. And Cloud Atlas is on my Kindle, so that would be pleasantly convenient. However, I have to push an alternative (and copy/paste from my post in another thread) since I feel like a re-read:



Heroes Die by Matthew Stover

Stover is one of those people who is quietly among the best at what they do without anyone really noticing. Heroes Die follows Hari Michaelson in a very real secondary world - Overworld - that Earth corporations have discovered and transplanted with "actors", who partake in brutal adventures to entertain the masses of an overcrowded and oppressed future dystopia. Known as Caine to most, either as a movie star-like celebrity on Earth or a legendary assassin on Overworld, he must defeat the manipulations of the powerful on both worlds to save the life of his estranged, fellow "actor", wife.

Scalzi kinda nails it:


Here’s why I know that “handselling” — the act of someone saying to you “Dude, you have to buy this book” and then putting the book into your hands — actually works: A couple years ago, when I did an appearance at the Joseph-Beth bookstore in Cincinnati, the science fiction buyer for the store and I were talking about books (no surprise) and he mentioned Matthew Stover and his book Heroes Die, featuring a badass character named Caine. I allowed that I’d never heard of it, and the buyer stopped the conversation, went into the shelves, retreived the book and said, “Here. You must have this.” Well, who was I to argue? I took it.

And the guy was right, because Caine, and Heroes Die, was a heaping plate of kickass kickassery with a side of kickass sauce. Caine himself was a perfect anti-hero: tough, smart and ready to take part in a series of truly excellent action sequences, set in a world that’s half science fiction, half fantasy and all brilliantly conceived and pulled off. I got sucked right through the book and when I was done, I did not stop at “go” or collect $200, but instead went directly to Blade of Tyshalle, the sequel. So, yeah, I’m a fan, of both Caine and Stover.​
 
E

eznark

Banned
I am going to try reading according to the milestones. I already have a bit of a headstart but I'm not done with book I yet.

Looking forward to it!
 
D

Dresden

Member
I'm sorry guys, I think I'm on Book Five now. :( Enjoyed it too much. Lol.

It's quite a badass read. The story progresses steadily and violently. Good stuff so far.
 
E

eznark

Banned
I'm not sure I love the style of writing. I kind of like books about ancient periods to have an "ancient" feel to them. I feel like all of the dialog and terminology is too modern day. It sounds like Pressfield is using too much modern military lingo. I get that the point is pretty much to show that "war, war never changes" and stuff but I'm not loving the on the nose stuff.

Overall though I am definitely enjoying it so far. I am through book I but won't discuss any details til next week.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
I can def. second HEROE'S DIE, i've had this one my shelf for a couple years and have been trying to get around to reading it. GAF book club for, say, may or june, would be the perfect excuse.

although I think we should try to get Atlas Shrugged in sometime this summer.
 
A

Attackthebase

Member
zmoney said:
I can def. second HEROE'S DIE, i've had this one my shelf for a couple years and have been trying to get around to reading it. GAF book club for, say, may or june, would be the perfect excuse.

although I think we should try to get Atlas Shrugged in sometime this summer.
Click to expand...

I agree, summer is the only time when school-Gaf will have time to read it. I can't expect to read a massive tome during the semester!
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
zmoney said:
I can def. second HEROE'S DIE, i've had this one my shelf for a couple years and have been trying to get around to reading it. GAF book club for, say, may or june, would be the perfect excuse.
Click to expand...

Definitely should.

zmoney said:
although I think we should try to get Atlas Shrugged never.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
Definitely should.



Sounds about right.
Click to expand...


any particular complaint with Atlas Shrugged? and i'll get on heroes die once finals are over in may, unless we plan on making it a GAF book and then I'll hold out so i can discuss it with y'all.

coldvein said:
back from banland just in time for a new book club book, shweet.
Click to expand...

Welcome back.
 
D

Dresden

Member
I think it's a bad book, but that's about it. Feel free to put it up, though, it's a free country!

I meant to keep up with the milestones, but I accidentally the whole book. :( I'll pop in whenever the milestone-dates come up for the discussion, though. I do have some complaints about the novel--eznark's concerns being one of them--but I'll save it for later; overall, it was a very enjoyable read.
 
D

Dresden

Member
Cyan said:
It's not even April yet, ya bastid!
Click to expand...
I have no self-control. :(
Tim the Wiz said:
When are you getting on Goodreads, Dresden? I want to dissect your reading habits, damnit.
Click to expand...
e: I just made one, but the thought of adding up my books gives me the chills. Maybe later.
 
E

eznark

Banned
I actually really like Goodreads, I wish I knew more people that used it. Maybe I just don't know enough people who read.
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
eznark said:
I actually really like Goodreads, I wish I knew more people that used it. Maybe I just don't know enough people who read.
Click to expand...

