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[UnrealEck]

Yeah, I bet you'd literally explode.

Don't be absurd.

 

[Valnen]

Really hope the PC version looks this good, I will be deeply saddened if it doesn't because that gif is gorgeous

If it's not in the final build then please at least have it be moddable to a state like this. I can't see something like this in a Souls game and then not have it, it's too good lol

Games generally don't look as good as small gifs because these small gifs hide imperfections.

 

[Necromanti]

Yeah, I was happy at the time to hear that From would stick to their vision after all of the complaints of "too dark" from beta players.

Is this true? That could explain the change, I guess (and removing certain types of lighting to do this would be the easiest way to still be able to meet deadlines). Maybe that's too drastic. I don't know.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The changes that affect gameplay, like too much visibility, are a real concern. If From had to turn off the lighting to save framerate, it's more than disappointing that they didn't have a backup plan in place.

In a Souls game the mood and lighting are linked directly to the playing of the game itself (in the case of visibility, having a big impact on mechanics and strategy.) If the PC version and/or a next-gen edition have the intended light levels, then the 360/PS3 versions don't just look less nice - they're compromised versions of the game.

That's a shitty thing to do to their fans, since the potential userbase for 360/PS3 is still the biggest. Especially in Japan on PS3.

 

[KePoW]

I apologize if you feel like you were spoiled but as others have pointed out it's been shown in the reveal trailer. It's also not the actual name of the place, I thought it was vague enough not to bother anyone but I'll be ultra careful in the future.

Sorry.

You don't have to apologize, that was not a spoiler.

 

[mickcenary]

I apologize if you feel like you were spoiled but as others have pointed out it's been shown in the reveal trailer. It's also not the actual name of the place, I thought it was vague enough not to bother anyone but I'll be ultra careful in the future.

Sorry.

No worries, mang. Like you said, it's very vague and I, personally, have no problem with it, but it's better to be over-the-top-stupidly-safe than sorry with these things. Cheers for the consideration.

 

[DaciaJC]

Is this true? That could explain the change, I guess (and removing certain types of lighting to do this would be the easiest way to still be able to meet deadlines). Maybe that's too drastic. I don't know.

Link.

Fan feedback from the beta was overwhelmingly positive, yet the darkness of the woods was a common complaint – not only because players wanted to relish the series’ glorious High Gothic environments, but also because it makes progress harder. You can carry a torch in your left hand, lit from a bonfire (the series’ sanctuary for restoring health and levelling up) but extinguished when unequipped, or you can carry a shield for protection. Choose.

“I don’t think that we’re going to make it any brighter, but we do understand that there are dark areas,” Miyazoe says. “The cave is pretty much pitch black if you don’t have a torch, but that’s part of the gameplay as well. After playing it ten or 20 times, you’ll start to memorise how the path goes and then you won’t need a torch.”

And if fear over Dark Souls II’s accessibility got the better of you, just ask Miyazoe what to do if you find yourself torchless in a deep, dark place far from a bonfire. “Um, you’ll die?” he laughs. “There will be critical moments where you are forced to choose between the shield’s protection or vision ..."

 

[JoeFenix]

Link.

This makes me so sad

I love the concept and the execution seemed pretty solid, so many areas look like they were built with this mechanic in mind.

Imagine being invaded and being forced to retreat into a pitch black area, invader lights a torch before going in and you see him approaching. You can both see each other but the player holding the torch is at a disadvantage, kind of a cool dynamic, if he takes the torch away no one sees anything! There's potentially alot of fun gameplay/visual moments that could happen because of the torch mechanic.

 

[Cassius]

I hope the PC version doesn't get handicapped.

 

[Regulus]

-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.

I noticed this in the network test, where it didn't even really look like the metal armors had specular maps. I feel like a huge portion of what makes the original Dark Souls look good is the excellent spec maps. It's a shame that they seem to be be mostly absent, because the flat looking environmental textures do not mesh well with the radial light that emanates from the player character.

 

[mickcenary]

wtf is wrong with me, how could I have looked at that and expect that to be in the final game?

Haha. I am having the exact same stupid-revelation-that-probably-should-never-have-happened-in-the-first-place sort of thing, too.

 

[Curious_George]

So how long before someone creates a "dark" mod for the PC version? Also, would anyone actually use it since it'd mean a distinct disadvantage in an invasion scenario?

