And to make matters worse, even if you do get sucked into this adventure, there isn't much content on offer. You can play through the seven missions in a few hours, and once you're done with that, there are a handful of time-trial missions but little else to occupy your time.
In short, Steel Diver is an extremely underwhelming launch game. The eight missions can be knocked out in about 2 to 3 hours and the two player Steel Commander mode is buggy in addition to boring when playing against the AI. It doesn't make any sense to me why Nintendo would sell this at a $39.99 MSRP.
it feels too brief and underdeveloped. The core "side-scrolling submarine action game with a bit of realistic physics" campaign is either way too short or frustratingly padded. All the other features are amusing distractions, but nothing more than that.
I finished the game this afternoon! Awesome stuff. Final mission was pretty fucking epic! Game had a nice credits track as well. I have 6/15 ghost medals, tons of decals left to unlock and activate, the majority of the time trials left, and the entire strategy mode to do. I have logged 12 hours so far according to my play history on my 3DS. A couple hours of content my ass.
There were two composers in the credits. I didn't get a chance to write them down so I'll have to beat the game again to see them lol! Both did not look familiar to me though.
That said, the concept works wonderfully and it does lead to some really stellar and surprising moments, like the first time you come across the proximity mines, the mission six surprises
(having to avoid the whales and avoiding and THEN shooting the ice bergs to progress)
and all of the final mission (that boss fight, holy shit). If they get the chance to make a sequel to this, I have a feeling that we'd be looking a Pikmin->Pikmin 2 leap in content and that's worth getting really excited for.
Just controlling this game is a lot of fun. In that regard, it's everything I wanted. The levels are creative as are the obstacles. Although I do think there could've been more missions (as that's the meat of the game), there is a healthy amount of content for a handheld game. The time trials being different levels is a big plus. Happy with my purchase so far
I'm really liking it so far. Definitely doesn't feel like a launch title, or a first-party title, or even Nintendo's typical second-party title. More like a quietly personable late-in-generation third-party sleeper.
OMG! I just beat all 7 stages with all three subs and I unlocked motherfucking EXPERT MODE. It's all 7 stages with harder conditions, new enemy placements, etc. SO COOL! Holy shit, do these fucking reviewers/critics even play their games!? Seriously, no content my ass.
This is so awesome, that's why the requirements to activate all the Decals are high because there is a second set of stages. All of your Decals carry over and you can change difficult on the campaign select at anytime.
If you had ANY doubt to get into this game, BUY IT NOW. SUPPORT STEEL DIVER so we can get an even greater sequel! =)
I've also been playing Steel Diver alot today and it's a really good little game.
The gameplay mechanics are really really tight, I love pulling off evasive maneuvers by controlling the multiple levers and switches on the touch screen. It feels pretty awesome!
There is a decent amount of gameplay in here, took me 5 hours to unlock expert mode and I still have all the time trials and dev ghosts to beat. I'm sure you get expert version of the time trials as well.
I think it's worth a purchase if you're looking for something different and are a completionist who likes to replay levels and unlock everything. People who want a campaign 8-10 hour setpiece cutscene fest should avoid this at all cost though.
This game has been a lot of fun so far. Finally got a chance to play some of it this evening. Relaxing yet not at the same time due to the time limit you have you complete missions in. More then enough time for you to think about what you are going to do. Just looking at the different options, the times it should take you to complete missions the first time around with how the subs handle, the medals from racing ghost images, the time trial stages, etc I question if those that gave scores to this game even bothered to play the damn game. I don't think they did at all.
What Yuterald has been preaching in this thread is right on point. Reviewers now-a-days are idiots. I'm 6 hours in, still trying to unlock level seven in the campaign mode, while gaining a bronze medal on all time travel levels and trying to finish each with all three subs. I've only touched the periscope mode once but that seems more like a "hey shoThw this to your friend!" type thing, but using it to find decals in the campaign is really fun. Haven't even scratched the strategy game mode yet but it has ten maps I believe (though I have admit this mode doesn't seem to be my thing, relies too much on luck IMO and too much waiting around).
