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Dead State combat demo
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exmachina64
Banned
Cool, glad to see some progress. I'll edit this post with my opinion after I watch it.
The most obvious thing based on the video that the game is missing is a cone of vision and fog of war.
Things just popping into existence while in reality they would be visible is easier to accept for me when the gameplay mechanics like vision are transparent to the player.
Things just popping into existence while in reality they would be visible is easier to accept for me when the gameplay mechanics like vision are transparent to the player.
yes, it should be fixed.
Phonomezer
Banned
A lot of great ideas but a little dull.
Looked really rough. I hope theres fog of war in the final game since its quite distracting the way zombies just pop up. The AI also seemed notably bad.
I'm not sure this is all coming together into the title the vision "deserves". I've been following this for years on their forums :/
I'm not sure this is all coming together into the title the vision "deserves". I've been following this for years on their forums :/
tell me please how zombie AI can be "bad" and how can you judge human's AI if she didn't have a chance to make a single shot?
Walking right past a zombie, same zombie been around the corner only a couple feet away not joining in combat etc.
I don't see it. Can you point out what moment did you mean? All zombies were pretty far away and as the survivors used melee weapons z's weren't supposed to hear them until they are really close.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I don't see it. Can you point out what moment did you mean? All zombies were pretty far away and as the survivors used melee weapons z's weren't supposed to hear them until they are really close."
There is a point in the demo where they run right past a zombie and it doesn't react to them. At about 4:40.
There is a point in the demo where they run right past a zombie and it doesn't react to them. At about 4:40.
Noisepurge
Member
i still get fooled by this as being a Dead Nation sequel 
Sure as hell hope the demo isn't representative of combat balance in any way whatsoever. It takes a ton of hits to kill an enemy, and the party members seem to have tons of health too. It's not very fun watching characters stand right next to each other and just trade blows for 3-4 turns...
Yeah, I agree. Other than that and the pathfinding slowdown It looks good to me, and like I expected.
However, the major point for me with this game are the shelter mechanics and interactions with the other survivors. I'm looking forward to seeing more on that front.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Looks okay but like a chore to navigate, NWN 2 style camera. Is there optional follow the character camera? Since it didn't seem like you control the second character, Fallout style. Also things like having to equip the lockpick in a slot then use it on the door. Why not have the inventory not cover the game view so you can click on the lockpick then the door directly. Or just right click the door then click unlock and you either use a key or a lockpick automatically if you have them.
alexandros
Banned
Aside from the issues with the lack of fog of war and vision cones, it's looking pretty good. In all honesty I'm just happy that I'll get to play turn-based RPGs again
Aside from the issues with the lack of fog of war and vision cones, it's looking pretty good. In all honesty I'm just happy that I'll get to play turn-based RPGs again
I used to hate turn-based RPGs until I've replayed my first RPG - Fallout 1-2 a year ago or so and played X-Com after that.
Now we have coming in the next 2 years:
-Underrail
-Age of Decadence
-Shadowrun
-Wasteland II
-Dead State
-Divinity: Original Sin.
Also similar:
-Project Eternity
-Torment
We'll be overwhelmed and spoiled.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Combat not giving experience is cool and that with the decibelmeter mechanic gives more importance to keeping quiet and try to pass through zombies. At the 4:40 moment I think that zombie noticed the noise from taking out the first zombie and was moving to that area but didn't activate combat because the player character was running through him to the other backroom. I think with the fog of war enabled that wouldn't appear so lame. The player surprised the zombie running through him. I think the alternative in that situation, the zombie cancelling the player movement to initiate combat would be worse.
I don't know about that, he started the video with a warning that you should be ready for whatever is around the corner so surprise combat with zombies should be fine. I can forgive the AI not being ready at this point though.
Combat itself didn't look very interesting, but he highlighted the actual dangers around it (and the actual objective, which isn't killing stuff, but getting rid of obstacles) quite well. It does seem like you might be overrun very quickly if you don't plan your moves and have to use guns in panic and whatnot which is great and could be very tense.
