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Argentines seek peaceful resolution in Falklands, Brits says its settled.

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Ripclawe

Banned
Damn right it is and you ain't getting the oil.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10077158


London's tabloids and British leaders are depicting Argentina as dangerous and belligerent 30 years after its invasion of the Falkland Islands. Argentines say Britain should consider its own history of waging war around the globe, and acknowledge that the islands and seas around them rightfully belong to Argentina.

Despite weeks of overheated rhetoric, there seems to be zero hunger among Argentines for another "military adventure" no matter how much they want to reclaim the islands 300 miles off their southern shores.

Tensions are sure to rise even more with the London's Daily Mail reporting Saturday that British Prime Minister David Cameron personally approved sending a nuclear submarine to the Falklands before the April 2 anniversary. The sub reportedly carries a team of Spanish speakers to monitor regional communications, and cruise missiles to deter Argentina's military.

Cameron's office and the U.K. Foreign Office referred calls to the Ministry of Defense, which said it does not comment on submarine deployments, but Argentines were already upset that London dispatched Prince William to the islands on a six-week military tour, along with the Royal Navy's most advanced destroyer, the HMS Dauntless.

"It seems to me to be an ostentatious and unnecessary show of force," Argentine Defense Minister Arturo Puricelli said Friday. "We could have told them that they could have saved themselves thousands of pounds."

Every Argentine schoolchild is taught that the British stole the Malvinas, as Argentines call the islands, as well as the South Georgia and South Sandwich islands nearly two centuries ago, claiming along with them a huge expanse of the South Atlantic.

But hardly anyone here wants to use force to recover them, least of all President Cristina Fernandez.


She has ordered the declassification of the Rattenbach Report, a long-secret analysis of mistakes made as the 1976-83 military junta went to war with Britain in 1982. She said she wants it understood that her campaign to recover Argentine territory will remain one of diplomacy and economic pressure.

Argentina's dictatorship invaded to cover up its torture and killing of political opponents and distract people from a devastated economy, Fernandez said. "They couldn't think of anything better to do than send unprepared boys to a suicidal war."

A total of 649 Argentines and 257 Britons died in the 74-day war, humiliating the junta and hastening Argentina's return to democracy. Declassifying the report, which described the invasion as a poorly planned "military adventure," will show "it wasn't a decision of the Argentine people, but of a despotic government," Fernandez said.

Col. Augusto Rattenbach recalled in an interview with The Associated Press how his father, Gen. Benjamin Rattenbach, challenged the junta, calling dictators to testify and then urging them to reveal their mistakes. He died suddenly of a stroke only days after learning his work had been shelved.

"My father didn't want to hide anything," Rattenbach said, insisting that "many of the report's lessons are just as valid today."

For years, Argentines were so ashamed of the dictatorship that they wanted to forget about the islands. Polls suggest that's no longer the case.

Almost three-fourths of Argentines, cutting across all ages and classes, say recovering the islands is important, and more than two-thirds said they support Fernandez's campaign, according to the Ibarometro polling firm.

Yet despite a radical group's burning of a British flag Thursday that was widely broadcast in Britain, just 3 percent of Argentines say they would support a military solution, the firm found. The findings were based on a Jan. 24 survey of 1,000 people in metropolitan Buenos Aires, home to a third of Argentina's population. The poll's error margin was three percentage points.

Nearly 79 percent of those surveyed favor diplomacy or negotiations to resolve the dispute.

Such unity is "not often found in an Argentina so divided and politicized," said Ignacio Ramirez, Ibarometro's polling director.

"Any way of recovering the islands is considered legitimate, except for war," he added. "There is a widespread attitude among Argentines of not wanting to repeat the errors of the past."

Britain says there is nothing to negotiate. It insists it won't discuss sovereignty over the islands without the support of the Falklanders, a population of about 3,100 who clearly want to remain British.

Argentina would fare badly in a war with Britain in any case. The U.K. has one of the world's strongest militaries, with nearly 230,000 active personnel and a yearly budget of $53 billion. The British Daily Telegraph reported that the Dauntless alone can destroy Argentina's entire air force before it takes off.

Argentina's yearly defense and intelligence spending has dwindled to $2.6 billion, sustaining a tiny fleet and no nuclear submarines. It barely enforces its land borders, let alone the sea.


Instead, Fernandez has persuaded her South American allies to close their ports to Falklands-flagged vessels — itself a largely symbolic move because it doesn't include banning the fishing fleet that operates under Falklands government licenses. Fernandez also has suggested she might close air space to the weekly flight by Chile's LAN Air Lines to the islands.

