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James Scott · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
It's still worse. When you are looking at a tv screen to press touchscreen buttons on a controller is not a good idea. There is literally nothing wrong with the old fashion buttons. Nowadays there are button prompts on the TV screen if you forgot what each button does. The only benefit for this is for seriously dumb people who have no idea where a button is or where b button is. I'm sure most gaffers here no where these buttons are and can get used to bottom configuration in a game within minutes. The only benefit this is to the super dumb casuals however they are not worth chasing for the cost of hardcore market as they will still end up playing their free games on iPhone. This will just drive the cost of the console up as well as alienate the hardcore market after they realise the initial cool factor is not enough to stick with it.

We don't know how they'll handle traditional controls but they probably have those in mind. We just don't know enough to say if the tech is good or bad, but there are definitely benefits to it.
It's more than just a full touchscreen with the analog sticks likely doubling as some sort of button

Mariolee · Mar 24, 2016

aza said:
Figured this would be a good exercise. Made a quick UI animation concept:

Contextual actions/buttons

Click down on left analog stick for weapon wheel

Hear it with sound for that extra OOMPH.

The sound sells everything. Good stuff man. I already thought it was cool, but this just seals the deal.

see5harp · Mar 24, 2016

bomblord1 said:
How are you supposed to jump in Halo if you are turning?

Is this a real question?

Rizific · Mar 24, 2016

Jonboy said:
As for this in practice though...it would be absolutely terrible. For those actually entertaining the idea, try playing one of the iOS or Android games that have been doing this for years now. It feels terrible.

ya damn right. for the love of everything, keep the bullshit mobile games touchscreen controls away from consoles. im a person who will keep buying nintendo consoles for the nintendo games. but this kind of shit (if real) makes me shake my head. include it with the console, fine. just dont make it mandatory for anything and have a traditional controller also available. please.

Green Mamba · Mar 24, 2016

At the very least relying on shitty touch screen buttons would likely force 3D Mario to drop it's run button, lol.

Joelstinton14 · Mar 24, 2016

TunaLover said:
What if the zone where your palm rest is not actually lost? And the screen is actually sending haptic feedback?

Sorry i don't quite understand what you are trying to say? Feedback as a whole through the controller or just button presses?

bomblord1 · Mar 24, 2016

see5harp said:
Is this a real question?

The idea is that all control schemes with 2 sticks you have both fingers on the sticks even though there are face buttons that do things. People have no issues popping their fingers onto the appropriate button at the appropriate time and bringing them back.

If you had issues using items while using the sticks then that issue would apply to every dual analog setup ever created.

KingV · Mar 24, 2016

see5harp said:
I mean those screens do have stuff like palm rejection for tablets and capacitive screens support like 10 fingers...hell even the first iPad had that type of support. I don't care what type of vibration they have built into that tiny device...moving your finger down onto a smooth piece of glass is never going to be as good as simply moving down to a d-pad. If it's going to be another generation of extra controllers and accessories just to play traditional games, count me out.

I didn't know about palm rejection.

I guess I can stop ensuring my hands are aloft above my iPad when typin...

Always-honest · Mar 24, 2016

So how much would such a controller cost?
And how much would a similar to PS4 powered console cost these days?

webrunner · Mar 24, 2016

there's something that a lot of people don't realize is that if you don't "box" off ui elements, you may end up with more visible space, but with the feeling of less because UI (or in this case, physical button) elements are "intruding" on the view window.

This is why a lot of RTS and MOBA games tend to have a completely seperate "panel" for the controls, instead of having them floating.

Plus you end up with a situation that there could be something "on screen" you can't interact with since it's under the UI.

It's sort of counter-intuitive but it would be a problem.

Sadist · Mar 24, 2016

You know observing this thread made me realize that Nintendo has been rustling our jimmies for ten years regarding hardware reveals.

Never change.

TunaLover · Mar 24, 2016

Joelstinton14 said:
Sorry i don't quite understand what you are trying to say? Feedback as a whole through the controller or just button presses?

