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Square Enix sends cease and desist letter to FF Type 0 translation group
- Thread starter BlackBuzzard
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Exactly what I came here to say. The translation is easy to obtain (I already have it) so a cease and desist makes no sense.
artsi
Member
This seems likely with the current information. Well, you reap what you sow. They knew what was coming.
akidnamededdy
Banned
So is it pretty much a given that the fan translation team were somehow tipped off about SE's planned E3 announcement and that's why they surprise launched the patch months ahead of schedule?
Because most likely SE was telling them to cut their shit out before they released it. Many of us, including myself protected this.
The timing was just too convenient for them not to be, imo.
If so, it wasn't common knowledge within the team.
veritassin
Banned
They should be paying these people, not threatening to sue them.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Only because of the Vita numbers.
Again: Sky in his blog does not mention a C & D letter he talks about "threats and false accusations "
Why even bother doing this now that the patch has already been released? Is Square unaware of how the internet works? Do they think they can make the millions of copies of the patch that people have already downloaded and hosted elsewhere disappear? Not to mention that they're not even releasing the official version for the same system as the version that can use the patch. Making your company look stupid and shitty is literally the only thing this accomplishes.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Even fucking Nintendo didn't send a C&D for the MOTHER 3 fan translation, and that one was led by one of its employees. smh
Which one? The one that was taken to E3 in an attempt to sell an engine or the one that was being promoted around the same time that the DS port with new content was being released.
I still don't believe that they were C&D'd originally, because there's very little legal basis for that (if any). However, I think the team made a mistake by distributing copyrighted data with the patch, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's what SE got them on. It came up as a concern when the patch came out about even letting people link it here.
akidnamededdy
Banned
You don't think Nintendo would have sent one if a US version of Mother 3 was announced?
This is shitty but it is what it is. They pretty much have to do it. The timing is admittedly off but (insert Versus XIII joke here).
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
That's definitely a possibility but was it even possible to release a translation patch of this nature that did not contain copyrighted material ? I mean it was not a mistake because it was not an option not to include copyrighted material in the patch. And square used this technicality to force Sky into taking down the patch.
Devil's advocate: Sending a C&D has merit because a game's script is copyrighted content and distributing a translated version of it is not 100% protected, legally speaking.
In practice, it doesn't mean that SE is being smart or reasonable. Fan translations are often an indication that there's a market for a localized version of a game that isn't being served. Because of the way most fan translation groups take a stance against piracy, publishers often turn a blind eye.
Squeenix's course of action here... It's crappy. They dragged their feet for so long on localizing this game, and when they finally did act it was to the exclusion of the original version, and now they're spiting the community that helped indicate that the interest was there.
In practice, it doesn't mean that SE is being smart or reasonable. Fan translations are often an indication that there's a market for a localized version of a game that isn't being served. Because of the way most fan translation groups take a stance against piracy, publishers often turn a blind eye.
Squeenix's course of action here... It's crappy. They dragged their feet for so long on localizing this game, and when they finally did act it was to the exclusion of the original version, and now they're spiting the community that helped indicate that the interest was there.
artsi
Member
It's not about that, it doesn't matter at this point and they know it. It's just a display of power really. Even if they didn't send the C&D before release they have to do something to show shareholders that they protect their IP, especially now that they are releasing the HD version.
And if they did send the C&D but it was ignored the message they want to send next will be clear: you should have listened, now it's lawsuit time.
Absoludacrous
Member
I'm surprised that in a post-Kickstarter era, people still think that Chrono game would have happened even if SE hadn't stepped in.
Also, for all the crap people give them about going after fan projects, seems like they've made it a point to leave fan translations alone aside from this case. Even regarding Chrono Trigger alone, there's a several complete CT retranslation patches right out in the open, and they've never (publicly) gone after them.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Lightning Returns was released on as many platforms as FFX|X-2 HD Remaster. In the US, FFX HD PS3 outsold LR PS3+360 too:
FFX|X-2 HD Remaster: 276k (PS3)
Lightning Returns: 74k (360), 139k (PS3)
It does.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I think it was all due to the method used to merge the discs. He could have not merged the discs, or required both in order to merge them and create the patched iso. But I don't know the technical details so I could be wrong.
