When I play Dark Souls 1 on PC I put the lowest resolution I can, just to be sure I don't wast a single second thinking about how the game look good, and can thus focus 1000% on the gameplay.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
XANDER CAGE
Member
Sure, but the initial "downgrade" was in the realm of acceptable changes made to a game in development. The fact that the lighting was removed clearly so late in development (late enough for us to still be getting preview footage of the TGS build quality up until release) is what's puzzling.
But yeah, you're right. Comparing everything to the initial reveal is a tad unfair because that was obvious a devkit build. The TGS demo, Sony YouTube channel footage, and network test are the things we should really stick to comparing things to.
This kind of flippant response has nothing to do with the situation at hand.
I_D
Member
At this point, the downgrade affects more than pure graphics.
The atmosphere isn't as strong, for example.
Based on the obvious level redesigns, it makes you wonder if they also received downgrades, rather than just changes.
The elements of the game: graphics, gameplay, music, atmosphere, design, stats, etc. all combine to make the overall experience, and if some elements have been downgraded, you have to worry about the rest.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Imagine a restaurant you love a lot, their dishes may not look very good, but even so they taste great and they put a lot of love and personality in them.
Then one day the owner show you a picture of their next dish: Not only will taste as great but also looks excellent! It tells you it will be avaliable next week.
Now you can't wait, not only is gonna taste great but also look very well, presentation is important in cooking too!
Then the day comes, you ask for the dish and when it arrives it dosn't look as well, hell! it looks as bad or even worse that the other dishes. You know it tastes well, but why teasing you with a way better looking dish if it was gonna look like before?
This is what happened, we don't care about graphics, but we see how good can Dark Souls look with better graphics and how much improved the ambientation with the old lighting. So now we're dissapointed.
UnrealEck
Member
This shit is getting rediculous now. People jumping to the farthest, most absurd conclusions.
The game looked like it did in the IGN preview for example. It didn't perform up to their standards. They made optimisations. Simple as that. That's the most reasonable and logical conclusion.
The question we need answered is whether or not they forked off for those extra two-three months and finished the PC version seperately with it looking as it did before.
zephervack
Member
Damn it Kotaku, why? Justifying the reduction of all the graphics because the torch gameplay would be annoying?
What the F
"the entire area looks like shit, even the dragon mansion but its ok guys, game got a bit easier, completely justifies it"
What is wrong with the Media, can someone please realize that they advertised the demo version of the game, Namco clearly knows it looks and plays better.
What the F
"the entire area looks like shit, even the dragon mansion but its ok guys, game got a bit easier, completely justifies it"
What is wrong with the Media, can someone please realize that they advertised the demo version of the game, Namco clearly knows it looks and plays better.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
enemies materializing sounds like a FOV problem
Dark Souls had this same problem
Going to take a guess, you are playing disc version right?
Didn't encounter those problems in my 20 hours of play
Corpses i didn't saw, however i frequently encountered pieces of breakable objects floating around whenever i destroy them.
You really need to look at more examples. It's not just lighting differences and a few textures:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104222082&postcount=3773
The animated gifs at the end are ridiculous.
TheCongressman1
Member
Good. I'm going to send them a few more messages.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Has FROM said anything on the matter yet?
If not I hope they break silence soon as it's making them look even more shady as fuck.
This whole thing is weird considering how open and forthright they were with Dark Souls. Niche devs can't go around acting like EA as they need to keep their fans in their good graces, I know Souls is a hit for them but it's only one game and this issue will have a knock on effect with their other IPs.
EDIT: Hmm is this issue a talking point for other forums and game sites or is it just GAF? If it's the latter then I can understand FROM keeping quiet so it doesn't spread to the media.
If not I hope they break silence soon as it's making them look even more shady as fuck.
This whole thing is weird considering how open and forthright they were with Dark Souls. Niche devs can't go around acting like EA as they need to keep their fans in their good graces, I know Souls is a hit for them but it's only one game and this issue will have a knock on effect with their other IPs.
EDIT: Hmm is this issue a talking point for other forums and game sites or is it just GAF? If it's the latter then I can understand FROM keeping quiet so it doesn't spread to the media.
weevles
Member
It's an honest question, because none of the previous games were particularly spectacular visually to me. The character models were never that good. There were some levels that were impressive in design, but the actual graphics engine wasn't especially outstanding and it was never the selling point for me.
I also intentionally limit the framerate to 24fps for the most cinematic experience.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Outside this thread on GAF and one on gamefaqs i didn't saw complainings about it
vpance
Member
That's highly unlikely. You're not going to develop the game for 18-24 months, spend the time and effort to create the level of quality of assets and lighting we saw, all the while hoping it'll run at a decent framerate on PS360, then suddenly discover it doesn't 2 months before release and have to basically neuter everything. That would be the most ridiculous waste of effort for their team. No "optimization" is going to go as far as the difference in the 2 pics above. What we saw was never running on PS360.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
If the game is good yes, otherwise laugh and make gifs about it.