For example your palm will sense when you are aproaching to a lava, or ice.

RagnarokX · Mar 24, 2016

aza said:
Figured this would be a good exercise. Made a quick UI animation concept:

Contextual actions/buttons

Click down on left analog stick for weapon wheel

Hear it with sound for that extra OOMPH.

This looks cool and maybe the virtual buttons will have haptic feedback and feel real, but...

I don't see why they wouldn't put physical buttons on the face. They could put the standard ABXY next to the right stick and still make them contextual by putting displays around the buttons. Hell, it's probably even possible to make the buttons still display the screen through them.

Enduin · Mar 24, 2016

FTF said:
This, with physical buttons, and I'm in.

Phii said:
Probably been discussed. Adding some/few real buttons on the display as well as giving each of these buttons pixels enough to fit the frame of the display would be cool.

If it actually looked like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udkU101fFOk

I'd totally be down that even if I'm still not sold on a full screen appearance. But the shape and lack of real buttons, even if they use some kind of haptic feedback or the even less likely tactus style buttons, really kills this apparent controller for me.

Demoncarnotaur · Mar 24, 2016

Give this thing four physical face buttons and I'll be more inclined.

n0razi · Mar 24, 2016

This is all I see

Nanashrew · Mar 24, 2016

javac said:
Not too long ago a poster on this very forum alluded to the fact that the resolution for the upcoming handheld to be "higher than you'd expect, lower than you'd hope", if that device is the one we see in these pictures, I wonder where it stands. Maybe it's lower than we'd hope due to the abnormal shape? A majority of posters concluded that 540p would be most likely.

Info on Sharp's Free form display:

I remember that. That was Matt, and it was about Nintendo's next handheld. Handheld will be native 540p in all likely cases because it scales up better to 1080p.

KAL2006 · Mar 24, 2016

People actually thinking this is a good idea. How and why. Did you some how forget A button is jump, did you somehow forget B Button is attack etc. Basically the system will cost more for people who don't know how to use buttons, this does not benefit us at all. UI, Maps etc taken away from the onscreen screen to have at more expensive system is not worth it as Wii U has shown. I'm fact sometimes I prefer having it all on the TV such as a map as I don't want to look down on the controller.

James Scott · Mar 24, 2016

RagnarokX said:
This looks cool and maybe the virtual buttons will have haptic feedback and feel real, but...

I don't see why they wouldn't put physical buttons on the face. They could put the standard ABXY next to the right stick and still make them contextual by putting displays around the buttons. Hell, it's probably even possible to make the buttons still display the screen through them.

I think they could benefit from adding a B button near the stick. If the sticks can be used as good buttons a b button should please most people with X/Y being optional if devs want it (Mario games don't use them, leaves more viewable space)

KAL2006 · Mar 24, 2016

Also people showing mock ups with Gameplay on the screen remember this isn't the handheld this is the console.

Skux · Mar 24, 2016

Someone watermarked a picture of a rear view mirror? lol

PdotMichael · Mar 24, 2016

Why should the fact looking away from your big screen to a small sceen on your gamepad sells the NX to the masses?

javac · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
Did you some how forget A button is jump, did you somehow forget B Button is attack etc.

This isn't a fact of life.

Anarky · Mar 24, 2016

I'm on Team Nintendocannotpossiblybethisstupid.

Mariolee · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
People actually thinking this is a good idea. How and why. Did you some how forget A button is jump, did you somehow forget B Button is attack etc. Basically the system will cost more for people who don't know how to use buttons, this does not benefit us at all. UI, Maps etc taken away from the onscreen screen to have at more expensive system is not worth it as Wii U has shown. I'm fact sometimes I prefer having it all on the TV such as a map as I don't want to look down on the controller.

Nintendo is looking at Mobile Phones and asking essentially "Why can't we do that?" and so now they're doing it. Phones are doing just fine without buttons anyway. Of course there aren't many open world adventure games on them, but that doesn't mean it can't still work.

