I heard he even now has an email account and everything.
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Nintendo full year financial results [23.2B yen loss, 3.6M Wii U/12M 3DS forecast]
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
- Start date
I heard he even now has an email account and everything.
Annieone23
Banned
DEA think Nintendoomed?
Also, can't wait to buy SSB4 and X and MK8 and Zelda (and a WiiU).
It don't add up. People on GAF and the rest of the webs are looking forward to these new games like they are the second coming of Christ, and then turn around and say Nintendo is doomed forever. Wat?
Also, can't wait to buy SSB4 and X and MK8 and Zelda (and a WiiU).
It don't add up. People on GAF and the rest of the webs are looking forward to these new games like they are the second coming of Christ, and then turn around and say Nintendo is doomed forever. Wat?
Baron von Loathsome
Member
The thing to consider is that these are usually not the same people.
Because they are already doing that on their own terms. Why do they need to be on another system, with admitted low support for their 'brand?' How is dropping your revenue stream, to pay someone else to do the same thing a sound business move? Now, not only are you not reaching the people you were, but now, you're in a less friendlier ecosystem, with a finite amount of resources and you have to hope that these other ecosystems aren't going to be failures in the long run as well. Imagine if Nintendo was an Xbone exclusive, and they find out they're saddled to number 2 for the generation. It's exactly why Origin and uplay exist. As long as your wares have some worth, every little bit counts.
Annieone23
Banned
I mean who in the world ISN'T looking forward to SSB4, let's be honest. If I cross reference all the threads about those three announced games, and this thread, for hypocrites I'm pretty sure I'd dig a few up.
Aquamarine
Member
Oh come on now.
People...even shareholders of Nintendo or employees of Nintendo here on GAF...can criticize the company or Iwata. Why do you have such an issue with that?
The company itself is not "doomed," nor will they be in the near future. What we're experiencing is a re-orientation within the company towards greater profitability with the failure of the Wii U. As this is a very unique time within Nintendo's history, its nuances are worth discussing.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Nintendo needs a shake-up on the board level. Some of those guys have been with the company for decades, and it's hard for me to fathom how they can take their jobs so seriously with such unassailable job security. Furthermore, they need someone to initiate and maintain relations with western developers and publishers. NoJ has all but emasculated NoA, leaving western third party publishers and developers with no one of real authority to communicate with aside from conservative and guarded Japanese businessmen with no real understanding of the marketplace outside of Japan.
Just because you're psyched for the release of a game doesn't mean that you think the company itself is headed in the right direction. I'm very excited for Smash Bros. My 3DS is hyped for it, but that has nothing to do with how I view Nintendo as a business.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Yeah, a few. There's obviously some overlap, but you're overstating it.
Mysterious
Banned
They clearly don't understand Japan either. Wii U is performing better in NA than in JP/PAL.
Refreshment.01
Member
I've proposed that in some sense but with Nintendo making a custom input device (special controller as they always do) but with a more open and standar hardware platform:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=555816&highlight=
Is not a prefect proposition as some kinks need to be corrected but i think is a very plausible model for them to pursue.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Ok, so I gather that you are (forgive me if my reduction of your argument is at all inaccurate) arguing that since Wii's popularity lasted longer than a particular time frame that it should not be termed a "fad". I personally feel that this would lead into a messy debate, so I'll just leave us to our own opinions on that. The reason why I came at you so sharply was because, you approached the previous poster with a condescending remark about the definition of a fad, when your argument is based off of a personal and arbitrary standard.
For instance, I do not feel the length of 5 years precludes something from being deemed a fad, while you do. Different standards. But I don't think it's right to approach the argument as if you're standing on empirical evidence, when both of you are battling ideals.
1-3 does not excuse the Wii and motion from being a fad. Time passed and interest waned. That's the progression on a macro level, on which fads are traditionally judged. You can argue why you think interest waned all you want, but it happened.
In response to 4, are you honestly trying to compare touch interface, with full body motion gaming? You're comparing two completely separate experiences, that not only emerged at the same time, but also trace their genesis to completely different origins. That's the definition of a reach.
Similar to 4, 5 is another incredibly reach. VR predates our contemporary idea of motion capture, and it predates touch. Completely different tech, utilized for completely different purposes. Show me data in how the tech simultaneously evolved or how they engage a similar neurological response from the user, and avoid making sweeping generalizations. Another issue is this: you're also comparing a tech that helped a device move 100 million units, to an experimental technology that has sold a resounding 0 consumer units?
The Horror the horror
Banned
That could be because NA is just a bigger market.
I think there is room for services other than Steam, particularly if Nintendo offers japanese titles. They could still make royalties, expand their audience to PC, and if they play their cards right, have a successful line of "steam" boxes, handhelds and peripherals (like the PC controller you outline).
As opposed to hoping to recreate the Wii fad.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Not sure what you're talking about?
Donkey Kong TF, Mario 3D World, Bravely Default, Pikmin 3... all Nintendo published games, have been extremely challenging. I'm having crazy trouble in TF, Mario 3D World is Brutal in W8, and what game uses status ailments so early in a game as much as BD?! everyone dies of poison all the time!