Anyways, Steel Diver is extremely addictive, some of the most pure fun I have had with a handheld title since Canvas Curse. PilotWings Resort is underrated but what people are doing to this game is a travesty. Steel Diver is the best launch title by quite a margin (IMO).
Oh and hrom my findings and reading reports of people who HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED THE GAME, Steel Diver has around 15-20 hours of content, if not more.
Steel Diver is a game that lives and dies by its control. Steel Diver's main gameplay is controlled exclusively through touch screen. You use depth and speed sliders to control the submarines, while the two larger subs have a steering wheel to help steer in specfic directions. It can be a bit complicated and overwhelming at first, but once youget the hang of it, you'll find that Steel Diver controls like almost nothing else before it, and it makes for a very refreshing feeling.
Iwata:
Would you say that the feature you want people to enjoy the most is the simulation aspect of it the part where it feels as if you're actually piloting a large submarine?
Miyamoto:
Yes, I'd say so. The players would use complicated panels to control something large and heavy. For people who like to set their own goals, I believe they'll find a lot of things to do.
Iwata:
Compared to an action game that are very responsive, this simulator can feel somewhat difficult. But once they overcome that, it can end up being really fun.
Miyamoto:
I agree. But even though we're saying it's difficult, it's not as hard as a flight-simulation game. Then again, that may only be because planes are much faster. (laughs) So, in other words, controlling a submarine is like a slower version of a flight-simulation game. In terms of functionality, it's the same as with Mario swimming in water.
- Five Missions intially
- Must beat all missions with all three subs to unlock two more missions
- Unlock Expert Mode by beating all seven missions with all three subs
- Expert mode has a tougher difficulty, new enemies, and other surprises.
- Compete against Dev Ghosts for each mission to gain medals. Expert Mode unlocks new ghosts
- Collect Decals in bonus Periscope Mode that can be use to make subs stronger/faster/etc. and even change subs into creatures! For decal list click here.
- High Score listings for each mission
Time Trail
- Eight DIFFERENT time-mission levels.
- Bronze, Silver, and Gold Dev Ghost Medals to gain.
- Must complete with all three submarines.
Periscope Strike
- Make use of the motion controls of the 3DS with this innovative game mode that replicates actually looking through a periscope in a submarine.
- Mode is more of a novelity to show to friends.
- Has three missions with high-scores.
Steel Commander
- Advance Wars/Battlefield strategy game
- Ten maps
- Play against the computer or a friend through download play
Course 1
1. Yuterald: 1:06:37-Golden Falcon-2nd Sub
2.
3.
Course 2
1. Yuterald: 59:79-Sea Serpent-2nd sub
2.
3.
Course 3
1. Yuterald: 51:15 Golden Falcon-2nd sub
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3.
Course 4
1. Yuterald: 1:00:13 Golden Falcon-2nd sub
2.
3.
Course 5
1. Yuterald: 54: 61-Golden Falcon-2nd sub
2.
3.
Course 6
1. Yuterald: 41:17-Golden Falcon-2nd sub
2.
3.
Course 7
1. Yuterald: 53:62 Golden Falcon-2nd sub
2.
3.
Course 8
1. Yuterald: 1:00:18-Golden Falcon-2nd sub
2.
3.
Periscope Strike
Enemy Ships
1.
2.
3.
Enemy Ships in a Storm
1.
2.
3
Enemy Submarines
1.
2.
3.
Post your high-scores and I'll add them to the list. I'm going by an honor system right now, I figure no one would really have a reason to lie. But if popular opinion arises that a score most be companied with a screen grab, I will change the rules.
I gotta admit, I wasn't expecting too much out of this (especially after reading a few of the reviews from Gamespot, etc.) but this game is frigging fantastic so far. Four hours in and I'm still only on Mission 5, and I haven't even touched the Time Trials yet. Anybody who says this game only lasts a couple of hours is lying to you.
I'm not even done with the game yet and I'm already eagerly waiting for a sequel!
Would my screen hold up okay playing this without a screen protector? My DS Phat's screen got destroyed from scratches so I'm trying not to repeat that lol.