 

[Necromanti]

Link.

Ay, mi corazon.

(I've never seen the art that's at the top before. Looks pretty interesting.)

This part doesn't sound very encouraging, though.

“I don’t think that we’re going to make it any brighter, but we do understand that there are dark areas,”

It didn't sound like an absolute assertion that they would never change in the face of majority feedback saying it's a problem. They wouldn't want that to hurt the success of the game.

 

[SneakyStephan]

wtf is wrong with me, how could I have looked at that and expect that to be in the final game?

tiny ass gifs like that make anything look a lot better, it looks like cg in that gif because you can't see any flaws in such a small (and because it's so small so heavily downsampled) image

but yeah the atmosphere in that gif is really awesome

i still cringe any time anyone links a tiny gt5 gif to pretend the game looks amazing or something

 

[jacksepticeye]

Games generally don't look as good as small gifs because these small gifs hide imperfections.

for overall IQ and textures detail? sure. but I at least want that dynamic lighting casting all those shadows

 

[JoeFenix]

From that recent interview

"Character animations are now motion captured, giving a more natural fluidity, while an increase in lighting sources made possible by a new bespoke engine means illumination plays a bigger role in the game. The player and some enemies carry fiery torches with custom mobile lighting effects, and this in turn has given the team a merry excuse to create caves and other interior areas that are plunged wholly into darkness."

I feel like a ton of areas in the game are supposed to be REALLY dark. Some of the more barren/boring looking caves/interiors could look fine if they were actually meant to be pitch black and explored with a torch.

for overall IQ and textures detail? sure. but I at least want that dynamic lighting casting all those shadows

The shadows from the lightning are still in the final game, certain dynamic parts of the lighting engine are still there in the final game but that area does not look the same.

It's grey and flat, missing alot of the atmosphere you see in that gif.

 

[Cloudius12]

wtf is wrong with me, how could I have looked at that and expect that to be in the final game?

Obviously not the final build but the footage in January, its in, but I just don't understand why they would remove it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM Some spoilers of course.

 

[Ghazi]

Obviously not the final build but the footage in January, its in, but I just don't understand why they would remove it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM Some spoilers of course.

Yeah, it looks gorgeous. I don't know whether to think that 360/PS3 could've ran that or not, I'm guessing the latter though.

 

[Grief.exe]

I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.
-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.
-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.
-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.
-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.
-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.

Sounds like From bit off more than the consoles can chew.

I hope the PC version doesn't get handicapped.

You and everyone in this thread it would seem!

 

[JoeFenix]

Obviously not the final build but the footage in January, its in, but I just don't understand why they would remove it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM Some spoilers of course.

That looks amazing, really really good stuff and it ran alright from the looks of things.

I'm still torn on waiting for that damn PC version, I mean I could spare the 60$ and play the PS3 version but it's just frustrating. I really want to play the game but I know I'll be bothered by this stuff the entire time I'm playing.

Yeah, it looks gorgeous. I don't know whether to think that 360/PS3 could've ran that or not, I'm guessing the latter though.

It's been said many times before but journalists and show goers have played this build on actual PS3's without any trickery at previous events. There's TGS footage of the game that looks exactly like that

 

[Orthogonal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM Some spoilers of course.

Gorgeous! Such a shame if that's no longer present.

 

[Ghazi]

It's been said many times before but journalists and show goers have played this build on actual PS3's without any trickery at previous events. There's TGS footage of the game that looks exactly like that

That is so depressing.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Well i wont be buying it until all this downgrade shit gets cleared up. Would make no sense to downgrade the graphics like that if they already had it running on the hardware. I mean it objectively looks better. I was always gonna wait for the PC version though.

 

[Cassius]

At the very least, it looks nowhere near as good as the previews and demos. Animations are a marked improvement, at least.

This right here is why I don't preorder games anymore.

Not to say this game won't be fun, but it's out in the wild now and people are noticing that it doesn't hold up to what we were shown it would look like.

 

[JoeFenix]

That is so depressing.

Here's some offscreen footage from the TGS demo running on actual PS3 hardware.

Really shows off how awesome the torch mechanic could be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GdJP_Jhs2s

You see him go in there with the torch first, he dies and then at 2:40 he goes back in there without the torch. He literally can't see anything, it's a huge component of the gameplay that just got outright removed. He fumbles around in there a bit and then promptly realizes that it's not going to happen without a torch.

