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So how do you fix Gran Turismo?

H

HueyFreeman

Banned
Fired up GT6 again after taking a break since it's launch... and it remains an absolutely brilliant game, better the GT5 in almost every way. The fact remains though, this series needs to take a good long look at it's last two (three really) entries and figure out where it's going

Here are my main suggestions:

1. An even quality bar - the fact that there exists a developer who'd allow there to be two tiers of cars in their driving game still kind of staggers me, but the fact that they'd do it with tracks staggers me even more. No two ways about it: I don't drive standards, because I want a cockpit view (Polyphony's solution to that is even more embarassing.) What's more, the presence of a godly looking track like Spa Francorchamps in the same game as what's become of Trial Mountain is just sad. Polyphony needs to just set it out at the beginning for the next entry: all components of the game get the same amount of dev time. That might mean that certain things are slightly less incredible, but seriously... how does this even need to be said?

2. Driving + racing simulator. I love GT's focus on driving mechanics above all else. It feels like no other game, and no other game even approaches it's physics model. But I think we need to start making it feel like a racing game as well - given that's almost exclusively what you do in it, as opposed to a "driving around opponents" game. The AI should feel like a fight, not an obstacle. This has been an ongoing joke with the series, but it's not really funny anymore.

3. ... Kaz? Sad as it is to say, despite the fact that Kaz has created what is likely the most incredible driving series ever... he probably needs to either slide over and let some other hands do some work or leave altogether. The intro to the last two games are a perfect illustration of who Kaz is - a bit of a madman, a lot of savante. He's a genius, but he has a bit of Kutaragi destructiveness in him. I'm not saying the series should become Westernized, or that he should even hand over the reigns - but the team could certainly benefit from some new thinking.

I love celebrating this series, but I think a clear message was sent to Polyphony with the GT6 sales data, and it wasn't just cuz a new generation had come (there's still a ungodly amount of PS3s out there, and not that many PS4s by comparison): people were alienated by the increasing eccentricities of the series, and some shit's gotta change.

Thoughts?
 
U

UpsideDownAce

Member
The sounds are my main complaint of gt6. And the game needs more races that start from the starting line and less rolling starts.
 
P

Pierre Levegh

Member
Engine sounds. Next go round this needs to change or I am out. I should be able to tell the difference between a I6, V8, or V12 but just the sound it makes. The anemic sounds in place now really take you out of the game.

Keep the cheesy smooth jazz in menu screens, etc. I really dig it.
 
I

injurai

Banned
I'm sort of tired of races where I get out in front and nothing touches me the whole race.

Anymore I only tune my car so I can easily get into third place, and I try to take the next two places on skill. But after a while you realize that the numbers just won't let you win, and I inevitably tune to win. Getting sick of configuring everything just so I can have some fun.

The whole process of buying that shit Skyline and using that through your first dozen races just doesn't exist like it did in GT2, so they really need to figure out how entering your own cars into races can still be balanced.
 
J

javac

Member
I thought they took pride in the audio presentation and whatnot? Is GT6 bad in this regard or is this a long running issue?
 
P

Prototype

Member
Shamelessly rip off all the competition.

Included every feature they have-- Rewind button, livery editor, fun-non serious game types, engine sounds need to be "sexed up" more (Kaz's words) because they still aren't very sexy at all, engine swaps, and full car customization. Even the random track feature was cool in Grid 2 where the track will change each time you race it. edit: It feels like the series is stuck in the 90s, it's funny this thread came up, I traded this game in about a week ago towards DS2.
 