Yeah, one of the selling points and pitfalls of Goodreads is that it's very social. If you know a lot of people on it, the product is GREAT and you end up building a huge to-read list and getting excited by all the books people are reading. Unfortunately, when you first join and don't have that many friends, the site's not as useful.

I usually don't accept random friend invites, but mention you're from GAF and we can be gr friends =)

http://www.goodreads.com/nakedsushi
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
And Cloud Atlas is on my Kindle, so that would be pleasantly convenient. However, I have to push an alternative (and copy/paste from my post in another thread) since I feel like a re-read:



Heroes Die by Matthew Stover
Click to expand...

Cloud Atlas is such an awesome book, I hope you don't wait till it gets nominated to read it.

I added Heroes Die to my to-read list, but WTF spoiler title =(
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
I'm 6 chapters into part 1 right now...does anyone else not like the writing style? I feel like I'm reading something written by a high schooler...the story isn't that bad though. I'll reserve any further judgement until I get through another part or two.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
Already read the last two Book Club books, so this one should be interesting.

Butler could be cool, although I sort of wanted The Last Dangerous Visions to be my first exposure to her for reasons of insanity and procrastination and alleviating potential pressure on my backlog. And Cloud Atlas is on my Kindle, so that would be pleasantly convenient. However, I have to push an alternative (and copy/paste from my post in another thread) since I feel like a re-read:



Heroes Die by Matthew Stover

Stover is one of those people who is quietly among the best at what they do without anyone really noticing. Heroes Die follows Hari Michaelson in a very real secondary world - Overworld - that Earth corporations have discovered and transplanted with "actors", who partake in brutal adventures to entertain the masses of an overcrowded and oppressed future dystopia. Known as Caine to most, either as a movie star-like celebrity on Earth or a legendary assassin on Overworld, he must defeat the manipulations of the powerful on both worlds to save the life of his estranged, fellow "actor", wife.

Scalzi kinda nails it:


Here’s why I know that “handselling” — the act of someone saying to you “Dude, you have to buy this book” and then putting the book into your hands — actually works: A couple years ago, when I did an appearance at the Joseph-Beth bookstore in Cincinnati, the science fiction buyer for the store and I were talking about books (no surprise) and he mentioned Matthew Stover and his book Heroes Die, featuring a badass character named Caine. I allowed that I’d never heard of it, and the buyer stopped the conversation, went into the shelves, retreived the book and said, “Here. You must have this.” Well, who was I to argue? I took it.

And the guy was right, because Caine, and Heroes Die, was a heaping plate of kickass kickassery with a side of kickass sauce. Caine himself was a perfect anti-hero: tough, smart and ready to take part in a series of truly excellent action sequences, set in a world that’s half science fiction, half fantasy and all brilliantly conceived and pulled off. I got sucked right through the book and when I was done, I did not stop at “go” or collect $200, but instead went directly to Blade of Tyshalle, the sequel. So, yeah, I’m a fan, of both Caine and Stover.​
Click to expand...


HAHAHAHA that dude did the same damn thing to me...his name is Brian lol
 
E

eznark

Banned
zmoney said:
I'm 6 chapters into part 1 right now...does anyone else not like the writing style? I feel like I'm reading something written by a high schooler...the story isn't that bad though. I'll reserve any further judgement until I get through another part or two.
Click to expand...

I'm halfway through part two and it's intentional...to a point. I can tell what he is trying to do and honestly it does work on its face, but the first book I found difficult to get through because of his ultimate goal.
 
K

KidDork

Member
Just reserved this at the library, and will pick it up Thursday.

I missed last month's book, but I was here for Flashman. Afghanistan may be a theme this year at this rate.
 
J

justin.au

Member
Just finished completed Milestone 1.

I started off hating this book. The writing style of the Prologue didn't work for me at all, and the way he jimmied historical facts into the writing in the first few chapters was really grating. At around Chapter 5, the writing style started to annoy me less (perhaps this was because he was including less "history" in the prose, or perhaps I was just getting used to the simplistic sentence structures).

Anyhow, I haven't really connected with Matthias yet. I thought I should have felt something during the ransacking of the village, but I was just indifferent to it all.

Hopefully the book continues to improve.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Well, 60 pages in and our main character still feels pretty generic and dull. Honestly, his name would come up and I'd have to take a moment to remember it was him. So far, just reads like any other green, reluctant soldier on a battlefield.

As others have mentioned, not a huge fan of the writing, either. Really does feel like he's intentionally aping modern stuff, making allusions to America especially. Oh, they call enemy Afghans a generic first name, do they? Gee, what could that be in reference to?

