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Gamepad support for Diablo III?

Kalnos

Banned
Anteater said:
Was torchlight dumbed down to fit the control pad's control scheme

I really like Torchlight but the abilities in the game weren't nearly as sophisticated as Diablo 2's and thus translated very easily to a pad. The game had a ton of passive skills and most of the self-activated ones were either direct attacks, pets, or AoE that came directly from your characters center.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
FieryBalrog said:
I have no problem if they dumb down D3 if/when the port it to consoles.
This is kind of my point. I don't care what they do with the console port. Just leave the PC version alone for those of us who actually like having access to 20 hotkeys.
 
lightless_shado said:
Tell me, do you think that this could be managed easily with a controller?
people are assuming he's trolling because what he's proposing makes no fucking sense. There's a reason why starcraft doesnt have gamepad support. There's a reason why World of Warcraft doesn't have it either. The company is not one that has a record of doing this shit. If you want to play with a console controller, look for the console version of the game.
No reason you can't take your hand off the controller to use the keyboard for menus. Best of both worlds!

Littlegator said:
Probably because you're playing TF2 on pubs where everyone is miserable. Even moreso, now that it's free.

Diablo doesn't use WASD.
Yep, and I'm having a good time with it to. When I can't play with anyone at my skill level, and if I feel like the controller is the thing holding me back (which at the moment it isn't), I'll consider moving on. Until then, I'm having fun with a controller. My WASD comment was meant to be in reply to his comment about FPSs.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
lightless_shado said:
I've got good news for you "big comfy couch" guys

That 40inch flatscreen you bought for your HD console games? you can hook your PC up to that!

But what about the wires attached to the keyboard and mouse? you ask

well guess what?!

http://gallery.techarena.in/data/513/Logitech2.JPG[IMG]

Wow![/QUOTE]Not sure if serious
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Worst part of Diablo 2 'clicking'...my ranged character accidentally moves into a hoard of enemies because I was a pixel off and the ground was selected instead of the enemy. Shit never ever happens on a gamepad. Bugged the piss out of me in Torchlight, DII, and Titan Quest.

Gamepad would work fine, and has been proven viable in the past.
 

Zzoram

Member
Kalnos said:
I really like Torchlight but the abilities in the game weren't nearly as sophisticated as Diablo 2's and thus translated very easily to a pad. The game had a ton of passive skills and most of the self-activated ones were either direct attacks, pets, or AoE that came directly from your characters center.

Diablo 3 has a lot of those types of skills it appears. It's worrying, I don't want them to remove complex skills that required specific targeting just to make the game easy to play on a gamepad.
 

Lombax

Banned
CurseoftheGods said:
Is there going to be support for using a gamepad in Diablo III?

I know it's all classic and hardcore and all to use a keyboard and mouse, but I'm too much of a sissy.

Any news on that front? I know a PS360 version is rumoured to come out eventually.

michael-jackson-popcorn.gif
 
thetrin said:
I don't get it. Are you TRYING to end the discussion?
Not all all. You're the one who can't seem to fathom why people would prefer something that you don't. Some people put comfort above precision and competition.
 

SoulClap

Member
lightless_shado said:
But what about the wires attached to the keyboard and mouse? you ask

well guess what?!

ttp://gallery.techarena.in/data/513/Logitech2.JPG


I have a wireless mouse and keyboard. It's still nowhere near as comfortable as using a gamepad when playing on a couch. I might look into getting a lap desk though to see if it helps.
 
Brandon F said:
Worst part of Diablo 2 'clicking'...my ranged character accidentally moves into a hoard of enemies because I was a pixel off and the ground was selected instead of the enemy. Shit never ever happens on a gamepad. Bugged the piss out of me in Torchlight, DII, and Titan Quest.

Psst, you hold down "shift" and your character doesn't move when using skills/firing arrows.

Also this only affects ranged classes with a left-click autoattack (so in D2, only the Amazon, and in Torchlight, the Vanquisher).
 

Zzoram

Member
Brandon F said:
Worst part of Diablo 2 'clicking'...my ranged character accidentally moves into a hoard of enemies because I was a pixel off and the ground was selected instead of the enemy. Shit never ever happens on a gamepad.

Gamepad would work fine, and has been proven viable in the past.

You never heard of the Shift button? It's been working since Diablo 1. Noob.
 

