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Kitase on FFVII Remake:"You must believe me when I say it would take a lot to happen"
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
Ah, FF7 with a 2xEagle filter.
encephalon
Member
No, it doesn't. Because the original game is poorly designed (visually). Instead of manipulating the game so that the SD towns could "fit" more realistic character models, it would be much more feasible to design the entire game in a cartoonish manner if you were to go with the approach that you're suggesting.
What you're suggesting isn't coming either.
it's more of a "i hope they don't find an excuse to put her in" kind of thing. do i seriously think beyond all doubt that they'd do it? probably not. but with cloud being an inspiration for her character (iirc, correct me if i'm wrong), all the dress up she can do from other ff titles (even other series), toriyama saying she can show up as cameos for other games (she already did with ffxiv)...i can just see this being kind of a wet dream for toriyama.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Oh there'd be a lot of massaging, no doubt.
It's just take nearly any background in the game from any angle, is there something fundamentally wrong about the perspective if you were to re-proportion it with realistic characters? 99% of the time, probably not. You could have a version of Kalm with larger characters and larger houses and the same overhead look. Some things might have to be reworked completely.
Or hell... keep it stylized and slightly SD. Either or.
Now I'm imagining that final shot of Aeris in the end cutscene being replaced by Lightning. Hayden Christiansen in RotJ would be child's play.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Hey back in the day, they put Cloud in everything too 
encephalon
Member
FFVII uses a distorted, cartoonish perspective for much of the game, if not the majority. Other times is uses a pseudo isometric style that, when paired with realistic characters, might look something like a late 90s WRPG.
Hey back in the day, they put Cloud in everything too
Except Cloud is actually kinda cool? Sometimes?
I freakin' love his English VA, btw. I don't know how they did it, but they stole his voice from my mind and put it in the game. Blew me away. Sephiroth's pretty good too, but Cloud is insanely perfect. Like, Steve Blum as Spike Spiegel perfect. Ridiculous.
Never gonna happen. At least not in the way people are hoping. It's doomed to failure, anyone who spends a moment to think about it can realise that.
If they change anything, they "mess with perfection" or "raped [my] childhood" (both ludicrous statements in this case.
If they do a line-for-line, mechanically-identical version with the best graphics anyone has ever seen, they'll be criticised for not changing things.
FF7 is overrated. Sure, when I got it in September '97 it blew my teenage mind. It's barely playable now. Everything it did was done better by it's prequels or sequels.
It's popularity is mainly due to it being a lot of people's first mainline Final Fantasy.
SE will just keep releasing the same game, just making it compatible with each generation of hardware, and people will buy it.
Let it be.
If they change anything, they "mess with perfection" or "raped [my] childhood" (both ludicrous statements in this case.
If they do a line-for-line, mechanically-identical version with the best graphics anyone has ever seen, they'll be criticised for not changing things.
FF7 is overrated. Sure, when I got it in September '97 it blew my teenage mind. It's barely playable now. Everything it did was done better by it's prequels or sequels.
It's popularity is mainly due to it being a lot of people's first mainline Final Fantasy.
SE will just keep releasing the same game, just making it compatible with each generation of hardware, and people will buy it.
Let it be.
People keep saying this and it will never be true. Aside from being WILDLY condescending and trying to tell people why they like a game, every FF has the chance to be a bunch of people's first FF, and none have achieved the popularity that 7 and its cast has. People with this opinion just need to get over the fact that FF7, its world, its characters, and tons of other things about it resonated with a fuckton of people and has a lasting appeal carrying it forward almost 20 years later.
A remake would be popular and would sell a lot, and people would bitch about it until we're tired of reading about it, and people would love the remake until we're tired of reading about it. That's how remakes of popular things work.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I still think you're overselling this. If you want to make a version of Kalm that is true to the original in spirit and has the same overhead perspective, but in realistic proportions, it can be done.
The only thing really isometric about it is the fact that Cloud's walking was fixed in certain odd directions. Once you remove that it's just a room with an overhead view (ie any overhead jRPG such as Bravely Default).
I believe the argument is because it sold the most, it was by definition the one that was most played first.
Surprisingly, if I search my feelings, I actually prefer Lightning in her time and place than I ever did Cloud.
Yes, if the Square Enix of now did it, it would be wrong.
But that doesn't mean it can't. Like, ever. It just requires really creatively intelligent artists and leaders working on it to do it properly. They have to take a ton of time thinking about how to present it.
"What part of this scene in FFVII was absolutely essential as it was presented to players?" is a question that would basically have to preface every element of the remake's design. Is this static camera angle from FFVII good? Do we lose the mood by changing it to a dynamic camera instead of remaining faithful? How about this other static angle over here? Was it actually sub-optimal? Do we go cinematic in this scene with a close-up, but remain traditional over here?