"The Argentine strategy is to isolate the islands by blocking its supplies and at the same time isolating them diplomatically from the continent, to force London to negotiate over their sovereignty," said Rosendo Fraga, another political analyst in Buenos Aires.

Much more than historical pride is at stake, since the southern seas contain rich fisheries and potentially vast stores of oil and gas.

Rockhopper Exploration PLC, a British firm, is seeking a $2 billion investment from a major oil company after confirming 1.3 billion barrels of potentially recoverable oil just north of the Falklands, with production to start as early as 2016. The royalties could have a huge impact on Falklanders who now depend largely on sheep and tourists for income.

But any company that signs on with Rockhopper would lose any chance of doing business in Argentina, which has barred companies from supporting oil exploration near the islands.


"It certainly raises the stakes," said Juliette Kerr, a Latin America energy analyst with IHS Global Insight in London. "For companies active in Argentina ... I don't think any of them would go anywhere near there."

"The problem of the Malvinas is called 'oil'," agreed Rattenbach. "If there hadn't been discoveries of huge quantities of undersea oil, we could rapidly reach a deal."

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Salvadora

Member
They won't try to take the islands through force again right? They consider themselves British, There is nothing to discuss.
 

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
It should indeed belong to the Argentines, but its too late now because the local population is british based and will side with the UK, it's just crying over something that they can't change. I wonder if Christina has something important going on because she always trots out the malvinas patriotic bullshit when she needs a popularity boost.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Does anyone actually believes that we will declare war? We have a democratic competent non drunk ruled government now.

This is jut an awful reminder of a dark past.
 
Does anyone know the Argentinian government counter to the whole "the inhabitants want to remain British" argument? Would they simply evict the British citizens from the island?

Thanks for the story by the way, I had no idea about some of these nuances of the Falklands War, in particular the reason the-then despotic regime of Argentina actually invaded. Interesting.
 
Argentina has never actually ruled the falklands and historically has a better claim to uruguay than they have to the islands, the people there want to remain british, case closed
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Does anyone know the Argentinian government counter to the whole "the inhabitants want to remain British" argument? Would they simply evict the British citizens from the island?

Thanks for the story by the way, I had no idea about some of these nuances of the Falklands War, in particular the reason the-then despotic regime of Argentina actually invaded. Interesting.
Yeah back then we had a military regime ruled by a drunk. Tatcher + Drunk == Stupid War

BTW no one wants to kick the British inhabitants though.
 
It should indeed belong to the Argentines, but its too late now because the local population is british based and will side with the UK, it's just crying over something that they can't change. I wonder if Christina has something important going on because she always trots out the malvinas patriotic bullshit when she needs a popularity boost.

And by what logic should it belong to Argentina ?
 
The same reason cuba really belongs to the USA!!!!

Exactly the point I was making, most people that think Argentina should have them simply because of geography and if that actually matters fuck Cuba even Canada should belong to America, Portugal should give its self to Spain, Australia should rule new Zealand and so on
 
The Treaty of Tordesillas? You'd never heard of it?
I was aware that the countries decided to divide the ''new world'', but I wasn't aware the Pope was involved like this. It makes sense though I guess, since they were probably giddy with anticipation over spreading their word of God. Just disgusting.
Fuck you, one day we will take what is ours!
There are no jobs on the other side of the ocean either though.
>.> Don't kill me, please.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Oh wow i never knew about this:
1966: An Aerolíneas Argentinas DC-4 hijacked by 20 terrorists calling themselves 'Condors' crash lands on Stanley race course. Islanders assuming the aircraft was in trouble rush to assist and are taken hostage. Subjected to Country and Western music for 24 hrs the terrorists surrender and are repatriated to Argentina. Argentine tactical divers are landed by submarine ARA Santiago del Estero to conduct covert reconnaissance of suitable landing sites.

BTW Falklands history is not part of the education plan. Pretty crazy huh? (At least during my time)
 

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
Oh wow i never knew about this:


BTW Falklands history is not part of the education plan. Pretty crazy huh? (At least during my time)

I think 24 hours of country music would break me as well.


It was barely touched on at the american international school I went to in Buenos Aires as well, and whenever it was, the wealthy argentines that attended make a huge stink out of it (they did this with the dirty war as well) claiming it was all lies made up by yankees, brits, and communists.
 

BlueMagic

Member
Oh wow i never knew about this:


BTW Falklands history is not part of the education plan. Pretty crazy huh? (At least during my time)

Dunno about you but I recall having to study some of it. Or maybe it was some additional work not directly related to the plan, I don't remember.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Argentina has no claim. The British have been in control of the islands longer than Argentina has even been a country. Now of they want to give it to the indigenous peoples from there that'd be fine.
 

