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Are current PC games a full "Generational Leap" ahead of current console games?

I've heard so many divergent opinions on this.

At one end of the spectrum there is the "lulz consoles" crowd, who often joke about phones/calculators having better hardware than conosles and who think that comparing current PC games to current console games is like comparing GT5 to Pole Position on the Atari 2600.

At the other side of the spectrum, I've seen folks who are more along the lines of "meh... sure games look great at 1080p, 60 fps with tons of AA, but the difference in the overall visual package isn't that huge. Comparing a game like say, Uncharted 3 to the Witcher 2 doesn't really yeild that huge of a difference in the overall visual package."

The recent port of the original Crysis over to the PS3/360, and the current work being done on bringing the Witcher 2 to 360 kind of gets you thinking a little....

It's totally unimaginable to think of a game experience like MGS 3 or San Andreas running on a PS1. It's completely unthinkbable to imagine, say, the Assassin's Creed engine running on a PS2, no matter how much you reduced the graphics. Each gen seems to have brought new gaming experiences that were essentially impossible on previous hardware.

But here we are nearly 7 years since the beginning of this console gen, and it seems that pretty much any PC game in existence can be ported over to the consoles, and still be essentially the same experience, aside from the inferior visuals.

This raises another question. Are generational leaps defined simply by improvements in graphical fidelity? Or is it less about graphics and more about creating new experiences that simply weren't possible on previous hardware?

I completely and fully understand that in terms of hardware, PC's are indeed several generations ahead of consoles. But question this thread is posing is more along the lines of software. Are the games themselves that are currently available on PC's what you would consider a full generational leap over the games available on consoles? (ignoring the theoretical power of kickass PC hardware)

So what do you think gaf? Is 1080p, 60fps and tons of AA enough to be considered a true generational leap? Or is a generational leap less about better graphics and more about providing new experiences that weren't possible on previous hardware?

Are the current games (games, not hardware) available on PC's what you would consider a full generational leap over what's available on consoles?

oh, and in b4 inevitable "yes. /thread." and "first post nails it" "didn'treadlol.gif" etc. :p
 

Log4Girlz

Member
The games? No...but the hardware is like 2 generational leaps ahead if not more. If you took a decent PC today and coded directly to the specific hardware, games would look batshit insane.
 

Darkkn

Member
No. Games get made to console market in mind so assets, visual effects and scenes(gameplay areas) are not getting exploited to maximum potential.

Games look a lot better on PC:s now. The Witcher 2 especially is amazing looking, so is BF3 and Crysis 2. But all of these games were made consoles in mind.
When next generation of consoles come around, it frees artists to fully exploit the modern hardware. Consoles are also more efficient, because games are coded closer to the hardware.

First next-gen games will look like PC games today, but later releases will look a ton better.
 

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Even though I'm a console gamer first, I'm going to go with the ''Consoles are holding back PC gaming'' theory because the difference between console gaming and PC gaming is negligible, and if FPS is your deal-breaker, well that's your opinion.

But for me, it's the visuals, and what I'm seeing on consoles practically mirrors what I'm seeing on the PC; sure if you want a more fluid experience a PC is your choice, not to mention the modding scene, but there is no 'leap' so to speak, it's just a better experience if you want to overhaul the game (if you're into that). Some may argue that the consoles are better because of the community, etc. What it all boils down to is that we're all biased in one way or the other, and your platform of choice corresponds to your likes.

Remember, publishers want to bring an identical experience to all those who purchase their games out of fairness. (Fuck you Bethesda)
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
Visually, most aren't, but when most games are running at 1080p (or higher) with added detail and 60fps, it certainly feels that way.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
The games? No...but the hardware is like 2 generational leaps ahead if not more. If you took a decent PC today and coded directly to the specific hardware, games would look batshit insane.
.

And since games are everything. There can be a final and closing "no".
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
"Uncharted 3 to the Witcher 2 doesn't really yeild that huge of a difference in the overall visual package"

A lot of times people compare Uncharted 3 on a TV at 7 feet away with Witcher 2 on a monitor a foot away from your eyes.

An easy comparison is to take Witcher 2 on a modern computer at 1080p with bells and whistles and play for a bit. Then turn it down to console specs of 720p or less with little if any aa/af and play the same bit again on the same monitor. The difference will be immediate and drastic.
 
Yeah, I think so, at least for image quality and performance. Assets are still in the same ballpark with higher res textures on PC, plus the addition of tessellation, ssao and whatnot.


It's not a massive leap like if you compare Halo 1 to Halo Reach or something, but I think there's still a huge (generational) difference between MGS3 PS2 and MGS3 HD at 60 fps. Right now the PC is that.