RagnarokX · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
People actually thinking this is a good idea. How and why. Did you some how forget A button is jump, did you somehow forget B Button is attack etc. Basically the system will cost more for people who don't know how to use buttons, this does not benefit us at all. UI, Maps etc taken away from the onscreen screen to have at more expensive system is not worth it as Wii U has shown. I'm fact sometimes I prefer having it all on the TV such as a map as I don't want to look down on the controller.

I don't think the people saying contextual buttons are cool are talking about them displaying visuals. What makes contextual buttons interesting is the fact that you could put them anywhere you want. This means the controller has infinite button layout possibilities. You want the layout to look like a standard controller, you can do that. You want to put the buttons in a fighting game pad layout? You can do that. You want to put the buttons at random points on the face of the controller with no rhyme or reason? You can do that.

Green Mamba · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
Also people showing mock ups with Gameplay on the screen remember this isn't the handheld this is the console.

Yeah, seriously. We're not going to be looking at the controller while gameplay is happening on the TV, so you're not going to be able to see these fancy context sensitive buttons and you're not going to be able to feel them prior to pressing them either.

DownGrader · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
Also people showing mock ups with Gameplay on the screen remember this isn't the handheld this is the console.

That's why I think we should try shopping some UIs instead of gameplay footage.

(shamelessly plugging my mock-up for a new page)

ekim · Mar 24, 2016

Green Mamba said:
Yeah, seriously. We're not going to be looking at the controller while gameplay is happening on the TV, so you're not going to be able to see these fancy context sensitive buttons and you're not going to be able to feel them prior to pressing them either.

That's a new meta game. Maybe you hit the correct button. Increases difficulty.

see5harp · Mar 24, 2016

bomblord1 said:
The idea is that all control schemes with 2 sticks you have both fingers on the sticks even though there are face buttons that do things. People have no issues popping there fingers onto the appropriate button at the appropriate time and bringing them back.

If you had issues using items while using the sticks then that issue would apply to every dual analog setup ever created.

In the case of Halo, there is an alternate control scheme if that's your specific concern. I agree though. People have no issues going back to physical buttons when looking at their screens. There are four of them on this controller.

KingV said:
I didn't know about palm rejection.

I guess I can stop ensuring my hands are aloft above my iPad when typin...

Yea not palm rejection with iPad, but with stuff like surface when using specific apps with the stylus. I'm sure apps on iPad pro also do some stuff when using the pencil. I was more talking about the multitouch.

Graphics Horse · Mar 24, 2016

Nanashrew said:
I remember that. That was Matt, and it was about Nintendo's next handheld. Handheld will be native 540p in all likely cases because it scales up better to 1080p.

the scaling is super debateable. I don't think it matters for anything other than HUD elements, and a handheld mode is going to require a different HUD design anyways. Many games have moved on from pixel art huds long ago too, and already designed to scale to different resolutions.

nevertheless 1280x480 or 1440x540 are good bets for screen dimension extents.

GamerJM · Mar 24, 2016

butman said:
This. I posted a pic days ago how it would be used in a actual NX game and possible VC:

The problem with this is that the displays would be really small when you bring everything to scale. Like, especially that last one, that's a really small space.

I'm of the mind that if this is real it's probably going to be used for UI stuff, with the TV being the main display for the games. I think off-TV play is dead. The Zelda vine looks sleak and snappy but not too practical. The main point of the touch screen is that it gives developers complete freedom over how their inputs work (how many buttons to have, what button layout, etc.)

Green Mamba · Mar 24, 2016

ekim said:
That's a new meta game. Maybe you hit the correct button. Increases difficulty.

Could you imagine playing a game that required hitting two buttons at once? lol

Florist · Mar 24, 2016

dose said:
What's the point of having the whole front as a screen when you're only going to be using the centre?

