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Reverse racial discrimination - paging Lawyer-GAF

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D

DigitalDevil

Member
So.....

I work for a relatively large company.

I am a mid level manager, and Caucasian.

I've always been a performer, never been written up, even earned an award in January for being the top performing manager in the state last year.

That's being said, they closed my branch at the end of the 2011 and moved me into a larger facility in the same capacity. There are three managers in this branch with the same title.

Two weeks ago, I was demoted a step down the management lines due to a "re-structuring". One of the other managers in my office was unaffected, the other moved to another location in the same capacity. They made it clear that I wasn't being demoted for performance reasons, but rather budgetary ones.

My problem is this, the manager that moved, a black man, WAS underperforming. His numberes weren't even approaching what they should have been, and yet, his job is secure. So I have to ask.... Why me? Highest performing manager in the region last year, consistent performer year after year in profit and expense control, well liked throughout my area.

I know it isn't appropriate to jump to the "race card", especially being a caucasian man, but this individual has supposedly pulled it out in the past and regularly makes comments about "that's because I'm black, isn't it?"

Seeing as how our company isn't the best on documenting performance related issues, I'm just wondering; was the decision to demote me versus this other guy based, at least partially, on the lessened potential of a legal/human resource reaction? If so, can I do anything about it?

And even if I can, SHOULD I? It would certainly mean the end of my career with this company as I would be committing political suicide, but my wife wants me to quit anyway.

What say you?
 
A

andycapps

Member
There is no such thing as reverse racial discrimination. It's either racial discrimination or it's not.

This thread is a trap, but your idea is one possible scenario. Another is that you got paid more than him, so for them to reduce you in title/pay they're saving money.
 
C

CFMOORE!

Member
my guess is it is just office politics having little relation to race. be thankful they didn't fire you. a shitty situation but you still have the job.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Seeing as how our company isn't the best on documenting performance related issues, I'm just wondering; was the decision to demote me versus this other guy based, at least partially, on the lessened potential of a legal/human resource reaction? If so, can I do anything about it?
Click to expand...
How is anyone in this thread going to be able to answer this question. Lawyer or not.
 
A

Awesome

Banned
You are better off just letting it go until you can find a better place to work, it sucks but this would be a hard one to prove.
 
C

cutmeamango

Banned
This is you in your thread OP

cabra-deixada-para-alimentar-o-t-rex.jpg
Click to expand...

Hope you manage to handle your job problems
 
K

Kad5

Member
It's sort of hard to determine if it's reverse discrimination. Plenty of factors could have come into play. If you feel like you have a case you can talk to a lawyer if you like but I wouldn't think it would go very far so it might actually be a waste of time.
 
Q

q_q

Member
It could have been that you made more money than him or it could also be that he has some connections higher up that you're not aware of. A lot of the time it's not what you know but who you know.
 
F

forrest

formerly nacire
Find new employment first. Then inform your bosses that you disagree with the demotion given your consistent past performance and that you'll unfortunately have to take your talents elsewhere. Tell them it's been a pleasure and you wish them the best in the future. Then drop the mic on the floor and walk out.
 
L

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
Have you asked HR at all why you were the one who took the demotion? They might be able to provide some insight.
 
D

DigitalDevil

Member
andycapps said:
There is no such thing as reverse racial discrimination. It's either racial discrimination or it's not.

This thread is a trap, but your idea is one possible scenario. Another is that you got paid more than him, so for them to reduce you in title/pay they're saving money.
Click to expand...

He actually made slightly more, and my pay was not affected by the demotion, I'm assuming to pacify me. And I didn't mean to imply anything by stating REVERSE discrimination. I'm just assuming that most racial discrimination cases aren't instigated by a Caucasian.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Um, why not just ask HR why you got screwed and the other guy didn't rather than assuming it's about race.

