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Digital Foundry: Thief for Xbox One edges out the PS4 version

Skeff

Member
It seems a bit of a stretch to recommed a game with lower resolution and lower framerate for better texture filtering. Also Richard Ledbetter seems to have changed his view on what a significant difference in resolution is from last generation, which is...odd.

He probably should have sat on the Fence on this one.
 

TyrantII

Member
I think the correct response to this one is

LOL Unreal Engine 3.


People knew it had issues last gen. We're in a new gen and they're still using it. And it appears it never played well with OpenGL.

There's a very few games/devs last gen that worked well with that engine, but mostly it was crap coming out the other end from a tech and performance perspective.
 
Instead on focusing on DF final judgement, let's focus on the real issue here.
Why there's no AF in PS4 version? And why is Sony letting this pass on their QA tests?

indeed. Strider I can be certain was a mistake or an oversight, but here? Given the framerate differences are about what you'd expect for high level of AF vs no AF... it certainly poses questions.

It seems a bit of a stretch to recommed a game with lower resolution and lower framerate for better texture filtering. Also Richard Ledbetter seems to have changed his view on what a significant difference in resolution is from last generation, which is...odd.

He probably should have sat on the Fence on this one.
I haven't heard him talk about the differences at all. This article is not by him.
 

DrkSage

Member
Good news for the Xbox one? Good news for the Xbox one. Although I haven't seen much push for this games from either Microsoft or Sony so I decided to watch a little play trough and the thing is I didn't find it interesting at all :/
 

pixlexic

Banned
It seems a bit of a stretch to recommed a game with lower resolution and lower framerate for better texture filtering. Also Richard Ledbetter seems to have changed his view on what a significant difference in resolution is from last generation, which is...odd.

If you watch the comparison you will see the ps4 version slows down more during gameplay and the xbone slows down more during cutscenes.

add that to the texture problem and the out come is correct.
 

shandy706

Member
I think the lesson here is don't buy the game at all.

The PS4 version should have been 900p. The X1 maybe 720p.

Screw resolution...get the games running stable. People need to drop the worry over res on the consoles.
 
Good news for the Xbox one? Good news for the Xbox one. Although I haven't seen much push for this games from either Microsoft or Sony so I decided to watch a little play trough and the thing is I didn't find it interesting at all :/

not THAT good. its running poorly for both
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
I disagree with this somewhat. I get that anything below 1080p for this gen is pretty disappointing coming off the longest gen ever, but in some cases hitting 1080p is simply a bullet point and not the best decision. Forza 5 is 1080p, and is likely only 1080p because MS required a title that they could point to in order to deflect any 1080p/60fps criticisms for the X1. The sacrifices made to get there however mean that the actual image quality is inferior to that of some games running at lower resolutions (such as Ryse). If all else is equal, than 1080p is objectively better than 900p yes, but on the same platform, that will pretty much never be the case.

It's actually not that far fetched to think that different platform owners have different priorities when it comes to what they value in games. I'd think it's far more likely that someone posting in threads such as these, looking at fps counters, and making the point (as you are) that 1080p should always be hit by these console, and anything else is unacceptable, currently owns a PS4 (and/or a PC) due to it having a reputation for being able to hit this res more consistently. Due, to this the dev may be less willing to cut the resolution on this platform, than they would be for the X1, where the console's owners are more used to this happening. You can see plenty of examples in this thread of people saying that the resolution/fps is more important to them than the texture filtering, so it probably would even be the correct choice if this was the case right?

I get where you are coming from, but I was talking more about the fact the TV panels we have been buying for years are 1080p. It's not that less is disappointing, but that lower res requires a correction be made to the image in order to be displayed properly on the screen. I find 900P acceptable, but it is still below par, as in a lesser quality than our TV's demand. I agree certainly that you can have a better image at a lower res, but that still puts it below the standard for resolution, regardless of overall image quality.

I also assume that every one would like to meet this standard, but make trade offs as they see fit. Though I accept your point this may not be a priority at all for a specific manufacturer.

But to suggest as that poster did, that delivering that standard for pretty much everyone's home screens is to meet the desires of console warriors and select groups with number fetishes, is just silly, hence my post.

I believe something can be acceptable, good even, and still be below a standard in any given area.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Also Richard Ledbetter seems to have changed his view on what a significant difference in resolution is from last generation, which is...odd.

The article is not by Leadbetter.
 

Autofokus

Member
Sorry for the 1/2 OT, but LOL@the PS4 v1.01 changelog. Instead of posting the real log, they used the changelog template by Sony. ;)

1801259_142487007109055iqh.jpg
 

Skeff

Member
indeed. Strider I can be certain was a mistake or an oversight, but here? Given the framerate differences are about what you'd expect for high level of AF vs no AF... it certainly poses questions.