If given the chance to play Zelda on either of those configurations, I'd choose option two 10 times out of 10

PdotMichael · Mar 24, 2016

Green Mamba said:
Could you imagine playing a game that required hitting two buttons at once? lol

Getting that inferior mobile games feeling on your console now!

Green Mamba · Mar 24, 2016

PdotMichael said:
Getting that inferior mobile games feeling on your console now!

Seriously, I'm playing Twilight Princess HD right now, 23 hours into the game, and I still have to look to the gamepad's screen to press the Wolf transformation touchscreen button.

Touchscreen buttons are bad enough on handhelds and phones. Doubly horrible for console games, especially if they're going to be used for active gameplay purposes!

cryptosporidium · Mar 24, 2016

I am personally fine with including this new screen/haptic thing but not in lieu of actual buttons such as a dpad, shoulder buttons (im fine with scrollables but again not in lieu of what controllers have evolved to be), and normal A,B,Y,X. A combination akin to maybe the PS4 controller would work better for me where there is the option for developers to use an extra outlet for creativity (where MGS GZ used it for maps etc). as it stands I do not like this design and if a company whether its any of the big 3 wish to show off their new controller designs, put it in consumer hands first and recieve some feedback. a continuos development with the consumers may develop a better relationship though there wont be the 'unvieling' factor

KAL2006 · Mar 24, 2016

Mariolee said:
Nintendo is looking at Mobile Phones and asking essentially "Why can't we do that?" and so now they're doing it. Phones are doing just fine without buttons anyway. Of course there aren't many open world adventure games on them, but that doesn't mean it can't still work.

No one is arguing it can't be done with touchscreen what we are arguing is the fact it's inferior than buttons and adds to the cost of the console. And Nintendo will never get the mobile gamers. A mum is not going to decide to pay for this expensive system rather than just give their old iPad or iPod touch to their kids. And those kids grow and end up playing COD eventually.

RagnarokX said:
I don't think the people saying contextual buttons are cool are talking about them displaying visuals. What makes contextual buttons interesting is the fact that you could put them anywhere you want. This means the controller has infinite button layout possibilities. You want the layout to look like a standard controller, you can do that. You want to put the buttons in a fighting game pad layout? You can do that. You want to put the buttons at random points on the face of the controller with no rhyme or reason? You can do that.

Infinite button layouts? The PS4 and Xbox One controller have enough buttons to play the majority of genres. Placing diffeent touch buttons in different parts of the screen won't attract many new Gameplay possibilities in fact it ruins more genres of games.

Joelstinton14 · Mar 24, 2016

javac said:
This isn't a fact of life.

Hate to say it, i sometimes still have to look down at the controller. For some reason i sometimes get confused with the R1 and L1 buttons. Not sure why, just from time to time it happens.

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 24, 2016

KAL2006 said:
Also people showing mock ups with Gameplay on the screen remember this isn't the handheld this is the console.

Having a second screen too often detracts from the actual game play experience. I think Nintendo has learned this already... or at least I hope.

I think if the controller has a screen, it should be the primary view. Especially since there are no buttons so, haptic or not, you will often find yourself looking down to 'find' your fingers and button placement on the screen.

MilkyJoe · Mar 24, 2016

Fredrik said:
Crap compared to what? Compared to what we're used to we just get a much bigger screen than usual here.

Lets see if this works, scruffy sketches

This

compared to this

Yet it looks like someone handling a toy made for a toddler.

jblank83 · Mar 24, 2016

RagnarokX said:
This looks cool and maybe the virtual buttons will have haptic feedback and feel real, but...

I don't see why they wouldn't put physical buttons on the face. They could put the standard ABXY next to the right stick and still make them contextual by putting displays around the buttons. Hell, it's probably even possible to make the buttons still display the screen through them.

You can't beat physical controls. There's a reason for that. They're tactile. You feel responses from them. You can tell where they are without looking. Feedback is instantaneous, precise, and infinitely fine on a gradient scale.

