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Will MS overtake Sony in North America now?

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It was my understanding that the gap in NA wasn't that big to begin with so it's possible that MS can regain and start getting ahead but it'll probably be neck and neck unless Sony starts sprinting. The rest of the world though it's Sonys to lose it seems.
 
Who knows, the PS3 had a horrible start too and look at it now, tables can change.

Yep. And the OP is only talking about North America. Other parts of the world, no, MS will definitely not overtake Sony. But NA, or the US specifically, was MS territory last gen. So it's not so hard to believe.
 
I like how some are ignoring the ability to drop the price for ps4. If xbox suddenly explodes sony would have to react. This is their chance to take NA. They may never get another chance. Next year they can drop the price and have the price advantage again. This year they have on lock down. All major games will be advertised as ps4 exclusives. SO, QB, DC, and the order will be irrelevant compared to the big franchises. Those are all new ips. If titanfall didn't do anything those four will do nothing for both consoles.
You're assuming they can drop price so easily in the somewhat unlikely event that MS blasts past them here. Given their sales known up to now, there's zero reason to drop even if MS outsells them in NA. They can simply be happy with being close and focus on gaining worldwide in other territories, like they did last gen. They're not in a position to sacrifice profitability for marketshare that doesn't justify the loss.
 

boingball

Member
MS now has a better chance. The price of the two consoles is the same and the feature set is the same as well (with Gold now being changed to PS+). If MS had come out of the gate with this, they would be probably in the lead, since most 360 owners would have taken the natural upgrade path. But MS lost a lot of early adaptors and that could lead to a snowball effect. Also it does not help, that games on the PS4 have a better performance. Halo could be a system seller, but is not coming before 2015. And by that time Sony studios might be able to deliver some software too.

I believe the US will stay a battleground, but the PS4 will win it. The rest of the world is still a landslide for the PS4, but for MS the numbers might be better than the 360 in Japan (and I think that is what the Xbox One, the All-in-One Entertainment Center is selling currently in Contintental Europe).
 

Sakura

Member
I did. And thanks for the correction.

So my point stands, the lead can flip just quickly as it was built now that the price difference is gone and MS will start rolling out more exclusives that appeal to mainstream US gamers.

I'd love to be wrong, but Sony's failure to get any shooter exclusives on par with Halo or Gears, as well as the biggest chunk of the CoD base being 360 fanboy types, is tough for them to overcome without a price difference IMO.

When is Halo 5 coming out? When is the new Gears coming out? How large will the gap already be by the time those games come out? I think you're overselling those franchises a bit. Smash Bros and Mario Kart sell gangbusters in the US too. But nobody expects them to turn the Wii U around. Many of Sony's first party games sell quite well in the US. They aren't going to get outsold by the XBO just because they don't have a Halo or Gears.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
No

Does anyone have the current gap numbers in NA only ?

as of Mar ~380K
if doom and gloom is to be believed, we'll be increasing that by ~100K come Thursday.

granted on its own that number isn't too insurmountable. But you have to remember that much of that gap was shored up at launch. It's widened every month of 2014 usually by 25-30% monthly.
 

Servbot24

Banned
Yes, unless Sony counters with:

i975uUhIFDZmU.gif


:)

These games wouldn't actually sell that much. 5 million total between them maybe.

They would garner huge good will though!
 

kuroneco

Member
Is that only me? but I feel that all these quick changes only cause confusions among consumers which put them into the wait mode. If it already reduced price once, who can say it won't do it again in a short period of time? Normal consumers have no knowledge about kinect or less, it is still called xbox one...
 

Nafai1123

Banned
I'm very skeptical it will make a meaningful difference. The Titanfall bundle at $450 still didn't propel them to number 1 in March and that was a better value. Sony has the momentum of the core, but it's possible that could change at E3 depending on what is revealed.
 
Nope. Kinect + Xbox One at $399 is what I think would easily beat the PS4. Xbox One at $399 with no Kinect does not convince me of that possibility nearly as much. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the PS4 did even better now by comparison with Kinect out of the picture.

I've said this same thing on here before, and now MS has gone and finally made a decision that I don't exactly think is the best.
 
It's true about most consumers not really caring that much about hardware differences, but it's also not a guarantee that the weaker one will come out on top, either. Once price is squared away, it's always all about software and marketing. Good thing is, both are now in a position to fight it out all generation long instead of seeing things go lopsided in a way that doesn't really help enough smaller developers succeed well enough and create a thriving independent console ecosystem where anyone going without a deal can more likely last into a second or third project, leading into a possible renaissance of the mid-tier developer who would be able to feed the demands and desires of console folks who need more content and more polish than most smaller devs can manage. These two doing well helps everyone not exclusive to either.