E

EmptySpace

Banned
nah, all it has to do is improve upon its model. this isn't the 1950s, why do people still associate movies and games with that one person? that music isn't only composed by one person, that movie wasn't just written by that one person, at the same time that game doesn't rely upon just one person. everything today is a collaborative effort because everything is much more complicated, unlike before where 2-3 people can make a mortal kombat or spyro the dragon.

i am fine with the racing. i do not want to video game-ify it. i know this is a video game, but the people who complain about it being "boring, stoic, not a video game" are the same people who will play it for a week and do a review of it. just like how you don't want the flight simulator series to be game-ified. the fun is in the driving and the racing i.e. the gameplay.

the standard v premium complaints have always been ridiculous at best. people want all 1200+ cars to be premiums are just asking for the impossible given the content of the game. there are far more things to work on than what a car looks like. i'd rather have them make a new game mode, include a new feature, fix a ton ton ton of things than re-model 1200 cars.
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
How do you fix it?

Yeah I had to read that a couple of times. Title is hyperbole. The game isn't broken. The game isn't bad. It just has a few flaws. GT 5 and 6 are arguably the best racers of the last gen.

My only issue with the series is the sound.
 
S

SparkTR

Member
Overhaul sounds and revamp the campaign mode. I didn't have a much fun progressing and collecting cars in GT5 compared GT2, it felt like more of a grind.

HueyFreeman said:
I love GT's focus on driving mechanics above all else. It feels like no other game, and no other game even approaches it's physics model.
Click to expand...

If this is their focus then they should also focus on this more. Various PC simulators have it beat not only in a realistic physics model, but also in how the FFB on the wheel feels when driving. GT still has a while to go.
 
D

DrGonzo615

Banned
-The car list is downright criminal with how many omissions are in there. Im sorry Kaz but there is too much junk in the game that nobody wants to use.

-good god the audio! Please use recordings that sound like they were taken with something a bit more hi-fi than a friggin talkman.
 
G

GalacticaN7

Banned
I think the game is fine. They improve the physics every time they release and even patch improvements every so often. Nobody this past gen supported their title as much as Polyphony supported GT5.

That said, I feel they need to make the presentation better....and I hate saying that because I find their layout perfectly fine. But reviewers only get a small amount of time to review games, and I find it difficult to believe reviewers are putting in the amount of time needed to correctly judge the game. Gran Turismo is a slow starting title, where it takes time to earn your way to the finer cars, it's not easy and takes some grinding (which I love). They play Forza and it's such a n00b accessible game, where GT5 more or less caters to the people who already know what they are going for with the series......so they give Forza the better scores (even though I think they are inferior products).

So yeah, I guess if they dumbed down the game a tad making it more accessible to the tweens, then that would make it more marketable (even though it's a huge seller to the established users).
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
PS4 should hopefully be able to help fix some of the problems it has ( sound , UI , etc etc ) and also drop all the ps2 looking content .
 
Raonak

Raonak

Banned
psudeo reboot it premium cars/tracks only.
play up the pokemon style car collection aspect.
PS4/Vita
 
D

dentoomw

Member
- Update sounds to 2014 standards

- Trim down the car list. Too many dumb inclusions that no one wants to drive or are far too similar to others to make a real difference

- Add damage models. Not asking for Burnout-esque damage models but I still find it ridiculous that I can ram myself into a barricade, get a dull "thud" and drive off like nothing happened
 
M

MaDKaT

Member
Put it on the PS4, update the 22B Impreza(all suby's), craft a proper campaign mode, fix the clutch pedal issue, update all sounds, add a DIY vision GT mode where we can design our own concept cars, add a proper bonnet cam to all cars, and damnit!, make a tourist trophy dlc package.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
They need gameplay designers.

PD seems full of modellers and tech people but is nearly devoid of game designers.

GT's career mode is the career mode counterpart of "Programmer Art"
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
My main desire for GT is for there to be only one of them per gen. Release it 3 years or so into the console's life so they have plenty of time to take advantage of it, then support that with patches and DLC for a couple years. It's basically the blueprint of a perfect game that is marred only by development issues. GT6 had absolutely no allure because from a consumer angle it looked like it should have been an expansion pack. Tbh I forgot it even existed, and it just came out recently.
 