I was going to say: This thread is so tiny! What a shame! But then I realized it was only posted a little while ago. So instead I shall wish it a long and successful OT. It's a new idea from Nintendo, after all.
Very happy this got an official topic. I don't read reviews for mist games as they are usually misleading to my tastes.
I do however like to read multiple impressions and then gauge my interest, so far this game is next on my radar, the opinions seem thorough and thoughtful from the members here.
Would my screen hold up okay playing this without a screen protector? My DS Phat's screen got destroyed from scratches so I'm trying not to repeat that lol.
I don't have a screen protector on and I've logged in over seven hours on Steel Diver and yet no scratches on my touch screen. I guess it could potentially have that effect though considering all the sliding and readujsting you do.
Anybody want to post their best Time Trails? I saved the second post for it in case you haven't noticed. Sadly they're no online leaderboards, which this game would greatly benefit from, but if we have a lot of participation on GAF by people posting their best times it could be fun to try and be the best Steel Driver GAFFER.
I'll be posting my best times later tonight as a starting point.
Been grinding the past few days away on it and I must say, this is a really fun piece of work right here. It's such an odd title, and while it does seem "bare bones" as far as features are concerned, the core design is of great value to players such as myself. Going to jump back in once things slow down at work...
People really should give this game a try and not let "professional reviews" stop you. There is a lot to this game that doesn't seem in your face at first glance. I still hold to what I said in the other topic. I don't think many that "reviewed" the game even bothered to play it. There are a number of things on the surface simply ignored in their write ups and that's just to start.
It still sounds a bit light on content, but not in a way that's never happened in retail full price games or anything. Par for the course, even. It seems neat anyway.
It still sounds a bit light on content, but not in a way that's never happened in retail full price games or anything. Par for the course, even. It seems neat anyway.
It's about on the content levels of say Punchout!! (Wii) and Excite Truck. Which ironically both had unlockable modes with new content that a lot of reviewers "looked" over.
90% of reviewers just play the game for six hours and write the review from there.
There has been much controversy in message boards when people see a reviewer's game profile or some shit and see that they didn't even complete the game. This happened with Gamespot's Lost Odyessy review where duder gave the game a 7.5 and gave it some harsh comments like it never "goes anywhere" yet it was discovered that dude never got passed the first fucking disc.
Is there an option to customize the layout of the touchscreen controls for each sub? The location of that elevation slider worries me. Any thoughts from lefties who own the game?
I don't know about anyone else, but i am enjoying the hell out of steel commander. Is it perfect? Not even close but it is still fun and can be frustrating but it makes me come back to kick the AI's ass.
This is the game my brother-in-law purchased. I'm glad I didn't buy it. It is in every sense an mediocre tech demo with garbage controls and very uneven design. He DID unlock all the missions in 2 hours and even had a substantial amount of the extras unlocked and even fairly good scores. I don't think he did the strategy modes yet.
The problem people are having with defining a game's length is in the content vs. the amount of time it takes to perfect said content.
Steel Diver has a very small amount of content. However, if you mean to get every last little decal or get perfect scores in everything requires replaying the same very small amount of content over and over and over again.
This is called arbitrarily extending playtime. If you find the gameplay good enough that you don't mind playing the same tiny amount of content over and over and over, you'll be aggressively attacking reviewers for dismissing the game. If you do have a problem with it, you'll be like the majority of people who feel the game was very undercooked and not worth $40.
I am glad I don't live in a world where people have to make excuses for such small amounts of content simply because we're in a launch window and people feel like they have to justify the awful games they buy.
90% of reviewers just play the game for six hours and write the review from there.
There has been much controversy in message boards when people see a reviewer's game profile or some shit and see that they didn't even complete the game. This happened with Gamespot's Lost Odyessy review where duder gave the game a 7.5 and gave it some harsh comments like it never "goes anywhere" yet it was discovered that dude never got passed the first fucking disc.