Also, when next gen consoles arrive, current PCs are going to be enough to handle those games. Like how Call of Duty 2 looked way better on PCs before it was ever released for the Xbox 360, and the 360 version was still a generational leap over Xbox 1 shooters.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
For those who don't say Battlefield 3 on Ultra settings has clearly never played it on both PC and then the Xbox version.

It's night and day.
 

Zzoram

Member
Probably not.

Due to console ports holding back the graphics, PC games are only half a generation ahead graphically. Textures, AA, AF, and shadows are all better on PC, as is frame rate, but typically there are no extra special effects.

I guess some games have added PhysX particle effects for nVidia cards only that might push it towards another generation.

I think motion capture and lip syncing has to improve though before we are truly into the next generation.
 
Battlefield 3 on PC is generations ahead of consoles both visually and in a very meaningful way technically. Vastly smaller maps and player counts on console because the hardware isn't up to the task.

But for the most part the technical gap in regards to hardware capability doesn't effect gameplay on console. Its getting there though.
 

kokujin

Banned
When a big company decides to pour real money into a PC game, then it will become apparent, but consoles unfortunately are easy to make money out of, so they will get all the attention.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
For those who don't say Battlefield 3 on Ultra settings has clearly never played it on both PC and then the Xbox version.

It's night and day.
Sure there is a difference -- a difference that alters the experience for the better, but a generational one? Not even close.
 
Developers aren't taking advantage of the hardware. Most PC games are still using directx 9 after all these years. I wouldn't call the graphical improvements negligible, though. At this point, when I go back to playing a console game, the IQ is so disappointing on top of the poor framerate, its hard to appreciate the visuals, even when it comes to the best looking console games. At least, when the next batch of consoles arrive, PCs will be more then ready for the bump in requirements.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Let me just put it this way: if next-gen games will look like The Witcher 2, then I will be in heaven.
 

aeolist

Banned
Developers aren't taking advantage of the hardware. Most PC games are still using directx 9 after all these years. I wouldn't call the graphical improvements negligible, though. At this point, when I go back to playing a console game, the IQ is so disappointing on top of the poor framerate, its hard to appreciate the visuals, even when it comes to the best looking console games. At least, when the next batch of consoles arrive, PCs will be more then ready for the bump in requirements.
We're finally seeing a lot of PC games move away from DX9 actually.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
In BF3's case, yes, it is a generational leap. It's what you get when devs focus on modern PC hardware.
Yes, but even that 'focus' was to a degree half-assed, and you can tell. And given it's a multiplat, it draws from similar assets for all platforms. Are you telling me BF3 on PC compared to BF3 on consoles is as significant a difference as, say, Killzone 1 to Killzone 2?
 

aeolist

Banned
Yes, but even that 'focus' was to a degree half-assed, and you can tell. And given it's a multiplat, it draws from similar assets for all platforms. Are you telling me BF3 on PC compared to BF3 on consoles is as significant a difference as, say, Killzone 1 to Killzone 2?
It's definitely the difference between Killzone PS3 and Killzone PS4. The jump is not going to be nearly as big as last time for lots of different reasons.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
It's definitely the difference between Killzone PS3 and Killzone PS4. The jump is not going to be nearly as big as last time for lots of different reasons.
... Are you serious? How does Killzone PS4 look then?
 

Darkkn

Member
Battlefield 3 is definitely the poster boy of 'next-gen' gaming. PC version is developed on DX11 from ground up and it's using it's functionality to great extend with compute shaders etc. It's not just 'hey we made this dx9 game to use dx11 api'. DX11 also narrows the performance difference between windows DX and consoles and it can be seen in sublime performance of BF3.

PC devs, please ditch dx9 already.
 

Zzoram

Member
I think people are expecting too much from the upcoming consoles.

People expect magic and Sony to sell another console at a $400/unit loss. That's not happening.

What that means is that next generation consoles will at best have the power of a year or two old high end PC video card, and probably not be able to maintain 1080p and all cheat and use either 720p or some weird middle like 900p, and still likely be aimed at 30fps.
 

Serialxp

Banned
I think the other way, pc gamers think that the diference is big because they play 2 feets away from the screen. I play my pc and my consoles in the same 50 pol plasma and I think that witcher 2 (1080p, max settings with out ubersample) isn´t better than uncharted 3. To tell the truth I think that there is little diference in 1080p to 720p.


"Uncharted 3 to the Witcher 2 doesn't really yeild that huge of a difference in the overall visual package"

A lot of times people compare Uncharted 3 on a TV at 7 feet away with Witcher 2 on a monitor a foot away from your eyes.

