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Have gamers got too much power?

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/345396/features/have-gamers-got-too-much-power/

Soooo... Apparently, Mass Effect 3's ending is controversial because it leaves a lot of questions unanswered. And the fans aren't happy about that at all.

Normally this wouldn't be particularly newsworthy - after all, nine out of every ten video game endings are drenched in generous lashings of weak sauce. But this time instead of shrugging their shoulders and accepting it, an angry swarm of ME fans bit back by swamping the internet with a deluge of angry messages aimed at BioWare.

In fact, they bit back with such ferocity and in such numbers that BioWare co-founder Dr Ray Muzyka was forced to publicly address their complaints on the Mass Effect website, in the process hinting that they were working on DLC which would 'fix' ME3's ending.


The dawn of social media has made it easier than ever before for the person on the street to get their voice heard, and MassEffectGate is the first (and presumably not the last) large-scale example of gamers clubbing together as a community to force changes upon a game they love but deem flawed. But is this brave new world order necessarily a good thing?

Certainly, anything that removes the barrier between developer and consumer is positive. While publishers are notoriously thorny to criticism, most developers we've met just want to make good games, so value feedback. And it's never been easier to compress your suggestions into 140 characters and fire them into developer and publisher's eyes.

The downside to all this is that all opinions aren't equal, and there's no inherent filtering system. Any old crazy-mouth can have their say on the internet, and so it's the developers' duty to separate the discerning from the deranged. This is where BioWare has failed the gaming community. Although the official Retake ME3 movement is numerically strong, there's more than a whiff of bandwagon-hopping about it.

If you look beyond the numbers you'll find the content of their argument to be weak. They propose a 'more pleasant ending' with alternatives including Shepard 'settling down with his lover' or 'becoming an intergalactic diplomat'. Do either of these really sound like an electrifying way to cap off an epic sci-fi trilogy?

There's a line between constructive criticism and obnoxious entitlement, and the Retake ME3 crowd hasn't just crossed it but leapt over it in moon boots. The whole sorry episode could have potentially disastrous ramifications for our hobby. Games today are conservative enough in design thanks to commercial pressure, without devs thinking they need to rein it in even further to avoid a backlash from their own fanbase.

Creativity, originality and artistic autonomy are traits to be treasured, and hopefully in the future fans will remember that before taking to Twitter or fleeing to Facebook.

What do you think? Are players being given too much power and if so what effect do you think this will have?

Some valid points.

Can gamers be trusted?
Do you trust the opinion of people on message boards when it comes to storytelling in video games?
Has Bioware handled the situation in a way becoming of a AAA developer?
Do you think gamers are "killing the industry" [via Twitter]?
 

Valnen

Member
Sometimes gamer feedback can help a game. (Blizzard betas have numerous examples of this)

Sometimes it can harm it if it is listened to too much (WoW live servers).
 
Gamers too much power? Hah. If gamers had much power, then the big-ass publishers wouldn't constantly grind their dicks on our wallets.
If you give your customers a shitty product, you'll have to face the consequences - whether they are warranted or not. In this specific case, everything blew out of proportion way too much, but I hope it might be a pointer for publishers to see that gamers aren't just dumb sheep you can dump your polished turds onto.
 
If you look beyond the numbers you'll find the content of their argument to be weak. They propose a 'more pleasant ending' with alternatives including Shepard 'settling down with his lover' or 'becoming an intergalactic diplomat'. Do either of these really sound like an electrifying way to cap off an epic sci-fi trilogy?
Yeah that's not the argument at all.

You can still make the entitlement case without completely misrepresenting people's actual issues. It's not hard.
 
Do you trust the opinion of people on message boards when it comes to storytelling in video games?

Why wouldn't I? Especially when the alternative has confused the role of journalism & criticism.

Has Bioware handled the situation in a way becoming of a AAA developer?

lol, no.

Do you think gamers are "killing the industry" [via Twitter]?

If this is what killing the industry looks like, I want more blood on the streets.
 

daviyoung

Banned
Creativity, originality and artistic autonomy are traits to be treasured, and hopefully in the future fans will remember that before taking to Twitter or fleeing to Facebook.

Oh, I see. It's the fans' fault Bioware are creatively and artistically bankrupt.
 