If they indeed released game code or ignored a C and D, then SE should not be completely portrayed as this absolute villain here. No way shape or form blameless but...
charlequin
Banned
Well, that tends to point at a narrower reason for actually issuing the C&D. Typically, fan translation projects are extremely scrupulous about redistributing copyrighted material in their patch files -- although technically their translated text is a derivative work, the typical fan patch contains none of the original untranslated content and has no value on its own -- and zealously police any attempts to distribute pre-patched ROMs or to link to ROMs in any context related to the hosting of the patch.
In the case of this translation, however, the patcher (presumably just to make things easier for the devs and the users) contains huge swathes of the game's audio and video data, which it writes out directly to the patched file (with subtitles, in the case of the video files.) That pretty much constitutes distributing copyrighted material, which both puts a C&D on much firmer legal ground and makes the company more likely to issue one. If we assume this is the reason they got one, the timing actually makes sense: SE wouldn't have been able to C&D them about distributing video files in their patch until the patch was out and someone at SE downloaded and examined it.
Aeana and I talked about this quite a bit when the patch came out and we were both predicting that this exact choice could get them in trouble. Seems like it happened!
Who's interest are they serving here? Them doing this just gave it more attention and at worst lost a few sales due to making people salty over this boneheaded decision. What is the upside to them doing this? Do they think this will help them sell more copies? If this is a "moral of the story" type decision, it's dumb as hell, due to how long they dragged their feet. Well congrats square for giving it more attention.
After taking a closer look at the patch, I think you're on to something. Didn't it make it to where even if you only had one UMD iso, it would patch the whole game together has one iso? That sounds like trouble right there. Maybe not as black and white as I originally thought. Good call to you and Aeana.
Congrats to you for not reading anything other than the OP.
charlequin
Banned
This is pretty doubtful to me. What exactly would it have escalated to? SE could easily get this patch pulled from hosting without even talking to the team, but just as the team suggested beforehand it'd be challenging to take them to court in any serious fashion.
There is literally nothing to suggest that the Crimson Echoes C&D was real. The whole thing perfectly matched the pattern of someone who invents a C&D to get out of a fan project without having to answer questions or get hounded by people afterwards, just like the dude who invented one for 7th Dragon.
You mean the fact that the download has some code from the original game in it? How does that change anything? It's already out there, and Square showed no interest until they announced their release. So, you think this will actually help Square in any capacity?
charlequin
Banned
No, that's totally correct. If the patcher required both discs and/or a pre-merged two-disc file to work, it could have been distributed with only delta information for the videos, and thereby avoided distributing any of the copyrighted content directly (and also been available in a much smaller package....)
The legality and practicality of actually stopping a fan translation project that only provides deltas from original ROMs is extremely murky and no one's ever actually done it with anything but stuff like day-zero Pokemon menu patches. If the team is distributing directly copied material from the original source, it puts SE on dramatically firmer footing and makes it much more likely that they C&D on the general principle of halting distribution of their own direct content.
Silvawuff
Member
They're pretty late to the party on this.
I don't proclaim to be an expert on copyright law, but don't they have to C&D to protect their own copyright? It doesn't really matter if it's "out in the wild," they have to legally pursue any entity directly violating their copyright or they could forfeit their own.
Either way the fan translation is fantastic. I've enjoyed it, I appreciate their effort, and I plan to purchase the western localization of this game when it's available.
I don't proclaim to be an expert on copyright law, but don't they have to C&D to protect their own copyright? It doesn't really matter if it's "out in the wild," they have to legally pursue any entity directly violating their copyright or they could forfeit their own.
Either way the fan translation is fantastic. I've enjoyed it, I appreciate their effort, and I plan to purchase the western localization of this game when it's available.
That only applies to material not in use. Square cant lose material they are using because someone uses source data for a fan translation.
That is just nice Square, telling the your fans who worked tirelessly to bring a game you IGNORED for years to the states and when they finally do it....you tell them "STOP IT NOW!!!!" X(.
Granted, I sorta get that you want more sales for the PS4/X1 versions of this, but.....people wanted this game for there Vita's and PSP's here, not those systems :l. This fan translation is the only way US/EU gamers can play the game in English on there CFW Vita/PSP, and since you AREN'T bringing the game to Vita/PSP in the states (you know, like you SAID it was going to happen!) then let gamers enjoy the fan-translated version for their Vita's/PSP's.
If people want to support your product whenever it comes to the states, they will if the next-gen versions of this are quality remasters (1080p, 60FPS, Higher-Quality Assets, Higher-Quality Music, more content to use, ect). If the game isn't a quality remaster (just a cheap up-port of the PSP version with a higher resolution...), then you can choke on your remaster for all we care X(.
