OldAsUrSock
Banned
Dont stop believing
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From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
I was maybe considering picking game up but now? Fuck Namco and Fuck From.
TheCongressman1
Member
What a horrible attitude. Customers are concerned, and they turn their back. Them not addressing the issue just cements the guilt. And then continuing to do the same thing with the PC version, that's really nice.
I won't be buying the game until someone talks.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
We can report the game on Steam for false advertising.
Admiral Woofington
Member
To be honest I'm getting the game on PC because I don't own a console that runs it anymore and because chances are it'll run and look better. Even if only slightly. Chances are it will be the definitive way to play it.
Also the game is getting stellar reviews. Sure they lied to us and don't seem to really give a fuck as they know we'll still buy it. But as long as it's an amazing game it doesn't bother me that much,
Also the game is getting stellar reviews. Sure they lied to us and don't seem to really give a fuck as they know we'll still buy it. But as long as it's an amazing game it doesn't bother me that much,
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Keep rewarding these companies for shitty behavior. Thank you.
Lalalandia
Member
I don't think anyone disagrees (except those who find the PS3 performance unacceptable) but the question is when is it acceptable to deceive your audience? How do we give out about company A if we let company B away with it?
I would say just wait for the pc version because all of the old lighting stuff will be in there (pleeeeeeassse).
Admiral Woofington
Member
How am I going to stick it to the man? I want to play the game. I really do. If I had a ps3/360 I'd rent it but I have a ps4, that's what I plan to do with Watchdogs since I am disappointed they lied to us. There's only four options on PC: Wait for a massive sale that won't occur for ages (and I got the game for $40 anyways), mooch off one of your steam friends by playing theirs as a family member (which means you'd have to wait until he/she is not playing), don't buy/play it, or a fourth shitty option that only an ass would do in this situation.
Like one of the regular journalists here said, nothing can be really done until the game in question is released. These guys have about 2 months to give us a glimpse into the game on PC. I'm not going to deny myself the game because the company's response was shitty.
This is similar to the chic-fil-a situation where the owner said something negative towards the gay community, and people were swearing off buying the chicken sandwiches or going there again. That's great for them and I'm sure the media took notice, but it probably had a minimal effect on their sales. And I wasn't about to stop eating those delicious chicken sandwiches.
yeah, that's really cool of him to just release videos showing the differences before any version was out
Hydranockz
Member
Is the deception malicious or even intentional or is it simply the byproduct of a dev not able to optimise a game on pretty old hardware before release?
They literally came out and said that they were forced to make changes to the game so that it could still be playable and the game still has a fair share of stability issues. Absolutely no one is denying that the game was downgraded in some manner. I would imagine that marketing assets like those we still see are secured and whatnot prior to the game being printed. I would love to hear some feedback if that is or is not the case.
It honestly feels like a case where they got to the point where delaying the game was not an option because of the amount of marketing that had been done and the timing of the release.
What I struggle to believe and I'm sure many of the games journalists also struggle to believe is the idea that this downgrade was planned or that there was intent to mislead. VG review sites got the same game everyone else did. The game went through some changes before release as many games have done so before this. That isn't news to any games journalist and it's a reality that many devs can emphasise with.
Tidus_Great
Banned
so basically we bait and switched.
not really mad we should all know this happens since FF7 did CGI trailers to fool people into thinking FF7 actually didn't look like lego people.
not really mad we should all know this happens since FF7 did CGI trailers to fool people into thinking FF7 actually didn't look like lego people.
Krusenstern
Banned
Hah.
They have screenshots of the pre-release builds on the store page. If the final game won't resemble them I might actually do this.
That sounds totally reasonable. Screenshots should show what the actual game looks like and not be doctored in any way. Though I know the pc version will have these effects. From is probably not commenting because a) they want people to buy the console version and b) they don't want console people to get mad that pc players get the new lighting and they don't.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Yes, thank you professor, I'm aware that game development changes (I've pointed out my awareness of such in nearly every thread on this goddamn subject now). That isn't the point. For starters, FROM/Namco made a pretty clear mistake in their lack of communication on the subject of the game's development, because official footage of the older builds was coming out at the same time as quietly distributed b-roll and screenshots showing the uglier build. Likewise, the one thing players got their hands on pre-release, the network test, had the darker dynamic lighting intact. Expectations were being maintained up until release. What's more, te changes were clearly last minute, as the game prominently displays torch tutorials and places sconces where they aren't needed. Changes are totally understandable - this one just feels very hasty.
If things aren't working in your development, stop showing them off. That way the "transigent horde" can at least get all their complaining out of the way after a trailer releases, not the final product.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
And yet the demos and media they used to promote the game looked and RAN better before the downgrade took place. Even now they keep using a mixture of pre and post downgrade media to advertise the PC game and refuse to release screenshots or videos of the game running on PC.
I don't think it's that simple. The behavior is shitty, sure, but I don't buy games I don't want because the companies are nice (actually I may have done this in the past but you get my point). They're offering a product, and I think it's worth the price they're asking even if it ends up being the retail version at 60fps, so I bought it.
I'll totally agree that if the PC version being the same as retail is enough to stop someone from playing, then they should wait for impressions, pictures and videos instead of preordering, as shitty as it may be to miss the artbook and soundtrack.
If it ends up being 30fps locked, then I'll be mad as fuck, even if it looks next gen as shit. YMMV, you know?
EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is that buying a game you want is not necessarily rewarding anyone. Rewarding companies I like would be buying games I'd normally wait for a sale (especially because I KNOW they'll be on sale very soon) just to support that company, like I do with XSEED. Or buying games I already own to gift to people because I really like it and I want to further support the company.
Hydranockz
Member
Have you ever seen a game change it's marketing content? I imagine there being some kind of process for submitting the content to market and some kind of deals with distribution of said content. I would love to know more about it because I believe it to be a process that takes a lot of time/effort/money to do and to change it now would be costly.
Mazdaspeed
Member
The easy answer to this is to wait until the game is actually out before buying it. Does not knowing the exact specs of the game before it is released cause you that much stress?
Specs have been released, we are worried about the state of the actual game.
Will it look like the TGS PC Trailer? Or will it look like the console release? These are extremely relevant questions.
60 FPS has been confirmed by Bandai and From.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Do you know how we found out about the Watch_Dogs downgrade? Because of Ubisoft's marketing. DS2's downgrade didn't happen at the last minute. We only found out about it until the last minute because From and Namco witheld media that accurately represented the product.
Hydranockz
Member
Can you elaborate on the bolded?
OldAsUrSock
Banned
They already have a 60fps trailer and From said they were doing the best for console and PC. The images and trailers that have caused this controversy were not stated as being PS3. They even kept saying, "next-gen engine". Players expected those graphics even when From did not say it was PS3 gameplay. I know people said they played it in booths, but we know already that publishers use PCs for that. The most recent one I remember was when the Xbox One demos were found out to be running off of PCs with Nvidia GPUs.
phantomspiker
Member
There are some inconsistencies, but From's general message on the state of the console version has been on point starting ~mid January.
Some review outlets still chose to show TGS footage after that point, and some marketing material slipped through the cracks on Bandai's end, but, overall, its not too much to take offense with.
Some review outlets still chose to show TGS footage after that point, and some marketing material slipped through the cracks on Bandai's end, but, overall, its not too much to take offense with.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
None of those show anything from the TGS demos, making direct comparisons impossible. All we could tell is that some areas looked bad.
This + the fact they were still showing the TGS demo to press at the time sends a pretty confusing at best message about the game to people.
Infiknight
Neo Member
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
He claims the game ran poorly and yet all their demos ran fine. Seems pretty deceptive to me.
ENB said something similar in one of his videos, that the first builds he played ran like crap, and when From said for them not to worry because they'd improve that, he thought it was bullshit because of how bad it ran.
It's very likely that this is what happened, seems reasonable, but that still doesn't answer our concerns about the PC version. The fact that they made the best game they could on PC doesn't mean the final game won't reflect the compromises they had to make for consoles, unfortunately.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
ENB's comment basically confirms the theory that the E3/TGS demos were just TECH demos and the actual game never looked or ran as good in the first place.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Can I return my copy to gamestop for a full refund since the product I bought wasn't what I was shown and sold on?
What did From do wrong?
GodParticle
Member
I still can't get over the button lag
Is that what's going on? I was wondering why sometimes I press a button and nothing happens. Most times it's when I'm trying to chug a potion at a critical time >_<
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
I know you want to blame everything on Namco but FROM is the publisher in Japan, therefore the marketing over there (such as TGS demo and trailers) is on them.
What was wrong with the TGS demo?
Also when was the last Japanese trailer released?
jacksepticeye
Member
I still can't get over the button lag
Yep I timed it today, between pressing start and for the menu to pop up it actually took slightly over 3 seconds. Might not seem like much on paper but in game it's a huge delay
Also yeah I have no life D:
CountAntonius
Member
Plenty of people said the demo's didn't run fine. Giantbomb for one said it plenty of times in their Quicklook. If it wasn't for performance issues then for what reason do you think it was removed?
I'm all for the false advertising outrage in this thread but thinking they intentionally gimped the game when they didn't need to for some evil reason seems silly to me.
Right, but we don't say "Fuck From!" for having to downgrade (my post before was for metroid-squadron). We might if they purposefully used false advertising, but TGS was long enough ago that they may have still been shooting for that at the time.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Very interesting. Maybe things do bode well for the PC version after all.
Yeah but it can vary depending on when the last time you accessed it was, when the last time you loaded a new area etc etc. It has to load in like anything else. If I just boot up the game or load into another zone and press it, it's like 5 seconds. Other times, after having accessed it many times it comes up instantly. Sometimes it will pop up and only half of the equipment icons will be there and it will load in more as I'm in the menu. It varies greatly.
To be fair, they were very upfront abou the April Reveal running on PC, so if not for the TGS demo, it's very likely that we wouldn't even be having this discussion. People would just assume the vertical slice was a vertical slice and move on.
The start menu has a huge input lag, but the controls of the characters doesnt have that much. I feel like DS1 actually had more input lag, although thats probably because the framerate suffered more.
Another thing is the estus animation being slower, or having to wait till your stamina bar increase at 100% if you want to sprint aftear eat all of your stamina, changes from DS1 that may make feel the game slower.
CountAntonius
Member
I'm Just gonna quote this guy because this is what I've been saying happened all along. It makes sense.
You will have to plead to the manager but I don't know how it works with open products.
No, fuck From and I hope everyone who worked on the game loses their job. They disgust me. I'm actually vomiting right now.