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[Rogue_Ledr]

I don't get this. Second Son was a critical and commercial hit.

Why would they lay off team members? This feels like it is 4 months late.

I would've expected this during the big mass Sony layoff/departure period earlier this year.

Anyone know the repercussions of this? How will the company and its projects be affected?

 

[ZeroX03]

Film industry is a little different as film is almost 100% independent contract. There really aren't full time jobs on a film company, you are hired for a project and just that. Once it is complete, onto the next thing. Only full time employees are at outside fx firms, but you take on multiple projects at those companies to stay open.

You talking specifically film industry in the U.S.? Because I know a decent chunk of people who are at production companies full time, but they tend to skew toward television & commercials. I'd say majority are still independent contracters, but I know some in-house editors, producers, etc.

 

[jackissocool]

I don't get this. Second Son was a critical and commercial hit.

Why would they lay off team members? This feels like it is 4 months late.

I would've expected this during the big mass Sony layoff/departure period earlier this year.

Anyone know the repercussions of this? How will the company and its projects be affected?

The timing is probably related to First Light. (I suspect) First Light allowed them to essentially extend and delay the normal grow-release-layoff cycle and possibly to reduce the size of the layoffs. That's conjecture but it makes sense to me on the outside.

 

[element]

You talking specifically film industry in the U.S.? Because I know a decent chunk of people who are at production companies full time, but they tend to skew toward television & commercials. I'd say majority are still independent contracters, but I know some in-house editors, producers, etc.

Yeah film. There are in-house development studios, but full-time staff in those is very small. Television is a little different, because firms develop multiple projects at a fairly low cost.

 

[Suzzopher]

Well this sucks. Sounds like what happened to Liverpool a couple of years before their closure

 

[sirap]

Eh, it sucks. But trimming fat is important to the health of a company. We'd like to think that all devs give 100% of their efforts to the job, but the reality is that there will always be those who under perform or slack off. Not saying this is what's going on with Suckerpunch, but that's the nature of running a successful business.

 

[Ahmad_742009]

I hope they share more details on this. Just want to know how many of these guys were from Second Son's team

 

[Triggerhappytel]

element is claiming it's between 30 to 40 per cent of staff.

Pretty clear it is over 20, probably closer to 30.

Again, heart goes out to those hit. Totally sucks. Silver lining is that 343i and Amazon are hiring a lot, as well as Cryptic and Gameloft just opening offices in the last couple months.

Holy shit; that does seem a lot. I mean, I was under the impression that Second Son was a pretty solid success and you would think if anything Sony would be looking to solidify this studio and increase staff numbers. Do we have any idea of LTD sales of Second Son? I guess if it did 1 million copies in the first nine days then it probably went on to about 2-2.5 million sales total?

This sucks man, I thought by remaining a small team SP would be safe from stuff like this. Best wishes to those affected.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

All the best for the people who were affected by the recent layoffs at Sucker Punch. Hopefully they are able to find a job soon. This sucks for sure, and sadly it is prevalent in the gaming industry.

 

[kyser73]

So were all these folk permanent staff or contractors?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

What the hell is going on at Sony WWS?

Spoiler

Druckmann??

 

[DarkLordMalik]

So were all these folk permanent staff or contractors?

You all suck for instantly thinking that!

Educated guess from my Facebook and Twitter:
Around 30% to 40% of the staff were laid off.
Majority of these are full time exempt employees (salary positions).
Some have been at Sucker Punch over 10 years.
All areas effected including design, programming, art, marketing, production, and test.

My heart goes out to all those effected.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126234857&postcount=165

 

[Hammer24]

Sad news. Hope everyone lands on their feet fast!

 

[GarciaHotspur]

I really can't understand what Sony are doing....

 

[kyser73]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126234857&postcount=165

Wow that's both awful AND expensive (in severance payment), especially for people that have been there for 5-10 years. That's a pretty major downsize if it involves losing that much experience & corporate knowledge plus the financial hit.

