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How is Nintendo hurt by not doing an E3 press conference?
- Thread starter wildfire
- Start date
I could invest time in copying what Aquamarine posts in NPD articles but I have no time to argue with a brickwall at the moment.
Look for yourself at the massive decline in Nintendo's sales.
To not think that the sales have seen a massive decrease in console and handhelds is to ignore year of "console gaming is doomed" articles.
Aaronrules380
Member
I'd really like to know what data people have to support the idea that the mainsteam MS and Sony audiences would be interested in Nintendo's titles anyways.
Marketing isn't about throwing money at every opportunity. It's about knowing the people who you're product can appeal to, knowing how to make it appealing to said people, and targeting the shit out of them. Nintendo marketing to the mainstream Sony/MS crowd would be a complete and utter waste of money no matter how much they spent because all data points to that crowd not liking the type of games Nintendo makes
Marketing isn't about throwing money at every opportunity. It's about knowing the people who you're product can appeal to, knowing how to make it appealing to said people, and targeting the shit out of them. Nintendo marketing to the mainstream Sony/MS crowd would be a complete and utter waste of money no matter how much they spent because all data points to that crowd not liking the type of games Nintendo makes
UncleSporky
Member
Let's do a little thought experiment.
Previous Nintendo: a lot of little Directs throughout the year and a live E3 press conference
Current Nintendo: a lot of little Directs throughout the year and a big E3 Direct
Let's flip that around.
Let's say they move to having a big live E3 press conference, and replace all the Directs with smaller live press conferences that the press are invited to. Live stage events every month showing off upcoming stuff.
What impact does this have? Is this suddenly some sort of massive boon that turns things around for the company?
I mean, apparently it's that stage presence that's everything, right? That'll get the hardcores watching every time?
Previous Nintendo: a lot of little Directs throughout the year and a live E3 press conference
Current Nintendo: a lot of little Directs throughout the year and a big E3 Direct
Let's flip that around.
Let's say they move to having a big live E3 press conference, and replace all the Directs with smaller live press conferences that the press are invited to. Live stage events every month showing off upcoming stuff.
What impact does this have? Is this suddenly some sort of massive boon that turns things around for the company?
I mean, apparently it's that stage presence that's everything, right? That'll get the hardcores watching every time?
I'm not denying that Nintendo is in decline, they certainly are. If you think anyone is saying that then you're misinterpreting everyone's replies. I'm just saying there's no evidence to support that an E3 press conference has affected Nintendo or anyone else's sales. You can try to make that argument, but you can't support it.
Could you explain this, please?
What aren't they doing that you think they should do to impress potential owners?
...but ps+ is a great deal. you get free games...!!
and i agree it was actually a brilliant moment.
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
I want to see the franchise do well so I want so see it promoted as widely as possible. Lets get this straight. Are you actually suggesting that Zelda U on a Direct is suddenly going to be the #1 story on every mainstream gaming outlet at the end of the platform press conferences? I don't know what year you think it is but it sure as hell isn't 1998.
Aaronrules380
Member
The decline in Nintendo's sales is something I guarantee you is connected far more to the rise of the mobile gaming market drawing away casuals and kids than anything related to e3. Correlation does not equal causation. 3DS sold less despite having a great year you say? But to whom is the year great? Because most of the highly regarded games were fairly niche, or targeted at an audience who likely had a 3ds anyways. Pokemon X and Y have sold pretty much exactly the same amount as Black and White did in the same timeframe, despite the DS have a vastly larger install base at the time. This tells me that the lower system sales aren't coming from the audience interested in Pokemon. The 3DS is facing market saturation faster than the DS did because the mobile market is taking out a huge chunk of the DS market that buys a console late. Kids aren't being given a 3ds as their first gaming device, they're given their parent's smartphone
Because most gamers refuse to read or think logically when it comes to Nintendo.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
I'm not sure I've seen a single person say this. but yeah, that wouldn't be smart of anyone to assume...
So you've forgotten the SS demo? A live demo can also end up being detrimental.
Also, don't insuate something I haven't said.
Refreshment.01
Member
Hey, Ragnarok where you the one who did the breakdown on how exactly Nintendo handled E3 2013? If so, really applaud the transparency in trying to explain the situation. A shame that factual information gets buried and ignored in the thread just to get grounds to perpetuate biased discussion.
We should just tag some of those post and past them everytime these threads repeat themselves over and over. It would save at least some typing.
