Interfectum
Member
Gamers don't have too much power... Mass Effect 3 just had a very shitty ending. Shitty enough to piss off a lot of gamers. No real story here other than how bad Bioware fucked up.
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Have gamers got too much power?
- Thread starter butter_stick
- Start date
Haunted
Member
All preparation and networking for when they finally make the jump to be community manager at their favourite company.
Gotta love that advertising-induced industry incest.
But don't you see the gamer entitlement inherent in telling BioWare that you don't like their piece of shit game? They worked hard on that piece of shit, man! You have no right to tell them that you don't like it, because you didn't put your blood, sweat, and tears into it! Do you know how long it took them to download all those stock images? To put those awful-looking 2D sprites in all those incredibly visible places? To record all that terribly written dialogue? For shame.
Movies are seen as art, and there are tons of widely acclaimed movies which are rereleased with changes. The most relevant example would be Blade Runner.
The whole artistic integrity argument is void, ignorant and childish. Tons of pieces of arts are changed after release for a wide variety of reasons. Viewing art as something handed down from heaven and unchangeable just shows how ignorant videogame """""""journalists""""""" are.
Video game enthusiasts were the early adopters of the internet, and therfore, social media. Ours is the most web-savvy and outspoken of groups and the relationship we have developed with the businesses and service providers are going to be different than other media junkies like movie lovers or TV fans.
By the same token game developers have used the internet and social media to deeply connect with their customers. There is much that can be gained from this means of communication. It is an unfiltered relationship though so you are going to hear things you might not want to otherwise.
By the same token game developers have used the internet and social media to deeply connect with their customers. There is much that can be gained from this means of communication. It is an unfiltered relationship though so you are going to hear things you might not want to otherwise.
brandonh83
Banned
I'd frame it.
Which is? In the end if the one paying for it isn't satisfied he won't pay for more.
You can have critics claim that you restaurant is the best in the universe if the general public hate it you'll still be out of business.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Bow, bow to your corporate overlords, gaming press. Laughable.
Bolt Vanderhuge
Member
Son I've been Playing With Power since the 80's. Step off.
Well I've never played Mass Effect so I'm speaking with very little knowledge, but from my understanding the games were advertised as having a continuous story that will depend on your actions which is why your save file is shared between the titles. From what I understand there were only three fixed endings so no matter what you did you'd experience the same ending as everyone else. That could essentially be seen as false advertising. In the UK that can be a very serious accusation so I guess Bioware is lucky they are not based here otherwise they may have had to face the scorn of Ann Robinson. This is from the point of view that ME failed to deliver on what it said on the tin. Ronseal it isn't. Saying consumer rights (or whiney entitlement as they call it) should be ignored is very dangerous ground for the gaming media to tread.
From a creative point of view I think developers should do what they want. Feedback should be reserved for other aspects like UI design or controls i.e. user interaction. I really wish Nintendo gave two fingers to IGN for their anti Tingle campaign.
From a creative point of view I think developers should do what they want. Feedback should be reserved for other aspects like UI design or controls i.e. user interaction. I really wish Nintendo gave two fingers to IGN for their anti Tingle campaign.
aliencowz7
Member
I don't think gamers have to much power, they should be able to complain however and to whomever they want. What I think is wrong is how much developers have started listening to every random joe consumer on the internet, if you read feedback and think oh hey sure that actually makes sense then fine but don't change stuff simply for the sake of appeasing people online.
Yup this, IMO devs need to shroud themselves from direct contact with their community kinda like how Blizzard has Bashiok as the community manager. That way the devs to start second guessing things and can read a constructed list of complaints as opposed to hate and whining. There is something to be said about developer freedom that allows awesome games to be made.
Bioware made Metroid Other M?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The real problem is that the 18-35 year old mainstream game buying demographic seems immature.
They're very naive about games, and buy into hyperbole and marketing campaigns.