Raide

Member
FieryBalrog said:
I've only played Torchlight on PC so I don't know. From the description someone gave a few pages back (auto-aim, you can just mash buttons if you want) it certainly sounds like it. So Torchlight PC and Torchlight XBLA are two different games.

I have no problem if they dumb down D3 if/when the port it to consoles.

You're correct that the XBLA version is a tweaked version of the PC game, even down to some skills, the menu and UI stuff is very different. Everything that makes the PC version good, minus all the mods and crashing, is still present in the XBLA version.

In the PC version, you mash a mouse button. XBLA version you mash X. Nothing new here.
 

Boogdud

Member
thetrin said:
Why in god's name would you want to play Diablo with a gamepad?

So you can move and shoot at the same time?

Seriously though, I thought it would be horrible but I tried Torchlight on the 360 after beating it on the pc and it's actually VERY good with a controller. It really was better with a controller. I hate myself for saying that, but there it is.
 
FieryBalrog said:
I've only played Torchlight on PC so I don't know. From the description someone gave a few pages back (auto-aim, you can just mash buttons if you want) it certainly sounds like it. So Torchlight PC and Torchlight XBLA are two different games.

I have no problem if they dumb down D3 if/when the port it to consoles.

Found this: http://www.torchlightgame.com/gamenews/2011/01/06/torchlight-coming-to-xbla/

Q: What has been changed to make the game work on the 360?

A: The UI is COMPLETELY overhauled from the ground up. Nothing works the same. All new art and navigation. The concept of item ’slots’ is done away with – you just have a number of items you can hold ( 50 – ignores stack counts ). Potions and scrolls stack up to 99. Potions ‘auto pick’ the best potion to heal you or regen mana. You don’t have to think about it or map it. We iterated on the UI a ridiculous amount.

You can have 4 active mapped skills at a time, and a secondary set that you can swap between (using the dpad) for 8 mapped skills. Most of us actually find it easier to use a variety of skills on the console vs. PC, oddly enough.

Force feedback is in for quakes, strikes, low health heartbeats, and tugs on the fishing line :) Feels nice.

Q: How are controls different?

A: Control is direct – no virtual cursors ever. Combat is a little different – you move forward slightly with melee attacks and all the attack animations are redone to support this. You don’t ‘target’ enemies – you’ll get a red highlight for a ‘primary’ target that is in range, but for melee attacks you hit everything in your damage cone (secondary targets get secondary damage ). Feels natural and does what you expect.

Ranged combat is actually in many ways easier – kiting and dodging are significantly more viable with a controller and the autotargeting for ranged attacks works pretty well. ‘lobbed’ skills mapped to the triggers have a default distance, but you can finesse them for longer or shorter throws by holding the trigger at a given depth. Combat pace feels ‘faster’ and more maneuverable. If you’ve played classics like Dark Alliance or Champions of Norrath, you have the general idea ( but no jumping ). Movement speed is analog – you can move slower by easing on the stick, something you can’t do at all on PC.

Q: Has anything been removed/added for the console version?

A: No skills have been omitted. Some skills have had alterations to their functionality to make them feel better ( i.e. you don’t select corpses to summon a Nether Imp – you just cast it and if there’s a corpse around, there you go ).

Pretty much everything from the PC version is here. We didn’t remove any features, with the exception of secondary weapon sets, because there was no way we could find that didn’t feel horrible in inventory management. Socketing, enchanting, fishing, the infinite dungeon, item combination, are all represented.

We brought over some goodies from TL2 to the console version. Loading times are much reduced. Better animation blending makes combat snappier ( hard to describe, but you’ll probably feel it ). Automaps are brought over from TL2’s new automap system ( They are rendered out and much more readable, and icons cleave to the borders of the ring ). In addition, there are three new armor sets (one for each class), some new random quests for one of the miners in town, and a new pet – the Chakawary.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Zzoram said:
You never heard of the Shift button? It's been working since Diablo 1. Noob.
Nah my left hand is too busy giving the game the middle finger.
 

Negator

Member
Anteater said:
I would love gamepad support for WoW, I know I'm not the most hardcore WoW player out there as I'd often just run around doing solo quests and what not, but auto running with a gamepad and just sitting back mashing those couple skills would be nice, call me casual but I find it enjoyable! It's nice to have options especially for games that targets different types of gamers right?