If you look beyond the numbers you'll find the content of their argument to be weak. They propose a 'more pleasant ending' with alternatives including Shepard 'settling down with his lover' or 'becoming an intergalactic diplomat'. Do either of these really sound like an electrifying way to cap off an epic sci-fi trilogy?

Wrong. How long has the ME3 ending discussion been publicly going on that the author still thinks it was about getting a happy ending? Jesus.

Gamers would have true "power" if they voted with their wallets more.
 

jett

D-Member
I don't think they have much power at all, but most gamers really are some of the most entitled bunch I've seen.
 
Gamers are your consumers = if my consumers tell me they think my service is shit and won't buy my products anymore I should get worried.
 

Riposte

Member
BioWare set themselves up for whatever trouble they got. Their fanbase has been grown to expect pandering.
 

injurai

Banned
Gamer's don't have true power, the publishers and devs choose when to reap the benefits of ideas that were gamer born. That being said, the few good ideas the community has often get drowned out in the stupid shit that we complain about.
 

Mr Nash

square pies = communism
Ultimately it's up to the developer to filter the ideas the community is tossing at it. Not all ideas are good, but they shouldn't all be dismissed either as entitled gamer mumbo jumbo or whatever. I've found Blizzard to do a reasonably good job of sifting through what people who play their games want, and try and implement the good stuff where they can. Just because a loud group of people start screaming, "I want this!" doesn't 100% mean a developer should implement it. In the end, it's up to the people making the game to use their judgement to decide if its worth adding X to a game. Saying "how high" every time the community says "jump" is just as bad as outright ignoring all of their concerns.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Last time I checked, gamers had very little power.

Why do so many journalists feel compelled to antagonize consumers and come to the rescue of developers?
 

Valnen

Member
BioWare set themselves up for whatever trouble they got. Their fanbase has been grown to expect pandering.

It's true that the ultimate power is still in the hands of the developer, but gamers really should stop pressuring them, because honestly oftentimes the developers just know better. It's too common that a developers takes a good game and puts in shitty changes at the request of the "community", at least in MMO's.

"Nerf this! Nerf that! Remove that!" Ugh...
 

Aeana

Member
So what you're asking is if consumers have too much power?
Video games are products, so consumers should have the power to shape the market before them.
 

JGS

Banned
I don't think so. I think manufacturers have the most and force next gen for increased sales. Developers are next and they invest on what they feel like. Gamers often don't know what they want in terms of new gameplay experiences until it is reveiled by these two industries.
 
Gamers are your consumers = if my consumers tell me they think my service is shit and won't buy my products anymore I should get worried.

But are the vocal minority of angry, internet types ruining it for Joe Gamer; the guy that just wants to have a good time and experience the world Bioware envisioned?
 
This weird divide between gamers and journalists post-ME3 kinda fascinates me. It's definitely existed for a while, but I've never seen quite this much outright hostility.
 

ElFly

Member
But are the vocal minority of angry, internet types ruining it for Joe Gamer; the guy that just wants to have a good time and experience the world Bioware envisioned?

Explain to me how an extended ending is ruining it for Joe Gamer.

This weird divide between gamers and journalists post-ME3 kinda fascinates me. It's definitely existed for a while, but I've never seen quite this much outright hostility.

IMHO it is cause we caught a lot of game journalists giving perfect scores to ME3 when the ending -and a lot of the game- is not up to that level of quality.
 
I don't know about anyone else but my problems with ME3's ending had very little to do with "answers." People who haven't beaten it, as well as people who have but liked the ending, don't really seem to understand why some of us didn't like it. When I try to explain to some of my friends that I didn't like it because I felt the writing was sloppy and disjointed and the execution was terrible and without an ounce of satisfaction, I just get labeled as an "entitled" gamer.

The lack of "answers" for me was the absolute least of the problems. Anyway, I didn't write any hate mail or send cupcakes or raise my voice or opinion toward those responsible. It was my decision to spend $60 on the game; nobody forced me. I felt they made a mediocre product with a terrible ending, but you know, it happens. It's not the first time and it won't be the last.
 
The Mass Effect 3 backlash went too far, especially when people said there were no choices and consequences, there were choices and consequences, just disappointing ones.