 

[Acquiescence]

I hope this is a result of the team winding down while it works on a new project, but if it's due to Second Son not performing to expectations then... damn. If a game that sells over a million copies within nine days is still unable to make a profit then we're in for a sad gen.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126234857&postcount=165

Wow, if that's true, that's really horrible

 

[genbatzu]

are western publishers/developers really that desperate for money? It really sucks if you worked your ass off and get kicked out after a job well done, only to be replaced by someone else half a year later ...

why can't western publishers/developers handle their employees like Nintendo does?

unfair industry :/

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

No need to panic. It sucks that people were laid off, but there was probably a hiring spree to get the project (Second Son, Last Light) finished in a timely manner with short term hires. There are usually a dozen to thirty layoffs depending on the studio size after a project wraps. There's just no need for certain specialists until the next project reaches particular phases of development, which at that point I'm certain they'll expand again.

Ideally they would have several projects in a staggered production slate to avoid massive down time with most of their staff, but logistically every project wrap will have some extent of layoffs.

Trust me, thinking this is spelling doom as part of a bigger crisis at either Sony or SP will sound idiotic. I hope all of those affected land on their feet. They always do. I am saddened that Sly era staff were laid off as well.

 

[element]

It sucks that people were laid off, but there was probably a hiring spree to get the project (Second Son, Last Light) finished in a timely manner with short term hires.

I can tell you that is not the case. From the people I know who were laid off have been at Sucker Punch for every Infamous game created and even some since Sly.

I don't think this is doom and gloom for Sony, I do think this will change Sucker Punch significantly. We won't know impact of this until their next game is out, which could be years.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I can tell you that is not the case. From the people I know who were laid off have been at Sucker Punch for every Infamous game created and even some since Sly.

I don't think this is doom and gloom for Sony, I do think this will change Sucker Punch significantly. We won't know impact of this until their next game is out, which could be years.

That is the troubling part concerning longtime staff. From my experience, that senior staff may just have been to expensive to keep around. It's a shitty practice, but there is a lot of young talent out there that can be payed a lot less than senior staff while more or less keeping pace. This is speculation of course, but I've seen it happen too often.

 

[element]

From my experience, that senior staff may just have been to expensive to keep around. It's a shitty practice, but there is a lot of young talent out there that can be payed a lot less than senior staff while more or less keeping pace. This is speculation of course, but I've seen it happen too often.

Yeah. I have seen that as well. Between raises and bonuses, it adds up quick if you have long term staff. Especially if you want to retain staff, which means you have to stay competitive with salaries.

Like I said, the impact of this won't be known for years.

 

[Sendou]

You all suck for instantly thinking that!

Educated guess from my Facebook and Twitter:
Around 30% to 40% of the staff were laid off.
Majority of these are full time exempt employees (salary positions).
Some have been at Sucker Punch over 10 years.
All areas effected including design, programming, art, marketing, production, and test.

My heart goes out to all those effected.

Hope the folks affected soon find a new job. It's obvious looking at the games made by Sucker Punch that there's some serious talent behind them.

 

[iceatcs]

Thats really too bad lost the job, I'm feeling they are being replacing for fresh youth devs. Cheaper and maybe more effective.
Like my work, lot of seniors laid out because quite expensive to keep all of them.

 

[KooopaKid]

Huh hoh really bad sign for Sucker Punch. But Second Son sold less than 2M units WW no? For a 3 years development cycle, I doubt it was profitable. 1080p game development is going to be rough for the remaining medium sized studios.

 

[Nightengale]

I can tell you that is not the case. From the people I know who were laid off have been at Sucker Punch for every Infamous game created and even some since Sly.

I don't think this is doom and gloom for Sony, I do think this will change Sucker Punch significantly. We won't know impact of this until their next game is out, which could be years.

This is going to sound cruel to everyone laid off, but does the dev history with the company... matter in the grand scheme of things?

