Interfectum
Member
Seriously it's fucking annoying. Even GiantBomb hopped on that bandwagon of "people wanted a happy ending" bullshit.
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Have gamers got too much power?
- Thread starter butter_stick
- Start date
Seriously it's fucking annoying. Even GiantBomb hopped on that bandwagon of "people wanted a happy ending" bullshit.
I mentioned in another thread that an ending of the reapers winning and an alien discovering Liara's box with shepard's hologram appearing and warning the new alien races of the incoming reapers, would have been better received.
RoninChaos
Member
" the game industry would be great if it weren't for gamers!"
Christ. No. Gamers don't have too much power. If we did we wouldn't stand for revs nickel and dining us on dlc, map packs, and horse armor.
Christ. No. Gamers don't have too much power. If we did we wouldn't stand for revs nickel and dining us on dlc, map packs, and horse armor.
The guys who are supposed to be doing the criticism, but are required by business reasons to repeat the publishers' PR.
Takamura-San
Member
If you ask me I find more dangerous the precedent set by nintendo and the 3DS and the ambassador program.
Wait a few months after launch, get a price drop and free games.
Next get system pricing will be interesting.
Wait a few months after launch, get a price drop and free games.
Next get system pricing will be interesting.
Morons.
walking fiend
Member
Nintendo gamer here; hell no!!!
damn right!
Compared to journalists afraid to give a 8/10 afraid of backlash... actually, if there is one area gamers have too much power, apparently, it is gaming journalism, where reviewers are apparently hostage of fanboys.
Anyway, as always in this Mass Effect 3 debacle, I blame reviewers.
That would have been awesome. They could even legitimally keep milking the franchise.
Anyway, as always in this Mass Effect 3 debacle, I blame reviewers.
That would have been awesome. They could even legitimally keep milking the franchise.
E.A. P.R./Marketing
Neuromancer
Member
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.
Is that even proper grammar?
Bioware simply proved that they don't really know what they are doing, that they don't really believe in their game design. To me, this is very bad. Who the fuck cares if Joe Blow doesn't your ending... on the internet? Are movies ending also remade because of some fanboy crying?
Bioware should have answered just like Blizzard did about the art of Diablo3 "scandal": with a big "deal with it".
Bioware should have answered just like Blizzard did about the art of Diablo3 "scandal": with a big "deal with it".
stuminus3
Member
That stuff wouldn't exist if gamers didn't buy them.
Some people love to adopt a "fuck the haters" mentality, even if they're ignorant to the central argument.
IMHO they are afraid of anything lower to 8/10 due to the publishers' backlash more than the fanboys.
Interfectum
Member
They made a shitty ending to their game and gamers called them out on it. There is nothing "very bad" about that. Gamers are allowed to called developers out on things that are shit and it should be encouraged.
Back then, no console developer released campaign DLC unless it was an RPG. Add on the fact that people knew a Halo 3 was eventually coming, and it's not that bad. Those 3 years felt like death for story-driven folks, but the rest of us enjoyed our multiplayer. Mass Effect 3 has a whole different issue. There isn't going to be a Mass Effect 4. They are an RPG that can release campaign DLC. The worst part is how they are standing by the ending, claiming that it is their intended vison(Which a Bioware employee commented saying that the ending was Walters and Hudson only).
Is it wrong for anyone else to simply say "We fucked up"? Why does media(film, games, books) have to be any different?
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I'm tired of hearing "entitled" as an end-all-be-all argument against consumers.
Just because the demands of the buyer changes (or even grows) does not mean they're "entitled" or any of these other super-loaded words that try to paint the buyer in a negative light. It just means the nature of business transaction has changed. The seller can rise to meet those demands or continue down their own path.
Thus, we're in an industry where any time some gamers decide to make a vocal complaint about a particular point, they're "entitled." It's never whether or not the complaint is valid, which is what the focus should be. It's rather whether or not the consumer is staying in his place where he belongs, as opposed to not becoming a mindless purchaser of goods and services all for the greater good of the industry.
If the crux of your argument is whether or not someone has a right/privilege to complain, you should just stop talking. This is the core of the "entitled" argument.