I'm always really surprised how hesitant people are to ask basic questions that no reasonable manager is going to be offended by. "Hey Bob, I was just curious: Why did you move Tony and demote me? I'd like to know for my own future benefit so I can avoid this type of thing in the future."
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
DigitalDevil said:
He actually made slightly more, and my pay was not affected by the demotion, I'm assuming to pacify me. And I didn't mean to imply anything by stating REVERSE discrimination. I'm just assuming that most racial discrimination cases aren't instigated by a Caucasian.
Click to expand...

What about seniority?
 
D

DigitalDevil

Member
brucewaynegretzky said:
Um, why not just ask HR why you got screwed and the other guy didn't rather than assuming it's about race.

I'm always really surprised how hesitant people are to ask basic questions that no reasonable manager is going to be offended by. "Hey Bob, I was just curious: Why did you move Tony and demote me? I'd like to know for my own future benefit so I can avoid this type of thing in the future."
Click to expand...

Here's why this doesn't apply to my situation. Besides, a lot of these thoughts didn't come until later. The actual meeting caught me so off guard I was too busy being shocked and infuriated to raise these points.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
DigitalDevil said:
Here's why this doesn't apply to my situation. Besides, a lot of these thoughts didn't come until later. The actual meeting caught me so off guard I was too busy being shocked and infuriated to raise these points.
Click to expand...

If you don't have a reasonable manager why do you think the choice of promotion would be reasonable. Seems in line. No?


DigitalDevil said:
He has been with the company longer, but there were other managers in my region that weren't affected and have been with us less time. I don't think seniority was even considered.
Click to expand...
ok
 
C

ChiTownBuffalo

Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
DigitalDevil said:
He has been with the company longer, but there were other managers in my region that weren't affected and have been with us less time. I don't think seniority was even considered.
Click to expand...

Well 1,. Sounds like a seniority issue.

And 2. If you can demonstrate an environment at work hostile to white men, and a track record of white men being passed up for promotions, raises, etc. I will take your case.
 
A

andycapps

Member
DigitalDevil said:
He actually made slightly more, and my pay was not affected by the demotion, I'm assuming to pacify me. And I didn't mean to imply anything by stating REVERSE discrimination. I'm just assuming that most racial discrimination cases aren't instigated by a Caucasian.
Click to expand...

None of us can say then. I guess they had to pick somebody, maybe you were the guy. Only thing I could suggest would be to ask them why you got demoted and not him.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
DigitalDevil said:
He was moved to the same location as me, at the same time.
Click to expand...

Maybe they just liked him better. There are a whole list of things that it could be OTHER than race. Like has been said before, go ask why. Maybe he was more willing to take risks than you, no one is going to know until you ask.
 
D

DigitalDevil

Member
MThanded said:
If you don't have a reasonable manager why do you think the choice of promotion would be reasonable. Seems in line. No?



ok
Click to expand...

No, every location in my area was affected in some way. People moved around, demoted, laid off, all for "budgetary reasons". There are managers in affected locations that were NOT affected in any way that have been with the company less time than I have. So again, I don't think seniority was considered.
 
P

-PXG-

Member
God damnit

There is no such thing as reverse racism. It doesn't matter initiating it or who the victim is. Racism is racism. Period.

FUCK!
 
A

Aizu_Itsuko

Member
As said above, there's no such thing as "reverse racial discrimination".

As for the rest of your story, we don't know a thing about what happened other than what you just told us (your version), so we can't answer your question. There might have been other reasons involved in this decision and right now you seem to be pretty pissed off at not getting what you thought you deserved. Even if you have actually been discriminated, you are most likely not going to get anywhere with all this.

Regardless of everything else, If you think the decision was unfair based on your personal merits, secure a better job and move on. Just don't get bitter as it would only lead to problems.
 
D

DigitalDevil

Member
Hollywood Duo said:
Maybe you just aren't as good as you think you are.
Click to expand...