*cue dumb 'NES/PS2 dominating gave us awesome games' posts*
Can you explained the 'dumbness' (lol) behind those posts? Like, what makes that a 'dumb' statement?
 

orochi91

Member
Out of curiosity, how much money does Microsoft save by taking the Kinect out?

At $399 I imagine they are making a profit on every console sold, as opposed
to the losses Sony takes per machine.
 

pestul

Member
I think it is all about the games now. I believe it has a chance with the new direction Phil Spencer is taking the division. I'm sure he's only wishing they could somehow 180 on the system specs too though..
 
as of Mar ~380K
if doom and gloom is to be believed, we'll be increasing that by ~100K come Thursday.

granted on its own that number isn't too insurmountable. But you have to remember that much of that gap was shored up at launch. It's widened every month of 2014 usually by 25-30% monthly.

Damn I didn't think it could be that large and ms has nothing significant coming out until later in the year right ?
 
It's pretty much done for xbone. They've lost so much mindshare and goodwill, it's going to be tough.

This again? Dude they are only marginally behind in NA and the rest of the world, they aren't that far ahead either. Nothing that can't be undone. Especially, if Sony does nothing, like some in here are implying they should.
 
I can definitely see it boosting Xbox One sales, perhaps even reaching parity with the PS4 in the US sales wise. But I don't think that it will surpass the PS4's LTD sales.

If the Xbox One is $399 in Canada as well, undercutting the PS4 by $50, then it might get interesting sales wise for the Canadian market.
 

Sakura

Member
Out of curiosity, how much money does Microsoft save by taking the Kinect out?

At $399 I imagine they are making a profit on every console sold, as opposed
to the losses Sony takes per machine.

I believe the APU in the XBO is actually more expensive than Sony's thanks to the esram (correct me if I'm wrong), so if they are making a profit it's probably not much.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Nobody does. Except TLoU Remastered I guess...

not sure about MS. Sony has The Order 1886 and Driveclub. Word on the former is ok, but nothing at this second to believe it will be more than an extremely solid first party title (i.e. not blowing the doors off the joint). Driveclub is way hit or miss.

In Sony's corner though is Destiny which is co-marketed by Sony/PS4, and Batman Arkham Knight which has always sold more on/marketed with Playstation.

On that same note, I'm sure the new CoD will be heavily marketed with XBONE, likely as will Madden 15.
 

AU Tiger

Member
1st party titles from MS will dictate if they can take over. If they do, I suspect it will not be this year since I'm not aware of many must have xbox exclusive titles that will be released this year that look good enough to steal sony's thunder.

If anything, hopefully microsoft will announce a lot of 1st party titles at E3 and those will start hitting early 2015.
 

Kyoufu

Member
All things considering, isn't Xbone not that far behind the PS4 in North America? I don't have LTD numbers on hand but the gap is no more than 300k right?
 

le.phat

Member
This again? Dude they are only marginally behind in NA and the rest of the world, they aren't that far ahead either. Nothing that can't be undone. Especially, if Sony does nothing, like some in here are implying they should.

Sony took microsoft's cake in the only two regions that gave a shit about xbox in the first place. Did you see last month's sales ? When the bone was getting dumped and had it biggest release of the year ? Right.
 

shwimpy

Member
not sure about MS. Sony has The Order 1886 and Driveclub. Word on the former is ok, but nothing at this second to believe it will be more than an extremely solid first party title (i.e. not blowing the doors off the joint). Driveclub is way hit or miss.

In Sony's corner though is Destiny which is co-marketed by Sony/PS4, and Batman Arkham Knight which has always sold more on/marketed with Playstation.

On that same note, I'm sure the new CoD will be heavily marketed with XBONE, likely as will Madden 15.
I think he meant summer. Those are all fall/winter games.
 
Can you explained the 'dumbness' (lol) behind those posts? Like, what makes that a 'dumb' statement?

Those situations were different, fundamentally, and aren't likely to be universally good for everyone this gen where there are barely any third party publishers left and those that are still around are shifting their weight away from consoles even as some proclaim a renewed commitment to core gamers...lip service is all it is until those products are out on the market. The awesome games that came from those two generations, in particular, came from a set of mid-tier developers who are almost extinct in this one. Who is going to make those awesome games now? Are those smaller developers left to take up the task of filling out the release lists going to find success given that console gamers are so spoiled by AAA machine that is on the verge of total breakdown? Pointing to the past generations where someone dominated so heavily with awesome software isn't going deep enough to see that the creators of those games have no real ecosystem today. They are incompatible with today's climate as evidenced by most of them being dead and buried.
 