Not that I disagree with too many of your points Amir0x (especially the uneven design of the levels, where it doesn't really being to show off what each sub can do until waaaaaaaay too late), but I'm curious to know what you found to be offensive about the controls. I'm sure your mind is made up already, and I certainly don't want to be overly combative about it, but I'd like to see what you're specifically griping about and what you'd do differently.
This is the game my brother-in-law purchased. I'm glad I didn't buy it. It is in every sense an mediocre tech demo with garbage controls and very uneven design. He DID unlock all the missions in 2 hours and even had a substantial amount of the extras unlocked and even fairly good scores. I don't think he did the strategy modes yet.
The problem people are having with defining a game's length is in the content vs. the amount of time it takes to perfect said content.
Steel Diver has a very small amount of content. However, if you mean to get every last little decal or get perfect scores in everything requires replaying the same very small amount of content over and over and over again.
This is called arbitrarily extending playtime. If you find the gameplay good enough that you don't mind playing the same tiny amount of content over and over and over, you'll be aggressively attacking reviewers for dismissing the game. If you do have a problem with it, you'll be like the majority of people who feel the game was very undercooked and not worth $40.
I am glad I don't live in a world where people have to make excuses for such small amounts of content simply because we're in a launch window and people feel like they have to justify the awful games they buy.
It's got nothing to do with perfecting said content. It just so happens that beating content in certain ways unlocks NEW content. If you find the gameplay poor or that type of method for accessing new content not your cup of tea then that's all find and dandy! But don't report that said game is only two-three hours long when it's clearly not because people are still unlocking NEW SUBSTANTIAL content at the ten hour mark.
I haven't even unlocked expert mode yet and I'm been playing for seven hours. I doubt your friend unlocked ALL the missions in two hours unless he is a fricken wizard at this game.
Brinny said:
Is there an option to customize the layout of the touchscreen controls for each sub? The location of that elevation slider worries me. Any thoughts from lefties who own the game?
I don't think there is a opition to, but I haven't checked. I'm a lefty though, and the control schemes works perfectly for me. Feels extremely natural once you master it, but I admit it does take a bit of practice to do so. That's the point though.
It's got nothing to do with perfecting said content. It just so happens that beating content in certain ways unlocks NEW content. If you find the gameplay poor or that type of method for accessing new content not your cup of tea then that's all find and dandy! But don't report that said game is only two-three hours long when it's clearly not because people are still unlocking NEW SUBSTANTIAL content at the ten hour mark.
I haven't even unlocked expert mode yet and I'm been playing for seven hours. I doubt your friend unlocked ALL the missions in two hours unless he is a fricken wizard at this game.
The game's main mode has seven missions, full stop. The strategy mode has ten missions, and beating a single mission is extremely quick if you tried it out at all. I have. You unlock a hard mode that changes enemy placements and certain conditions within the same similar seven missions.
You're making a poor argument against what i said. The game juggles its ultra low amount of content in a way that makes you - and others - feel like they're getting their money worth. But objectively, the game has poor amount of pure content. They arbitrarily extended the game time in the cheapest, most time saving way possible: they simply used the same assets and slightly changed the way things were so you felt you were getting more challenge. They needed to get it to launch and so this is the compromise they made to do it.
There is no way you can make a serious argument that the game has a lot of content, or that the reviewers are purely wrong in saying it's a three hour game. My brother-in-law beat the game in a similar time frame. He did not get every decal and he didn't beat the hard mode, but that's because he found the gameplay flawed enough that it wasn't worth replaying the same content in slightly different ways to get all the medals and high scores.
You shouldn't "trust" NeoGAF posters then. Flying_Phoenix's recollection of the facts are incorrect; the only abnormal thing about Gamespot's review of Lost Odyssey is that they reported much longer loading times than what the retail game actually had. Of course, that's because the review build had very long loading times. They bought a retail version of the game and amended their review accordingly.
A review is not something you're supposed to take as fact. It's an opinion of a game, that when well written can be an interesting read to people who appreciate games. In this case, people who think Steel Diver doesn't have enough content for a $40 game are free to have that opinion.
