Support NeoGAF

[inpHilltr8r]

Really? I thought they had unions and stuff. Huh...

Most of the film industry does. VFX doesn't.

 

[krypt0nian]

Can't wait to see how IGN will spin this as doom and gloom.

That Colin Moriarty seem obsessed with it. Even after being shut down by Druckman. LOL

 

[funkystudent]

Nate Fox forcing people out?

 

[Artex]

Its typical post-project wrapup. And I get junior'd for posting a TLOU remaster rumor that turned out to be true :|

 

[simplythebest]

Second Son sold well. Again this has nothing to do with the state of Sucker Punch. It's how the games business works. Extra people are brought in to help with a major project, once that project wraps up they are let go.

Damn. That's quite a shitty practice. The way game development works needs to change

 

[beril]

Ign has an official confirmation by sony

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/20/infamous-dev-sucker-punch-suffers-layoffs

less officially, I heard on twitter is that roughly 20% were laid off

 

[Nirolak]

I don't know sure, but isn't some turnover normal after a project is wrapped up?

Those are generally contract workers.

The vast majority of developers try to keep all permanent staff by putting them on things like DLC while the next game is in preproduction.

The way people are describing staff ramp down was abolished on the basis it's horrid for morale.

 

[Brad Grenz]

The Visual FX people have it pretty bad, but that is basically how it works for the majority of the people that are actually on the film set.

While that's true, the film industry is actually built for this. Everyone is on contract, they all know the deal and everyone is part of a Guild or Union through which they get their health coverage and benefits. They are also compensated in a way that recognizes the transience of the work experience which allows them enough to live on between gigs.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Its typical post-project wrapup. And I get junior'd for posting a TLOU remaster rumor that turned out to be true :|

GAF threads don't always have to be exclusively about giving us whiny children the news we want. When it comes to something like this, it's beneficial to the individuals no longer with jobs that news sites and communities can rally and perpetuate the knowledge they're looking for work.

EDIT: Talking of which, anyone who skipped over the OP, one of the guys affected is now listed. I'd like to link some more before I go to bed.

 

[Akahige]

Ign has an official confirmation by sony

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/20/infamous-dev-sucker-punch-suffers-layoffs

less officially, I heard on twitter is that roughly 20% were laid off

"wishes them the best in their next endeavors" makes it sound like they've gone private again, or maybe I'm reading into it too much.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

"wishes them the best in their next endeavors" makes it sound like they've gone private again, or maybe I'm reading into it too much.

They are wishing the laid off people best of luck in future endeavours not SuckerPunch itself.

 

[beril]

"wishes them the best in their next endeavors" makes it sound like they've gone private again, or maybe I'm reading into it too much.

eh no, they're wishing the best to the people they've laid off

 

[Nirolak]

SCEA can confirm a reduction in workforce has taken place at Sucker Punch Productions. Sucker Punch is appreciative of the tremendous work team members contributed to the inFAMOUS and Sly Cooper series, and wishes them the best in their next endeavors.

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/20/infamous-dev-sucker-punch-suffers-layoffs

Okay yes they don't keep you around since the PS2 era and then lay you off as part of "normal ramp up/ramp down" people.

The normal ramp up/ramp down is done through positions on job sites labeled "Contract" or "Temp". Hence why these are seen as layoffs, since they're of permanent positions.

 

[Akahige]

Yeah yeah you are right. I shouldn't post right before bed.

 

[StuBurns]

At the size Sony's first party is, it's time they had a dedicated asset house so their one project studios don't need to swell when they ramp up and need to let people go when they're done. Obviously Sony aren't Ubisoft or anything, but it's getting to that point, and if nothing else, it avoids the PR implications.

I hope everyone out of a job finds their feet and ends up somewhere they'd want to be.

 

[makingmusic476]

Oh man, that sounds bad. We get a count yet?

 

[Minions]

That sucks. Part of me wonders if this is connected to making studios "more efficient" to save costs since Sony is doing badly financially in the past few years. Hopefully these veterans find homes at other studios.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Oh man, that sounds bad. We get a count yet?

One of the ladies involved in the Twitter threads is saying 20% of the workforce. So, I'd really like to get some names in the OP if that's the case. Seems like an awful lot.

 

[kinoki]

The simple fact that Unions isn't in place is a disgrace. It's also a disgrace for the whole industry works around this issue. Sony is a big company, they could have a mobile crunch team that helps all their studios out. No need to layoff people when you can move them around.

To anyone who is against Unions in an industry like this: *smack* what's wrong with you?

 

[Grisby]

That sucks. Some talented folks over there.

 

[Femmeworth]

Perhaps their next game will have a narrower scope?

 

[reptilescorpio]

One of the ladies involved in the Twitter threads is saying 20% of the workforce. So, I'd really like to get some names in the OP if that's the case. Seems like an awful lot.

Holy shit that's insane if true! I hope it's more like 2% rather than 20%

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

20% reduction is really disappointing, if true.