You did this crap with the fans working really hard on the Crono Remaster (which I heard was turning out really, really good
....) and forced them to cancel that, so don't do this for the people who took there time and energy to take a damn 2011 game and do your frekken job of bring the game to a playable state for us in the US and EU X(....
Granted, I sorta get that you want more sales for the PS4/X1 versions of this, but.....people wanted this game for there Vita's and PSP's here, not those systems :l. This fan translation is the only way US/EU gamers can play the game in English on there CFW Vita/PSP, and since you AREN'T bringing the game to Vita/PSP in the states (you know, like you SAID it was going to happen!) then let gamers enjoy the fan-translated version for their Vita's/PSP's.
If people want to support your product whenever it comes to the states, they will if the next-gen versions of this are quality remasters (1080p, 60FPS, Higher-Quality Assets, Higher-Quality Music, more content to use, ect). If the game isn't a quality remaster (just a cheap up-port of the PSP version with a higher resolution...), then you can choke on your remaster for all we care X(.
You did this crap with the fans working really hard on the Crono Remaster (which I heard was turning out really, really good
....) and forced them to cancel that, so don't do this for the people who took there time and energy to take a damn 2011 game and do your frekken job of bring the game to a playable state for us in the US and EU X(....SpaceDrake
Member
This is incredibly silly, tone-deaf, and probably comes purely from Square-Enix legal.
I'm not mad at the company as a whole because I doubt any of the actual developers had a single thing to do with this decision. Hell, I doubt a lot of the upper management even had much to do with it. It's probably the lawyers thinking they're doing "due diligence" without any thought to PR.
I'm not mad at the company as a whole because I doubt any of the actual developers had a single thing to do with this decision. Hell, I doubt a lot of the upper management even had much to do with it. It's probably the lawyers thinking they're doing "due diligence" without any thought to PR.
charlequin
Banned
Nope. All global copyright law very explicitly lays out that choosing not to enforce against one infringer cannot be used legally as a defense for another; in fact, copyright holders are permitted to be as arbitrary and capricious as they want, cutting retroactive deals with one infringer while pursuing another, or ignoring an infringement for years and then later deciding to chase it down. Mandating copyright holders to enforce would actually dramatically limit the value of their copyright monopoly and make it almost impossible for individuals to meaningfully preserve copyright on a work.
You're thinking of trademarks -- i.e. identifying names or images associated with a brand -- which companies are legally required to protect or else risk loss. Companies are required to protect those because their purpose is to uniquely identify brands, products, and companies, and letting someone else use them without attempting enforcement dilutes and confuses that identification.
Under the modern global copyright regime you cannot lose copyright on a work before the life-plus-70 window expires for any reason except by willfully releasing it to the public domain yourself.
That's trademark, at least currently.
I get the legality of it, what I dont get is why they think doing this helps them. I mean, most derivative works could be stopped with a C&D whether it had any grounds or not if they wanted to stop something, I dont think most fans are willing to risk the wrath of a multi-national corporation. I get that they could do this, but from their own interests standpoint, the timing of when they did it... well I dont see how this helps them.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I thought the whole deal of providing already subbed videos, is because it wasn't possible in other way?
In this case I think they took the right decision...
That is one hell of a "not in use". Been awhile since I looked that up, I thought it was 70 years, period, not 70 years from the death of the person who made the copyright. Totally forgot.
SuperDowns
Banned
Hmmm a Crisis Core type game... but those platforms are terrible...
It's technically very easy to supply the subs as a list of changes rather than the changed final files. This still would have required large amounts of space, as IIRC re-encoding was necessary to fit the entire game in a single faux UMD's size constraints, but would have made the distributed file less useful without a copy of the original (though portions, perhaps even objectionable portions, of the delta file could possibly still be readable.)
Memorabilia
Member
Dear Square Enix, there's an old saying that goes something like this, "Dont cut off your nose to spite your own face."
Its best to know when to pick your battles. This is taking IP protection to ludicrous, pointless extremes that does nothing but perpetuate the SE brand as a bunch of ass-hats that gamers are increasingly not wanting to support.
This is part of why I wait to purchase SE games only when they are as cheap as dirt on Steam and/or pick them up used on console.
Its best to know when to pick your battles. This is taking IP protection to ludicrous, pointless extremes that does nothing but perpetuate the SE brand as a bunch of ass-hats that gamers are increasingly not wanting to support.
This is part of why I wait to purchase SE games only when they are as cheap as dirt on Steam and/or pick them up used on console.
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