IceCold

Member
I was aware that the countries decided to divide the ''new world'', but I wasn't aware the Pope was involved like this. It makes sense though I guess, since they were probably giddy with anticipation over spreading their word of God. Just disgusting.

There are no jobs on the other side of the ocean either though.
>.> Don't kill me, please.

Most countries didn't care about the treaty except for Portugal and Spain. It was a good way to prevent further conflict between the two countries. The creation of the Treaty is pretty interesting though. The Pope was Spanish at a time and the previous bulls of it largely favored Spain Thankfully for Portugal, D. João II, changed things and moved the delimitation more west line so that Portugal could have access to Brazil (some say this is proof that Portugal knew that Brazil existed before 1500).
 
Argentina has no claim. The British have been in control of the islands longer than Argentina has even been a country. Now of they want to give it to the indigenous peoples from there that'd be fine.

There were no indigenous people there, the closest thing to indigenous there's ever been are the british, in fact if Argentina are that bothered about what's right maybe they should give their whole country back to indigenous people from there
 
Argentina has no claim. The British have been in control of the islands longer than Argentina has even been a country. Now of they want to give it to the indigenous peoples from there that'd be fine.

The Islanders don't want independence from Britain because they don't trust the Argentinians to hold up their end of the bargain and respect their nation status.
 
As soon as the majority of people on the Flakland Islands wish to become part of Argentina I shall support Argentina's claim. Until then I will fully support the inhabitants' choice in remaining part of the UK.
 
i don't understand why argentina wants those islands in the first place

Oil. Estimates that I have seen say there is around 12bn barrels of oil within the FI limits. That plus precious metals, and possibly some natural gas.

How much of the oil is recoverable is disputed, but some say it should be at least 4bn barrels at current prices.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Most countries didn't care about the treaty except for Portugal and Spain. It was a good way to prevent further conflict between the two countries. The creation of the Treaty is pretty interesting though. The Pope was Spanish at a time and the previous bulls of it largely favored Spain Thankfully for Portugal, D. João II, changed things and moved the delimitation more west line so that Portugal could have access to Brazil (some say this is proof that Portugal knew that Brazil existed before 1500).

even if this treaty was ever valid, it's completely unenforceable in regards to Great Britain once the Church of England broke off from the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Most countries didn't care about the treaty except for Portugal and Spain. It was a good way to prevent further conflict between the two countries. The creation of the Treaty is pretty interesting though. The Pope was Spanish at a time and the previous bulls of it largely favored Spain Thankfully for Portugal, D. João II, changed things and moved the delimitation more west line so that Portugal could have access to Brazil (some say this is proof that Portugal knew that Brazil existed before 1500).
Aha, interesting.

I really wonder how these religious institutions back then justified the atrocities performed by all these colonial powers. The mental gymnastics they must have been doing to justify the murder and oppression of so many people must have been extraordinary.
Shell is already part British, so I don't think they particulary care either way.
I hadn't even thought of that.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Aha, interesting.

I really wonder how these religious institutions back then justified the atrocities performed by all these colonial powers. The mental gymnastics they must have been doing to justify the murder and oppression of so many people must have been extraordinary.

The Church has always been about political control. Morality is just the tool they used the keep the plebs in check (as it's done today too sadly...).
 

Rourkey

Member
One of the people I work with is an investor and sits on the board of one the companies with drilling licenses they have a rig out there now. I think the plan is to sell the rights if they find the oil.

Its a shame that the licensing money etc from the oil will go to the 3000 Falklanders and not go to help out with the UK's national debt, still they have said they will chip in for their defence if they do get rich which is generous of them I suppose..

The funny thing is is that if the Argentineans didn't invade in 1982 became a democracy and was nice to the Falklanders they'd have probably have the Islands by now, the British were trying to persuade the locals at the time which is one of the reasons they thought the UK wouldn't fight back.
 
If the Argentine government would just shut up accept the situation and renounce all claim on the islands they could probably do quite well out the falskland oil boom with refinerys and stuff but if they wanna carry on like this fuck them give the contracts to Chile and uruguay
 
If the Argentine government would just shut up accept the situation and renounce all claim on the islands they could probably do quite well out the falskland oil boom with refinerys and stuff but if they wanna carry on like this fuck them give the contracts to Chile and uruguay

More likely Shell and BP.
 

Meadows

Banned
The Argentines lost any right to negotiate on the islands sovereignty when they unilaterally invaded it 30 years ago.

It is not up for discussion.
 
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