arhra
Member
And the end result will be a group of essentially randomly-chosen people from the pool of players willing to raid, i.e. exactly what you'd get from hitting a "find group" button in a world where the game actually supported matchmaking.
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Destiny's raids will not support online matchmaking with random players.
- Thread starter sjay1994
- Start date
And the end result will be a group of essentially randomly-chosen people from the pool of players willing to raid, i.e. exactly what you'd get from hitting a "find group" button in a world where the game actually supported matchmaking.
Junior Mint
Member
So I can team up with randoms on a message board instead or never play the mode. Cool.
JetBlackPanda
Member
jump puzzles, switches etc.
but I agree its pretty much the same amount of team work.
BananasWithGuns
Member
crappybannedjunior999999
Banned
Or just have mercenary playlists? But' then you would argue that the player base will be too segmented, won't you? You clearly know this is a bullshit statement. It doesn't make any sense. Why argue it? Oh, I forgot. Because shitting on every little thing you don't like or agree with in Destiny is what you and quite a few others live for these days isn't it?
LookAtMeGo
Member
Eh. IMO This will get people wanting to create more fireteams who communicate with each other which will in turn create a better environment for the PVP as well. We need more people using their mics and learning to play as a team, it makes the experience infinitely better.
Twilight Gap
Member
If you can waste time failing a raid then you can waste time finding players who aren't going to spin around in circles on a message board.
Game needs a LFG list though.
I liked it in ODST where it was all friends, but it didn't make sense in a matchmaking environment, where it led to one crappy player killing the entire team (sometimes through griefing). At least that's one thing Destiny's raids won't suffer from.
MiamiWesker
Member
Jest Chillin
Member
But forming a Pre-Made group is already an entry gate that people are complaining about. Having a gear-check style entry gate would still net complaints. Complaints from one group that they have to dedicate a ton of time to reach a gear check qualification to even try the Raid content and complaints from another group that people having the gear doesn't prove they know how to play the Raid content.
All of this stuff has happened before in MMORPGs. There are two solutions that are currently used. Players either have to manually form groups for Raids (the most common solution) or WoW's solution of Looking For Raid, which by necessity, had to lower the difficulty level extensively to cut down on the possibility of players having a poor experience.
I love how you just imply that Bungie did this because they just felt like it, and that they didn't spend weeks of playtesting, rebuilding, discussing, tweaking, and optimizing the shit out of this mode.
How much do you know about the game exactly? Enough to make a hard statement like that? I don't think you do.
You can merely speculate on what is and isn't better because you interpret three sentences in a certain way. I have some faith in the fact that Bungie knows what the fuck they are doing.
It´s only 6 people, that´s why i think it can´t really be that hard. Having 6 people knowing what to do and do it right isn´t that hard but i will definately follow how the destiny community are doing.
My guess is to avoid souring people of the raid experience by enduring frustrating experiences with randoms. They're forcing you to put a coordinated effort into putting together a team which they believe will lead to a more pleasurable experience. If you jump in raid MM a bunch of times and get nowhere with it bc people aren't contributing or coordinating efforts to complete the current challenge, you'll remember that and will be less likely to return. With or without friends.
Just my take on it.
Movement, timing, and overall goal. Typically with Horde mode the goal is just to keep going as long as you can until you die and you get rewards along the way. With raiding, you typically actually have to kill the bosses. With Horde mode maybe with randoms you get to level 9, vs with a premade group you would have gotten to level 15, either way you accomplished something. With a truly hard raid, a pickup group would not be able to accomplish anything. They wouldnt beat a single boss.
crappybannedjunior999999
Banned
Or you can keep your money since this is such a HUGE issue for you and will literally just ruin the entire experience.
At least you had the chance to have some fun during those 2 hours of play. I can't imagine a lot of people willing to spend 30 minutes to START playing before moving on to something else.
FYI the Raid has 0 way points and doesn't tell you what to do at all.
Jest Chillin
Member
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said at all. The level of coordination involved in a high level PvE encounter like a Raid is far more demanding than that of Pre-made PvP.
Then you fundamentally do not understand what a 'raid' truly is.
I'm trying to not sound like a dick, but it is true. Raids take a significant time investment. Period.
Junior Mint
Member
Good advice
This is the big thing most people here are choosing to over look. "Oh you can just ask people in at the tower until you get a group together" That could take however long just to get a team together, you're essentially doing the job of matchmaking by spamming messages to people. It's so backwards and archaic for a modern game.
lazorexplosion
Member
Nothing says well designed online multiplayer experience like not having any way to get a game going with other people online. Got four out of six friends available to play? Go play something else I guess. That sounds like a great solution.
Oh no, I don't like something about Destiny and I'm telling people about it! We can't have that!
I don't know what a mercenary playlist is, but my point stands perfectly. It's an arbitrary decision to not have matchmaking on raids. I don't like "We know what you want" decisions. I know what I want.
Yeah it really is. The game needs to have a LFG browser day 1.
Cool, I have no experience with raids. I just know it was a pain for me to team-up in the Beta so hopefully Bungie makes it easier if it is a requirement.
dragonelite
Member
Or you know both scenarios could end in pain or finishing the dam thing..
WickedLaharl
Member
It remind me of when people were ever so happy that dark souls didn't support voice chat and lost their shit when anyone expressed disappointment of not having the option.