I haven't heard him talk about the differences at all. This article is not by him.

Haha, I assumed it was, should have checked the author. My bad.
 
I think the lesson here is don't buy the game at all.

The PS4 version should have been 900p. The X1 maybe 720p.

Screw resolution...get the games running stable. People need to drop the worry over res on the consoles.

that's what I'm going to do. these kind of framerates just aren't something I'm prepared to tolerate any more. and yes, I skipped GTA5 and The Last of Us.

But I don't think we need to drop the worry about resolution either. 900p looks like ass to me compared with 1080p. give me stable 30 fps (like AC4) at 1080p on PS4 and I'll be good.
 
They don't, they take a bit longer to stream for some reason...

PS4 allows you play the game while it is being installed. DF most likely didn't let the game install fully before testing it hence the delay in streaming textures. So in the end, the way DF tested it, PC and Xbone was streaming from the hdd while PS4 was streaming from the disc while trying to install the game to the hdd at the same time.
 

EGM1966

Member
Man this game is just poor on all platforms - they must have tossed up a coin to pick a winner in this case given the various resolution, frame rate and other differences.

PS4 sure does look uglier though due to the texture issue although I guess technically it plays a bit better due to smoother framerate.

The reviews had already convinced me to duck Thief for the moment and this has just added to my conviction - will wait and see if they patch it at all to improve things.

Gotta say what's the point of licencing tech like Unreal if you're going to produce such bad results with it - the whole point is to have something solid from the get go and focus on your extension code and content.

I guess it's another cross-gen game too which doesn't help.

Seems like a lot of devs are getting caught short trying to optimize and tune so many different versions (PS3, 360, PS4, XB1, PC, etc. etc.).
 

Kuro

Member
indeed. Strider I can be certain was a mistake or an oversight, but here? Given the framerate differences are about what you'd expect for high level of AF vs no AF... it certainly poses questions.


I haven't heard him talk about the differences at all. This article is not by him.

I have an answer to your question, UE3 is shit. Especially when it comes to OpenGL.
 

Mike Golf

Member
They don't, they take a bit longer to stream for some reason...

This is what boggles me, aside from the crap Trilinear filtering. Are we seriously still dealing with UE3 streaming issues? Please someone correct me if I am off base here, but I thought the entire reason behind the streaming issues of UE3 last gen was due to the low amount of memory in the consoles? Now that we have about 5 to 6 GB on each system to utilize, why is this even still happening? Is it just a hold over of a last gen engine build the developers used and they didn't bother to make the necessary updates to utilize as much of the available RAM as needed? I understand still having LOD transitions, but teexture streaming issues and pop in?
 

Chobel

Member
If you watch the comparison you will see the ps4 version slows down more during gameplay and the xbone slows down more during cutscenes.

add that to the texture problem and the out come is correct.

No, framerates in PS4 are still better in most cases.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Sorry for the 1/2 OT, but LOL@the PS4 v1.01 changelog. Instead of posting the real log, they used the changelog template by Sony. ;)

That's Thief's update log? LOL

That really does make oneself question the time the devs have invested in the PS4's SDK. :p
 
I have an answer to your question, UE3 is shit. Especially when it comes to OpenGL.

I was already worried that Rocksteady's next Batman game will be using UE3. After this head to head I am even more worried. Please let it be a 2015 game with a new engine.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Weird about the texture filtering, but I would give the edge to the XB1 for that reason. It clearly makes quite a difference. More so than the resolution difference does with the AA solution they're using.

This game just seems like a technical mess all around, though.
 
I haven't played the game, but from reading the article I would have went with a tie. The ps4 blur is shit, and there is no reason for a game that is not as graphically impressive as this to still go sub-20 fps on xbone and it has lower res too. Just a poorly made game imo.

I will still get this game. Though will definitely wait as a game like this will go sub-20 dollars in no time lol.
 
Pictures or it's not true.

EDIT: What the fuck have they done to butcher this game visually? To think Konami can get results like GZ on PS4 but these guys can get the worst-looking version of Thief on the same system is such a terrible look.......for them
 

Chobel

Member
Damn. I'll take more detail and give up a bit of resolution any day. 900p is more than sufficient for me. What I care about is better texture filtering, effects, etc.

That's not how PS4 version actually look, it's texture streaming issue where textures takes short times to load, that problem in PS4 happens only happen in cutscenes.

thiefw5p9l.gif
 

Magwik

Banned
All I am getting from this is that Thief should have launched in about 2 months and not now. Not enough time in the oven.
 

shinn623

Member
Yikes man am I glad that I ended up going with the PC version instead of ps4 (had it reserved, but canceled on release day). All in all bad ports for both the bone and ps4. Wish the DXHR team had been the team to work on this.
 

ypo

Member
There is a comment on the Eurogamer article claiming that his texture filtering looks the same after he enables POM on PC.