Our performance is based on easily tracked metrics. When you look at my performance versus this other guy's, I blow him out of the water. I didn't beat out every other manager in the state last year because I'm "not as good as I think I am". And I'm not saying I'm Superman, just that the move doesn't make sense to me, and I'm wondering more and more about whether the decision was a fair one.
 
D

Dorrin

Member
Honestly OP it won't matter either way, you will never be able to prove it. If you push the issue and especially if you go to HR your days will be numbered. Does this type of thing happen? Yes it does. My buddy was in a team of three, two whites and one asian. The manager was white and was told during his own performance review they were not happy with the diversity in his team. He asked all three team members off the record to post out to new jobs. They were replaced by two white women and one black woman.

Things like this happen, maybe the upper level manager making the decisions just doesn't like you. I was recently passed up for a position(white guy in my 30s) for a white lady in her 50s. I didn't know her at the time but on paper I had her beat, later on I came to realize she was clueless... no idea how she got it.

You will never have the whole story, don't get bitter about it. You got a title demotion but your money stayed the same just roll with it if you still like the work.
 
A

akira28

Member
Maybe if you cared about your appearance more? Maybe shorter sleeves on your shirt, maybe unbuttoned a bit so we can see more of your neckline. It makes a difference. And stop acting so stuck up.
 
D

DigitalDevil

Member
I was hoping that you guys would talk me off a cliff, and you did. I need to find a new job, because while I love this company, it doesn't seem to be a mutually beneficial relationship any longer. I just get fired up about it every time somebody says to me "I can't believe they demoted you instead of him!"

Thanks, and sorry again about the reverse racial comment. I didn't mean anything by it.
 
D

Drazgul

Member
Isn't moving on an option? If the company you currently work for has direct competition, they'd no doubt be very interested in you given your track record.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
DigitalDevil said:
Here's why this doesn't apply to my situation. Besides, a lot of these thoughts didn't come until later. The actual meeting caught me so off guard I was too busy being shocked and infuriated to raise these points.
Click to expand...

Wait, you're saying your manager is unreasonable, but you don't understand why they made a choice that seems unreasonable to you?

There's really nowhere near enough information to judge the situation -- office politics is always a minefield -- but if you don't think much of your manager, that can often be a factor in not getting promotions.

If your numbers are as good as you say, and I have no reason to doubt they are, you should jump ship. It's the new economy -- people rarely get promoted from inside any more. With your performance record you should be able to get a job paying the same or more somewhere else.
 
S

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Sounds like a good fanfic off of a cereal box, mine's better. ToocansSam is species confused, acts like a human, but does a great job at viral marketing. Are you going to pull the race card on him? Just because he spread that avian flu?
 
D

DigitalDevil

Member
Drazgul said:
Isn't moving on an option? If the company you currently work for has direct competition, they'd no doubt be very interested in you given your track record.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is, and I'm going to pursue that. I have skillsets that competitors in my field would be attracted to, or at least I hope so. I'm going to brush up my resume, methinks.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
Seems like a lot of variables here man. Not really a good look to assume its racism instead of stuff like seniority or something else. You should probably ask why you were chosen before half jumping to that conclusion. The whole "why me and not that guy instead" happens everywhere and all the time.

The Faceless Master said:
they might think you're racist if you ask questions about why the black guy didn't get demoted and you did...
Click to expand...

They probably would, and that doesn't shock me, its a pretty wild conclusion to jump to when he has as little answers as he does. He seemingly hasn't even asked anyone up the chain about why he was chosen over others at all.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Cipherr said:
Seems like a lot of variables here man. Not really a good look to assume its racism instead of stuff like seniority or something else. You should probably ask why you were chosen before half jumping to that conclusion. The whole "why me and not that guy instead" happens everywhere and all the time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, here's the other thing -- even if we assume for the sake of argument that it was "reverse racism," if you press them on it, they can always say it was because of seniority in this case, and there's no way for you to prove otherwise.
 
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