I spent over 50 hours in Mirror's Edge and it was my GOTY. A lot of reviews and other people wrote it off as a 5 hour game. Not everyone gets the same out of games, it's no different with Steel Diver.
They arbitrarily extended the game time in the cheapest, most time saving way possible: they simply used the same assets and slightly changed the way things were so you felt you were getting more challenge. They needed to get it to launch and so this is the compromise they made to do it.
I don't think time trial medals are arbitrary, especially when a game is designed around it. So with this logic, going for an 'A' Rank run in the original Resident Evil is not 'pure' content? You are changing the way you play the game to derive more value out of the base content and that is also a game that can be completed in less than 2 hours. Isn't that the whole point of a game with replay value? Having goals to strive for after you beat the game? WTF kind of bullshit comment is this!?
You shouldn't "trust" NeoGAF posters then. Flying_Phoenix's recollection of the facts are incorrect; the only abnormal thing about Gamespot's review of Lost Odyssey is that they reported much longer loading times than what the retail game actually had. Of course, that's because the review build had very long loading times. They bought a retail version of the game and amended their review accordingly.
A review is not something your supposed to take as fact. It's an opinion of a game, that when well written can be interesting to people who appreciate games. In this case, people who think Steel Diver doesn't have enough content for a $40 game are free to have that opinion.
I spent over 50 hours in Mirror's Edge and it was my GOTY. A lot of reviews and regular people wrote it off as a 5 hour game. Not everyone gets the same out of games, it's no different with Steel Diver.
I only really "listen" to a few posters on here, and when I say listen, I mean concerning facts and whatnot. When it comes to ANY game, I'll judge it for myself. Period. I don't need anyone telling me if I'll like a game or not based mostly on a review of their own tastes and comforts. I play it, and if I like it, I keep playing until it isn't fun anymore.
The same way you liked Mirror's Edge, I thought it was a great idea clouded in a sloppy mess. This is why I don't go by reviews, only facts of the title. Most of which I try and gather from a good quality video if available.
Well the hard mode makes them like another 7 missions according to this guy at least, since enemy placements and stuff are switched around. Sure, it's not as good as if the layouts were different also but with this gameplay it seems these changes make them new enough.
Maybe it's like beating high rank monsters in Monster Hunter. They're the same monsters, and you've already seen the areas they're in before, but they offer different challenges with doing more damage and bring more aggressive, and larger, and using more lethal moves more often. They can't just be dismissed as if you're just replaying the game when you beat them. Otherwiise people would just call Tri 18 monsters (with a few being near clones) and filler fluff/replays.
I don't think time trial medals are arbitrary, especially when a game is designed around it. So with this logic, going for an 'A' Rank run in the original Resident Evil is not 'pure' content? You are changing the way you play the game to derive more value out of the base content and that is also a game that can be completed in less than 2 hours. Isn't that the whole point of a game with replay value? Having goals to strive for after you beat the game? WTF kind of bullshit comment is this!?
Resident Evil was absolutely a short game with little content. So is Steel Diver.
If I make a game with three levels, but you can replay those levels 80 times in 80 very slightly different ways to collect everything and get the best times, the answer is still "This game is very light on content." Most people are not going to have the patience to play the same content over and over and over again with the slight variances in enemy placement or conditions.
I understand this is difficult to accept for some who actually liked this tech demo product, but that is the critical core difference between how reviewers are perceiving things and how the few who actually like Steel Diver are perceiving things.
The few who like Steel Diver don't care that they're playing the absurdly tiny amount of content over and over because they apparently enjoy the gameplay so much they can overlook the unarguably lazy, rushed game design. But that doesn't excuse the lack of content. An ideal game would have many missions and a great variety of levels and conditions an enemies that you could gradually unlock all these things over.
The game's main mode has seven missions, full stop. The strategy mode has ten missions, and beating a single mission is extremely quick if you tried it out at all. I have. You unlock a hard mode that changes enemy placements and certain conditions within the same similar seven missions.
You're making a poor argument against what i said. The game juggles its ultra low amount of content in a way that makes you - and others - feel like they're getting their money worth. But objectively, the game has poor amount of pure content. They arbitrarily extended the game time in the cheapest, most time saving way possible: they simply used the same assets and changed the way things were so you felt you were getting more challenge.