I don't have the PC version so I can't confirm this.

Haha wow so yet they went with the lower setting on the PC version for the comparison. Obviously trying to skew the result. Wonder why.
 

Tobor

Member
Oh god! 1080p doesnt mean much if textures look like a blurred mess. Terrible.

This is why you don't use still images to highlight a temporary streaming issue. People who don't bother reading the article will just assume the game always looks like that.
 

Synth

Member
I get where you are coming from, but I was talking more about the fact the TV panels we have been buying for years are 1080p. It's not that less is disappointing, but that lower res requires a correction be made to the image in order to be displayed properly on the screen. I find 900P acceptable, but it is still below par, as in a lesser quality than our TV's demand. I agree certainly that you can have a better image at a lower res, but that still puts it below the standard for resolution, regardless of overall image quality.

I also assume that every one would like to meet this standard, but make trade offs as they see fit. Though I accept your point this may not be a priority at all for a specific manufacturer.

But to suggest as that poster did, that delivering that standard for pretty much everyone's home screens is to meet the desires of console warriors and select groups with number fetishes, is just silly, hence my post.

I believe something can be acceptable, good even, and still be below a standard in any given area.

Yea, I do agree that it is sub-par, and I don't want to give off the impression that I'm agreeing with what TheKayle says, because I think he's crazy, lol.

I just disagreed with the idea that devs can't view different console audiences differently (not necessarily claiming that they actually made a decision based on this). I think we've seen plenty on this forum from people like Dennis, to see that often what will be important to say a PC gamer, isn't the same as someone using the Wii U as their main console, and I think devs are often aware of this too. I just think the average PS4 user is more likely to be put off by a game not being 1080p than the average XB1 user.
 

Chabbles

Member
But I'm still scratching my head as to why they claim it's the better console version when it has more cons than pros.

+ground textures smoother at a distance

-less stable frame rate
-looking at screenshots looks like there's no tesselation at all
-lower resolution

Good question.. although personally i couldnt care less which console version they deem to be the "winner". All i care about is them patching the PS4's framerate and filtering, and sorting out the texture streaming issues (which i havnt noticed in the 3 or so hours iv spent with it), but damn, iv noticed the framerate, its terribly unstable.
 

JB1981

Member
So there is a texture streaming issue and a texture filtering issue on PS4? None of which are present on Xbone/PC?
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
I don't understand how this would happen. There should be no technical reason for a PS4 version of a multiplat to ever have lower-res textures or worse texture filtering. Nor should it be worse at streaming in textures. Have they simply focused all their optimization efforts on the XBO version and just left the PS4 version in an "eh, good enough" state?

Also (and I know this has been brought up sooo many times lately), I love how last gen a few lines of less resolution in the PS3 version was a major deal, but now that the PS4 version has a 44% resolution advantage it doesn't matter.
 

ironcreed

Banned
That's not how PS4 version actually look, it's texture streaming issue where textures takes short times to load and only happen in cutscenes

thiefw5p9l.gif

Yes, it takes longer to filter the textures and causes more pop in. My point stands. I'll take a bit less resolution if it means I can have better texture filtering and more detail. The Xbox One version just looks a bit better to me and apparently Digital Foundry thinks so as well.
 

Elios83

Member
That's not how PS4 version actually look, it's texture streaming issue where textures takes short times to load, that problem in PS4 happens only happen in cutscenes.

thiefw5p9l.gif

That is the well known texture loading issue of the UE3.
It seems weird to happen considering that the game should be running off the hard disk and no the Blu Ray drive, so the loading time should be quick enough and similar on both platforms.
 
excuse, me, but how do you figure that texture filtering and streaming issues aren't a matter of image quality? of course they are.

Ofcourse they matter. Higher detail resolving matters more in this case.
Texture streaming issue during cutscenes hardly matters general iq. Texture filtering does matter general iq so it becomes matter of preference.
I do think resolution matters more to general iq in this case...

Now I am in hurry to fix shit and stop shit from burning out of control. Ciao
 
That's not how PS4 version actually look, it's texture streaming issue where textures takes short times to load, that problem in PS4 happens only happen in cutscenes.

thiefw5p9l.gif

Hmmm, the good ol' UE texture streaming problem. Weird they didn't get rid of it on the PS4.
 

Tobor

Member
So there is a texture streaming issue and a texture filtering issue on PS4? None of which are present on Xbone/PC?

It's possible that the texture streaming issue is caused by the game not being fully installed.

The texture filtering is either a bug or bad porting.
 
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