And getting all the fruit while not losing Pikmin is a hell of a challenge.
So, I think we just live in a different world then.
Unless you haven't played a Nintendo game since Wii era? Then I apologize.
I know they didn't develop BD, but they still invested in it, which is really what we're talking about
This thread is too big. Probably been posted a few times, but whatever:
Revenue = sales of video games.
Operating income = sales of video games - cost to run video game business.
Net income = how much money Nintendo as a company actually made/lost, including extraordinary gains/losses from foreign exchange, lawsuits, bank investments, sales of buildings, taxes and whatever else.
PS: Those are simplistic definitions for operating and net income.
Revenue = sales of video games.
Operating income = sales of video games - cost to run video game business.
Net income = how much money Nintendo as a company actually made/lost, including extraordinary gains/losses from foreign exchange, lawsuits, bank investments, sales of buildings, taxes and whatever else.
PS: Those are simplistic definitions for operating and net income.
vagabondarts
Member
This thread is too big. Probably been posted a few times, but whatever:
Operating income = sales of video games - cost to run video game business.
Net income = how much money Nintendo as a company actually made/lost, including extraordinary gains/losses from foreign exchange, lawsuits, bank investments, sales of buildings, taxes and whatever else.
PS: Those are simplistic definitions for operating and net income.
These graphs make it clear that things aren't going to get any better if they keep doing what they are doing. Yikes.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Are you doing the Investors Meeting thread as per usual Aqua?
MisterGrey3000
Member
It's really not a subjective thing, before last generation a console cycle usually lasted about 4 to 5 years. Saying "The Wii was a fad!" completely ignores all the multitude of problems Nintendo has created by half serving an audience that they fostered for 5 years with the WiiU.
Freezie KO
Banned
I'm not talking about challenge. All three of the Nintendo-developed games you mention play nearly identical to their predecessors. 3D World and DKC:TF are particularly egregious examples since we just got games that play like them on 3DS and Wii, respectively.
There's no freshness to internally-developed Nintendo software anymore. They might be good-to-fantastic games, but they're not exciting and haven't been since Kid Icarus Uprising and maybe Galaxy before that.
The problem with offering the same experiences over and over again is that gamers like you, who remain happy, are a diminishing resource. The more "me too" sequels they develop, the more that pool of loyalty shrinks.
evilromero
Member
I agree. They used to be much more ambitious before Iwata's management. Hell, getting a new Mario game in the 90s was an event. Nowadays? It's pedestrian. Nobody even talks about or remembers NSMBU, NSMB2 or 3D World. They came and went with such little sustaining excitement. Like many have said, Nintendo's core titles of late have been very safe. It's diluting the brand appeal of their most important titles.
LegendofLex
Member
I think the more compelling argument is that the sales progression of the Wii life cycle exactly resembles that of other Nintendo consoles, just magnified on a tremendous scale. Also, the fact that this success wasn't just isolated to Wii but was also happening for DS. The whole scenario reads more like a well-executed strategy on both platforms than a fad outside of Nintendo's control. That the 3DS/Wii U strategy is almost laughably opposite the DS/Wii strategy and is achieving predictably opposite performance underlines this even further.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Time frame is only a qualifying factor of determining a fad. The other, more important issue is the drop-off. Show me another console with extreme sales trajectory in a 5 year span:
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
You're speaking as a fan, that's actually not completely accurate given market realities.
Consolidation of IP is not a Nintendo-plagued issue, but a by product of 'following the money,' which is driven by consumer purchase behavior. It's no different than anyone else, really. You only see 'innovation' at new console transitions, and even looking at the launch of this new cycle, it hasn't even hit yet.
As I said in my original post, I was talking as a fan too, so I hear you. We just have different expectations of what we want from them as a developer.
But in terms of business development, they are chasing what their fans want. Both Mario's have insane attach rates.
They however, have pretty much lost everyone else because the value proposition of their new platform has not become a mass-market viability. And for a a large variety of reasons I don't really care to get into any more, it's not making anyone money. And as someone whose career makes money of the success of Nintendo, I'm leaving my business opinion out of it haha!
LegendofLex
Member
The drop-off rate is, proportionally speaking, pretty similar to that of previous consoles. And, like previous consoles, the major drop-off coincided with a major drop-off in the number of titles released.
Can't be bothered to make a graph, but here's the data:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1403.pdf
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/number_of_titles_e1403.pdf
I agree that Nintendo's biggest problem is that their games at this point feel annualized (in terms of the final products, obviously not the frequency). That may be fine for third-party publishers with established install bases, but it doesn't do much for a console maker.
Father_Brain
Banned
In the span of the two years from November 2011 through November 2013, Nintendo released three NSMB games and two 3D platformers that attempted to be NSMB in 3D, plus one adventure/RPG that didn't play like NSMB but was obviously influenced by it in aesthetics and structure.
That's terrible brand management, and it can't really lead to any outcome other than diminishing returns.
There is fun to be had with the system, but the Wii U is getting exactly what it deserves. People should hope that Nintendo has actually paid attention and learned all of the harsh-but-necessary lessons that this absolute disaster has taught them.