Unfortunately it seems like Sony, now that they're on top of the console race, is slowly reducing staff counts at a large portion of their first party studios in order to increase profits.

So yeah, no more "aggressive, hungry" Sony of the PS3 era when it comes to first party expansion...let's just hope this doesn't hurt their quality output too much. Sucker Punch is a great studio and deserves to grow, now dwindle away.

 

[Ridley327]

Perhaps their next game will have a narrower scope?

The inFamous games are pretty damn narrow for open world titles. Maybe they're getting into doing something a lot more linear in the future.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Holy shit that's insane if true! I hope it's more like 2% rather than 20%

Wait and see. I didn't want to put it in the OP because it's all hearsay for the moment.

 

[~Kinggi~]

20% reduction is really disappointing, if true.

Unfortunately it seems like Sony, now that they're on top of the console race, is slowly reducing staff counts at a large portion of their first party studios in order to increase profits.

So yeah, no more "aggressive, hungry" Sony of the PS3 era when it comes to first party expansion...let's just hope this doesn't hurt their quality output too much. Sucker Punch is a great studio and deserves to grow, now dwindle away.

I imagine the financial trouble Sony is in is causing them to set up a long-term plan where they reduce first party in favor of the indies and 3rd party relations to bring in the profits.

 

[Ottoni_Bastos]

druckmann...

 

[VanWinkle]

That's a real shame. Ugh, makes me sad. And Second Son sold really well, too.

 

[ZeroX03]

Yeah it's really shitty. My understanding is that the film industry has a support structure built around the project-to-project way things are made, gaming really should have something similar - at least for QA, artists, and level designers since they seem to be affected by this the most.

The closest thing you get to job security in the industry is a TV/news show that is in production for most of the year. Unless you're top in your field and in demand it's just as volatile as the game industry unfortunately.

While that's true, the film industry is actually built for this. Everyone is on contract, they all know the deal and everyone is part of a Guild or Union through which they get their health coverage and benefits. They are also compensated in a way that recognizes the transience of the work experience which allows them enough to live on between gigs.

Also true, compensation is better at least and people recognise that a big pay check may have to last for months at a time.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I thought the Sly folks all left years ago. The creator did and formed Loose Cannon, that went bust when Konami didn't pay them for Tornado Outbreak (is that legal?!), he went to Pop Cap, might've left, not sure.

 

[JaggedSac]

I don't know sure, but isn't some turnover normal after a project is wrapped up?

That depends on if they were contractors hired for a specific project. The company I work for has a steady number of company employees and a certain number of contractors. This lets the company drop and add according to the market and budget without affecting the company folks. It's pretty common in the enterprise software development.

 

[Leb]

20% reduction is really disappointing, if true.

Unfortunately it seems like Sony, now that they're on top of the console race, is slowly reducing staff counts at a large portion of their first party studios in order to increase profits.

So yeah, no more "aggressive, hungry" Sony of the PS3 era when it comes to first party expansion...let's just hope this doesn't hurt their quality output too much. Sucker Punch is a great studio and deserves to grow, now dwindle away.

Well, is this really surprising from a business standpoint? Sony is already the go-to platform for multiplats, which constitute the bulk of software sales in any event, and it may be that Sony is now looking to decrease its exposure in first party studios that historically have always produced solid but never exceptional titles, studios like, say, Sucker Punch and Guerrilla Games.

 

[Nightengale]

20% is a lot, but some context.

SP was about 80 person strong as of mid-late last year.

Ramped up to 110+ towards the end of Second Son, and maintained that count for the past few months.

So 20% would put them back to their 2013 pre-ramp up team size.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I imagine the financial trouble Sony is in is causing them to set up a long-term plan where they reduce first party in favor of the indies and 3rd party relations to bring in the profits.

Probably so, sadly.

I think it's the wrong move to make, though, honestly. Sucker Punch's titles seemed to do well enough, and Second Son is their best selling game. I'm fairly confident they were profitable. This is just about making them more profitable at the expense of reduced mancount, which will inevitably hurt quality.

I think Sony needs to look more seriously at further cuts to other divisions that are responsible for bleeding the company dry. Sony's gaming division is already quite profitable so early in the gen, so the division is looking good for the foreseeable future, I just wish they weren't trying to push it too far at the expense of their first party studios.

There's been too much bad news lately about Sony first party projects (delays, cancellations, etc).

Well, is this really surprising from a business standpoint? Sony is already the go-to platform for multiplats, which constitute the bulk of software sales in any event, and it may be that Sony is now looking to decrease its exposure in first party studios that historically have always produced solid but never exceptional titles, studios like, say, Sucker Punch and Guerrilla Games.

Not surprising from a business standpoint, but from a gamer's point of view it's a little unsettling. I enjoyed hungry Sony during the PS3 era.

 

[Minions]

20% reduction is really disappointing, if true.

Unfortunately it seems like Sony, now that they're on top of the console race, is slowly reducing staff counts at a large portion of their first party studios in order to increase profits.