Almost every time a layoff happen, there's almost always veterans or people with years at the studio in the mix, and at the same time, we see newcomers surviving the layoff. It's not uncommon that studio veterans get passed over for lead roles as studios recruit talent from outside to take up leadership roles.

I'm not downplaying that this will have a major impact on SP, but I don't know if dev lineage with the studio is necessarily something that makes a major difference. Corporations are cruel and makes little distinction to your years of service when it comes to cuts.

 

[JimmyRustler]

The gaming industry's allowance of "hiring spree - ship product - downsizing" is insane. I don't understand how this is "normal".

Well, usually at the end of the production most people are needed. It doesn't really surprise that the downsize after that and then get new staff again when the new project gets bigger and bigger.

€dit: Ok, apparently long time people got laid off. That sucks...

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Sony has confirmed that there have been redundancies at Infamous developer Sucker Punch, although the exact number of job losses is not known.

In a statement released to IGN, Sony expressed its sympathies, but did not clarify whether the cuts were a result of missed expectations or simply the regular trimming of the workforce post-project.

"SCEA can confirm a reduction in workforce has taken place at Sucker Punch Productions. Sucker Punch is appreciative of the tremendous work team members contributed to the inFAMOUS and Sly Cooper series, and wishes them the best in their next endeavours."

InFamous Second Son, Sucker Punch's most recent title, reviewed well, receiving an 80 per cent Metaxritic average. It also sold over a million copies and reached number one in the UK chart.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-20-sony-confirms-sucker-punch-layoffs

 

[davepoobond]

I feel like they were the only studio that didnt fire anyone during the big layoffs earlier in the year. It sounds like it was delayed for the infamous games launch and when they got through it, the axe finally came down.

Who knows if first light was some sort of plan to keep people on longer to see if another game would get greenlit in time or something?

It sucks that career employees got laid off. That's sad.

 

[Nightengale]

Well, Naughty Dog didn't either,though they ended up losing some key people anyway.

Was strange seeing Josh tweet out that Naughty Dog is hiring to laid off SP employees.

 

[uncleniccius]

Seriously Sony, SERIOUSLY!?

Keep the talented team members at the studio, Jesus. I get the need for reductions in some studios to reduce costs, but not at your primary studios.

Seriously worrying, they should never touch Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog, San Diego Studio and they should never have touched Studio Liverpool

 

[Loudninja]

SSM,SCEJ,Evolution Studios, Guerrilla Cambridge & SCE London Studio were all restructure I think this is the same for suckerpunch.


Some people left ND as well.

 

[Nightengale]

Some people left ND as well.

Unlikely that there were anything to do with restructuring though.

 

[davepoobond]

Well, Naughty Dog didn't either,though they ended up losing some key people anyway.

Was strange seeing Josh tweet out that Naughty Dog is hiring to laid off SP employees.

Naughty dog seems different because Sony seems intent on expanding that studio because its been producing some amazing games and sales performance, so its business structure and talent is obviously something they don't want to break. Also, the migration of employees seemed like there were a few that were leaving regardless so they may not have needed to replace them.

It's kind of like does Sony want another last of us/uncharted or do they want another infamous spin off. I think they'll opt for the naughty dog game at the end of the day.

 

[Loudninja]

Unlikely that there were anything to do with restructuring though.

Yeah.

 

[Femmeworth]

That's awful if 30 - 40% have been let go. They must have hit a serious snag during pre-production for their next full game or I guess Sony decided they were too inefficient.

 

[reptilescorpio]

You all suck for instantly thinking that!

Educated guess from my Facebook and Twitter:
Around 30% to 40% of the staff were laid off.
Majority of these are full time exempt employees (salary positions).
Some have been at Sucker Punch over 10 years.
All areas effected including design, programming, art, marketing, production, and test.

My heart goes out to all those effected.

Wow, that doesn't bode well at all for the studio. To lose a massive chunk, nearly HALF their workforce, is going to cripple plans for any projects on the scale of Infamous Second Son.
The fact they cut so deep at entrenched salary staff won't be putting the rest of the veterans at ease either, would expect more than a few to jump ship expecting to get cut in later rounds of layoffs in years to come.

