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GAF Book Club (Apr 2011) - "The Afghan Campaign" by Steven Pressfield
- Thread starter Cyan
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Maklershed
Member
So I kept myself from reading ahead and now I can't keep up with the milestones. Oh well. Working on it now. I'm really digging this book so far. Don't quite understand the hate. Maybe I'm just not far enough?
Hup! Forgot to update yesterday. I'm not entirely finished with Book 4, but I won't have a chance until late tonight anyway, so whatevs.
This part really gets into the intentional modern parallels hard, with the reporter dude and the town fighting. And the Dear John letter! I suppose if they had functioning post, they probably did have those in the days of Alexander.
The main dude's brother being poisoned kind of came out of nowhere. Was his mistress an Afghan woman? I must have missed that.
This part really gets into the intentional modern parallels hard, with the reporter dude and the town fighting. And the Dear John letter! I suppose if they had functioning post, they probably did have those in the days of Alexander.
The main dude's brother being poisoned kind of came out of nowhere. Was his mistress an Afghan woman? I must have missed that.
Maklershed
Member
I just got to Book 3. The stuff about how Afghan women were treated is astonishing. Mules were more valuable. And the really crazy nonsense was the rule about insulting someone by doing something they should've done. Does anyone know if that still exists? Lazy people and procrastinators must get in a lot of fights in Afghanistan.
Maklershed
Member
Really enjoying the book. Looks like the army is starting to lose morale and is finally realizing that they're in for a tougher campaign than expected. Also, I wonder if Daria murdering Elias is going to cause a crimp in the relationship of Shinar and Matthias.
And since I'm just now caught up (actually ahead of where I should be) and I can comment on it .. that part with the massacre at the Miracle Pass was intense. I felt nervous just reading it. It must be absolutely terrifying to realize you've lost the skirmish before it has even started. Also, I had goosebumps reading the description of Alexander unleashing the hidden catapults when crossing the river. I was so happy they were getting vengeance. I guess I should technically be rooting for the Afghans since the Macedonians are the invaders and are attacking unprovoked but obviously I'm not.
And since I'm just now caught up (actually ahead of where I should be) and I can comment on it .. that part with the massacre at the Miracle Pass was intense. I felt nervous just reading it. It must be absolutely terrifying to realize you've lost the skirmish before it has even started. Also, I had goosebumps reading the description of Alexander unleashing the hidden catapults when crossing the river. I was so happy they were getting vengeance. I guess I should technically be rooting for the Afghans since the Macedonians are the invaders and are attacking unprovoked but obviously I'm not.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Maybe it's just me, but I find modern profanity juxtaposed with foreign terms to be a little silly. Can't they employ Greek profanity?
Maklershed
Member
Finished the book today. I couldn't help it. Anyone else who read both enjoy it more than Gates of Fire?
Somehow I must have skipped ahead and then back, because the poisoning happened in Book 6, not 4. Bah, I dunno. Hard to tell, since they're constantly back and forth between the same two cities. And the narrative isn't always straightforward.
Honestly, the army camp stuff where they're interacting with the women, the locals, and each other, is a lot more interesting than the actual combat. Seems more likely to be historically accurate, too.
And I just realized Maracanda is Samarkand.
Honestly, the army camp stuff where they're interacting with the women, the locals, and each other, is a lot more interesting than the actual combat. Seems more likely to be historically accurate, too.
And I just realized Maracanda is Samarkand.
I hate to keep beating the same drum, but the modern parallels here stick out like a sore thumb. Operation Summer Thunder, the journalist again, the dude being forced to sign a statement that's false, to cover up what really happened for propaganda purposes.
Come the fuck on.
It's too bad, because the other stuff is cool. Interesting to see what Greek tactics and strategy look like when they're successful. Also interesting how they mirror one another--the strategy to bottle up Spitamenes with a system of forts, and force his back to the wall so he'd have to meet them in straight-up battle. The tactic of bottling up the enemy cavalry as though they had their backs to a river or chasm. Good stuff.
He doesn't say, but I assume our hero caved and signed the propaganda thingy.
Anyone else still reading, or shall we move on to the end and final reviews?
Come the fuck on.
It's too bad, because the other stuff is cool. Interesting to see what Greek tactics and strategy look like when they're successful. Also interesting how they mirror one another--the strategy to bottle up Spitamenes with a system of forts, and force his back to the wall so he'd have to meet them in straight-up battle. The tactic of bottling up the enemy cavalry as though they had their backs to a river or chasm. Good stuff.
He doesn't say, but I assume our hero caved and signed the propaganda thingy.
Anyone else still reading, or shall we move on to the end and final reviews?
Ok, bored of talking to myself, so I'll end here. Feel free to post final reviews, including as many spoilers as you like.
My final review:
I wanted to like this book, but somehow it never quite clicked.