Yes, they are people implying that. We had the press last year reporting "NIntendo no show at E3". Or people going to the extreme of ignoring the gigantic E3 2013 and 2014 show floor presence becuase they didn't have a live conference.
UncleSporky
Member
Admitting defeat by eliminating on-stage flubs and exerting more control over their own message, having their own post-conference show instead of letting the media come up with its own narrative, and using their live stage time instead for a huge gaming tournament.
I'm on my phone and can't quote all the "they admit defeat, have nothing to show" posts. Or simply the posts that overestimate the importance of E3 - which is irrelevant, because Nintendo -will- show stuff at E3.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Worse, they ignore it when given actual lessons.
I kick myself at least once a week for even trying.
Aaronrules380
Member
So, can any of the people talking about how it hurts public perception give me their take on how many kids even know that E3 is a thing? Because that's the largest target audience Nintendo core games appeal to, not the college or high school student audience
This was a weird topic last year and it's a weird topic this year.
Press conferences did Nintendo no good when launching the 3DS and the Wii U. In fact, I think we can associate more failures with press conferences than we can with winners. Remember Sony's disastrous conference where they revealed the price of the PS3? Or Microsoft's unveiling of the Xbox One?
Conferences don't enhance the message. It doesn't mean they're bad or not useful. It just means that we're approaching this conversation from the point of "If Nintendo has a press conference, they will do better as a company." We think that press conferences are the golden ticket to mainstream recognition and appreciation. But that's not true, and it really never has been true.
The near-mythical, highly sought after, mainstream market is attracted to the right message. Marketing is far more than PR and Advertising. It's more than just events. It's in the product design, it's in the objective, it's in figuring out who the product is for and who will be the most receptive to a message. If the message is bad, the way you deliver it is not going to help.
Look back to last year's E3 Direct. Was there any info in that direct that you think would have been enhanced by a conference? By having journalists in seats, live blogging to their highly engaged constituents? Was the problem channel obscurity? It really wasn't, and deep down I think everyone (maybe except Nintendo) knows that it wasn't.
Last year, all of the outlets wrote the same articles they do every year about the message Nintendo presented to them. They went to the show floor and wrote hands on impressions of all the games Nintendo had lined up, just like every other year. Press-Kits with trailers and assets were disseminated to all the major players, and all of them decided which they wanted to put up and which they did not. Very little actually changed. It's just that Nintendo's message is not effective. Their product, their lineup, and their entire image isn't catching on this time. There's a multitude of reasons for this that we could go on forever about, but that's the issue. All this talk of trying to explain "why" Nintendo is going digital only with their media is pretty frivolous. If Nintendo announced a fully 3D console with the best graphics money could buy on an E3 Direct, you can bet your ass that would be all over the most important outlets, trending on twitter, and showing up on the evening news.
It's all about the message, not about the delivery. That's what makes this conversation so weird. We're trying to associate one thing (Nintendo doing bad) with another (Nintendo deciding to not do press conferences), when the two aren't necessarily related.
Press conferences did Nintendo no good when launching the 3DS and the Wii U. In fact, I think we can associate more failures with press conferences than we can with winners. Remember Sony's disastrous conference where they revealed the price of the PS3? Or Microsoft's unveiling of the Xbox One?
Conferences don't enhance the message. It doesn't mean they're bad or not useful. It just means that we're approaching this conversation from the point of "If Nintendo has a press conference, they will do better as a company." We think that press conferences are the golden ticket to mainstream recognition and appreciation. But that's not true, and it really never has been true.
The near-mythical, highly sought after, mainstream market is attracted to the right message. Marketing is far more than PR and Advertising. It's more than just events. It's in the product design, it's in the objective, it's in figuring out who the product is for and who will be the most receptive to a message. If the message is bad, the way you deliver it is not going to help.
Look back to last year's E3 Direct. Was there any info in that direct that you think would have been enhanced by a conference? By having journalists in seats, live blogging to their highly engaged constituents? Was the problem channel obscurity? It really wasn't, and deep down I think everyone (maybe except Nintendo) knows that it wasn't.
