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[Imperfected]

Then who would be?

They could, you know, try hiring someone with experience running a publicly traded multinational corporation. Or double-down on the grand experiment and try to hire Bill Gates to make the next Mario game.

(The problems Nintendo is experiencing do not arise from Iwata being insufficiently good at designing or programming games. They are everything to do with him being bad at business. I have no idea why you'd think they would replace him with Miyamoto, who by all accounts is even better at designing games and even worse at running a business.)

 

[StevieP]

The fad was over, the thing had been relegated to closets.

LOL
Just Dance 2014 sold a shitload on Wii.

 

[BGBW]

It's in 2.5h.

And I'm going to bed in 2.5m.

 

[atr0cious]

This board is almost entirely composed by developers. They need a businessman to lead he company out of the shit.

A businessman wouldn't greenlight W101 or Bayonetta 2, so I don't want one running Nintendo if they can avoid it.

 

[RiggyRob]

I have no idea.

Add this to Iwata's list of failures: he's groomed no suitable successor.

Then people would say he's exactly the same as Iwata and there's been no change.

They could, you know, try hiring someone with experience running a publicly traded multinational corporation. Or double-down on the grand experiment and try to hire Bill Gates to make the next Mario game.

(The problems Nintendo is experiencing do not arise from Iwata being insufficiently good at designing or programming games. They are everything to do with him being bad at business. I have no idea why you'd think they would replace him with Miyamoto, who by all accounts is even better at designing games and even worse at running a business.)

Considering Nintendo had been under Yamauchi leadership until Iwata, it's not unreasonable to think they may carry on a tradition of choosing family/employees over an 'outsider'.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

They could, you know, try hiring someone with experience running a publicly traded multinational corporation. Or double-down on the grand experiment and try to hire Bill Gates to make the next Mario game.

(The problems Nintendo is experiencing do not arise from Iwata being insufficiently good at designing or programming games. They are everything to do with him being bad at business. I have no idea why you'd think they would replace him with Miyamoto, who by all accounts is even better at designing games and even worse at running a business.)

Pretty much. Incompetence is the right word to use: Iwata doesn't know to rule a company. Neither Takeda or Miyamoto. It is not their job in the first place.

A businessman wouldn't greenlight W101 or Bayonetta 2, so I don't want one running Nintendo if they can avoid it.

There will no Nintendo at all is this trend will not be inverted......

 

[Cygnus X-1]

dp

 

[Jomjom]

Damn that 77% approval rating while everyone else is above 90%.

 

[Lunar15]

Where is this magical line that separates "businessmen" from "developers"?

Am I to understand that if you are a developer you can never develop business acumen?

 

[MisterGrey3000]

The fad was over, the thing had been relegated to closets.

Do you actually have any understanding of what a fad is?

 

[Teletraan1]

Oh you know, they are a lot more than that. But those titles usually don´t count (tm).

I am speaking to Wii U specifically here. Please enlighten me then. Please list off the myriad of Nintendo published titles that are not Mario/Zelda/Pokemon related. Currently released I have DK (a mario spin off), Lego City Undercover, W101. Pikman 3, Wii Fit U, Just Dance for Wii U and Ninja Gaiden 3 (both of which were just published by Nintendo and exist on other platforms) and a slew of Party/Sports/Puzzle mini game compilations that may or may not have Mario characters in them. I was counting this output and I stand by my statement. This handful of games is not worth having to buy a system for as opposed to their silly hypothetical projected output of just Mario/Zelda/Pokemon if they were not a platform holder.

 

[John Harker]

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

 

[Imperfected]

Considering Nintendo had been under Yamauchi leadership until Iwata, it's not unreasonable to think they may carry on a tradition of choosing family/employees over an 'outsider'.

It's funny you would mention Yamauchi. You know, the guy who didn't play nor even particularly like games, and had very little interest in the nuances of their design. The guy who was a straight-laced businessman, as old-school zaibatsu as it gets in that regard.

You can have a "suit" in charge of a company without ruining the creative output or destroying the development environment. I mean, just so we're clear, Nintendo isn't some sort of new-age Bohemian art collective. They aren't even an "open plan" company like Valve. They're very much a stuffed-shirt, nose-to-the-grindstone Japanese corporation with hardcore work ethics and a rigid hierarchy. They already run on "suit logic".

 

[Nothing1016]

Damn that 77% approval rating while everyone else is above 90%.

It'll probably drop to low/mid 60's at the election. He will have at least one more year to meet expectations and get the QoL platform started successfully. If he does, then I seem him staying as chairmen. If not.... Then we might see a new face running Nintendo.