S

Sipheren

Banned
HueyFreeman said:
Text
Click to expand...

GT is an awesome series, I have loved it up until 5 where it just has become stale. I don't know how you figure 6 is better than 5 in every aspect, I find it to have a poor frame rate and nothing at all new.

The physics aren't that great either, have a go at iRacing and you will see what I mean, even just on consoles, Forza 5 has come a long way in that department, GT really needs to lift its game.

My issues with GT are:

Sounds: Stupid thud noises when I hit something, engines sound unrealistic and the tyre screech is the same sound from GT2.

Damage: Doesn't really exist.

Standard Cars/Tracks: Get rid of them.

AI: Is useless, drones there for no reason.


I am hoping for big things with GT7, the visual look should be easily able to compete with Forza and I expect it to still have day/night and weather.

As it stands, Forza has the crown for console racing sims, this is crazy, GT was the one to beat, they need to take it to Forza.
 
E

EmptySpace

Banned
dentoomw said:
- Add damage models. Not asking for Burnout-esque damage models but I still find it ridiculous that I can ram myself into a barricade, get a dull "thud" and drive off like nothing happened
Click to expand...

kaz already said they don't want to completely render the car useless.

also, there is mechanical damage in both gt5 and gt6. it's slower to accumulate than real life, but it's there. going back to the earlier point, they do not want it to be a game over screen once you crash.
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
Cut the standards. PS2-era models on PS4 would be inexcusable, no matter how much they spackle over the jaggies. Sure, it'll mean a drastically reduced car count to put on the back of the box, but in practice it'll just mean I won't have to sift through all the useless cars to get to the ones with cockpit views. Besides, the new Forza only has about 200ish, so PD doesn't need to be firing nukes in the car count arms race any more.

Framerate? 60. All day long, zero drops; that's the important thing. I honestly can't imagine what was going through their heads when they tried to push the resolution even further with GT6. Did they think the PS3 had got more powerful since GT5? GT on PS4 has to be 1080p60, no two ways about it.

Better opponent AI, better car sounds, as usual. Honestly, that's all I think they need. As long as they don't go backwards on the number of tracks, I think they're in a great spot. The sheer variety you get in GT6's campaign, with great new tracks popping up all the time, is wonderful.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
IISANDERII said:
Thank god that's true.
Click to expand...

Woah.


EmptySpace said:
kaz already said they don't want to completely render the car useless.
Click to expand...

Then they're gonna be behind Forza in regards to having a car limp from screwing up and hitting something at high-speed, then.

Doesn't even have to be "completely totaled" since even Forza doesn't do that, but at least SOME punishment from impacts would be nice.
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
Better looking backgrounds would be nice. Some of the stuff in GT6 like the crowd, trees, and other trackside detail looked really bad.
 
P

poopninjamvc3mk

I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
I still think it's the best sim racing game on consoles(keyword: console) but some things that definitely need improving

-Remove the cars no 1 gives an absolute shit about
-Improve the sound
-Let's get some real damage please
-Give every car a decent cockpit

Not the most important but

-improve the environment detail
 
E

EmptySpace

Banned
TheSeks said:
Woah.




Then they're gonna be behind Forza in regards to having a car limp from screwing up and hitting something at high-speed, then.

Doesn't even have to be "completely totaled" since even Forza doesn't do that, but at least SOME punishment from impacts would be nice.
Click to expand...

there is mechanical damage in gt5 and 6.
 
P

Pachinko

Member
Rebuild the entire thing from scratch. Didn't GT6 still use some PS2 assets ? Maybe it's time to just start from 0. New graphics engine, new physics engine, new track models , car models. Everything.

While they're at it , make it super easy to get into. Start the game off with a race in a super car with all assists turned on and if you complete a lap well enough, you can turn a few off and try again. Wherever you stop - that's the starting difficulty.