That's something you can't beat with virtual touchscreen controls. Touchscreens are great for drawing and for mimicking one big button (ex: nearly all smartphone games), but not for a multitude of complex controls requiring quickness and precision.

MilkyJoe said:
Yet it looks like someone handling a toy made for a toddler.

Disagree. I think this (real or fake) is some slick looking tech:

EatinOlives · Mar 24, 2016

Mariolee said:
Nintendo is looking at Mobile Phones and asking essentially "Why can't we do that?" and so now they're doing it. Phones are doing just fine without buttons anyway. Of course there aren't many open world adventure games on them, but that doesn't mean it can't still work.

Phones aren't successful gaming platforms because they lack buttons. They're successful because every user always carries theirs in their pocket, are powerful computing devices, and generally realize every goal of handheld gaming devices as they are conceived (e.g., always having it with you for those 5-10 minutes of downtime). Nintendo wouldn't be imitating smartphones by removing buttons and making the controller a glossy screen flat touch device. That'd be taking incredibly superficial properties of a smartphone and assuming those properties MUST be the reason that they're successful, which isn't logical in any way.

If this is real (and I very much doubt it is), they're not doing this to imitate phones. If they are they should probably expect another Wii-U-level failure.

udivision · Mar 24, 2016

So... the controller will have a higher aspect ratio than the screen you'll most likely be using? Would the optimal experience be off-TV play or the TV?

And the console will have to render both the controller an the TV screens again... so even with additional power there will be graphical drawbacks?

MilkyJoe · Mar 24, 2016

The Abominable Snowman said:
Having a second screen too often detracts from the actual game play experience. I think Nintendo has learned this already... or at least I hope.

I think if the controller has a screen, it should be the primary view. Especially since there are no buttons so, haptic or not, you will often find yourself looking down to 'find' your fingers and button placement on the screen.

So what's the point in having a console connected to the TV... Jeepers...

Speedwagon · Mar 24, 2016

n0razi said:
This is all I see

Perfect for Mario Kart.

TedHub · Mar 24, 2016

MilkyJoe said:
Yet it looks like someone handling a toy made for a toddler.

Wow what the hell. What do you think of Nintendo's other controllers?

DocSeuss · Mar 24, 2016

jres80 said:
You can't beat physical controls. There's a reason for that. They're tactile. You feel responses from them. You can tell where they are without looking. Feedback is instantaneous, precise, and infinitely fine on a gradient scale.

That's something you can't beat with virtual touchscreen controls. Touchscreens are great for drawing and for mimicking one big button (ex: nearly all smartphone games), but not for a multitude of complex controls requiring quickness and precision.

Disagree. I think this (real or fake) is some slick looking tech:

Yuuuup, this is a really bad idea, and there's really no way anyone can justify it as a good one. There's a reason the 16 button controller is a standard. For me, the bigger issue is a lack of ergonomics--if this really was the NX controller, I wouldn't buy an NX because my crippled hands couldn't physically hold it without significant pain.

MilkyJoe · Mar 24, 2016

jres80 said:
Disagree. I think this (real or fake) is some slick looking tech:

Slick or not, it is tiny.

Nanashrew · Mar 24, 2016

EatinOlives said:
Phones aren't successful gaming platforms because they lack buttons. They're successful because every user always carries theirs in their pocket, are powerful computing devices, and generally realize every goal of handheld gaming devices as they are conceived (e.g., always having it with you for those 5-10 minutes of downtime). Nintendo wouldn't be imitating smartphones by removing buttons and making the controller a glossy screen flat touch device. That'd be taking incredibly superficial properties of a smartphone and assuming those properties MUST be the reason that they're successful, which isn't logical in any way.

If this is real (and I very much doubt it is), they're not doing this to imitate phones. If they are they should probably expect another Wii-U-level failure.

To be honest, I also do expect a screen on their next system because they have no choice now with the Wii U but to iterate on that and to keep legacy support down the line for Wii U VC. And with a mid-gen upgrade model, that could likely come sooner than later.

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