Just because the demands of the buyer changes (or even grows) does not mean they're "entitled" or any of these other super-loaded words that try to paint the buyer in a negative light. It just means the nature of business transaction has changed. The seller can rise to meet those demands or continue down their own path.
Thus, we're in an industry where any time some gamers decide to make a vocal complaint about a particular point, they're "entitled." It's never whether or not the complaint is valid, which is what the focus should be. It's rather whether or not the consumer is staying in his place where he belongs, as opposed to not becoming a mindless purchaser of goods and services all for the greater good of the industry.
If the crux of your argument is whether or not someone has a right/privilege to complain, you should just stop talking. This is the core of the "entitled" argument.
The client is obviously allowed to express their opinions. I have nothing against that. I just don't really believe that devs should cave in and change something like the ending of Mass Effect 3. It's not like its an important bug or something. I also doubt that would kill their futur sales. I don't really see the incentive. Sometimes it happens that we don't like an ending. It probably happened to many movies. It's just opinions, I don't see why the writer of the movie should change its ending. Its his ending. Same goes for videogames really.
Of course not. Which only makes people who use the entitlement word look like a bunch of retarded chimps incapable of rationale thought.
Name me one other industry where consumers actively champion for others to pay retail for everything. In the entire history of mankind, has there ever been a single conversation where one guy said to another, "You know, Joe, if you really wanted to show your approval of GM, wouldn't try and haggle below sticker price. You'd pay MSRP to show your support for them."
It's only in the gaming industry where publishers can prey on the lackeys and get them to advocate against their own self-interests.
This position has always struck me as odd. Who do I have more respect for? The company that writes a terrible ending, gets called out for it, and admits their mistakes and tries to fix it or a company who writes a terrible ending, gets called out for it, and says "Deal with it" rather than acknowledge they screwed up.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Future goodwill? Bioware probably feels a little shit on by their audience after DA2 and the ME3 debacle didn't help.
Interfectum
Member
Movies get changed all the time... we just don't see it. Ratings boards, focus groups, etc all have a huge impact on how a movie plays out.
And Mass Effect 3 doesn't signal a trend. The ending was objectively a piece of shit ending. There is no getting around that. They had to address it because they know it was bad.
Well, if they make great games in the future, everything will be fine. I doubt that an ending can seal the fate of a dev. I just think the importance of this whole thing is inflated and reaching proportions that it shouldn't have reached.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
How dare people have opinions!
How dare they share these opinions!
How dare those opinions influence others!
How dare they share these opinions!
How dare those opinions influence others!
Interfectum
Member
Yeah but similar to Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3's ending has tarnished a lot of people's opinion of the series.
It's why they are doing major damage control for DA2 and why they are addressing the ME3 ending issue. They've soured a lot of goodwill from their fans over the past few years and developers like Bioware live or die by their hardcore fanbase.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Good question. Wtf is wrong with these people?
It's just that the ending was so disappointing compared to the rest of the trilogy that Bioware felt they had to make some things better if they do not want to lose all their fans for their next ME game. If they also screw up their ending DLC, its all over for them. They have a lot of pressure right now.
I pity the poor writers that have to fix the crap Mac Walters did, and the worst thing is that they have to fix this WHILE keeping the whole
Star child thing
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
The entire industry takes itself way too seriously. Consumers, developers and publishers alike. Everything is a #gamechanger, everything is monumental, everything is epic and WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING.
I blame it on the overenthusiastic press, frothing at the mouth over everything marginally better than a Petz game, and the insane hype trains that PR people start up every time something even remotely large is approaching the horizon. Expectations get blown out of proportion and emotions are magnified.
I think that the case of DA2 is simply that it didn't reach people's expectations in general. This happens to many devs (life is life). This is quite different from redoing an ending. Apparently some people care ALOT for endings. I care more about the journey I guess.
I completely agree with you.
VeryGooster
Banned
What they really should do is just end the game after
Shepard and Anderson sit down.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
It's been seven weeks since the ME3 ending, is news really this slow that they have to go back to rehashing this stuff?
Yeah, but that was the player's fault. Can't fault the developer when entitled gamers have misaligned expectations.
Next you'll tell us that there's nothing wrong with Sonic 06
Well when you spend 3 games building up to a point people kind of get their expectations up for the big payoff.