How about the music? That'll be a very delicate balance indeed. Where do you keep instruments from the PSX soundtrack, and where do you replace them with more complex/better quality versions? Because you have to wonder where the line is between "just emulating real instruments on a synth" and "the synth being its own instrument." Case in point, J-E-N-O-V-A. That is a song you really have to be careful with when making a new version, because it's like the original Doctor Who theme. The electronic elements were so specifically chosen, that if you take out something for the wrong reason in just the right way, you have this huge risk of collapsing the thing. Like, there are those trumpets you hear in the song, right? That's good, bring in an orchestra for that. BUT there are those super distinct and emotional electronic violins in the song that don't sound anything like traditional instruments for replacement, something that lent a unique flavor, so you keep that in.
And the graphics. What were they doing with the lego blocks? What was their aim? How about the combat models? What about the character art? Where do we again strike the balance between a more realistic look, and the stylized look that people connected to back in 97? Like, I would go for a very intricately sculpted blend between the CG models and the concept drawings that existed around that time, but that's my take and maybe a team would find an even better direction.
You have to ask a lot of questions, make a lot of careful decisions, but with the right people (who would have to have huge amounts of control over the project, a ton of confidence from higher up to take their time) I'm very confident you could pull the project off with power and taste.
It's not impossible. Just, as this time, very improbable.
Sure, but something made more people want to play FF7 than any FF before or since.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
CG graphics and that kind of design being red hot in 1997.
The game is pretty good but... so are all the FFs. I do think there is an element of "my first time....."
encephalon
Member
Alright, I'll give you that perhaps it could be done. But remaking FFVII in such a manner is something that would never enter Square's minds.It's less likely than the AAA remake.
Yeah, it's definitely one of the most perplexing design choices of the original game. "Let's make some maps isometric, but we'll change where 'up' is based on what we feel like at the time."
Condescending? I was careful to use the word *mainly*, of course there are many who started before 7 and still legitimately prefer it.
It came riding on the coat-tails of Sony's new, cool, lifestyle accessory. The PlayStation was was a world away from nintendo's kiddy box and FF7, visually was a world away from the SNES titles. It was a dazzling spectacle. Sony put a lot of money behind the marketing with tv ads and billboards showcasing the game's (admittedly) impressive CG. I honestly don't remember seeing any in-game stuff advertised, but that was par for the times.
You think these things didn't make a big difference?
These things certainly *resonated* with me enough for me to buy it, before I knew about the world or characters that much. And I can appreciate the impact it had as my first final fantasy game.
encephalon
Member
Well, it was released two years into the playstation's life (almost exactly, in NA) but it was certainly well advertised.
Make a difference? Sure.
Make the game popular, top digital sales charts on PSN and Steam, spawn sequels and prequels and requests for a remake almost two decades later. No, I don't think that's what's going on here.
Kitase has to be so sick of addressing this question.
Yeah, Cloud's a cool dude. I love that he has all these XTREEEME hobbies -- snowboarding, chocobo racing, riding motorcycles, and that he's easy going enough to go along with Aerith's mischievous schemes in Wall Market. He's a fantastic lead. Little extra character elements like that really endear him to me.
Then I picture someone like Lightning, and can't think of a single interesting facet to her character. She sure was a lousy big sister. Although I will say her role as 'savior' in LR is probably the most interesting thing she's ever done.
Yeah, Cloud's a cool dude. I love that he has all these XTREEEME hobbies -- snowboarding, chocobo racing, riding motorcycles, and that he's easy going enough to go along with Aerith's mischievous schemes in Wall Market. He's a fantastic lead. Little extra character elements like that really endear him to me.
Then I picture someone like Lightning, and can't think of a single interesting facet to her character. She sure was a lousy big sister. Although I will say her role as 'savior' in LR is probably the most interesting thing she's ever done.
Absolutely fair points. but you've really only addressed the sound and visuals, which most would be expecting SE to upgrade, and the least problematic areas for any possible remake.
I'm not saying they can't deliver a visual and audio update that I would 100% be happy with. It's the gameplay that's the minefield. Would today's mainstream be happy with the same exact mechanics? The same submarine/chocobo/motorcycle minigames with a lick of paint?
Lambda Pie
Banned
i'm pretty sure they could find 20 or 30 marks who'd remake this for minimum wage.
A lot of the Final Fantasy games could claim these accolades.
I was simply stating possible reasons for FF7 to be many people's first FF, moreso than any other title up until then, and that being the main contributor to it's increased popularity over the others.
Let me reframe the point: Do you think that most of the people who bought it had played a SNES Final Fantasy beforehand?
I neglected to mention that FF7 was also the first to be released in Europe. We were totally ripe.
I completely agree with this. This is one of the most important factors a remake would need to respect.
I also think the general rule for a Final Fantasy VII remake should be "less is more", meaning, a FF7 remake with FF13 Eninge or FFXV engine wouldn't work!
Is doesn't have to cost 100 million and it shouldn't.
That's why I think a FF7 remake would be best suited for a handheld. Forget the big home consoles. A handheld version, were you don't have to use gajillions of polygons and insane resolutions, would be much cheaper & probably even more lucrative, especially in Japan.
A remake that completely nailed the "spirit", both visually and gameplay-wise, was Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D. A Final Fantasy 7 remake should therefore feature visual improvements just like this:
During the ingame battles and the summons they could improve it a bit more (but not MUCH more - just a little more), with stable framerate and more polygons, better textures, improved backgrounds but still close to the originals.