That exact area in the final build is just a grey drab corridor where you can easily see everything with no torch. People saying that it's not a big deal don't seem to realize that this actually affects gameplay dramatically considering the game is clearly built around this mechanic.

 

[jacksepticeye]

The shadows from the lightning are still in the final game, certain dynamic parts of the lighting engine are still there in the final game but that area does not look the same.

It's grey and flat, missing alot of the atmosphere you see in that gif.

 

[UrbanRats]

I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.
-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.
-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.
-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.
-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.
-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.



I don't think I've seen this area yet, but there's nowhere in the game I've seen so far that looks like this.

Still have a little bit of hope for the PC version though, but if they do include all the shit back, it'd look so far better than the console version... i don't think they'd do that without pulling a "Super Death Edition" or some other next gen crap, for people to triple dip, along with a ps4/XBone version.

See Tomb Raider complete edition sold at full price.

 

[JoeFenix]

Still have a little bit of hope for the PC version though, but if they do include all the shit back, it'd look so far better than the console version... i don't think they'd do that without pulling a "Super Death Edition" or some other next gen crap, for people to triple dip, along with a ps4/XBone version.

See Tomb Raider complete edition sold at full price.

The lack of info fucking sucks though to be blunt. I would feel like such an asshat for spending money on the PS3 version if the PC version actually delivers the goods.

That's what sucks the most about this situation, we don't know what the hell is going and what our options are.

 

[mickcenary]

It's been said many times before but journalists and show goers have played this build on actual PS3's without any trickery at previous events. There's TGS footage of the game that looks exactly like that

I am one of said show goers . It really did look amazing and ran perfectly fine. And the dynamism of the lighting was probably 90% why it looked so great.

It's a huge bummer, but when it comes down to it, no one wants DSII: Blighttown Edition

 

[Ghazi]

Here's some offscreen footage from the TGS demo running on actual PS3 hardware.

Really shows off how awesome the torch mechanic could be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GdJP_Jhs2s

You see him go in there with the torch first, he dies and then at 2:40 he goes back in there without the torch. He literally can't see anything, it's a huge component of the gameplay that just got outright removed. He fumbles around in there a bit and then promptly realizes that it's not going to happen without a torch.

That exact area in the final build is just a grey drab corridor where you can easily see everything with no torch. People saying that it's not a big deal don't seem to realize that this actually affects gameplay dramatically considering the game is clearly built around this mechanic.

It was so beautiful before, how it is now in comparison:

 

[epmode]

Still have a little bit of hope for the PC version though, but if they do include all the shit back, it'd look so far better than the console version... i don't think they'd do that without pulling a "Super Death Edition" or some other next gen crap, for people to triple dip, along with a ps4/XBone version.

See Tomb Raider complete edition sold at full price.[/QUOTE]

This is totally Namco's MO. Dammit, something like this happens every time I pre-order something. I should know better by now. Maybe GMG will allow me to cancel.

..I think I'm going to need an official statement before I order again.

 

[Lucent]

This is disappointing to hear. I would be okay with it if the framerate didn't dip, but it sounds like it does in some places despite the downgrade.

I'm still getting it, but man. Would be nice if they came out and said "yes, we know it is not what you saw before. We have a patch that'll come out to fix that day one/soon"

 

[Chance Hale]

The review embargo is for Tuesday so that reviewers can spend time with the patch that restores lightning!

 

[Ghazi]

This is disappointing to hear. I would be okay with it if the framerate didn't dip, but it sounds like it does in some places despite the downgrade.

I'm still getting it, but man. Would be nice if they came out and said "yes, we know it is not what you saw before. We have a patch that'll come out to fix that day one/soon"

A patch supposedly can't fix this, basically other than a rerelease/next gen upgrade/good pc version, the game is the way it is now forever.

 

[FACE]

This is totally Namco's MO. Dammit, something like this happens every time I pre-order something. I should know better by now. Maybe GMG will allow me to cancel.

..I think I'm going to need an official statement before I order again.

Pretty sure they will. I've canceled a pre-order there(forgot which game) before and it was quick and painless.