Mass Effect 3's ending(s) are no worse than just about any "let's be epic" endings in video games. Same shit, different day. The difference in Mass Effect's case is that the player base actually bought into the claim that Mass Effect was somehow "elite" among games, when Mass Effect 1 and 2 didn't actually have storytelling that was very great, or great endings. They were built on the same cliches as most games are. Fell back on the same crutches and lame tropes. The series just dresses it up in the appearance of being intellectual.
Gamers are still "wowed" by the appearance of sophistication. That their vidya gaems have talking peoples that look like the movies is a novelty that continues to have power. With games focusing on story and competing with motion pictures more than ever, storytelling and writing that would be substandard in some super hero comic books is accepted in games because it's impressive that "what used to be 'tendo games' are now so technologically advanced.
The outcry over Mass Effect 3's ending may be a watershed moment though, in a different way. A large number of gamers might have finally figured out that they're being sold silly shit that's poorly thought out, wrapped up in production values and discreet gameplay chunks that individually might be higher quality since video games are the result of many hands, not just a single author, or a single writer and single director. (This factor also makes it more difficult to judge video games compared to other mediums.)
Their initial reaction is still immature; crying for the creators to "fix their game" when the problem runs far more deeply in the entire series, and the "fix our game" avenue also doesn't recognize that it's a systemic problem with most games, not just this one.
But, perhaps that will cause some to approach these big budget wannabe hollywood productions with a more skeptical eye the next time out.
On the subject of consumer power, many gamers seem, due perhaps to the maturity problem, to be petty about the wrong things. They'll bitch more about people buying good games that have DLC, than about mass numbers of people buying into huge franchises that actually hurt the state of gaming in bigger ways.
Of course since the economics just don't work out anyway, this is perhaps all a moot point! We'll see how much longer publishers can survive with their 50 million dollar hollywood games that have 100 million dollar ad campaigns, while the empire crumbles from the outward edges in.
They're very naive about games, and buy into hyperbole and marketing campaigns.
Mass Effect 3's ending(s) are no worse than just about any "let's be epic" endings in video games. Same shit, different day. The difference in Mass Effect's case is that the player base actually bought into the claim that Mass Effect was somehow "elite" among games, when Mass Effect 1 and 2 didn't actually have storytelling that was very great, or great endings. They were built on the same cliches as most games are. Fell back on the same crutches and lame tropes. The series just dresses it up in the appearance of being intellectual.
Gamers are still "wowed" by the appearance of sophistication. That their vidya gaems have talking peoples that look like the movies is a novelty that continues to have power. With games focusing on story and competing with motion pictures more than ever, storytelling and writing that would be substandard in some super hero comic books is accepted in games because it's impressive that "what used to be 'tendo games' are now so technologically advanced.
The outcry over Mass Effect 3's ending may be a watershed moment though, in a different way. A large number of gamers might have finally figured out that they're being sold silly shit that's poorly thought out, wrapped up in production values and discreet gameplay chunks that individually might be higher quality since video games are the result of many hands, not just a single author, or a single writer and single director. (This factor also makes it more difficult to judge video games compared to other mediums.)
Their initial reaction is still immature; crying for the creators to "fix their game" when the problem runs far more deeply in the entire series, and the "fix our game" avenue also doesn't recognize that it's a systemic problem with most games, not just this one.
But, perhaps that will cause some to approach these big budget wannabe hollywood productions with a more skeptical eye the next time out.
On the subject of consumer power, many gamers seem, due perhaps to the maturity problem, to be petty about the wrong things. They'll bitch more about people buying good games that have DLC, than about mass numbers of people buying into huge franchises that actually hurt the state of gaming in bigger ways.
Of course since the economics just don't work out anyway, this is perhaps all a moot point! We'll see how much longer publishers can survive with their 50 million dollar hollywood games that have 100 million dollar ad campaigns, while the empire crumbles from the outward edges in.
If gamer's had more power than I'd be paying $40 on new games. I don't really understand the argument he's making about ME3's ending. The fanbase is the group most likely to buy and support a company's product. I've been to the wretched hive known as Bioware Social, and the arguments about ME3's ending are mostly constructive. Why doesn't "the customer's always right" mentality apply to gaming?
Bad example, Blade Runner was the artist taking back his work from the publishers who stirred it up in the first place.