May NPD belongs to Sony now (not like it wasn't going to anyway). June will be interesting to see, but I imagine we will have a repeat of March where everyone - including most PS4 fans - admit that Xbox One will sell more and then it doesn't.

The silent killer is how much of a pain it is to use the OS with a controller. Sure, it's smart that Kinect is no longer a part of the system, but that OS is built around Kinect from top to bottom.

While price drop is certainly a step in the right direction, Xbox One is fighting and losing many, many other battles in NA. The magic bullet Titanfall (given away for free, no less) didn't win March for them. The (much needed) improvements coming to Live Gold are simply going to be seen as playing catch'up. The mindshare still belongs to PS4. The positive image still belongs to PS4. At best, Xbox One is "that console that was really, really evil but now they're slowly improving it". Doesn't seem like that's enough to make it race past the PS4. Playing catch'up never makes you beat your competitor. Ever. Xbox One needs to be seen as superior, and that's a long checklist of empty boxes that has yet to be filled.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
I think he meant summer. Those are all fall/winter games.

Oh. Well aside from co-marketing deals in August (Destiny and Madden) then no, neither system has much to crow about.

All things considering, isn't Xbone not that far behind the PS4 in North America? I don't have LTD numbers on hand but the gap is no more than 300k right?

Should be about 10% behind at this moment (~380K). However the monthly gap has been widening where this Thursday should be significant, and because of today's announcement should be absolutely abysmal for May. $399 XBONE could very well be looking at a 500-600K disadvantage by the time it hits store shelves putting it at much more than 10% behind PS4.
 
Packed-in Kinect was a huge turn-off, so much so that even if the next Halo proved the best thing ever it still might not have moved some to get an Xbox One. Now...I'd say it is an even chance between Xbox One and PS4. For the same price, one could reasonably prefer one or the other based on exclusives, controller preference, power is close enough, etc.
 

Kuro

Member
It's true about most consumers not really caring that much about hardware differences, but it's also not a guarantee that the weaker one will come out on top, either. Once price is squared away, it's always all about software and marketing. Good thing is, both are now in a position to fight it out all generation long instead of seeing things go lopsided in a way that doesn't really help enough smaller developers succeed well enough and create a thriving independent console ecosystem where anyone going without a deal can more likely last into a second or third project, leading into a possible renaissance of the mid-tier developer who would be able to feed the demands and desires of console folks who need more content and more polish than most smaller devs can manage. These two doing well helps everyone not exclusive to either.

*cue dumb 'NES/PS2 dominating gave us awesome games' posts*

Cheapest development and largest variety of excellent games eras from single console dominations is dumb?
 

Piggus

Member
The race now is much closer than most of GAF thinks it is.

It's possible, ask after E3 when we see games/bundles being offered.

Or maybe consumers aren't stupid and they'll continue to buy the better system like they've been doing all along. Even with the Titanfall Bundle for $450 (which made the console LESS than $399 WITH Kinect) they still lost.
 

pestul

Member
Apparently with the kinect-less sku @$399 many believe that bundles won't be happening..

I'm sure there will be $399 XB1 + Game + Gold trial very soon afterwards, if not straight away.
 

tthomas4155

Neo Member
I may be in the minority here, but this just further sours my perception of Microsoft.For the record, I'm not at all surprised that they removed Kinect, but I somehow still am surprised that they did it so soon. I am absolutely SICK and TIRED of the lack of identity and lack of commitment that Microsoft has consistently shown the entire time they been in the gaming business. It really came to a head with the X360. You guys remember right? At X360 launch: HDMI is not neccessary\1080p is not necessary\Blu-Ray is not necessary\Motion controls are not necessary etc. Within 2 years, there is suddenly a X360 with HDMI, 1080p support, and a failed HD-DVD drive. Why? All because Sony/Nintendo pushed those things.

If you throw down our throats that your product is something, then by GOD stand by it. You spent 4+ years conceiving what your platform would be. In that time, you must have come up with something you believed in. Yet the product started to fundamentally change before you even launch. What is this now? 180 #64? You want to deliver a forward thinking, digital only, kinect integrated entertainment box, then great. Tell me why that is valuable to me. Instead they basically say "Yeah we got it wrong. You're right. Nevermind. We match our competition now so come back to us again." Since they've literally changed everything about their initial vision, how can a consumer believe in their product?

It's clear that MS doesn't collectively know what they want the XB1 to be. All they know is that they don't want Sony to win. It's been that way since the very beginning and is the sole reason why Microsoft even entered the console space. I know many developers that have seen this time and time again. Devs that for example have been pushing MS to allow for self publishing on Xbox since before the X360 days and they never budged. Now all of sudden, seemingly overnight they love Indies and reverse many of the restrictions (like self publishing) that they rejected for over 10 years? Really? Why? Oh, because the Indies were flocking to Sony. Nevermind what the devs want, we just can't let Sony have them.

To answer the thread question: No, I don't think it will be enough to give them the lead overall but it's possible in the US. That's the disturbing part. That their strategy might actually work. Sad indeed.

IMO, Microsoft's problem (in gaming) is that they don't stand for ANYTHING. They are constantly reacting to their competition and public perception. They have been consistent with that and this is just another example. I mean seriously, you supposed spend years designing an entire platform with a 10 year vision with Kinect as an integral part. You feed us that for the better part of a year (including 6 months before release). Now after only 6 months post release, you change what you said was an integral part of your vision and overall design just like that. Why? Because XB1 is failing? No it's not. Again, XB1 is the fastest selling Xbox console ever. And @$500, it's also the most profitable console for MS ever. That's called good business. Oh, Sony is kicking our butts so forget the last 4 years, let's just do what their doing and hopefully catch up. Jesus stand for something MS! I feel bad for the early adopters who actually bought into the vision of Kinect and what the XB1 experience/vision will be. Can't believe a word they say.

Oh and before people say that they are listening to their fans, you are silly to think that they are doing this for fans. If MS was so interested in the the fans (more specifically the gamer fan), then they wouldn't have made any of these design and business decisions in the first place that they needed to 180 away from. If they were in touch and cared what the gamers wanted, it was obvious that it wasn't any of those things before the XB1 even launched.
 

orochi91

Member
This again? Dude they are only marginally behind in NA and the rest of the world, they aren't that far ahead either. Nothing that can't be undone. Especially, if Sony does nothing, like some in here are implying they should.

To be frank, Sony merely has to be at least on par (or close) to XB1 sales in NA
to blow it out the water because internationally the XB1 is done. That right there
is already a huge loss of mind/market share considering the near 20 million
lead the X360 had over the PS3 in NA.

And they aren't that far ahead at the moment since it's only been 6 months into
the gen, coupled with the fact that they can't seem to make enough PS4 consoles
for Europe and Asia. The gap will be immense once it is all said and done.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
When is Halo 5 coming out? When is the new Gears coming out? How large will the gap already be by the time those games come out? I think you're overselling those franchises a bit. Smash Bros and Mario Kart sell gangbusters in the US too. But nobody expects them to turn the Wii U around. Many of Sony's first party games sell quite well in the US. They aren't going to get outsold by the XBO just because they don't have a Halo or Gears.

Halo 2 Anniversary and CoD Advanced Warfare this fall will probably bring in a lot of the 360 shooter fan crowd. Most of the 360 CoD lovers I know (personally and forum folk) are still loyal to Xbox. Anecdotal of course, but that's a big market that was very loyal to 360 and Xbox Live for online gaming.

I could see those two games getting rid of the gap if Sony doesn't get Uncharted 4 out. Stuff like The Order probably won't move a lot of consoles since few new IPs do. Again, I'd love to be wrong, but I have no faith in my fellow American gamers now that the price gap is gone.
 

Eusis

Member
Closer, perhaps, and had there been the sort of exclusive skewing we saw on the SNES/Genesis it'd probably help loads, but we aren't in that period anymore and Sony's gotten to set the town. Still, most of the time this happened the console in the lead had a year to establish itself whereas both launched at roughly the same time, so there's still that possibility.
 

meanspartan

Member
Probably not, Sony hit the ground running and Microsoft is undoing their entire vision just to catch up.

But, the odds aren't as against them as they were 24 hours ago, so that's something. I could totally see this as another Ps3/360 style race, where one console pulls ahead and the other plays catch up, and thanks to a lot of good exclusives and some price drops, does manage to catch up in the last few years of the generation.
 

ronito

Member
If sony does nothing, then MS has a bit of a chance (albeit a small one). But I don't expect Sony to sit on their laurels.

Again, this goes to show what a total cluster the R&D of the Xbox1 was. they should've had this SKU from day 1.
 
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