Last year, all of the outlets wrote the same articles they do every year about the message Nintendo presented to them. They went to the show floor and wrote hands on impressions of all the games Nintendo had lined up, just like every other year. Press-Kits with trailers and assets were disseminated to all the major players, and all of them decided which they wanted to put up and which they did not. Very little actually changed. It's just that Nintendo's message is not effective. Their product, their lineup, and their entire image isn't catching on this time. There's a multitude of reasons for this that we could go on forever about, but that's the issue. All this talk of trying to explain "why" Nintendo is going digital only with their media is pretty frivolous. If Nintendo announced a fully 3D console with the best graphics money could buy on an E3 Direct, you can bet your ass that would be all over the most important outlets, trending on twitter, and showing up on the evening news.
It's all about the message, not about the delivery. That's what makes this conversation so weird. We're trying to associate one thing (Nintendo doing bad) with another (Nintendo deciding to not do press conferences), when the two aren't necessarily related.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
They already said there will be new games. Please get educated bro.
Even if 99% of kids know about E3, the fact is Nintendo will show stuff at E3. This is the part that makes the discussion absurd.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I can't imagine a mainstream gaming outlet NOT putting Zelda U on their front page, regardless if its' announcement was done by telegram or telepathy.
Who is going to pass that up?
Aaronrules380
Member
See this is a valid arguement. I do think NIntendo faces issues with the smartphone gaming encroaching on their main audiences and that they might need to find ways to appeal to the audiences Microsoft and Sony pander to if they want to do better. I personally prefer what Nintendo does now, but from a business perspective that is important. BUt given that there products aren't appealing to the MS Sony audience, marketing to them right now is entirely pointless
Kids in 10's are more connected than the 90's. Your point will get weaker with each passing year. Heck one of the links I provided in the OP caters specifically to that age group you think Nintendo can't reach through E3.
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/28312-nintendo-e3-2013-summary
Yes to both questions.
Aaronrules380
Member
Because the other target audience for Nintendo games is gaming enthusiasts like us and we do pay attention to e3. But we're also aware of the directs and are generally more informed so that massive hype is less of a factor to us. It might be true that among the typical gaming crowd that most of the people watching the Nintendo directs are Nintendo fans already. But the fact is that most of the people who aren't Nintendo fans already in that crowd are just plain uninterested in what Nintendo has to offer. Them watching won't change a thing
Mainstream people buy consoles from hype and the excitement of future releases. They won't find those in Nintendo directs. They usually get it from their local newspaper or TV watching. Pretty sure they don't know what a Nintendo Direct is.
Aaronrules380
Member
Of course they are. But that doesn't mean they're following gaming as much. Kids who follow gaming sites are most likely the type that grow up to post on places like Neogaf. They're the enthusiasts in the making. And kids who find stuff on kid specific websites will probably not encounter the same perception issues that pervade the typical gaming media
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
UncleSporky
Member
I can just see the headline:
"NEW ZELDA SHOWN TO SMALL AUDIENCE WHO WATCHED QUIETLY-RELEASED, UNCONFIDENT, PRE-RECORDED DIRECT"
My take on it is that E3 is a lot like Christmas. No body needs to decorate trees, hang lights, or wrap gifts. Kids would be just as happy to get their toys by any other means. However, we do it anyway to build up the spectacle and make the moment feel like something important.
Press conferences are that same type of symbolism. The added spectacle and the big expensive sets with roaring crowds in attendance make them feel exciting and special. Nintendo opting out of the pomp and circumstance, and just putting on the same low budget show as always def makes it feel less important. I don't know if that effects the number of eyes that will see the Mario kart or Bayonetta trailers, I do think it hurts Nintendo in the general mindshare the gaming community.
This needs to be requoted whenever someone says Sony blew up because of their press conference. They totally miss the point of what was leading up to that conference.
Also this deserves some acknowledgement.
I think in a world where most people learn about enthusiast news through a trending topic on twitter, the power of "spectacle" is slightly overrated. I think it has a place. Trust me, I'm a strong believer in crafting a compelling narrative. But remember that everything's getting condensed to a hashtag at some point, so your message better be strong enough to make an impact beyond the conversation about the rapper you hired to perform at your event.
UncleSporky
Member
So the Direct will be a success, as long as they hire a group of people to sit in a rented theater and cheer as they do a mock-live conference!
Presence at trade shows is about 2 things:
1) How big is the dick that you want to wave
2) Is the trade show big enough to make waving your dick worth it
E3 is a western show and it's not what it used to be, so I'm sure that's going into Nintendo's decision to some degree. But, if you've got a big dick, then you're going to swing it at every opportunity.