I'm not debating that though. Like you said it's still different content (maybe not "pure content" or in your eyes worthwhile content), even if they are using the same assets. And while I would argue that each sub controls different enough to make the levels feel new again, obviously your not going to care (or believe me) because you don't like the game. I understand that.
But new different content is still content and playing through these missions with the three different subs, beating levels on expert with new enemies and mine placement, trying to unlock all the decals, beating the dev ghosts on normal and the expert mode, beating all the dev ghosts (3 per course) on the seperate time trail levels (8 courses), and completeing all the strategy maps is well over ten hours of content.
So for reviews to report that this is only a three hour game is wrong. There is simply no way you could unlock all the content or much less fully complete the game in that time frame. I haven't even read one review that mentioned the seperate Expert mode, and I've only read one that mentioned the time trail levels were different courses then the campaign levels.
If that's the way you count content, then any racing game really has a billion hours of gameplay because you didn't really complete a track until you play it with every car since they all control slightly differently.
There is a line between a rushed, light on content game which pads its light content with crap so that it feels longer than it is and a game that actually has tons of content and spreads the crap out over the course of the assets that were designed.
One is clearly superior, and one is clearly not going to be judged harshly. I'm not saying that games like Steel Diver are completely without merit, I'm saying it's wrong to lash out at reviewers here for correctly labeling the problem with Steel Diver's lack of content.
And that's coming from me, who think all reviewers are crap.
I like the game, but subjectiveness aside, it is low on pure content. Not sure why the argument is needed in this particular instance. I mean, its like saying the original Tetris was full of content. Regardless of how outstanding of a game it was/is or how many hours you can pump into it(which is what I base my purchases off of), the content level is low.
Playing through the same shit with a new sub or on a different difficulty should never be considered part of the length of the game. Optional decal collecting or whatever shouldn't be, either.
Playing through the same shit with a new sub or on a different difficulty should never be considered part of the length of the game. Optional decal collecting or whatever shouldn't be, either.
Did you finish this "shit" to see the difference? Just looking to hear why people disagree with what he's saying rather than just that they disagree with some generalisation. The way he says it, it sounds new enough. Like a fighting game with a different character, you use the same core gameplay in different ways to use his powers and make up for his weaknesses. And the difficulty makes the old levels a new enough challenge rather than just make you take more damage and the enemies less or similar. It's not like that?
Resident Evil was absolutely a short game with little content. So is Steel Diver.
If I make a game with three levels, but you can replay those levels 80 times in 80 very slightly different ways to collect everything and get the best times, the answer is still "This game is very light on content." Most people are not going to have the patience to play the same content over and over and over again with the slight variances in enemy placement or conditions.
I understand this is difficult to accept for some who actually liked this tech demo product, but that is the critical core difference between how reviewers are perceiving things and how the few who actually like Steel Diver are perceiving things.
The few who like Steel Diver don't care that they're playing the absurdly tiny amount of content over and over because they apparently enjoy the gameplay so much they can overlook the unarguably lazy, rushed game design. But that doesn't excuse the lack of content. An ideal game would have many missions and a great variety of levels and conditions an enemies that you could gradually unlock all these things over.
A tech demo product would be something like Yoshi Touch and Go. Steel Diver has enough content to easily be considered as much as a game as say PilotWings Resort, Punchout (Wii), or Excite Truck.
In the overall scheme of things Steel Diver has 28 UNIQUE missions. Some take at least ten minutes to complete, and if you choose to you can triple your play time to unlock a Expert Mode with basically halfway new missions.
Amir0x said:
If that's the way you count content, then any racing game really has a billion hours of gameplay because you didn't really complete a track until you play it with every car since they all control slightly differently.
There is a line between a rushed, light on content game which pads its light content with crap so that it feels longer than it is and a game that actually has tons of content and spreads the crap out over the course of the assets that were designed.
One is clearly superior, and one is clearly not going to be judged harshly