 

[Taker666]

Damn that 77% approval rating while everyone else is above 90%.

That's because those voting likely don't have a clue who the others are and what they are doing. Negativity/blame will always stop with the head honcho when it comes to shareholders...the buck always stops there...regardless of how badly everyone else might be doing.

 

[Jomjom]

This is patently wrong. Where are the PS3/360 ports on Wii U?

There were a bunch of them. Just as PS3/360 software sales are declining fast, Wii U ports sold even worse. I'm talking about comparable to current gen tech, not comparable to last gen. It's not worth it to port to the Wii U, when it won't sell more than the PS3/360 versions, which in turn would even have trouble outselling the PS4/Xbone versions despite their relatively small userbase.

Agreed.

Really, at this point the entire INDUSTRY has shifted, and Nintendo has not. Nintendo has failed to make any good decisions in regards to the Wii U, and it could be argued that they're in the same position when it comes to the 3DS.

They still might be able to beat their own drum on the handheld front, but even the 3ds appears to have been a mistake as far as the hardware goes. Nintendo relied on the 3d gimmick in the same way that the Wii U has relied on the gamepad. Those gimmicks were treated like they were the reason people would buy the system, and they just aren't. Neither gimmick is compelling enough for most people to buy their respective device if you look at the sales figures. I don't personally play with the 3D on for any game, and on my wii U I prefer using a classic controller. There hasn't been any game that's made me say "3D or the Gamepad are a MUST". Neither have developers apparently.

The Xbone is having the same issue with the Kinect. Everybody is like "Why the fuck am I paying 100 dollars more for hardware that I won't even use and that no developer seems to want to work with?"

So Nintendo isn't alone in this. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a shitty place to be and that Nintendo did it to themselves.

At least with the 3DS, the 3D you can easily turn off with a switch and having it on at least works with nearly all of the games and can make the games look kind of cool. The Wii U has this giant tablet controller that has a horrible battery life because of the screen, yet uses the screen in almost nothing. I mean if you are gonna go with that tablet, go whole hog and make it the focus of everything. But when even your flagship titles don't use it or use it for dumb shit (e.g. honk button), it makes your consumer (me!) wonder why I had to pay for this crap, when the $100 or so dollars it cost could have gone towards putting in a way better graphics card so that I could be playing all the third party games on it plus Nintendo games with a ridiculous graphics fidelity.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Do you actually have any understanding of what a fad is?

I'm curious for your explanation on the sharp decline of Wii sales, along with the rapid decline to purchase games with motion controls?

If you're going to lobby that the Wii's sales were not inflated by the fad of motion controls, can you explain to me where the 80+ million people who purchased Wii Sports are?

 

[Ansatz]

There will no Nintendo at all is this trend will not be inverted......

I think they can attain a sustainable equilibrium if they focus on a single traditional platform (you can pick between portable and stationary SKUs but they play the same games with scalable graphics, think Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U)

Problem is they'd have to be content with being niche and look for growth in other sectors.

 

[georly]

I hope they don't spoil E3 like they did last year. Don't tell me 'Well be showing off a new zelda, a new mario, and a new animal crossing." Give me something to hope for. Don't tell me what you're going to do.

 

[Ty4on]

Actually, some of Nintendo's core IPs like Metroid would probably flourish more on other systems. Of course, whether or not they would have the resources to bother with it is another question.

Yeah. Metroid Prime 3 was by far one of the worst selling Nintendo games on the Wii with just over 1.3 million WW. All the Metroidvanias made by indie should be proof that there is a big market outside Nintendo.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

His vision for them as a developer is very difficult to fault aside from them not being properly prepared for HD development. But his vision for them as a company that deals with third party developers is nothing short of horrendous. It's almost like he still thinks that this is the 80's and early 90's when Nintendo was the giant of the industry and third party developers just had to deal with developing of their consoles because there weren't really many other options. That's obviously not the case anymore and it hasn't been for years.

 

[RiggyRob]

It's funny you would mention Yamauchi. You know, the guy who didn't play nor even particularly like games, and had very little interest in the nuances of their design. The guy who was a straight-laced businessman, as old-school zaibatsu as it gets in that regard.

You can have a "suit" in charge of a company without ruining the creative output or destroying the development environment. I mean, just so we're clear, Nintendo isn't some sort of new-age Bohemian art collective. They aren't even an "open plan" company like Valve. They're very much a stuffed-shirt, nose-to-the-grindstone Japanese corporation with hardcore work ethics and a rigid hierarchy. They already run on "suit logic".