Anyway, if games truly are art the artist wouldn't listen to the critics or fans. Banksy doesn't hold a poll asking where or what he should tag next. Van Gogh wasn't even alive for people to tell him what to think of his own work. When that art is commissioned, then sure, the buyer can have a say in how it looks.
Some games are filled with artistic integrity, others are art in the same sense that graphic design is.
nckillthegrimace
Member
My game dev buddies are in trouble! Circle those wagons, everyone!
Wickerbasket
Member
That wasn't the argument at all; the person who wrote this article is a hack who's clearly only looking for page hits.
No one wanted a more pleasant ending, they just wanted an ending that was consistent with the choices we made throughout the story. There was also a lot about the ending that just plain didn't make sense.
Not once have I seen anyone complain about the ending being too bleak. I would have preferred if the game had ended at the scene with Sheperd and Anderson sitting together.
That would be right if ME3's ending wasn't objectively shit. It is shit because it build on no themes, throws out plot developments, introduces new and insulting concepts that throw out stuff learned in games 1 and 2 etc. It effectively rewrites the entire series into a worse storyline. And it is all because of Hudson and Walters.
So consumers didn't have bad expectations, it's just two imperious developers thought they could ram just any shit down our throats and were painfully wrong. And aside from BioWare fixing this, I demand their heads.
MightyHedgehog
Member
This seems to be such a silly idea. Publishers don't have to do what Bioware/EA did and I expect that most won't cave to angry fan pressure in the future, as far as complaints about quality or acceptability of content are concerned. The 'internet' is not always a good influence to allow in. Bioware/EA just fucked up and reacted because they knew they fucked up. Most anyone else would not have gone to the lengths that they have to appease what must be a relatively small group of people, considering the sales so far.
I'll agree if you allow the current fix.
ScreenSplitter
Member
*sigh*
Another idiot who hasn't played the trilogy. NOTE TO EVERYONE; if a "Pft you so entitled" article begins with "So, I haven't finished ME3 yet...", disregard it.
ME3's ending needed clarification or change. Scream artistic integrity all you like. It was awful, and I'm glad the gamers were vocal enough to change it. And no, not all of us were "crazy mouths". We were fans of Bioware's hard work with legitimate opinions, on an industry that pays attention to it's consumers.
Another idiot who hasn't played the trilogy. NOTE TO EVERYONE; if a "Pft you so entitled" article begins with "So, I haven't finished ME3 yet...", disregard it.
ME3's ending needed clarification or change. Scream artistic integrity all you like. It was awful, and I'm glad the gamers were vocal enough to change it. And no, not all of us were "crazy mouths". We were fans of Bioware's hard work with legitimate opinions, on an industry that pays attention to it's consumers.
HitCtrlAltDel
Member
The fact that he starts the argument with this statement means he doesn't fully understand why people are upset. Its not that the ending was bad that is causing everyone to go nuts, its the fact that it was nonsensical. It broke the rules of story telling by violating the rules that were set up in all 3 games. I think people could live with a bad ending that made sense, but the ending we got seemed to just come out of nowhere.
Indoctrination Theory
Huw_Dawson
Member
I ctrl-f'd for "entitlement", found it, and did not read the article. It's a meaningless buzzword used by the ignorant.
Gamers don't have enough power. Gamers are consumers and have every right to make their discontent known with a product they've spent money on and on products companies are asking them to spend money on in the future. Products many of these gaming sites have given to them. If anything their opinions are the worthless ones and the ones with to much power. Perhaps if they had to spend their own money on these products, cover their own travel expenses, etc they wouldn't be so quick to fall over themselves to defend these companies. Seriously the gaming sites are the ones defending ME3 and getting angry at the complaints more then the Bioware/EA. Then again they have defend and justify the scores they gave out when the public by large numbers take a different stance then they did. Events like this just to show that the big gaming sites are simply mouth pieces for a few companies.
fabricated backlash
Member
And no backbone to speak of. Seriously, the lack of spine is probably the biggest reason why gamers as a market are pretty much seen as a flock of mindless sheep by publishers.