 

[epmode]

A patch supposedly can't fix this, basically other than a rerelease/next gen upgrade/good pc version, the game is the way it is now forever.

Of course a patch can fix this. A patch can change Dark Souls 2 into South Park.

But if the problem is with unsatisfactory performance on PS3 and 360, it's very unlikely to be patched. Please please please don't ruin the PC version as well.

 

[Seance]

I am one of said show goers . It really did look amazing and ran perfectly fine. And the dynamism of the lighting was probably 90% why it looked so great.

It's a huge bummer, but when it comes down to it, no one wants DSII: Blighttown Edition

Optimized demo vs Full Game.
I don't think the old build would be possible without a ton of loading zones, which is exactly what they should have done IMO.

 

[Orthogonal]

I can't imagine why it wouldn't be properly done on the PC. The development for those effects was in the game a year ago. It actually took additional development time to remove them from the game since the Network test.

 

[JoeFenix]

The only other explanation that might make some sense is that From did some testing late in development and got pretty much overwhelming feedback that the game was too dark and relied too much on the torch mechanic. They panicked and the only way to quickly change things was to turn off a significant part of the lighting solution to make the game brighter overall, might explain why some outdoor areas are less affected?

Who knows, taking wild guesses here honestly.

 

[KCroxtonJr]

I think it's more than a performance thing, my wild guess is that they were running out of time and money, and couldn't get the entire game to look as good as the stuff they showed, so they just nerfed the better graphics to match with the rest of the game they never got to that level of quality.

 

[JoeFenix]

I think it's more than a performance thing, my wild guess is that they were running out of time and money, and couldn't get the entire game to look as good as the stuff they showed, so they just nerfed the better graphics to match with the rest of the game they never got to that level of quality.

Could be but the problem is certain areas look SO much better than others, I'm guessing the lighting engine changes aren't as obvious in brightly lit outdoor areas. Those definitely still look pretty good which makes the game looks really inconsistent.

If that was their goal then they failed miserably, I think this is the worst case of a Beta looking THAT much better than the final product this close to release. On the same hardware too...

 

[Seance]

I can't imagine why native resolution wouldn't be properly done on the PC.

I thought the same for DS1. Never underestimate FROMsofts ability to utterly amaze/appall.

 

[TheFeedingHand]

Oh fuck off... can't believe they ruined DS2 for consoles..

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is tremendously disappointing. The moody lighting was part of what made the game look so awesome in the reveal. Really hope it's in the PC version, but I'm pretty sure it won't be.

 

[Seance]

Edit:Whoops wrong thread.

Yeah I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if the PC version was just as drab and flat.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Edit:Whoops wrong thread.

Yeah I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if the PC version was just as drab and flat.

I don't expect it will have anything more than possibly resolution and AA options over the console versions.

 

[DaciaJC]

This is disappointing to hear. I would be okay with it if the framerate didn't dip, but it sounds like it does in some places despite the downgrade.

So much for the promised constant 30 FPS, I guess. I wish you the best, console bros.

 

[Robot Pants]

The only other explanation that might make some sense is that From did some testing late in development and got pretty much overwhelming feedback that the game was too dark and relied too much on the torch mechanic. They panicked and the only way to quickly change things was to turn off a significant part of the lighting solution to make the game brighter overall, might explain why some outdoor areas are less affected?

Who knows, taking wild guesses here honestly.

I like this theory. The game was incredibly dark on the network test. But it also looked like shit aside from the torches areas.
Who knkws. It was probably just Namco showing off the PC version the whole time.

 

[Zabuza]

Fucking bullshit. Kinda regretting my preorder now.

 

[doofy102]

I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.

maybe they want us tu use the torch lightning system, lightning a torch in a room completely changes the lightning from bland and lifeless to yellow bright light and if you die the torch stays on. I made some shots.

without torch

with torch

Everything is starting to make sense in regards to why some areas seem bland and have no "ambient light" sources - it would appear they were never meant to have any lighting or (hence) artistic light effects in the first place.

So, the best thing we can do might actually be to set the brightness down to the point we are forced to use torches in the areas they were meant to, and hope everything will work close to the original vision. This sounds like the stupidest fix I've ever heard but I'd be down for trying that. And the crushed blacks on my TV might actually serve a productive purpose for once...

It won't save the Mirror Knight but it sounds like something worth experimenting with anyway.