In the end, I'm interested in this game not for killing stuff, but for all the other stuff - especially human interactions, since Mitsoda has written some awesome characters before and this seems to be the real meat of the game. This video didn't show much of that, but hints at the development resources being put in the right places.
Edit: Since the notes don't mention it, I assume that maps are hand crafted and not randomised? I would think that randomising layouts and loot would do a lot for a zombie game so that's a bit of a shame for replay value, especially since buildings and everything is modular.
read OP
Minsc
Gold Member
It looks ok, for what it is (not a real demo). I liked some aspects (tone of the graphics seemed in a good spot, not cel shaded or anything), and others not so much (a fog of war type system would be nice to show line of sight - but then again, X-COM didn't have that, stuff just popped up there and it was fine), but it was just a demo to show off different aspects of combat more than an actual demo of combat I think.
HP needs to be balanced badly I agree. I'm actually kinda fond of Kirkman's rules, you die or get amputated from a single hit and you kill zombies in one hit too, more or less. Keeps the combat more interesting. Would have liked to see physical damage (the machete taking off limbs/heads a fallout type targeting system would be great). Then all the weapons are similar in that they kill in one hit when targeted to the head, but just carry different +s/-s such as speed, range and the players own skill level.
The noise system is nice, I just hope the gameplay moves up to the same level as the writing will likely be down the road.
It would have been more effective to see the various aspects in multiple takes with a lot of death/game overs to emphasis the difficulty and danger of combat. I didn't watch the whole video, skimmed over the last few minutes, but combat didn't seem to carry much risk from the video, which again I guess was intentional. Good to see something, but looks like there's a lot more to do before I see a video that's really what I hoped for.
HP needs to be balanced badly I agree. I'm actually kinda fond of Kirkman's rules, you die or get amputated from a single hit and you kill zombies in one hit too, more or less. Keeps the combat more interesting. Would have liked to see physical damage (the machete taking off limbs/heads a fallout type targeting system would be great). Then all the weapons are similar in that they kill in one hit when targeted to the head, but just carry different +s/-s such as speed, range and the players own skill level.
The noise system is nice, I just hope the gameplay moves up to the same level as the writing will likely be down the road.
It would have been more effective to see the various aspects in multiple takes with a lot of death/game overs to emphasis the difficulty and danger of combat. I didn't watch the whole video, skimmed over the last few minutes, but combat didn't seem to carry much risk from the video, which again I guess was intentional. Good to see something, but looks like there's a lot more to do before I see a video that's really what I hoped for.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
About danger, the last bit of the video shows what would have happened if guns were used instead of melee. Basically a bunch of zombies came shambling in and then the video ended.
Agree with everything you said though.
Ingueferroque
Banned
The engine looks fantastic, but when someone gets hit by a zombie shouldn't they get infected? Kind of strange, though not really something they can easily solve I guess.
How does it look cheap? Are you referring to the slightly generic looking character models?
How does it look cheap? Are you referring to the slightly generic looking character models?
Flat terrain, poor models, poor animations, poor textures, few graphical effects ... It definitely looks cheap. Which it is, it raised a sixth of Shadowruns funding and they are presumably spending their resources on creating an underlying game instead of visuals. One of their stretch goals included creating more attack animations, lol.
Bear in mind that Double Bear isn't a developer team such as Inxile and (I assume) Hairbrained Schemes, afaik it's Annie and Brian with additional support of ex-modders.
Anyway, reading their forums it seems like they're putting in fog of war for a later build.
I take that comment of danger around the corner more of a warning to the movement phase of the player. You have to be careful and deliberate on where you will want your character to move to. If the end of the movement phase takes you within range of a Zombie vision cone then you will get attacked. While moving there's no canceling of the movement phase. At least that's what it seems watching this video. And again, I prefer it to be that way.