In 1947, Yamauchi’s grandfather, the incumbent president of Nintendo, suffered a stroke. As he had no other immediate successor, he asked Yamauchi to come immediately to Nintendo to assume the position of president. He had to leave Waseda University to do so. Yamauchi would only accept the position if he were the only family member working at Nintendo. Reluctantly, Yamauchi’s grandfather agreed, and died shortly thereafter. Under the agreement, his older cousin had to be fired. Due to his young age and total lack of any management experience, most employees did not take Yamauchi seriously and resented him. Soon after taking over, he had to deal with a strike by factory employees who expected him to cave in easily. Instead, he asserted his authority by firing many long-time employees who questioned his authority. He had the company name changed to Nintendo Karuta and established its new headquarters in Kyoto. Yamauchi led Nintendo in a "notoriously imperialistic style".[8] He was the sole judge of potential new products, and only a product that appealed to him and his keen instincts went on the market.[7][9][10]

Did Iwata have management/business experience before taking charge of Nintendo? Not to mention Iwata decided to make himself and the board take a paycut instead of firing Nintendo employees. Just because Iwata is not as skilled a businessman as others doesn't mean it would be a good idea to return to the days of Nintendo being ruled with an iron fist.

 

[atr0cious]

It's funny you would mention Yamauchi. You know, the guy who didn't play nor even particularly like games, and had very little interest in the nuances of their design. The guy who was a straight-laced businessman, as old-school zaibatsu as it gets in that regard.

You can have a "suit" in charge of a company without ruining the creative output or destroying the development environment. I mean, just so we're clear, Nintendo isn't some sort of new-age Bohemian art collective. They aren't even an "open plan" company like Valve. They're very much a stuffed-shirt, nose-to-the-grindstone Japanese corporation with hardcore work ethics and a rigid hierarchy. They already run on "suit logic".

I think people are more rejecting the western definition of a businessman. The ones like Mattrick, Yusef, Kaz, Harrison, and even Shu, who though Demon's Souls was a bad game. Suits who think mobile is the only answer, or tossing out half shod products because they know they can patch them. Iwata is a businessman, he just gives the consumer a little more credit than others.

 

[metalslimer]

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

Outside of Monolith and EAD Tokyo, it's probably the hardest it's ever been to get excited about what Nintendo has in store. Their complete abandonment/ half assed efforts toward half of their IPs has been disturbing. Of course, this is the way the rest of the industry has gone as well, so it's not likely to get any better.

 

[Chindogg]

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

I fully agree. I don't need Nintendo to be #1. I just need them to exist and make experiences that I enjoy.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Where is this magical line that separates "businessmen" from "developers"?

Am I to understand that if you are a developer you can never develop business acumen?

No, but I think it's a tough sell to say that someone like Miyamoto is in the senior management position he is now because of his business acumen, rather than it being a reward for his (admittedly hugely significant) contributions to the company in his development roles.

 

[Tenki]

A businessman wouldn't greenlight W101 or Bayonetta 2, so I don't want one running Nintendo if they can avoid it.

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

Yeah, this. He may not be a good businessman, but he's a developer and from the gaming side he's pretty good. I rather have him (or another game creator) rather than a businessman who only cares about profits over all.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I'm sticking to my (newly found) guns of Nintendo creating a "starter smartphone" for the 5-12 demographic. It will be primarily a gaming compatible device, but come with the basic internet (with heavy parental restrictions) and phone necessities. This way parents will always be able to reach their kids at all times, and little Jimmy or Susie won't be made fun of for being the only 3rd grader without a damn iPhone 26.

 

[Jomjom]

I'm sticking to my (newly found) guns of Nintendo creating a "starter smartphone" for the 5-12 demographic. It will be primarily a gaming compatible device, but come with the basic internet (with heavy parental restrictions) and phone necessities. This way parents will always be able to reach their kids at all times, and little Jimmy or Susie won't be made fun of for being the only 3rd grader without a damn iPhone 26.

This would be a pretty awesome product. Would definitely elevate some people's QoL.

 

[Scrawnton]

I'm sticking to my (newly found) guns of Nintendo creating a "starter smartphone" for the 5-12 demographic. It will be primarily a gaming compatible device, but come with the basic internet (with heavy parental restrictions) and phone necessities. This way parents will always be able to reach their kids at all times, and little Jimmy or Susie won't be made fun of for being the only 3rd grader without a damn iPhone 26.

this is never going to happen, ever. They would be better off sticking with gaming dedicated handheld devices like they are now.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Yeah, this. He may not be a good businessman, but he's a developer and from the gaming side he's pretty good. I rather have him (or another game creator) rather than a businessman who only cares about profits over all.

Like Hiroshi Yamauchi?