Ah well. Only a little ways in so far. Hopefully it gets more interesting.

The rest of you guys enjoying it? Writing style ok, or annoying?
 
M

Maklershed

Member
I'm enjoying it so far. It reminds me a lot of Gates of Fire (no surprise there I suppose eh?). I thought the most interesting bit so far was that while the lower ranked guys would go to war piss drunk that the captains and higher ranked guys were whacked out on what I suppose would the equivalent of heroin. Also found it interesting that young soldiers basically had to bribe/pay their way into the ranks.

I thought the first milestone flew by and I was honestly finding it difficult to stop myself at book 1.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Maklershed said:
I thought the most interesting bit so far was that while the lower ranked guys would go to war piss drunk that the captains and higher ranked guys were whacked out on what I suppose would the equivalent of heroin. Also found it interesting that young soldiers basically had to bribe/pay their way into the ranks.
Click to expand...
Yeah, some of these odd historical bits (Pressfield must've done some damn good research) have been really interesting to read about. You'd think the Afghans would figure out to attack them while they're all still too hungover to fight properly.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
Cyan said:
Well, 60 pages in and our main character still feels pretty generic and dull. Honestly, his name would come up and I'd have to take a moment to remember it was him. So far, just reads like any other green, reluctant soldier on a battlefield.

As others have mentioned, not a huge fan of the writing, either. Really does feel like he's intentionally aping modern stuff, making allusions to America especially. Oh, they call enemy Afghans a generic first name, do they? Gee, what could that be in reference to?

Ah well. Only a little ways in so far. Hopefully it gets more interesting.

The rest of you guys enjoying it? Writing style ok, or annoying?
Click to expand...


Agree about the main character. I read the first 60 or so pages a few days ago and had to put the book aside because of school work that needed to get done, and the only thing I remember is his trip to Afghanistan, nothing really specific.

As for the writing style it feels....childish. I don't think thats the best word, but it's almost like a high schooler wrote it, the story seems good, but the writing style is just slightly off putting. I'm probably just spoiled because my last two books were a re-read of Game of Thrones by George RR Martin and Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss.
 
D

Dresden

Member
zmoney said:
As for the writing style it feels....childish. I don't think thats the best word, but it's almost like a high schooler wrote it, the story seems good, but the writing style is just slightly off putting. I'm probably just spoiled because my last two books were a re-read of Game of Thrones by George RR Martin and Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss.
Click to expand...
He's writing with Matthias's voice in mind. The character is a young man who's trained for war all his life, who can barely read or write. I think it works, although it did put me off until Book 2 or so.

And yeah, the slang that he adopts for the Macedonians is rather annoying. I don't remember him doing this for the Athenians or the Spartans in his earlier novels, so it really does come off as a deliberate attempt at tying this to the modern, which is unnecessary considering what's to come.
 
K

KidDork

Member
I don't mind the style. I'm also reading The WindUp Bird Chronicle, so it's a nice change from Murakami's more dense style. As for the modern language, I think it makes the story more accessible for a modern reader, with the tone of the language being the same across the centuries.

The violence is shocking, which it should be. I've never read this author before, and I was wondering how he would approach war. The transformative effects of the horror was very strong by the end of Book One, which I was happy to see. I was worried this would be a celebration of Ancient Go Joes! along the lines of 300.

Already more than halfway through Book 2.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Cyan said:
Yeah, some of these odd historical bits (Pressfield must've done some damn good research) have been really interesting to read about. You'd think the Afghans would figure out to attack them while they're all still too hungover to fight properly.
Click to expand...

That's what I found the most interesting in that part. The method to which these Macedonians found their way into Alexander's army. I had never really pondered the logistics before but that shed some light on it (assuming its historically accurate).

I feel like the writing gets a little less heavy handed further along. It's clear that in Book I Pressfield is trying to say "war...war never changes" and that he went through a lot of the same shit as the grunts in Alexander's army when Pressfield was in Afghanistan as a marine. I haven't read a lot of his stuff, but this feel autobiographical in a lot of ways, and it makes me wonder (since I am a few books in now) just what kind of things he did while he was a Marine, or if this is Winter Soldier type stuff.

I won't say any more since I am not sure in my head where book I ends, but it gets a lot better and you can tell the style in book I was intentional.

He's writing with Matthias's voice in mind. The character is a young man who's trained for war all his life, who can barely read or write. I think it works, although it did put me off until Book 2 or so.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, this is a key component and doesn't really become clear until Matthias grows up, and the writing style changes to suit.