Sentenza
Member
It doesn't look any different from what I expected.
Maybe a bit better in some aspects (scenario) and a bit worse in others (character models and animations), but roughly on part with my prediction.
That said, the feature I liked the least in this demo is the goddamn free camera.
It looks like the one in Age of Decadence, which isn't good.
They should seriously consider the idea to lock the camera to a vertical axis (the center of the screen, the main character, whatever...) to allow smooth rotation around it. At least as an option.
Maybe a bit better in some aspects (scenario) and a bit worse in others (character models and animations), but roughly on part with my prediction.
That said, the feature I liked the least in this demo is the goddamn free camera.
It looks like the one in Age of Decadence, which isn't good.
They should seriously consider the idea to lock the camera to a vertical axis (the center of the screen, the main character, whatever...) to allow smooth rotation around it. At least as an option.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Yeah it does look how I expected it to apart from the damage sponge stuff.
KaiserBecks
Member
Play Jagged Alliance 2. Play it now!
Do you mean in combat? I was thinking specifically of the moment when the characters pass a zombie by a foot or so without it noticing them, I thought you meant that you didn't like for it to initiate combat at that point, sorry.
I'm more bothered by being able to rotate the camera than being able to move it. Few "isometric" games should need that freedom, it just makes the control more messy. Just being able to move it a bit and zoom in and out is enough for me.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Listen to this man.
I'm tired of CRPG developers ignoring Jagged Alliance 2, when I saw this Dead State demonstration the first thing that came to mind was.. could I climb on those roofs? Could I breach walls with C4?
We already told him to, this is what he said:
Hell yeah!
I have both JA2 and Silent Storm but I'm hopping between Planescape:Torment, System Shock 2, Dishonored and Mark of the Ninja now, so everything is in due time.
With that said I personally prefer not fixed camera, but I respect the choice of devs if they decide to implement one. I feel limited in PS:T because I want to study all these beautiful locations from different angles. All 3D games in the genre let you rotate the camera. I can't recall any exceptions.
With that said I personally prefer not fixed camera, but I respect the choice of devs if they decide to implement one. I feel limited in PS:T because I want to study all these beautiful locations from different angles. All 3D games in the genre let you rotate the camera. I can't recall any exceptions.
The combat seems reminds me a bit like Fallout 1 or 2. That's neither a great or bad thing right now. Keep in mind that these guys only raised 332K which is roughly 1/6 of the Shadowrun Kickstarter and 1/10th of the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter. Based on that I think what we are seeing is acceptable.
Like most I'd like to see the combat be a bit more devastating.
Like most I'd like to see the combat be a bit more devastating.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Looks really good for where they're at. I am loving the aspect of just going around and scrounging up supplies and the decibel sound meter at the top is brilliant. Definitely will make things much more tense and cause you to think about what you're doing in combat.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Would be nice if the combat was a little quicker and maybe more reactive. Just standing in one spot and swinging at somebody just ends up looking a bit goofy and kind of takes some of the tension out of it. And a fog of war type system or some kind of visual representation of line of sight/vision cones would be nice.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Would be nice if the combat was a little quicker and maybe more reactive. Just standing in one spot and swinging at somebody just ends up looking a bit goofy and kind of takes some of the tension out of it. And a fog of war type system or some kind of visual representation of line of sight/vision cones would be nice.
hell yeah at pulling out quotes and not reading that very thread:
I still won't even bother with JA1.
Still stings me that they made so little compared to just about all of the other big crpg kickstarters. I would take this game idea over all of the others if I could only have one (and that's what they all still are right now, ideas and promises). That being said I'm glad they're not making combat the focus. I'll be trying to avoid it as much as possible like I would in a real zombie apocalypse and just scavenge for supplies.
To me the real game is going to be what goes on back at the base I create. At least going off what they said during their kickstarter.
What's SS2?
Silent Storm 2
I was just pulling your leg, no ill was intended.