The charity stuff for Child's Play also came across as self-righteous, if you want to donate to charity that deserves respect but it's a bit distasteful to use it for another agenda

As for power, we don't have enough, we should have enough will power to decide we'll not going to buy some games because of the ridiculous amount of DLC, but we buy it anyway or forcing clients like Origin with our games. The developers control us.
 

injurai

Banned
It's true that the ultimate power is still in the hands of the developer, but gamers really should stop pressuring them, because honestly oftentimes the developers just know better. It's too common that a developers takes a good game and puts in shitty changes at the request of the "community", at least in MMO's.

"Nerf this! Nerf that! Remove that!" Ugh...

Most often the developer is right, most often the publishers wrong.
 

UberTag

Member
You could make this exact same argument about any fan community on the Internet. Because the deranged fans tend to be far more vocal than the discerning ones.

If you can't tell Group A from Group B, the problem is that you can't disseminate the meaningful feedback from the yahoos and you inevitably repeat the same mistakes by either reacting drastically to any feedback you receive regardless of its merit or you ignore ALL of the feedback you receive by dismissing it as inconsequential.

Neither outcome is ideal.
 
If you think you can design a better game, become a game designer.

People don't know what they want until you tell them. Which is ecspecially the case when it comes to Nintendo :p
 

Veezy

que?
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/345396/features/have-gamers-got-too-much-power/



Some valid points.

1. Can gamers be trusted?
2. Do you trust the opinion of people on message boards when it comes to storytelling in video games?
3. Has Bioware handled the situation in a way becoming of a AAA developer?
4. Do you think gamers are "killing the industry" [via Twitter]?

1. With what? The ability to criticize and demand certain content from a product we purchase? Of course.
2. Do I trust people to have an opinion of their own that they might share with other humans? Of course.
3. No, the series conclusion was written the exact way they said it would not happen. Instead of acknowledging this, and not doing it in the first place, they're releasing cut scenes to fill in the holes after people complained. They should have done it right in the first place.
4. No, gamers are the target audience for the industry. They're opinion is just that, an opinion. It may not be %100 correct all the time, but it probably should be considered.

This article isn't making a good point at all. Video game developers and publishers over the past few years have taken steps to make our hobby more expensive and less enjoyable. People voicing that concern isn't a bad thing. Unfortunately, we "voice our concerns" about a video game story versus price gouging, but that's a different argument.
 

Ledsen

Member
So what you're asking is if consumers have too much power?
Video games are products, so consumers should have the power to shape the market before them.

I guess if you see video games as art and not as products, there is an argument to be made here.
 
Last time I checked, gamers had very little power.

Why do so many journalists feel compelled to antagonize consumers and come to the rescue of developers?

I wouldn't be so sure about that first part. You've got tens of thousands of gamers watching tournaments online at a time, funding million dollar kickstarters within hours, etc. There's definitely a growing force of some kind there. But yeah holy shit can they, well we, be a bunch of fucking babies about some things.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
Sounds like this article is cherry picking too many recent events and making a sweeping generalization of what's going on in the industry. There are plenty of developers out there who stick to their guns and release pure crap even without the help of gamers.
 

Sojgat

Member
It's not up to gamers or any type of consumer to maintain the artistic integrity of a product (as if they have any), that onus is on the developer. If Bioware change the ending of ME3 because everyone hates it, that's on them, not the gamers. Total load of rubbish, "any old crazy mouth" is entitled to have their say, if devs listen to bad advice they're the dumb ones.
 

pargonta

Member
some facts:
-the mass effect 3 ending was poorly written (like this thread title) and was presented poorly as well.
-some people who played mass effect 3 saw this and called bioware out on it

some opinions:
Can gamers be trusted?
- in this case, gamers are correct in calling bioware out, and that adds to them being trusted in the future.

Do you trust the opinion of people on message boards when it comes to storytelling in video games?
I trust in aggregating opinions and then adding myself to the mix. but trusting in one opinion on the internet is shortsighted.

Has Bioware handled the situation in a way becoming of a AAA developer?
No, they should own up to being called out. something to the effect of, "you are right, the writing and presentation of the ending was sub-par to the series, genre, and medium."

Do you think gamers are "killing the industry" [via Twitter]?
sometimes yes, sometimes no. with Mass Effect 3 they have called out bad writing because they want the medium to aspire to a higher quality. this is a good thing. sometimes gamers can be divisive and obnoxious, but in the end a culmination of a communities ideas is the bedrock of a thriving medium.
 
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