Edit:
It can be. It's their product. If the purpose is to please people and it doesn't then they're completely justified in changing it.
hmmm no, it's not my fault if you create a product that doesn't pleases me. It's obviously yours. But it's not necessarily a reason for you to change your product.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I said the same thing before I saw ME3's ending. How could ten minutes completely undermine the amazing journey I've had thus far? After having experienced it, I'm really ambivalent about the entire series, and I probably won't purchase another Mass Effect game. It's not me boycotting or anything. I've just lost interest after the ending.
You're actually right, I missed that....
The fun part is a friend did DAO and DA2 recently and well he nearly finished both and couldn't bother on the endings of both games and he didn't find them that great or even that bad.
Run of the mill would be the better description, which didn't motivate me into trying them out.
The infamous Star Wars effect!
You watch the movies, the shows, get the figurines, play the games and read the books.
then you watch the prequel trilogy and you can't even look at a rerun of the old movies anymore.
VeryGooster
Banned
Not to mention Bioware has already answered the complaints* with free DLC (which might be grounds for even more backlash for all we know) and had a presence at PAX East to address the whole controversy (which apparently did not happen). I actually looked at the date to see if it was an article from the last week of March or something.
*And they didn't have to. They could have kept going on and on with the "This is what we believed in, what we intended, we had the best intentions" PR fluff, but the hilarious thing is that the 'press' were only slightly disappointed with Bioware in that respect and then proceeded to thrash and blame their audience for it.
How can you guys have missed this Thread?
I didn't miss it, it was even a great source of amusement to me!
My mind was just elsewhere
Good grief. Is there any other industry out there that insults and hates their consumers more than the gaming industry? I would even go so far as to say an active campaign or war on gamers even? This is why at this point i'm just building a backlog to sustain me and hoping for a glorious industry crash to burn all of this to the ground so it can start over.
The industry has no one to blame but themselves. They strived for years to get into the gaming community. To become their buddies and friends and make the whole industry way to personal. It's a two way street though and now they are forced to listen to criticisms along with all the praise and hype they want to hear. Now they are leveraging their tools (journalists, fanboys, community managers, developers) to try to stymie those critics and discredit them with insults and turning fellow gamers against each other with all this "entitlement" and supporting used is killing developers shit.
I gotta admit though, i'm seeing more of this in other industries but just not like the gaming industry. It used to be simple, consumers have all the power. Why? Because their the ones buying the stuff, they are the ultimate boss of a company. That dynamic has really changed all over though with peoples almost scary integration with consumerism. Like an addiction needing more and more stuff. Anyways consumers still have some power and when they show it like this, in something as simple as a critique of a games ending you get this backlash.
Moral of the story, be good little consumers, buy your 8/10 games new and shut up and love them. Oh and play the goddamn multiplayer and buy the dlc, now thats a good sheep.
The industry has no one to blame but themselves. They strived for years to get into the gaming community. To become their buddies and friends and make the whole industry way to personal. It's a two way street though and now they are forced to listen to criticisms along with all the praise and hype they want to hear. Now they are leveraging their tools (journalists, fanboys, community managers, developers) to try to stymie those critics and discredit them with insults and turning fellow gamers against each other with all this "entitlement" and supporting used is killing developers shit.
I gotta admit though, i'm seeing more of this in other industries but just not like the gaming industry. It used to be simple, consumers have all the power. Why? Because their the ones buying the stuff, they are the ultimate boss of a company. That dynamic has really changed all over though with peoples almost scary integration with consumerism. Like an addiction needing more and more stuff. Anyways consumers still have some power and when they show it like this, in something as simple as a critique of a games ending you get this backlash.
Moral of the story, be good little consumers, buy your 8/10 games new and shut up and love them. Oh and play the goddamn multiplayer and buy the dlc, now thats a good sheep.
Interfectum
Member
Again you are trying to broaden this to something industry wide or what gamers care for.
This is very specific to Mass Effect. In a series defined by choices they decided to end it with three near identical endings that leaves everything open for paid DLC. It's lazy, it's greedy and it doesn't match what the series has done in the past.
Interfectum
Member
Yup. I talked to people who planned on playing through ME1-3 so they could tweak their story even better that said they completely bailed on the idea after watching the ending. Why bother when you'll just be presented with the same three near-identical choices?