Giant babies that are marketed to with the most infantile, depressingly shallow and chauvinistic marketing strategies. Every single high production game is marketed towards 14 year olds. To people who use physical atributes, consumable goods and items that hold a perceived social value, to declare themselves mature. It's the most embarassing shit to see this industry claim for artistic integrity but at the same time it treats it's customers like insecure teenagers, like adolescent boys who out of their own inexperience cling themselves to whatever promises them deliverance to adulthood.
It's basically like the Automobile industry, but at least they have the excuse of a cars practical use, while gaming is entertainment, not an integral part of human mobility in the 21st century.
So before people start to complain about the entitled gamer, maybe they should consider that games aren't a gift that consumers should be happy to even get, but just another entertainment product that competes for a consumers money.
Games aren't special, Gamers aren't special, grow a fucking spine, get your head out of the publishers PR asshole and stop blaming others, and this goes for both developers and their apologist followers.
As for Bioware, they get to complain about creative autonomy when they stop making games that are the poster child of focus group design, mixed with scams implemented by publishers like EA (online pass)
Hahaha for a second I almost believed this.
Haunted
Member
won't somebody please think of the
Ha! It's actually a very clever-meta commentary, you see.
this.
The outcry over ME3 is because expectations were built up over the course of 3 games with a continuous narrative that players felt like they had control over and in the ending all that was taken away in a poorly written piece of shit. There is no way to spin this and no way to fix it. Movies bomb all the time and people get over it, but trilogies generate a greater level of investment, people still whine about the awful Matrix sequels or the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi. People complain because they care about their investment in the story and characters. The Mass Effect 3 ending outcry would be something Bioware could be proud of, if all their customers didn't hate them for it. Gamers don't have too much power and they aren't killing the industry, though the companies that are would be happy if that was the public image.
foxdvd
Member
The ultimate power a gamer has is with their wallet. Mass Effect 3 sold more copies than 1 and 2 did during the first week...but as far as I know (which is not much lol) it dropped off a lot quicker than 2. It might sell less copies than 2 when it is all said and done. Developers can blame the internet all they want, but it works both ways. You take the good with the bad. If the game had ended on a high note, word of mouth would have been through the roof. Those that were on the fence about picking it up now or waiting for a price drop would have had a hard time waiting.
teruterubozu
Member
More Fun To Compute
Member
More stuff about the ending of Mass Effect? I guess that everyone is bored of top ten lists and this is the sort of article that gets lots of traffic on game sites these days.
Considering that the lead writers changed from ME1 to ME3, and that there was another whole plot for the reapers' intention that was left behind, it is clear that the ME saga's main plot was "stirred" by the publishers' actions too.
The Iliad and The Odyssey were composed over centuries of changes to better suit the public's tastes. Are they not art for this?
Shakespeare changed his plays to better suit the public tastes, and plays are a much closer example to what videogames are, than paintings or graffiti, as they can be changed (patched) after release with relative ease. e: and are realized by a big group of people, as opposed to one or two loners.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Because they are friends with each other. You don't bite the hand that feeds.
Omegasquash
Member
Having too much power and feeling more important than you are are two different things. It can go either way, and we've seen more examples of the latter than the former.
Neuromancer
Member
Hey isn't that our very own Shocking Alberto? Great piece.
Yeah.
Seriously. Either the author is woefully ignorant of the actual arguments or is intentionally being disingenuous to strengthen his point. There are actually some relatively well articulated critiques of the ME3 ending widely available online. It wouldn't be that hard for hi to actually figure out what the arguments are.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Before I finished Mass Effect 3 a few days ago, I was so very eager to enjoy the ending so I could say "Once again, shitty Reddit internet culture is acting entitled and whiny!" And then I finished the game, and the ending was horrible. Not only was it not satisfying but it was riddled with plot holes and made absolutely no sense.
I don't think this article has much of a point, especially when this ME3 controversy is what they're citing.
I don't think this article has much of a point, especially when this ME3 controversy is what they're citing.
Like that's what's happening in this industry.