Don't hesitate to skimp on the number of tracks and cars out of the gate versus past installments- just make sure everything looks amazing and there is enough event variety to keep the game playable for a few months.

Have 2 kinds of DLC as well, so when the game comes out it's full price and offers just enough content to justify a 60$ purchase. The first kind of DLC would be free booster packs and modes that would come out every 3 months let's say. The second kind of DLC would be monthly car packages and track packages you could get a subscription for or buy ala cart. Plan to support the game in this way for 2 years. So every month another 6 cars get added to the game for 4.99 , every 3 months 3 (different from the pay) cars get added as well as perhaps a new track. As well, to encourage people to play with newly created resources, you'd be able to try any pay DLC pack for 24 hours for free. Just download it , give it a whirl in a test mode (perhaps limited to 1 track / time trial) and if you like it , buy it.

As well, they could add a 6 month and a 12 month update. 6 month update might add 12 cars and 3 tracks + a new mode and cost 19.99, and the 12 month update would roll the previous 11 months of content into 1 tight little package for 29.99. A yearly season pass would cost 24.99, so buying in early would cost less. Lifetime pass would be 39.99. Obviously when the annual update comes out the game could be re-released at retail and digital as a complete package for 60$ again. After the full 2 years have elapsed, you'd have a completely rebuilt game with say 24 tracks, 1000 cars and plenty of modes to mess about in. You could then have a complete package release say 6 months after that second and final annual update for 49.99 that has everything. Anyone that supported the game earlier would be rewarded with a few exclusive custom cars and paint jobs perhaps.

I would personally refrain from any micro-transactions aside from the above- none of the BS present in forza 5 where you can buy in game currency to reduce the time it takes to get the good cars. In fact to alleviate any of that entirely- make it so any car in the game could at least be driven in a time trial sampler so even those that may not be that great could at least try out a bugatti veyron or a Porsche 918 without having to buy one in game.

Above all else, make the game fun.
 
kubricks

kubricks

Member
HueyFreeman said:
Fired up GT6 again after taking a break since it's launch... and it remains an absolutely brilliant game, better the GT5 in almost every way. The fact remains though, this series needs to take a good long look at it's last two (three really) entries and figure out where it's going

Here are my main suggestions:

1. An even quality bar - the fact that there exists a developer who'd allow there to be two tiers of cars in their driving game still kind of staggers me, but the fact that they'd do it with tracks staggers me even more. No two ways about it: I don't drive standards, because I want a cockpit view (Polyphony's solution to that is even more embarassing.) What's more, the presence of a godly looking track like Spa Francorchamps in the same game as what's become of Trial Mountain is just sad. Polyphony needs to just set it out at the beginning for the next entry: all components of the game get the same amount of dev time. That might mean that certain things are slightly less incredible, but seriously... how does this even need to be said?

2. Driving + racing simulator. I love GT's focus on driving mechanics above all else. It feels like no other game, and no other game even approaches it's physics model. But I think we need to start making it feel like a racing game as well - given that's almost exclusively what you do in it, as opposed to a "driving around opponents" game. The AI should feel like a fight, not an obstacle. This has been an ongoing joke with the series, but it's not really funny anymore.

3. ... Kaz? Sad as it is to say, despite the fact that Kaz has created what is likely the most incredible driving series ever... he probably needs to either slide over and let some other hands do some work or leave altogether. The intro to the last two games are a perfect illustration of who Kaz is - a bit of a madman, a lot of savante. He's a genius, but he has a bit of Kutaragi destructiveness in him. I'm not saying the series should become Westernized, or that he should even hand over the reigns - but the team could certainly benefit from some new thinking.

I love celebrating this series, but I think a clear message was sent to Polyphony with the GT6 sales data, and it wasn't just cuz a new generation had come (there's still a ungodly amount of PS3s out there, and not that many PS4s by comparison): people were alienated by the increasing eccentricities of the series, and some shit's gotta change.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I still think there is room to improve on the physics. The tyre traction model and the way the load transfer is not that accurate, I wish they can improve on that.