So yeah, no more "aggressive, hungry" Sony of the PS3 era when it comes to first party expansion...let's just hope this doesn't hurt their quality output too much. Sucker Punch is a great studio and deserves to grow, now dwindle away.

Sony is/was bloated in lots of different areas. Many companies are. It sucks but some concessions have to be made if Sony wants to remain profitable in the long term. I don't think anyone wants to see Sony go out of business because they decided to employ more people than they actually need to complete a project. (Not that this is the only reason they lose money. However they need to stem the tide)

 

[StarlordDial]

druckmann...

we need Nate Fox with the Vince Mcmahon itwasmeallalong.gif with his face photoshopped in it

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony is/was bloated in lots of different areas. Many companies are. It sucks but some concessions have to be made if Sony wants to remain profitable in the long term. I don't think anyone wants to see Sony go out of business because they decided to employ more people than they actually need to complete a project. (Not that this is the only reason they lose money. However they need to stem the tide)

I don't know all the particulars of Sucker Punch, but they weren't a studio that I thought of as "bloated".

They're a much leaner team than, say, Santa Monica or Naughty Dog. So that's why this news sounds troubling. I can't see them maintaining AAA quality titles and reducing headcount to such a large degree.

 

[reptilescorpio]

20% is a lot, but some context.

SP was about 80 person strong as of mid-late last year.

Ramped up to 110+ towards the end of Second Son, and maintained that count for the past few months.

So 20% would put them back to their 2013 pre-ramp up team size.

Oh, I had no idea they were that small. Thought they would be a 200+ studio.

 

[vypek]

Including people from Sly Cooper era? Does that mean its more serious than contract workers wrapping up First Light?

 

[Boke1879]

I don't know all the particulars of Sucker Punch, but they weren't a studio that I thought of as "bloated".

They're a much leaner team than, say, Santa Monica or Naughty Dog. So that's why this news sounds troubling. I can't see them maintaining AAA quality titles and reducing headcount to such a large degree.

Like someone said earlier. there about an 80 man studio then shot up to about 110. If there was a 20% reduction it would put them back around that 80 man number.

 

[demosthenes]

20% reduction is really disappointing, if true.

Unfortunately it seems like Sony, now that they're on top of the console race, is slowly reducing staff counts at a large portion of their first party studios in order to increase profits.

So yeah, no more "aggressive, hungry" Sony of the PS3 era when it comes to first party expansion...let's just hope this doesn't hurt their quality output too much. Sucker Punch is a great studio and deserves to grow, now dwindle away.

Talk about jumping to conclusions.

 

[Byronic Hero]

Aww that sucks.Maybe some of the staff from the Sly Cooper era could work for Sanzaru. That'd be awesomel

 

[Quotient]

Do we know what the positions are? Middle-management, QA, Art, Design?

They did ramp up for Second Son, so this may be them just going back to the original size.

 

[Strike]

Maybe some of the staff from the Sly Cooper era could work for Sanzaru.

That's the first thing I thought of when I noticed the title change. Best of luck to all those that were affected.

 

[labaronx]

20% is a lot, but some context.

SP was about 80 person strong as of mid-late last year.

Ramped up to 110+ towards the end of Second Son, and maintained that count for the past few months.

So 20% would put them back to their 2013 pre-ramp up team size.

THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE

 

[Nightengale]

Layoffs are still disappointing, and best of luck to those affected, but i wouldn't read this as gloom doom or Sony too poor scenario.

The worst one can attribute this level of downsizing is that Sucker Punch isn't making a major expansion scope and that SP will still be the "small AAA" one project team of WWS America for the foreseeable future.

 

[Storm Raider]

Hopefully Suckerpunch works on something new. Once a brand hits 3 games, I think you should switch it up a little.

Uncharted -> TLOU
Resistance -> FUSE/Sunset Overdrive
LittleBigPlanet -> Tearaway (albeit PSP/vita games / diff developer)
Etc.

 

[labaronx]

Layoffs are still disappointing, and best of luck to those affected, but i wouldn't read this as gloom doom or Sony too poor scenario.

The worst one can attribute this level of downsizing is that Sucker Punch isn't making a major expansion scope and that SP will still be the "small AAA" team of WWS America.

I get that. But will they only do infamous games is my question

 

[Lemondish]

The amount of acceptance of this practice in this thread is sad. Yes it happens but it's still shitty and at a big first party studio they really ought to be able to offer a bit more job security. Of course we don't know any details yet, so it's hard to comment on this specific case.

I don't think anyone is accepting this as a good thing. I assumed folks are just clarifying how this is the natural next step in this industry. I think it's to help avoid the topic being derailed by concern troll posts that ask "what's going on at sucker punch?!"

If we never again see a repeat of the Druckmann nonsense, I'll be happy.

 

[Disgraced]

Bummer. Wish them the best.

happens with every project that ends for years now. ive been laid off way more times than i can count. at this point its normal within the industry which is also sad.

Man. That's shit. What the hell happened to loyalty?