And yeah, the slang that he adopts for the Macedonians is rather annoying. I don't remember him doing this for the Athenians or the Spartans in his earlier novels, so it really does come off as a deliberate attempt at tying this to the modern, which is unnecessary considering what's to come.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree and kind of disagree. Yes, it's a sledgehammer driving in a finishing nail, but it definitely gets the job done. For most of the first book you'd be hard pressed to decipher between an Alexandrian "Mack" and a US Marine, which is the point of the entire book.
 
D

Dresden

Member
eznark said:
I kind of agree and kind of disagree. Yes, it's a sledgehammer driving in a finishing nail, but it definitely gets the job done. For most of the first book you'd be hard pressed to decipher between an Alexandrian "Mack" and a US Marine, which is the point of the entire book.
Click to expand...
It's still very heavy-handed. As the story progresses I think enough shit happens that, even without all the slang he adopts for the "Mack" army the parallels between the shit back then and the shit going on now would've stood strong. There was a point that he really wanted to get across, and so he hammers it in, which is rather annoying. His earlier books had no trouble drawing parallels between the past and present even while employing dozens of Greek and Latin terms, so it just felt unnecessary here.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Dresden said:
It's still very heavy-handed. As the story progresses I think enough shit happens that, even without all the slang he adopts for the "Mack" army the parallels between the shit back then and the shit going on now would've stood strong. There was a point that he really wanted to get across, and so he hammers it in, which is rather annoying. His earlier books had no trouble drawing parallels between the past and present even while employing dozens of Greek and Latin terms, so it just felt unnecessary here.
Click to expand...

I think it's a function of this being somewhat more personal? I don't know, that's how I felt. You could also see Book I being so foreign that the message gets lost without the ties to modern military.

I agree with you that it is absurdly heavy handed and annoying though.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Still not really feeling the modern bits. There were a few phrases or word choices that just had me rolling my eyes. The reporters traveling the front lines were especially eye-roll worthy. Same with the white knighting with Biscuits. I have no idea if that would've been a common attitude in Ancient Greece, but given the rest, I'm not inclined to give our man Pressfield the benefit of the doubt.

So, on to the good: Alexander is way awesome. I know we're seeing this through the eyes of a kid who worships him, but he's worship-worthy. Sticks with the common soldiers, never hesitates to get his hands dirty. I like it.

Next up: the plains. Wait, up in the mountains? Um... anyone else having trouble keeping track of the geography here? (I just checked the map, and I'm apparently even more clueless than I thought.) Any thoughts on reporters and white knights?
 
D

Dresden

Member
Costas sucks. He's only there so Pressfield can make a comment on the presence of the media in modern war. It's heavy-handed like a lot of other things about the novel--and it's so bothersome because these are gestures that he'd refrained from making on his earlier, better, novels. He had a message™ to deliver and it hurts the work overall.

As for the white-knighting, I wasn't bothered by it. They're still governed (early on at least) by a code of honor permissible in a more conventional battlefield. Chivalry and whatnot would certainly have been honored, and it's no surprise, I think, that Matthias would stand by such ideals.
 
J

justin.au

Member
Just finished Milestone 2.

Pressfield isn't exactly a subtle writer is he? He smacks us over the head with Costas, and then follows it up with Ash's dialogue about how the enemy will just tire you out and then run you over. HEY LOOK GUYS! LOOK AT THESE CHARACTERS! SEE HOW WAR HASN'T CHANGED! HERE LOOK I'LL SPELL IT OUT AGAIN IN CASE YOU DIDN'T GET IT THE FIRST FIVE TIMES.

I don't have any moral or ideological issues with any of the points he raises, but damn, his style is awful.

Not enjoying this book.
 
J

justin.au

Member
Nope, just finished Milestone 3 and started a bit of 4, and I'm out. The style is too grating, the characters are clichéd husks and the plot is nothing revolutionary. I see no reason to continue reading this book, so I shan't.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Wow, that was a quick one.

So, I've been reading the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. And let me tell you... after that assault of verbiage, coming back to the Campaign was a breath of fresh air. I was relieved to return to laconic Matthias.

So just what is up with Afghan women?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
331 332 333 334 335
17K
1M
Night.Ninja replied
The Expanse |Book Series OT| Doors and corners, kid [SPOILERS]
2
54
8K
The Sum of Zero replied
  • Locked
Hawkeye by Matt Fraction February Comic Book Club |OT| Everything Awful, Bro
2 3 4 5
204
20K
Sinatar replied
  • Locked
Transformers More than meets the eye is one of the best comics you haven't read
2 3 4 5
202
38K
Weltall Zero replied
Anne |OT| From Crystal Blue to 'E' (Netflix May 12th)
29
5K
Grizzlyjin replied
Top Bottom