Agree with point 1, but 2 is a bit hard to implement. They need to work on how the AI reacts to player's manoeuvre, I am worry that they would take the easy way out and just give some form of rubberband mechanics.

And... give me a Vita version please lol.
 
T

Tallshortman

Member
I'd like to see them do racing leagues like DTM, GT3 racing, etc. Events are fine and all but they get stale on replays. Also yeah they should clean up some of the 40 variants of honda civics and other cars and make everyone a premium car. I don't mind if they cut back on the number of cars as long as they deliver on popular ones and some classics. Really there doesn't need to be a massive jump in graphics since if it were 1080p with some improvements here and there it would already look better than forza 5.
 
kubricks

kubricks

Member
LevityNYC said:
make it fun.
Click to expand...

Well, What do you expect from a driving simulator?
I find it fun just to recreate my car (with spec, actual setting and handling as close to the real life counterpart as possible) in the game and use it to blast around the real tracks worldwide. It never gets old.

Although I do want better tyre physics.
 
I

ItIsOkBro

Member
Agree with 1. GT3 had less cars and tracks than GT2 and it was fine. The porting of old ass assets in 5 and 6 is terrible. Standard cars are such an eyesore.

Also, analogy time: Iwata is to Nintendo as Kaz is to Gran Turismo.
 
old

old

Member
Haven't played 6, but played every gt before it.

I like racing sims with great physics and dynamic weather. But I don't need super awesome realistic graphics especially when those graphics are dull, boring, washed of color, and frankly sterile. Especially when I'm racing around with the same cars on the same tracks for the past 15 years. It's old. It's tiring. It's frankly boring. A new paint job and some better graphics aren't enough to keep me coming back. Make the graphics more attractive. Make the colors pop. Make the backgrounds seem alive. Make me believe I'm racing through a living breathing world. If that means slightly less polygons on my car's muffler then so be it.

Jazz it up by mixing real with unreal. Keep some of those iconic real cars, but throw in some fictional cars too. Surprise us with your developer's creativity. Same with tracks too. We have to have some of real staple tracks like Laguna Seca, but let's throw in a steampunk Victorian age track, or a beautiful ice castle track up in the mountains. Kart racers shouldn't have a monopoly on creativity. Taking it to an extreme, I wanna race through an elven metropolis at the base of Yggdrasil up in Asgard in my '99 Dodge Viper; and all I want to think about is corner negotiation and saving tires, not banana peel negotiation and saving my blue shell.
 
Reallink

Reallink

Member
Does anyone really care about having 500-1000 cars anymore? I mean it was novel in the PS1 days, but realistically, 98% of people probably only drive 1 or 2 dozen different cars. Cut out the bullshit and spend the bulk of the time on the things that matter like polishing the total package and experience (something that is clearly suffering as the franchise progresses). These games should not be taking 3-5 years to produce.
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
This is not going to be popular but I have just the thing (this applies to Forza and any other more sim like racer too). Make it a service.

- For $5 per month provide a constantly updated base car list and regular new tracks/courses.
- Make top end cars available for purchase either with money or ingame XP.
- Occasionally make said premium cars free for a weekend to "advertise" them.
- Allow car manufacturers to preview/focus test/market new models in the game.
- Release biannual major engine updates.
- Give offline players the option of paying $60/yr for an update disc (isn't that what sports games are anyway?).

Like sports games, racing sims are increasingly about iterating content than reinventing the wheel. It makes no sense to release them as one off packaged products when a lot of the content comes after release. These are subscription services pretending to be packaged games and its time everybody started treating them as such.
 
T

tengiants

Member
I don't really think anything needs to change. They just put the last one out at a bad time.

I do think it would be great on the PS4 with that virtual reality headset sony is working on.
 
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