Kageshinzo
Member
Again, people who want hyper-realistic remake of FFVII are probably just looking at the game in the broad perspective. A lot of you seem to forget that FFVII is chock full of silly little things that, when remade with hyper-realistic graphics, would look absolutely corny and stupid (and not in a cute way).
If you remove all the silliness in FFVII, you will have taken away a large part of its charm and would just turn it into one of the "serious" RPGs that have become prevalent since at least the last generation.
If you remove all the silliness in FFVII, you will have taken away a large part of its charm and would just turn it into one of the "serious" RPGs that have become prevalent since at least the last generation.
I completely agree with this. This is one of the most important factors a remake would need to respect.
I also think the general rule for a Final Fantasy VII remake should be "less is more", meaning, a FF7 remake with FF13 Eninge or FFXV engine wouldn't work!
Is doesn't have to cost 100 million and it shouldn't.
That's why I think a FF7 remake would be best suited for a handheld. Forget the big home consoles. A handheld version, were you don't have to use gajillions of polygons and insane resolutions, would be much cheaper & probably even more lucrative, especially in Japan.
A remake that completely nailed the "spirit", both visually and gameplay-wise, was Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D. A Final Fantasy 7 remake should therefore feature visual improvements just like this:
During the ingame battles and the summons they could improve it a bit more (but not MUCH more - just a little more), with stable framerate and more polygons, better textures, improved backgrounds but still close to the originals.
I remember buying the pc version when it first came out, thinking "OMG they have mouths!"
I guess you meant more of an upgrade than that huh?
I dunno, the tone of something like Resonance of Fate didn't seem stupid because of the realistic characters. I think the Honey Bee Inn could be hilarious with properly proportionate characters.
I totally thought you were being sarcastic here. I thought he was a douche.
Then came Squall
I always liked Tidus!
Nah. Cloud's not really a douche at all. Although it'd be interesting to hear why you think he is!
I will agree with you on Squall and Tidus though. Squall's insufferable, but I thought Tidus did develop nicely.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
XIII-2 has a realistic look, but still has floating Moogles, Chocolina, etc.
Professor Beef
Banned
I just wanna see the Shinra Staircase climbing scene in HD with voice acting. That would honestly make my decade.
Bananajama
Banned
The VA's not the best in X, but I think it has more to do with this being one of Square's first forays into full voice acting, and the constraints of attempting to match up the English lip synch to the Japanese animation, rather than anything to do with the voice actor's actual performances. Tidus' VA is REALLY good in Dissidia, for instance.
First rpg I ever played with voice acting. I thought it was fricking amazing, flawless!
Nowadays, compared to the likes of Persona, it's naive at best. I still dig it tho, and taking into account the times and the tech, it's still fine.
Remember when FF7 first came out in the west, and everyone lauded Barrett's localisation?
"Wow he actually sounds ethnic, and also curses! Bravo Square".
Yeah that wouldn't quite get the same reaction today.
Sazh> Barrett - Yeah, I said it!
For me English VA is the worst for FF. Japanese dub + Subtitles (if one cannot understand) is far, far, far superior to the experience. Everything just feels better.
Cross dressing Cloud is just a 3D model swapped Lightning. And fighting Emerald Weapon at the bottom of an ocean modeled after GTAV's? Out of sight.
encephalon
Member
The Japanese dub fixes Tidus but ruins Auron. : (
encephalon
Member
The former isn't what takes time and money and the latter is probably subject to change. More than anything it's the creation of assets that takes time and money.
Everything takes time and money. Even if the cost in terms of man hours, dollars, etc. of designing everything is 1% of the overall budget, that's 1% saved. With the repeated language that this undertaking would be massive, unprecedented, etc., I'm not sure I understand how the game would be so much larger than any current-gen project.
What I'm trying to comprehend is how this project would be greater than creating, say, FF16 from scratch. Perhaps I read too much into the verbiage used, which would be my mistake, but I interpret the repeated comments about how huge the project would be to mean it's necessarily greater than that.
I remember buying the pc version when it first came out, thinking "OMG they have mouths!"
I guess you meant more of an upgrade than that huh?
Yes
I forgot to add that in a remake the there should still be both "overworld" and "ingame battle" character models, but carefully improved. The overworld characters should still look a little more deformed and "cute", but not nesseccarily consist of the same "blockiness". They could look like Link from OOT3D for example. The "ingame battle" characters also dont need too much improvement. Little more polygons, better, finer textures, more detail - that's it! Their original styles just need a little more "accentuation". All of those "little changes" would be perfectly acceptable for a handheld game.Kageshinzo
Member
There is a big difference between floating Moogles and a red, man-sized cat wearing a Shinra soldier uniform, standing on two legs, and trying to blend in.
encephalon
Member
The reality is that FFXVI is not likely the be created with the scope and diversity of FFVII. The series has not seen such a world since IX.
Metalingus5150
Member
When Square is on the brink of going bankrupt and can only make ONE more game. It'll be the Final Fantasy VII remake.
Green Card
Member
Toriyama has been discussing a FFVII remake starring Lightning because of how popular she is. He believes it is the only way a FFVII remake could sell.