Nothing1016
Member
Now that's forward thinking. Most progressive CEO in the biz
Mariah Carey
Member
What? Yeah it is.
Apophis2036
Banned
I agree with you that a chunk of early PS4/XBone adopters wouldn't be interested in a lot of Nintendo's games but what about when PS4 hits $299 in late 2015 and the mass market arrives ?. I think games like Mario, Mario Kart, DKC, Smash, Zelda and Metroid would all do incredibly well on those platforms with a more diverse customer base. They could even make more of the Wii Sports / Party / Fit games using PS Move / Kinect to target the really casual consumers.
People often forget when this subject is brought up that all the usual Nintendo fans would be buying one of the other consoles if it was the only way to get console versions of Nintendo software. Nintendo games would sell WiiU like software numbers on PS4/XBone alone just from hardcore Nintendo fans buying them. Add in the more core PS4/XBone audience for Smash / Zelda / Metroid and the more casual audience buying Kart / 2D Mario / DKC and they would sell an incredible amount of software on Sony / MS consoles.
This whole "PS4/XBone owners don't want Nintendo games anyway because all they play is AAA shoot bang with sex and swearing !" goes back to the incredibly annoying snobbery some Nintendo fans have with regards to gamers who don't play on Nintendo consoles.
I think the Smash Bros set up will be the future of Nintendo. Still two pieces of hardware but single games with slight differences between the two versions to encourage people to double dip. Only one version of each franchise instead of a different home and a handheld version will free up a lot of development staff to create far more content and hopefully avoid software droughts.
that oughtta do it thanks very much ray
The lesson that it's tough to transition into HD, that there is more competition now, that Nintendo is not immune to change? What exactly is surprising about this? Have they not been planning for this with those cash reserves?
Fourth Storm
Member
To be honest, I don't think the fact that they play very similar to their predecessors is the problem. They had some innovation in their Wii U lineup just with Nintendoland and W101. They both failed. Whether it be style, or marketing, or just not being what people wanted to play at that point, almost everything has failed to ignite interest in Wii U. Nobody complained about Galaxy 2. On other consoles, yearly iterations clearly sell by the bucketload. Nintendo can only completely reimagine franchises every so often. 3D World may have seemed "me too" but only because a mainline Mario game never debuted on a portable before (arguably, I love the GB Land trilogy). Donkey Kong is only a bit disappointing in that it should have only been released 2 years max after the first game.
you have nothing to support this other than a gut feeling. that's where this argument dies, every time.
Nealand Liquor
Member
Why don't they officially abandon the wiiu and come out with a high powered console?
Surely pissing off less than 5 million people can't be the reason, they've pretty much let the die on arrival.
Surely pissing off less than 5 million people can't be the reason, they've pretty much let the die on arrival.
prag16
Banned
I definitely agree on the last point. The last BIG game will more than likely be Zelda. While I don't think how they wind down the Wii U will have TOO drastic an impact on the next hardware, I also think it would be in their best interests to make sure they keep the percentage of their "base" that feels burned by the Wii U as low as possible.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
While I do lend credence to the idea that Nintendo's marketing and management at the DS and Wii launch was ace, the trajectory of the Wii is still very different from even the DS. Compare percentage drop of year to year Wii sales with any other home console from Nintendo. If the spike was solely the product of good management, the sales trend would be similar to the DS, which sold better than it's predecessors, but still had a similar sales drop percentage. It would just look like an 'elevated' graph, almost. The Wii's sales behavior isn't reflective of this. It quite literally is a sharp spike in the graph.
I'm not saying that part of the Wii's success was not harnessing their marketing and riding the popularity of motion, but I am saying that it is very much an anomaly in Nintendo's history, no matter how you look at it.
Edit: ahh we're responding to different comments of each other. I'll just wait a bit so we can sync up.
The yen was causing them losses three years ago. For the past two years Nintendo is actually gaining from the foreign exchange.
2011: -49 billion
2012: -28 billion
2013: +40 billion
2014: +39 billion
yen.
Without them, this fiscal year would be even worse.
Highlighting these things or other extraordinary gain/losses is what you do when you want to put blame elsewhere. It's like all the pointless shit Sony says every year (Oh, we lost 1 billion because the Moon crossed on Saturn). Nobody was rushing to highlight Nintendo lost 220 billion yen in forex in fiscal years 2008 and 2009 because they were making banking with Wii and DS.
As long as your business isn't making money, you're in trouble. You shouldn't plan your company on this type of uncertain income.
Apophis2036
Banned
Are you suggesting gamers on PS4/XBone don't like good games ?.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Iwata in half an hour:
digoutyoursoul
Member
Iwata in half an hour:
lol
I think your comment should be directed at the guy I quoted, maybe, because I have expressed not one shred of surprise regarding Nintendo's current situation.
And to note, those aren't the only lessons they needed to learn, but I'm sure you know that already.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I just found out that roughly 0.009% of my retirement portfolio is tied up in Nintendo.
Toss the bums out on their ears, let's start making some real money.
prag16
Banned
Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES".