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Will MS overtake Sony in North America now?
- Thread starter Ricky_R
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1000 Branches
Banned
Possibly. People keep quoting the example of the PS3 to talk about how it is impossible to come back later in the generation, but those very same people keep forgetting Microsoft is acting much faster than Sony ever did- the PS3 was not a viable proposition for anybody until the PS3 Slim hit in 2009, three years after the PS3's initial launch, and four years after the 360's. Microsoft has acted much quicker with the Xbox One- they may yet have a legitimate shot at the gold, at the very least in North America.
HI. BILLY MAYS HERE
Banned
I think you have it backwards
I think Ms was getting a small profit $15-$30 or breaking even at $499.
Aurean_Mentat
Member
Honestly, I think anyone wanting to compare this situation to the PS2 vs Xbox situation is forgetting the hilariously dominant position the PS2 was in. The PS2 had a crapton of 1st and 3rd party exclusives, coded for an engine that made it hard to port games over to the other consoles at the time.
In the current marketplace, Xbox One is in a weaker position overall as far as exclusive games. Titanfall was not an Xbox One exclusive, it was an Xbox One CONSOLE exclusive (big difference).
A lot of the really big games that come out on the Xbox One also, for the most part, come out on PC. This was really true during the Xbox 360 era, and I think that in addition to the massive PR screwups that Microsoft did early on, they need to find a way to communicate that value (because the strength of Microsoft first parties doesn't really impress me, or a lot of the people I know, all that much, especially when compared to Nintendo/Sony first/second party).
Its all about exclusive experiences (i.e. What can I do on this console that I can't do anywhere else?). I've talked to a few people who have the same feeling about the Vita (I mean, takeway the PC ports, PSP/PS1 games, redone/remastered versions of PS2 games and the games that are also on PS3, and not that much is left, at least, for me).
It's going to be really hard to recapture the momentum with the hardcore (as they either have one already, or know enough to where the fact that the PS4 is objectively more powerful does matter to them). As far as casuals, the Microsoft PR machine made enough messups to where it turned off a lot of people, who aren't necessarily invested enough to reinvestigate it later, unless a compelling reason is offered.
So in short, it will probably staunch the bleeding, but probably not reverse the very real damage that has already been done (it could happen, but not likely unless Sony does something really big to screw it up).
how do you figure ?
Not sure you really know what is going on with profit margins on both machines.
MightyHedgehog
Member
NES was totally different and cannot be replicated so easily when 1980s Ninty isn't there to strongarm the biggest Japanese publishers and developers into exclusivity agreements and enforce a lock on the market with illegal tactics of price fixing and airtight and absurd contracts limiting if not preventing the emergence of competition. In those days, the vast majority of the best-selling software was Japanese.
PS2 had nearly every single western and Japanese developer on it, where most of the successful games were still from Japan...when there was a huge Japanese console market to sell to.
Today, where is the successful Japanese presence outside of first party? Hell, where is the console market in Japan? Today, development is as cheap as it ever has been, discounting expectations of the average consumer and what that does to budgets, both production and marketing. The playing field is so much more open and consoles represent a fraction of the larger market that many if not most console game makers are now targeting. There's no way a console domination of that type is going to work as well as in the past.
RedHotChimiChanga
Banned
Sony still has more and wider selection of games.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Wait until the Halo and Gears of War juggernaut appears.
katsubento
Member
Nope. I don't think price parity is enough for them to take the lead. And what if Sony undercuts them at E3? While it's too early to tell, I don't think it's enough to say they will now take the lead.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
That was true last gen as well, and the 360 dominated in the US as it had more exclusives in genres that sell consoles to the mainstream here--namely online shooters.
So they could certainly pull ahead here again for the same reason, though the gap will be MUCH closer than last gen either way.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Sakura
Member
How much did Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary sell? Why is CoD AW going to bring in a bunch of new XBO owners? The gap is currently about 400k, it could be 500k after we get April numbers, and 600k after we get May numbers. I don't really see those two games you mentioned changing much, especially considering CoD is multiplat.
There is also of course the possibility that by the time a big game like Halo 5 rolls around, Sony has already dropped the price to 349 or 299.
Personally, I think if MS wants to best Sony in the US at price parity, it needs more than a couple shooter franchises as exclusives. Either that, or they need to be at a lower price.
This. When the Kinect was bundled it with XBONE, it was at least arguably ambiguous which system was the better value. Kinect was difficult to put a price on.
Now, we have two systems at the exact same price with pretty much the same functionality, except one is definitively and quantifiably weaker than the other. $350 would have made more sense.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Both those franchises are on a decline. In the last several years, Minecraft has done more to sell the Xbox brand than Halo, Gears, Forza, and Fable combined. (EDIT: to clarify, I'm saying that from the time Minecraft: 360 Edition launched, it has sold more 360s than those sold due to Halo, Gears, etc from that same time. Obviously, above-mentioned franchises have sold more than Minecraft when combined).
Microsoft needs a 'Minecraft' (not referring to the upcoming port, of course). They need a game that spreads like wildfire and it's only available on their system. At best, Halo and Gears and Forza and Fable will simply capture a portion of their previous fanbases, but the peak of those franchises has been reached.
And that's why Sony's position is significantly stronger. With their nearly-obsessed dedicated to getting indies on PSN, it is more likely (based on simply numbers) that the next 'Minecraft' will appear on PS4 and not on XBox One.
Nope, sorry, there is simply no way for them to regain the mindshare lost since the launch. People are still angry about the used games debacle, and also, they made it clear they could change back to that same program at any time without warning. There's a noose over your head if you buy Xbone.
mario_O
Member
I don't think the 360 dominated last gen only because of the Halos and Gears, it also had LIVE and third-party games performed better on their system. But this time they're competing with PS+ and a more powerful machine.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Maybe, and fair point on price. Exclusives wise that's really all they had last gen. Those games move consoles here, as does the reputation for having the better online gaming set up, etc.
Like I said I'd love to be wrong. I just have no faith in the taste of my fellow americans given the crap that tops the charts in gaming, music, movies etc.
It's true I have no idea lol
I'm putting together what I've seen posted.
From the link provided in the last page MS seems to have saved $75
(approx.). This, coupled with the profit made while Kinect was already
included, will perhaps shortly cover the R&D cost of Kinect.
From what other posters have said over the past few months, PS4 was
losing out on every machine by around $60, hence why people were saying
that a PS+ subscription and/or purchase of a game will cover their per machine
loss.
I'm just thinking aloud at this point haha
Is a loooong time to wait for your saviour.
They need to price it below PS4 to be revelant. Before, the higher price was masked with the added Kinect. I think this is actually worse off... at the same price only the exclusives make a difference, the PS4 is just better hardware.
I think everyone forgets... SONY hasn't had to react to anything yet, and still they don't have to.
I think everyone forgets... SONY hasn't had to react to anything yet, and still they don't have to.
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
There are plenty of good appetizers coming before the entrees
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/08/sony-cuts-60gb-ps3-price-to-499-new-599-80gb-model-to-hit-nor/
One whole month quicker. November to July versus November to June
I agree. I bought the last Halo but played it less than any Halo before it. The multiplayer numbers show a huge drop over time as well.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Of course. And they've lost the better performing multiplats which could hurt.
I get the sense that Live is still perceived as the better online community/interface despite PSN improvements. Some brand loyalty there from people who gamed online a ton on 360.
silver.tongue
Member
I hate reactions threads because they are usually very stupid.
That said, this one is actually a very good subject.
Americans are very price sensitive.
Getting a Xbone + Kinect at $399 would be huge and could sway things.
Getting a raw Xbone at $349 would also be huge.
Getting a raw Xbone over a PS4 at the same price, I believe will not be enough to change the current situation, but it will keep things interesting for a long time (as in MS might win a few NPDs in big releases months).
That said, this one is actually a very good subject.
Americans are very price sensitive.
Getting a Xbone + Kinect at $399 would be huge and could sway things.
Getting a raw Xbone at $349 would also be huge.
Getting a raw Xbone over a PS4 at the same price, I believe will not be enough to change the current situation, but it will keep things interesting for a long time (as in MS might win a few NPDs in big releases months).
More importantly that's catering to an established base. Quite a few Souls fans came in via Dark Souls on Xbox (or so I'd think with all those Xbox videos/screens out there) while most people who want to stick with Halo at most are waiting until Halo actually shows up. It's like buying a Nintendo console for Mario or Zelda really, while something like Xenoblade or X are, well, X factors (though I think Project Beast would be more properly EFFECTIVE...)
I think it's that the sales gap in North America isn't as significant as the global picture, and that's with it having had a price disadvantage alongside the bad press from right before release. That much I think makes sense. Assuming it means they'll steamroll anyone now that the price has been addressed is oversimplifying it.
Nope, because it's not the only problem Xbox One had. Now it's same price, but weaker power. They need to establish their Games for Gold is equal to the value PS+ offers, which they are just maybe starting to do barely. And they need to end the last of their damaging policies regarding ID@Xbox (if they didn't reverse that too while I was working), because while that doesn't necessarily equate to automatic consumer rejection, it does equal less developer support, which means less potential quality games to attract customers. They need to show a series of games that will demonstrate it's worth that downside, and while I think their lineup is compelling, I don't think it's there yet to disassociate with the positive brand value PS4 has built now.
That said, I think it will have a nice boost, and will have several months of very close sales with PS4, if not beating it for a month or two.
That said, I think it will have a nice boost, and will have several months of very close sales with PS4, if not beating it for a month or two.
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
Nobody I talk to understands fully what the deal with the Xbone is. PS4 will likely win.
So not buying what you prefer = "stupid"? Okay. People are going all out today.
Don't agree once you start cutting people will sit on fence until you cut again and again. They just let everyone know it was greed in the first place. Don't think this will happen at all. After initial bump this has a chance to backfire in a race to the bottom.
Y0j1mb0
Member
I hope it's very close between the two, I've always loved Sony's emphasis on the gamers and I love Microsoft's renewed attempts to win back that audience too, so I wish them and Phil the best. They still need to make changes but I'll be picking one up sooner or later, especially now there's a Kinect-less SKU. Such a shame the previous regime put them in this position. It was a disaster.
Uno Venova
Banned
I would bet on it, they've already been close overall so far, only a difference of a few hundred thousand, over time this should close it and I wouldn't be surprised if it overtook.
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
PeregrinSe7en
Member
nope
That banned source wouldn't happen to be Chartz would it?
The Mad Draklor
Member
The XBone might start catching up momentarily, but I think the PS4 will still lead by a narrow margin. The announcement of the Kinect-less SKU is a huge slap to the face to the early adopters and the XBone now has no selling points. Right now, it's a weaker version of the PS4 with the same pricetag. Microsoft will get those consumers who were holding off, but once all of them will have gotten their consoles, what then? Sony still has a much larger team of 1st party devs. Multiplats are and will still be better on the PS4. It'll take more than just taking out the Kinect for the XBone to catch up.
If they have a better fall lineup i wouldn't bet against it. If Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Halo 2 Anniversary and Forza Horizon 2 all hit and Sony only has The Order and Driveclub this holiday then yes. Something tells me Sony has at least one other AAA game coming this holiday though.
Are you sure they aren't talking PS3?
Here is the VentureBeat article that states that the XBO costs $471 to make (with Kinect) and the PS4 costs $381. Sony is not losing money.
Metalingus5150
Member
It could and it couldn't.
lol
lol
Memorabilia
Member
Nope.
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