 

[metalslimer]

I'm sticking to my (newly found) guns of Nintendo creating a "starter smartphone" for the 5-12 demographic. It will be primarily a gaming compatible device, but come with the basic internet (with heavy parental restrictions) and phone necessities. This way parents will always be able to reach their kids at all times, and little Jimmy or Susie won't be made fun of for being the only 3rd grader without a damn iPhone 26.

This could be interesting if it was part of a line of other products. They could also have a non-smartphone version that would just play games for the rest of the market.

 

[Imperfected]

Did Iwata have management/business experience before taking charge of Nintendo? Not to mention Iwata decided to make himself and the board take a paycut instead of firing Nintendo employees. Just because Iwata is not as skilled a businessman as others doesn't mean it would be a good idea to return to the days of Nintendo being ruled with an iron fist.

He had experience within the company, managing projects and teams. There's a lot to recommend him to a higher management position in charge of creatives (like the one Miyamoto currently occupies), but less so to suggest he would have made a good CEO. That was Yamauchi's choice, though, and no one really ever questioned Yamauchi; presumably he taught (or at least thought he taught) Iwata enough about running the business before he recommended him.

I do think there's a happy medium. I don't think you need a Western-style corporate robber-baron to come in and hack-and-slash the company into profitability no matter what the price, but by the same token I don't think you need to go completely in the other direction and throw a Miyamoto-type into the hot seat. There's room in between for someone who respects the core business but also understands what has to be done to maintain profitability in a changing market.

 

[Nothing1016]

Nevermind. Would have been redundant since I all ready posted in Mario Kart thread. lol

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

this is never going to happen, ever. They would be better off sticking with gaming dedicated handheld devices like they are now.

But why is it so infeasible? The catch about being "babby's first smartphone" is that it would not have to be competitive. It wouldn't have to be spec'd toe-to-toe with the latest Galaxy or iPhone. It would be made using cheaper parts, and would serve as a child's introduction to smartphones. I would also imagine it would have very small buttons, and a concave pocket for a small analog stick, which would help retain the phone form factor.

I feel like that device would fit perfectly into Nintendo's current behavior and mantra to be a toy company for kids. However, the current climate and attitude Nintendo has towards smartphones in general probably stops them from even dwelling on the thought long enough to realize that they could help shape an entire demographic of phone users if they got there early enough.

This could be interesting if it was part of a line of other products. They could also have a non-smartphone version that would just play games for the rest of the market.

Exactly. For the more seasoned gamer, who still likes Nintendo handhelds. There would be a separate/cheaper line, that function only as a gaming handheld.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I fully agree. I don't need Nintendo to be #1. I just need them to exist and make experiences that I enjoy.

Even if it's for another console?

I think GAF would meltdown.

 

[Sandfox]

But why is it so infeasible? The catch about being "babby's first smartphone" is that it would not have to be competitive. It wouldn't have to be spec'd toe-to-toe with the latest Galaxy or iPhone. It would be made using cheaper parts, and would serve as a child's introduction to smartphones. I would also imagine it would have very small buttons, and a concave pocket for a small analog stick, which would help retain the phone form factor.

I feel like that device would fit perfectly into Nintendo's current behavior and mantra to be a toy company for kids. However, the current climate and attitude Nintendo has towards smartphones in general probably stops them from even dwelling on the thought long enough to realize that they could help shape an entire demographic of phone users if they got there early enough.

Exactly. For the more seasoned gamer, who still likes Nintendo handhelds. There would be a separate/cheaper line, that function only as a gaming handheld.

I've seen someone on GAF say that they should try a product like the Moto G.

 

[Entryhazard]

What do you think people meant by "catching a light in a bottle?" What you described is exactly what they meant. It's not easy to reproduce those conditions and circumstance, which is partially why the Wii U has failed to catch on.

Usually some detractors mean that the Wii adn DS were an unexpected lucky strike as if Nintendo didn't knew what he was doing even then instead of a well executed idea that unfortunately for them is not replicable again

 

[Here For The Free Feed]

DK (a mario spin off)

I think DK has paid enough dues to be considered more than a mario spin off these days.

plus, mario is a DK spin off not the other way around.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I'm curious for your explanation on the sharp decline of Wii sales, along with the rapid decline to purchase games with motion controls?

If you're going to lobby that the Wii's sales were not inflated by the fad of motion controls, can you explain to me where the 80+ million people who purchased Wii Sports are?

A fad doesn't usually last the length of a normal console cycle. The Wii became completely irrelevant in 2012, That's 5 years(Half a decade.).

Also those 100 million or so people who purchased the Wii are probably where their needs are being served. Not on a PS4, and not on an Xbox One, but the mobile market.