I think it's clear Nintendo doesn't have an earth shattering announcement to make that it thinks will out-class anything Microsoft or Sony will do. Furthermore, they're nursing the wounds of a failing system and a shrinking handheld market, so I think they're laying low until they've formulated their Next Big Thing.
Oh, but imagine the hype when they finally announce their first E3 conference in X amount of years. @-@;
1) How big is the dick that you want to wave
2) Is the trade show big enough to make waving your dick worth it
E3 is a western show and it's not what it used to be, so I'm sure that's going into Nintendo's decision to some degree. But, if you've got a big dick, then you're going to swing it at every opportunity.
I think it's clear Nintendo doesn't have an earth shattering announcement to make that it thinks will out-class anything Microsoft or Sony will do. Furthermore, they're nursing the wounds of a failing system and a shrinking handheld market, so I think they're laying low until they've formulated their Next Big Thing.
Oh, but imagine the hype when they finally announce their first E3 conference in X amount of years. @-@;
lwilliams3
Member
So this year, Nintendo is actually using a theater for a live event where some of the public could get invited? They have the potential do some interesting things between rounds and intermission.
Aaronrules380
Member
Those people don't know about e3 either. The people Nintendo is targeting find out about the games through commercials more than any other source, because those people are kids. And commercials are going to be the same regardless of how Nintendo treats E3. Nintendo's presence at the show itself from a business perspective is entirely reliant on appealing heavy enthusiasts and long time fans more so than this so called mainstream gamer. So in that context Nintendo's decisions make perfect sense
matty2Dfraud
Banned
Like i said, pretty stupid assumption to make.
I agree. Im a ps gamer mainly but I watch/follow the ms conference. If there was a nintendo one I would also follow it. The nintendo direct. I just read up a bit on it later at night but didnt really pay much attention. But then again it could just be to do with my apathy towards the wii u and was far more excited by ms and sony's next gen offerings. Still feel a conference helps. the direct gets teh message thru to the already nintendo faithful imo the conference allows a wider audience .... just my feelings on the matter. may be wrong.
A Nintendo Direct at E3 is like a World Series game 7 in a half empty stadium. Sure, the content will be the same, and their will still be millions of people watching at home, but the game just feels a little less important when you can't hear that special overbearing roar of the crowd. Maybe their aren't many sports fans here, but baseball fans will understand how the game feels less exciting when your team is playing at a stadium with only a few thousand people in it.
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
Great post that's all true but an effectively managed press conference can do a lot more good than any ad campaign/recorded video. An E3 stage demo is your biggest opportunity to shape your narrative in the more mainstream gaming outlets. Sony's press conference at E3 wasn't great because of the content (I actually think Microsoft 's showing was generally better) but because of the audience reaction to certain things they announced. It was the cheering at the Sony presser that cemented that whole DRM issue as a big deal and that became the biggest story coming out of E3 and defined the pre launch media cycle. All the fist pumping fantasy football bros on TV Microsoft could buy weren't enough to turn the narrative.
If Nintendo are confident that their next Zelda game is going to be amazing, they should demo it live at E3. Wowing an E3 audience can do wonders at generating hype because it is a spontaneous reaction. Ubisoft did that with Watchdogs and it still helps the game get attention even after the delays.
Which gaffers you are talking about?
I would say almost everyone in here is talking about different priorities on how to market a product.
[edit] You answered the question before I posted.
I will turn around your previous statement and say some people don't know what a marketing budget is as well as how to do market analysis.
If you can't back up your claims with some research you won't get anywhere.
You mean this?
Investors should be retailers but that's pretty much all they did. The media just got really salty about the new format. I can sort of understand why the big sites that stream conferences like Gametrailers, IGN, and Gamespot would be so upset about the format change, but the smaller sites sure bought into it, too. The sensationalism would get them clicks, but wouldn't convincing people Nintendo was going to have a terrible E3 reduce interest in E3 itself? Seems self-defeating in the long run, but the media is always about those short term gains.
Aaronrules380
Member
You can only build hype in an audience if the audience cares about what you're showing. Believe it or not, the current mainstream gaming as seen on Sony and MS systems doesn't give two shits about Nintendo games. The enthusiasts on the systems do, but they're not representative. So you might get tons of cheers from the press for an awesome new Zelda, but the typical gamer still won't care because they don't get excited for Zelda games, no matter how well made
Pretty much how I felt watching last year's ND@E3.
UncleSporky
Member
So like I said above, they just need to pre-record a "live show" with sounds of a roaring crowd and it'll be a total success.