An easy comparison is to take Witcher 2 on a modern computer at 1080p with bells and whistles and play for a bit. Then turn it down to console specs of 720p or less with little if any aa/af and play the same bit again on the same monitor. The difference will be immediate and drastic.
 
Yes, but even that 'focus' was to a degree half-assed, and you can tell. And given it's a multiplat, it draws from similar assets for all platforms. Are you telling me BF3 on PC compared to BF3 on consoles is as significant a difference as, say, Killzone 1 to Killzone 2?

A resounding, "yes."

Completely disregard the graphical improvements for a moment, and just consider how different the maps and sizes are, in addition to the number of players and greatly improved sound. A world of difference.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I think the other way, pc gamers think that the diference is big because they play 2 feets away from the screen. I play my pc and my consoles in the same 50 pol plasma and I think that witcher 2 (1080p, max settings with out ubersample) isn´t better than uncharted 3. To tell the truth I think that there is little diference in 1080p to 720p.

You must be sitting really, really far away from the screen.
 

kokujin

Banned
People expect magic and Sony to sell another console at a $400/unit loss. That's not happening.

What that means is that next generation consoles will at best have the power of a year or two old high end PC video card, and probably not be able to maintain 1080p and all cheat and use either 720p or some weird middle like 900p, and still likely be aimed at 30fps.

That's what I'm thinking, this is probably why they've held off on newer consoles.

Yep. Even when I go back to it, it looks as mind blowing as the first time.

The texture work in that game is just insane.

haha ...yeah for sure.


and i've seen women who looked fine from a distance ...but up close, fugly. same deal applies with the games.

Most console games are like this, vaseline all over the place, jaggies, sub HD, bad textures.
 

aeolist

Banned
... Are you serious? How does Killzone PS4 look then?
Much like Killzone PS3 with better IQ, slightly better assets, and hopefully a better framerate.

We're hitting a glass ceiling in terms of development costs, graphical quality, power consumption, and first party hardware budgets all at once. Next-gen design will be about efficiency.
 
You still won't see many games running at 1080p & 60 fps next generation, and I'll be utterly shocked if any console has something even close to a 7970 inside, but the games should still look much better than The Witcher 2 and BF3. As has already been said, even the best looking PC games are using technologies that still work well on consoles.

Even if raw graphical fidelity is the same as modern PC games, improvements in animation, character interaction and physics would make a huge difference. Those things, along with AI, tend to improve drastically with each new generation.
 

Grayman

Member
It's totally unimaginable to think of a game experience like MGS 3 or San Andreas running on a PS1. It's completely unthinkbable to imagine, say, the Assassin's Creed engine running on a PS2, no matter how much you reduced the graphics. Each gen seems to have brought new gaming experiences that were essentially impossible on previous hardware.

The scope differences are usually a budget thing. On one platform the games have fewer potential sales so within reasonable budgets there are trade offs between asset quality and number. Hard Reset can look great but with that comes the restrained structure of a game like Uncharted.

If you look at Assassin's Creed, what is the next jump from there? Open world with going in all the buildings? that is more of a money problem than a power one. For creativity the PC scene right now is doing lower dollar and new genres.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It really depends on how much image quality matters to you. Just go check out the Dolphin thread full of Wii game shots with amazing IQ to see what a difference it can make.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Much like Killzone PS3 with better IQ, slightly better assets, and hopefully a better framerate.

We're hitting a glass ceiling in terms of development costs, graphical quality, power consumption, and first party hardware budgets all at once. Next-gen design will be about efficiency.
In general you could argue that maybe. But you think Sony won't be doing all it can to make Killzone 4 as good looking as possible to market the shit out of the PS4? Budgets have exceptions, especially when first party
 

aeolist

Banned
In general you could argue that maybe. But you think Sony won't be doing all it can to make Killzone 4 as good looking as possible to market the shit out of the PS4, budgets have exceptions, especially when first party
Eventually Sony is going to want some kind of return on their investment with the Playstation hardware and games. They're not doing as well as Microsoft financially and need to be much smarter about how they spend their money.
 

SparkTR

Member
I agree that in regards to image quality it's a generation ahead. Compare the clarity of any recent PC game with AA/AF, 1080p and 60fps to even the the best looking console game and you'll see a drastic difference in that regard. Next generation I believe that's where we'll see the most immediate and drastic difference from what we're seeing on consoles now.
 

Zzoram

Member
I hope for a disproportionately larger increase in RAM than in CPU/GPU power for next generation consoles. RAM is a far bigger bottleneck for textures and large open world games than the other specs.
 
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