Nintendo failed to appeal to kids/families/casuals by trying to be a jack of all trades master of none(Why was Batman, and Aliens such a big deal to them in 2012? Why no exclusively touched based "Casual" games? Why no Wii Sports 3 at launch?), and it's biting their home console business in the ass.

 

[AniHawk]

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

i honestly expected them to go on and make a name for themselves as a profitable but niche developer of games i enjoyed after the gamecube. kind of like nihon falcolm except with their own hardware division as well.

 

[Version 3.0]

I can understand the idea of the "Nintendo Core" following them where ever they go. However, if one is going to suggest that Nintendo "go third party" why not on one of the dreaded mobile platforms or PC? Again, the family/casual/kid market doesn't exist on SONY, and MS's consoles. They'd gain nothing from being on an Xbox or Playstation.
Tbh, they'd gain nothing from dismantling their hardware business. None of these scenarios would make sense in the long run.

That's not remotely true, but you could argue it's a smaller / weaker market on their boxes, I suppose.

Anyway, that's actually a great reason to go that way. Why go into a saturated market with rampant piracy and minimal price points (mobile or PC), when there's a market similar to the one you're familiar with, but larger and with a portion you can potentially corner for yourself?

 

[bart64]

Aren't these losses still minuscule compared to what Sony or Microsoft has amounted over the years, and even just this year? Where was the doom and gloom when their last-gen consoles lost billions while Nintnedo was enjoying big profits?

Or maybe "Big Dog Stumbles" makes good financial news headlines.

 

[Mysterious]

Well, he seems to have a certain interest in Kimishima.......

He's 62, so it wouldn't be good for the long-term to groom him. Which is exactly why I agree with you in that he is likely Iwata's preference to succeed him, if necessary.

 

[Chindogg]

Even if it's for another console?

I think GAF would meltdown.

Part of the experience requires Nintendo hardware.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I'm curious for your explanation on the sharp decline of Wii sales, along with the rapid decline to purchase games with motion controls?

If you're going to lobby that the Wii's sales were not inflated by the fad of motion controls, can you explain to me where the 80+ million people who purchased Wii Sports are?

To put it simply:

1) Mostly 1 company spearheaded and innovated in motion gaming.
2) The rest of the players in the motion gaming arena just copied already stablished concepts and benefited from then.
3) That sharp decline matches exactly when the company started to drop support due to migrating resources for their next two platforms.
4) Motion sensing electronics are present in most gaming devices after the Wii and are heavily used in mobile devices. So how does that fit the definition of fad?
5) Have you heard of VR? Do you wonder what is the better suited input method for these type of interfaces?

80+ Million customers are playing with their mobile devices, using motion and touch screen controls.

 

[Nothing1016]

I have no idea.

Add this to Iwata's list of failures: he's groomed no suitable successor.

Who often does a CEO groom a successor anyways? Other then Steve Jobs to Tim Cook, I can't really remember any over the last ten years.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

That's not remotely true, but you could argue it's a smaller / weaker market on their boxes, I suppose.

Anyway, that's actually a great reason to go that way. Why go into a saturated market with rampant piracy and minimal price points (mobile or PC), when there's a market similar to the one you're familiar with, but larger and with a portion you can potentially corner for yourself?

That's my point, there is a tiny weak near irrelevant market for those kind of games on MS/SONY boxes. Why bother?
If they were to ever consider doing this, it would make more sense for Nintendo to start over and make games like Uncharted or GTA. Basically become "Capcom 2: Nintendo Edition" on those consoles.

 

[atrossity]

That's because those voting likely don't have a clue who the others are and what they are doing. Negativity/blame will always stop with the head honcho when it comes to shareholders...the buck always stops there...regardless of how badly everyone else might be doing.

right.. but the title CEO means that you do what you want and have the ULTIMATE decision. If his "cabinet" (or whoever these phantoms are that a lot of Nintendo fans seem to be using as a scapegoat) screws up, he needs to take responsibility and oust that person. Instead, he let the decisions happen that led to a decline of 25% of the company's profits in one year.

I am a firm believer that a business is made from the top down.

 

[Freezie KO]

I think Iwata is great. And every time I get a piece of Nintendo software under his executive management, it's an awesome piece of software. ::shrug:: I think his vision for Nintendo syncs with what I want out of them as a company, because I understand their position in the market place and their strengths as a creative house.

This is coming from my gaming side, by the way... clearly not my business one, heh.

This is the most conservative Nintendo has ever been with its software. Their sole experimentation has been with extremely shallow experiences, mostly aimed towards grandma.

If you expect nothing new from your core Nintendo software, then Iwata has been great. But they can be better without him.