As long as it prevented you from doing any instances, raid, or PVP while using a gamepad I would be all for it.
 

forrest

formerly nacire
Pretty sure I'll be playing on my Nostromo for my left hand and my wacom tablet for my right. Seriously boot up Titan's Quest and give it a go with a Wacom. It's extremely comfortable, efficient and accurate. I found it much easier to do for long periods of time as well.
 
thetrin said:
I don't get it. Are you TRYING to end the discussion?
He has a point. You wondered why anyone would pick a controller over KbM. The answer is some people prioritize comfort over precision and are able to have just as much fun as someone like yourself who prefers the opposite. I don't see the problem either way.
 

see5harp

Member
Dont' talk about Torchlight on XBLA if you haven't played it. The only thing that truly sucked was the need to switch between banks of hotkeys, which wouldn't exist assuming you are using the keyboard in tandem. Without needing to map health/mana potions to shoulder buttons this would be even less of an issue. I just don't see why this would be an issue as an option. Even spells that you have to trigger the spell using the cursor would be fine. Maybe it would suck, but it wouldn't affect those that play the game traditionally.
 
Boogdud said:
So you can move and shoot at the same time?
It's not like moving and shooting requires a magical gamepad to work. If they want that in the PC version simply enable WASD to directionally control your character. IF they want that.
 

StuBurns

Banned
lightless_shado said:
I've got good news for you "big comfy couch" guys

That 40inch flatscreen you bought for your HD console games? you can hook your PC up to that!

But what about the wires attached to the keyboard and mouse? you ask

well guess what?!

http://gallery.techarena.in/data/513/Logitech2.JPG[IMG]

Wow![/QUOTE]
Keyboard on your lap is horrible, you could put a table in front of you with the kbm, but then you have to sit forward and your comfy couch because a comfy stool, major downgrade.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Brandon F said:
Worst part of Diablo 2 'clicking'...my ranged character accidentally moves into a hoard of enemies because I was a pixel off and the ground was selected instead of the enemy. Shit never ever happens on a gamepad. Bugged the piss out of me in Torchlight, DII, and Titan Quest.

Gamepad would work fine, and has been proven viable in the past.

Uuuhhh...did you try holding Shift while shooting arrows?

NullPointer said:
Not all all. You're the one who can't seem to fathom why people would prefer something that you don't. Some people put comfort above precision and competition.

I don't get it, because it's no less comfortable to use the superior control scheme, unless you have hooks for hands.
 

Anteater

Member
Negator said:
As long as it prevented you from doing any instances, raid, or PVP while using a gamepad I would be all for it.

Well yea, I'm sure people would kick me out anyway if i suck regardless, so no problem there.
 

Stitch

Gold Member
Persona7 said:
someone doesn't like the same thing I like


TROLL!
It's a CurseoftheGods thread... maybe I'm looking at the wrong threads but in the last few weeks i got the impression that he likes to create troll threads...
 

pmj

Member
I didn't think this type of game could work on a controller until I played Torchlight on the 360. There are drawbacks to playing with a pad and they have been well covered already, but I found that I didn't mind much, and playing on a pad actually has a pretty significant advantage: kiting is a lot easier as you can walk and attack in different directions, at the same time.

Having direct control over your character makes the game feel a lot different to play, and in my opinion it feels better.
 

Anteater

Member
Stitch said:
It's a CurseoftheGods thread... maybe I'm looking at the wrong threads but in the last few weeks i got the impression that he likes to create troll threads...

This is usually the case if the OP don't respond to most of the replies. I don't think this is a troll thread though.
 

Struct09

Member
thetrin said:
This is kind of my point. I don't care what they do with the console port. Just leave the PC version alone for those of us who actually like having access to 20 hotkeys.

Even if they add gamepad support to the PC version, they're not going to remove your access to 20 hotkeys. You will still be able to control it the way you want.
 

Aeana

Member
At any rate, thanks to everyone for taking the time to articulate your thoughts on the matter. Threads like these are much more interesting when people stop talking past each other and actually try to communicate. (._. )
 

Durante

Member
Aeana said:
Would you mind explaining what about Diablo couldn't be done well on a gamepad? We have this topic come up every so often, and a bunch of people scream about it not working, but nobody ever actually takes the time to explain why they think it wouldn't work. Now we have Torchlight for XBLA showing that it can work, so I'd love to hear an explanation of why it couldn't for Diablo.
I've done this in about 3 threads concerning action RPGs, but I'll do it again. The problem are not menus or even the UI, those could be redesigned to work with gamepads (way less efficiently of course, but people are often fine with that). Hotkeys also aren't a huge issue, you can use 2 of the shoulder buttons to switch between skill sets and get up to 12 slots or so.

The problem is the very core gameplay. Basically, the feasible gamepad control schemes for games of this kind are either single stick+buttons or dual stick. Both of these offer only directional input and no positional information. With a mouse, you can set both direction and position with a single click. In Diablo 2, many skills were positional and not directional, including wall of fire, meteor, teleport and many more (sorry I mostly played sorceress, I'm sure there are many for other classes as well). None of those skills could be implemented directly on a strictly positional control scheme. For some there may be workarounds (with associated reductions in accuracy, response time and intuitivity) but not for all of them.

All the above are just statements of fact. Now let me add a personal perspective. This issue is the very reason I was always against Diablo 3 going to consoles. That would mean that the skill set for each class would have to be designed to be usable with purely directional controls, which greatly reduces the gameplay possibilities. In fact, I personally believe that Titan Quest and Sacred 1 are the best "Diablo clones" precisely because they did not have to cater to that control scheme and thus have some positional skills. I have played dozens of these games, and in my opinion much of the tedium in console-first hack and slash titles comes from having to rely purely on directional skills. Frankly, doing that greatly reduces the impact of player skill on the game.
 

mikeGFG

Banned
FieryBalrog said:
If D3 has gamepad support, it will most likely be for a hypothetical console version where the whole game is rebalanced with the gamepad in mind.

this 'hypothetical game rebalance' probably already happened.
 

Durante

Member
LiK said:
Prediction: it will have gamepad support.
I've thought so since the very first wizard skill videos were released. No positional skill in sight.

Another thing I'm disappointed about regarding Diablo 3.
 

Exuro

Member
Does D3 have positional attacks? I haven't been up to date on the game but I've heard it's gone very AOE-y.
 
Don't really care for gamepad support but having WASD for movement would be nice (would allow for more efficient kiting as well).
 

sh4mike

Member
I liked how Torchlight XBLA handled positional skills like turret placement.

Stick handles placement direction respective to the player, and button-hold length determines distance from the player.
 

Durante

Member
sh4mike said:
I liked how Torchlight XBLA handled positional skills like turret placement.

Stick handles placement direction respective to the player, and button-hold length determines distance from the player.
That's one of the workarounds to consider, but it wouldn't really fly for something as quick-paced as placing meteors or teleports in Diablo 2.

Good thing Diablo 3 isn't actually very quick-paced at all!
:(
 

Zzoram

Member
sh4mike said:
I liked how Torchlight XBLA handled positional skills like turret placement.

Stick handles placement direction respective to the player, and button-hold length determines distance from the player.

I've thought about it and I agree it works. However, it's slower to aim like that, which would effect how the spell needs to be designed.

I'm just worried that Diablo 3's pacing will be slowed down as a concession to consoles.
 

Exuro

Member
Gully State said:
Don't really care for gamepad support but having WASD for movement would be nice (would allow for more efficient kiting as well).
I would think adding something like that this late into development would destroy balance.
 
Durante said:
That's one of the workarounds to consider, but it wouldn't really fly for something as quick-paced as placing meteors or teleports in Diablo 2.

Good thing Diablo 3 isn't actually very quick-paced at all!
:(
Have you actually played the game at Blizz-con or something? The videos don't agree with you much.

Also Teleport is in for a fact, unless they changed it to work like WoW Blink or something, there is your positional skill. SC2 Blink is positional.

Oh and Leap is in. So...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04fryhWZY70
 

Aeana

Member
Durante said:
I've done this in about 3 threads concerning action RPGs, but I'll do it again. The problem are not menus or even the UI, those could be redesigned to work with gamepads (way less efficiently of course, but people are often fine with that). Hotkeys also aren't a huge issue, you can use 2 of the shoulder buttons to switch between skill sets and get up to 12 slots or so.

The problem is the very core gameplay. Basically, the feasible gamepad control schemes for games of this kind are either single stick+buttons or dual stick. Both of these offer only directional input and no positional information. With a mouse, you can set both direction and position with a single click. In Diablo 2, many skills were positional and not directional, including wall of fire, meteor, teleport and many more (sorry I mostly played sorceress, I'm sure there are many for other classes as well). None of those skills could be implemented directly on a strictly positional control scheme. For some there may be workarounds (with associated reductions in accuracy, response time and intuitivity) but not for all of them.