The two-by-four parallels to modern times almost never let up, and it was more irritating than enlightening. Yes, yes, I get it. War never changes, American soldiers are just like ancient Greek soldiers, etc. Could've been a lot more subtle. I mean, embedded reporters, really?
The other issue was that I never really connected with any of the characters. It always felt like there must be something to them, I just wasn't seeing it. Too many of the potentially powerful scenes were in narrative summary rather than in-the-moment action. Sucked out most of the impact.
The ending was inevitable, after what had happened through the rest of the book, but still managed to be affecting. People never change, really.
War is hell.
My final review:
I wanted to like this book, but somehow it never quite clicked.
The two-by-four parallels to modern times almost never let up, and it was more irritating than enlightening. Yes, yes, I get it. War never changes, American soldiers are just like ancient Greek soldiers, etc. Could've been a lot more subtle. I mean, embedded reporters, really?
The other issue was that I never really connected with any of the characters. It always felt like there must be something to them, I just wasn't seeing it. Too many of the potentially powerful scenes were in narrative summary rather than in-the-moment action. Sucked out most of the impact.
The ending was inevitable, after what had happened through the rest of the book, but still managed to be affecting. People never change, really.
War is hell.
I'd like to nominate Franny and Zooey
for May. I think the shortness of the story and its well-known nature may encourage literary discussion.
How the hell do you pronounce Zooey anyway?
This is a drunk as fuck post so I apologise for any crazy talk.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Cyan said:
Yeah it was hard to sympathize with the narrator at the end. Beginning the book in media res (sort of) ruined
Lucas's death.
I did like how he covered lesser-known aspects of the army, but the author kind of ruins it by saying "the women" over and over again. They're strong and resourceful but never given personalities.
Sure, I'll add it to the list. Though its shortness may make it inappropriate for this type of reading group.justin.au said:
Also added Egan's A Visit from the Goon Squad, since it just won the Pulitzer and all.
I'll wait another day or two before we vote, in case people have further comments on the April book.
And it spoiled the eventual relationship with Shinar. When her real name first popped up, I recognized it, flipped back, and sure enough...Lone_Prodigy said:
*shrug* Not sure why the author would want to do it that way, but oh well.
nakedsushi
Member
Cyan said:
Oh *now* you want to read Visit from the Goon Squad and not when I recommended it last month? =P Just kidding. Great, great book and definitely worthy of the Pulitzer. My vote's for that.
Looks like we've about wrapped it up here, so let's move on to deciding what we're reading next! We've got plenty of options to choose from:
Non-fiction:
The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin
The Information A History, A Theory, A Flood by James Gleick
General Fiction:
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell
Franny and Zooey by J.D. Salinger
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith
Science Fiction:
Heroes Die by Matthew Stover
Wild Seed by Octavia E. Butler
Voting open until the end of the weekend.
Non-fiction:
The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin
The Information A History, A Theory, A Flood by James Gleick
General Fiction:
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell
Franny and Zooey by J.D. Salinger
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith
Science Fiction:
Heroes Die by Matthew Stover
Wild Seed by Octavia E. Butler
Voting open until the end of the weekend.
My top choices are either of the non-fiction books (especially Happiness Project), or Goon Squad or Cloud Atlas.
Not too excited about Heroes Die or Wild Seed as they're the sort of thing I'd read on my own anyway. I want to try something different, something that's a bit more of a stretch, and something where we can get some good discussion going on.
Not too excited about Heroes Die or Wild Seed as they're the sort of thing I'd read on my own anyway. I want to try something different, something that's a bit more of a stretch, and something where we can get some good discussion going on.
nakedsushi
Member
My vote is for Goon Squad
afternoon delight
Member
Franny and Zooey, it's short and wonderful.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
This would be my first book club read, but I toss my vote in for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn since I nominated it. I've read a part of it, and what I read was absolutely phenomenal.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Stover, son. Cloud Atlas or Goon Squad close runner-ups.
A lot of multiple votes here. I vote for Goon Squad, which gives us:
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan - 2+
Franny & Zooey by J.D. Salinger - 2+
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith - 1+
Heroes Die by Matthew Stover - 1+
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell - ++
The Information by James Gleick - +
(using pluses to indicate partial votes; votes where people said several titles)
Basically tied between Goon Squad and Franny. Unless there's an outcry, I'll go ahead and give it to Goon Squad.
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan - 2+
Franny & Zooey by J.D. Salinger - 2+
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith - 1+
Heroes Die by Matthew Stover - 1+
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell - ++
The Information by James Gleick - +
(using pluses to indicate partial votes; votes where people said several titles)
Basically tied between Goon Squad and Franny. Unless there's an outcry, I'll go ahead and give it to Goon Squad.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Yeah, I'm cool with Goon Squad. Will be interesting to see if it's worthy of the hype.
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