#YOUDOWNGRADED
Rising_Hei
Member
I don't get the drama, Souls' series has never been about the graphics in the first place :/
I remember when Demon's Souls was first revealed... people thought it was crap because of its graphics hehe
I remember when Demon's Souls was first revealed... people thought it was crap because of its graphics hehe
HDgaming42
Member
Turns out what seems to be readily available is in fact the network test. Does anyone have a link to the Demo?
I've got an old launch PS3 Phat running Rebug that would love to provide a comparison of apples to apples running on the PS3.
PM me if this is better suited to that type of exchange*.
*you can't "pirate" a demo, can you?
I've got an old launch PS3 Phat running Rebug that would love to provide a comparison of apples to apples running on the PS3.
PM me if this is better suited to that type of exchange*.
*you can't "pirate" a demo, can you?
XANDER CAGE
Member
Look at the numerous comparison videos and screenshots people have posted, and read the previews and interviews that all mention the importance of darkness and dynamic light in the game.
People feel misled. It doesn't really have anything to do with "playing for the graphics." Most people posting here are people who are enjoying the game but want to know what the heck happened between the network test/TGS footage and now.
One website actually posted about this and tried to get a reply.
http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/d...ead_fans_with_early_dark_souls_2_footage.html
http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/d...ead_fans_with_early_dark_souls_2_footage.html
more like #brightsouls amirite?
False advertising, dumbing down of game mechanics, loss of atmosphere.
Did you know that the improved lighting system (which has since been stripped) was intended to tie directly into the gameplay? Lighting torches in certain pitch-black areas was to be a primary game mechanic. It was demonstrated in several videos and it was discussed in quite a few interviews.
So no, people aren't only complaining about the graphics downgrade.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Good work.
Fbh
Member
Yes, Graphics have never been the strong point of the franchise.
But ever since release the game has been advertised with better graphics than it actually has. Even in expos/events they showed it running on Ps3 with several of the missing effects.
The problem is that they lied.
If they had shown how the game would look from the start I think no Souls fans would have cared. But instead they showed this great looking game in order to generate false hype around the game
TheCongressman1
Member
I think #DarkSoulsDowngrade works. Gets the message across, but might be a little too long.
weevles
Member
Who knows why it's different from the in-development shots. Maybe it was a resource issue of not being able to optimize framerate in a reasonable amount of time. I can't really speculate. But I'll give the game the benefit of the doubt if it still plays well and is fun overall.
I think the enemies hiding in the dark was ok in the original Demon Souls, but now it's just a gimmick, and I imagine most fans should know what to expect in this regard.
CountAntonius
Member
What happened to the Light Radius thing which Dark Souls stole from Diablo2?
You can clearly see it in the demo, but I can't see it in the retail version.
It's there. I noticed it on a let's play today.
You can really see it around 16 minutes.
Guys, guys, guys, I'm sure the PC version will be fine, it's coming From (lol) the people who brought us the party boat!
THIS IS MADNESS!
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
It's irrelevant how the other games look. What matters here is what Namco/FROM advertised and how they completely underdelivered with the final product.
Blame Namco/FROM for this. They created this mess.
TheCongressman1
Member
Probably needs one, this thread only seems to have the same people coming in.
Polioliolio
Member
Kotaku is such a bitch.
darkpaladinmfc
Member
Diablo II's atmosphere is amazing, so that's not saying anything really.
Of course the OT is positive. It always is, for every game. Your post is just a long way of saying 'don't criticise the game!'
Zomba13
Member
Guys, guys, guys, I'm sure the PC version will be fine, it's coming From (lol) the people who brought us the party boat!
DAT LIGHTING
Well what did you want! You want to carry a torch through the game? That's no fun! That's why we have the boat, to illuminate the game without the need for a torch. It's more fun.
It's also safer. Party boat don't crash into no rocks at night. Party boat is a strong independently lit boat that don't need no lighthouse.
XANDER CAGE
Member
None of what people are upset about here nullifies any of the things that are good about the game. Since when has "but Y part isn't a problem" been a helpful response to pointing out problems with X part?
elementalsin
Member
If a new thread is made... Please be sure to make a point that the 'original' version was running on 'outdated' hardware via the PS3 beta... Far too many people are still making the 'what do you expect on outdated hardware' comment. They're either ignoring everyone saying otherwise (probably the most likely version) or are totally unaware that it WAS running on 'outdated' hardware at some point.
13 Years later and Dark Souls 2 couldn't even match it (although came close before downgrade).
One must pay careful attention to spot that light radius in that video posted earlier. That's how much things have been lit up.
FairXchange
Member
The game they shipped is actually excellent though. That's what bothers me, you're protesting against a game that is fundamentally great in all the categories that are supposed to matter. Also, it still manages to look good in most areas! It stands up to my scrutiny, and I have the new consoles with all their enhanced visuals.
For a range of reasons, a) because I'm under the impression most people making noise about this aren't actually playing the game, b) gameplay is well-established feature of the Souls franchise, as the series was never a graphical standout for most.
So essentially what shipped falls perfectly in line with what the Souls franchise represents, and yes, those areas in previews look different in the final version. The problem is it probably looks different due to hardware constraints, so it's more reasonable to be upset they made this for last gen consoles rather than targeting next gen.