And then DkS2 rolls around and does it right
Xamtheking
Member
Agree
But I think that the more effort you put into it the more stuff you can get out of it
Hoho for breakfast
Member
Terrible for me. I don't have 1 friend, let alone 5. They should really just have an option for randoms. I like playing with random people.
So my option is to team up with random members of GAF if I want to play it at all. If anybody wants to team up with me even though I won't be chatting at all, well then fantastic. Now we just need 4 more...
So my option is to team up with random members of GAF if I want to play it at all. If anybody wants to team up with me even though I won't be chatting at all, well then fantastic. Now we just need 4 more...
If what Bungie says about the Raid is true, both of those scenario's are going to finish in pure pain.
Xamtheking
Member
Yeah, can you imagine not having matchmaking for a 25-man group(Barring Guilds)?
Do you get what I mean?
If random players are discouraged from doing raids, I really wish they could implement some type of system where a player can "shop" for clans. Maybe go to a menu where they could browse through different clan profiles, see their current activities and past raids/accolades they've accomplished, and see if you're a fit for that kind of group. Clans would be able to post whether or not they're recruiting and create/edit a schedule for upcoming activities. Next, put this functionality in the Destiny app.
Even better, it would be great if they could integrate this with an NPC in the Tower, kind of like a "recruiting office".
Even better, it would be great if they could integrate this with an NPC in the Tower, kind of like a "recruiting office".
The Lamonster
Member
Unfortunately that's the nature of hardcore raids.
We will just have to have DestinyGAF raid subgroups that have a common day/time to get together and raid.
Netherscourge
Banned
If this first test-raid Bungie did couldn't be cleared in 16 hours by one of the top Raiding Guilds in the world, should they even bother putting it into a console FPS game?
Would ANY modern-day PC MMORPG developer bother making a 16-hour Raid dungeon?
I mean, there wasn't much of a difficulty curve in the first 8 levels of the Beta. Each mission leveled you up naturally and your gear matched as you leveled.
I hope the difficulty ramps up a lot around Levels 15 to 20 - enough to make people prepared for these Raids. Because if we're going from 20 minute Strike Missions with randoms to 10-hour Raids with Friends-Only, well, that's quite a steep cliff to climb there...
And like I said - this is a console game. We're not talking about Hardcore MMORPG Raiders who bust out spreadsheets to Min/Max their gear and grind out every conceivable consumable buff they can find or craft during their "downtime".
We're talking about two different worlds of gamers here.
Would ANY modern-day PC MMORPG developer bother making a 16-hour Raid dungeon?
I mean, there wasn't much of a difficulty curve in the first 8 levels of the Beta. Each mission leveled you up naturally and your gear matched as you leveled.
I hope the difficulty ramps up a lot around Levels 15 to 20 - enough to make people prepared for these Raids. Because if we're going from 20 minute Strike Missions with randoms to 10-hour Raids with Friends-Only, well, that's quite a steep cliff to climb there...
And like I said - this is a console game. We're not talking about Hardcore MMORPG Raiders who bust out spreadsheets to Min/Max their gear and grind out every conceivable consumable buff they can find or craft during their "downtime".
We're talking about two different worlds of gamers here.
KevMan1815
Member
Back when I raided hardcore in WoW we used to get 40 people together for raids. Without matchmaking. In the snow. Uphill.
Considering that Destiny is some bizarre FPS MMO hybrid and none of us have played a full product you also don't understand what a Destiny 'raid' truly is. You're defending Bungie without even giving the slightest concern for valid points an arguments.
dragonelite
Member
Do you need to finish a Raid in one sitting or does it have a daily or weekly reset timer?
NullPointer
Member
Even among friends we'd always have that one person who sucked up all of our lives and cut our games short, and they'd always feel guilty for it. Never thought it was a good design to make that one player feel bad, but thats how Bungie wanted it I guess.
What bugs me about that particular design element in ODST and this no-matchmaking-in-raids stuff is that its an extremely hardcore design decision that makes plenty of sense when you're a game dev and this is what you do for a living - but for the vast majority of their audience that plays games casually, designs like this are exclusionary. And at least in my experience clans have mostly sucked and been filled with needless drama, which is why I have left every one that I've joined.
In this particular case, its yet another mode (along with PVP) that I won't really jump into. So for me anyway, Destiny content is getting slimmer by the week.
If no check points is the way they are making their raids super hard that sounds like an absolutely miserable experience for everyone, matchmade or not.
The_Almighty_Swan
Banned
Yes but at the same time there are other game modes that will suit basically everyones needs. In other words, it's a great idea. Something for everyone.
Yep, this is what will happen, not even GAF can break the usual game shelve life cycle. 3-4 months after launch most of GAF won't be playing Destiny, so if you don't have RL friends who play the game good luck finding people to go on a Raid with you.
RadarScope1
Member
I continue to hope that Destiny will be the game that gets this solo player into online MP gaming. Be my friend, GAF!
Duxxy3
Member
Yeah, tell that to MMO players that were excluded from end game content for almost a decade.
Xamtheking
Member
I agree with you for once!
Yay!
My guess is when you get the gear that pushes you over Level 20, it turns you into an ungodly badass.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I suppose that makes sense. You don't want folks who possibly aren't going to work together with the rest of the team in a useful way, and you definitely don't want any dicks being apart of your team, which is always possible when you're dealing with random people.
that something i try to know too. If there is an ID system it will be harder to find 5 friends, if there is no ID system and can farm raids as much as they want, people will farm their gear pretty fast.
WoW had some pretty damn hard 5 man heroics that were not doable with randoms at the time.