All the above are just statements of fact. Now let me add a personal perspective. This issue is the very reason I was always against Diablo 3 going to consoles. That would mean that the skill set for each class would have to be designed to be usable with purely directional controls, which greatly reduces the gameplay possibilities. In fact, I personally believe that Titan Quest and Sacred 1 are the best "Diablo clones" precisely because they did not have to cater to that control scheme and thus have some positional skills. I have played dozens of these games, and in my opinion much of the tedium in console-first hack and slash titles comes from having to rely purely on directional skills. Frankly, doing that greatly reduces the impact of player skill on the game.
Thank you.

Yes, I figured this would be the argument brought up most often in this thread (and it has been). It's the most difficult one to translate to a gamepad, for sure. I suggested some workarounds earlier in the thread, and of course Torchlight has its own. I was actually thinking about the analog triggers being useful for adjusting distance from the player instead of hold duration, but I'm not sure how well it would work in practice. I'm not entirely convinced that something couldn't be devised to work even better, but either way there will certainly be a trade-off in terms of speed or accuracy, as you said.
 

mavs

Member
FieryBalrog said:
Yeah, and there are some very significant skills that do that in D2, and some are confirmed to be in D3 plus others I'm sure.

Your proposed workaround doesn't seem to be one at all; the whole point of picking a spot on the ground is you do it as appropriate to the situation. They would have to rebalance the game, and that I'm sure is what they'll do if they ever port to consoles.

Actually, that's a brililant workaround. You'd just have to flick the left stick briefly to face in the right direction and if necessary flick the right stick to bring up the targeting reticle with your saved position, and make minor adjustments if any.

Wouldn't be perfect for spells like firewall or bone wall or meteor, but good enough.
 
mavs said:
Actually, that's a brililant workaround. You'd just have to flick the left stick briefly to face in the right direction and if necessary flick the right stick to bring up the targeting reticle with your saved position, and make minor adjustments if any.

I mean it works, but it is really freaking slow. Flick this, flick the other one, adjust, press a button...
 
I don't have my PC hooked up to my TV... haven't even bothered to find out how to do that since they're nowhere near each other.

But IF I did hook up my PC to my TV, why the HELL would I want to hunch over a table to use a keyboard and mouse when I could lean back and play with a controller?

If you buy the game on PC, and you have a PC connected to a TV... wow, I can't imagine playing all but the most demanding games with a most and keyboard. Do you sleep in an iron maiden too, just for comfort?
 
FieryBalrog said:
Have you actually played the game at Blizz-con or something? The videos don't agree with you much.

Also Teleport is in for a fact, unless they changed it to work like WoW Blink or something, there is your positional skill. SC2 Blink is positional.

Oh and Leap is in. So...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04fryhWZY70
I played it at Blizzcon the relative speed felt maybe a tad slower, but I also didn't have move speed gear or anything. The dodge roll thing with the demon hunter was pretty neato and required a bit of finesse.
 

Zee-Row

Banned
Diablo 1 worked fine on a PS1 controller, Torchlight works fine on a 360 controller. I don't see why Diablo 3 won't.
 

2San

Member
lightless_shado said:
Tell me, do you think that this could be managed easily with a controller?
http://www.diablowiki.net/images/thumb/a/a0/UI-march-2009.jpg/800px-UI-march-2009.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
Dragon Age:Origins inventory and skill management worked fine with controller.
 

Exuro

Member
The Antitype said:
But IF I did hook up my PC to my TV, why the HELL would I want to hunch over a table to use a keyboard and mouse when I could lean back and play with a controller?
Never understood this. Why do you have to be hunched to use kbm? I lean back all of time in my chair while playing games.
 

Durante

Member
FieryBalrog said:
Have you actually played the game at Blizz-con or something?
No, I'm just naturally negative.

FieryBalrog said:
Hmm, I've looked over that a few times now and it does seem positional. First I thought it's just towards the first enemy in the line of sight direction, but at one point he seems to jump exactly into the center of a group of enemies.

If it's really positional: Great! Now add a ton more positional spells to wizards please Blizzard.


Aeana said:
I was actually thinking about the analog triggers being useful for adjusting distance from the player instead of hold duration, but I'm not sure how well it would work in practice.
Heh, hold duration and analog pressure were two of the possibilities I thought about (the third one is having a set distance that you can adjust using the right analog stick). All of them are somewhat workable, none of them are as exact, quick or intuitive as clicking a point.
 
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