Could very well see Suckerpunch taking on much smaller scope games, maybe DD only.

 

[Acosta]

This cycle is sooooooo stupid. Yes, let's layoff people with experience and know-how about the team and the internal dynamics, and then let's contract new people in one year when we get the next game out of pre-production.

There HAS to be a better way, it´s insane.

Good luck to everyone involved.

 

[Exile20]

Retro is hiring... plus Iwata doent belive in laying off staff... just saying

I really respect Nintendo for that.

 

[Longsword]

I don't get this. Second Son was a critical and commercial hit.

What I wonder whether it WAS a commercial hit. With the current cost of development, did the game sell enough?

And perhaps even more importantly, if the next game in the series will cost far more, it might have been that Sony just did not see potential for profitability.

Speculation, but I cannot see that this was done for other reasons than financial ones, the cull is just too big.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Hadn't Sucker Punch expanded at lot during the development of Second Son? Could be them trimming the wage bill and getting rid of expensive vets for cheaper new talent. Sucks for everyone but it still doesn't seem too out of the ordinary.

Of course it could be keeping in line with the restructuring at other Sony WWS that happened this year, it was just delayed at Sucker Punch until First Light finished.

 

[PJV3]

This cycle is sooooooo stupid. Yes, let's layoff people with experience and know-how about the team and the internal dynamics, and then let's contract new people in one year when we get the next game out of pre-production.

There HAS to be a better way, it´s insane.

Good luck to everyone involved.

It's a shame they can't use the Internet and have a pan-Sony approach, get some working on other projects, the people working on TLG need a hand.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Hadn't Sucker Punch expanded at lot during the development of Second Son? Could be them trimming the wage bill and getting rid of expensive vets for cheaper new talent. Sucks for everyone but it still doesn't seem too out of the ordinary.

As far as I know, they were around 60 staff during development of Infamous 1 & 2, and were about 80 staff for Second Son, which seems like a small team size for current-gen development.

 

[Longsword]

As far as I know, they were around 60 staff during development of Infamous 1 & 2, and were about 80 staff for Second Son, which seems like a small team size for current-gen development.

Lots of outsourcing and help from rest of the Sony, I'd guess.

 

[funkystudent]

SCE definitely does seem to be culling a lot of its tenured employees. Wonder whats up with that.

Those SSM cuts and this.... Also I wonder if this was part of what happened at Naughty Dog as well.


Also didnt Sucker Punch grow a good bit since Sony bought them before Infamous 2? They where a pretty small studio by AAA standards before that but I dont know how big they where before these layoffs.

 

[Loudninja]

As far as I know, they were around 60 staff during development of Infamous 1 & 2, and were about 80 staff for Second Son, which seems like a small team size for current-gen development.

They had like 110.

Edit: Maybe 100 not too sure.

 

[Bundy]

As far as I know, they were around 60 staff during development of Infamous 1 & 2, and were about 80 staff for Second Son, which seems like a small team size for current-gen development.

They were a studio with over 110 employees.
So going back to ~70 at the start of a new project makes a bit more sense.
Same goes for Sony Santa Monica. After the studio reboot -> they're ~80 people there

 

[Impeccable]

That sucks.

 

[Shredderi]

They had like 110.

Edit: Maybe 100 not too sure.

Yeah I remember reading a figure over 100 somewhere. I get that these things happen in game industry but I would have thought that they would want to make their capable studios even more capable, not gimp them so their next projects can't be as ambitious as their last. Unless it's just downsizing for the duration of pre-production.

 

[Bundy]

Yeah I remember reading a figure over 100 somewhere. I get that these things happen in game industry but I would have thought that they would want to make their capable studios even more capable, not gimp them so their next projects can't be as ambitious as their last. Unless it's just downsizing for the duration of pre-production.

They're just starting with their new project.
So you can expect that they will grow over the next months/years again.