I'd say replacing bullets with ink and the goal NOT being killing people but painting the territory as much as possible is breaking conventions in my book.
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Miyamoto: games too same-y, industry has a long way to go
- Thread starter maxcriden
- Start date
I'd say replacing bullets with ink and the goal NOT being killing people but painting the territory as much as possible is breaking conventions in my book.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The problem is that once you get to that point and start analyzing the gameplay, you realize that there's just as many or more differences and changes to the fundamental movement mechanics and level design between NSMB2 to NSMBU than there are between call of duty sequels.
Acting like they are superior to the NSMBU games in that regard is entirely off base.
lol
just stop
I figured many people would jump in with "how many Mario games are there?"
I feel he isn't taking issue with any series of games, such as the Call of Duty or Halo series, but with the homogenous feel of games from different publishers and developers. I can't fathom how anyone with even a passing familiarity of modern games would not agree.
Remember this? Yeah, from four years ago. Little has changed.
I feel he isn't taking issue with any series of games, such as the Call of Duty or Halo series, but with the homogenous feel of games from different publishers and developers. I can't fathom how anyone with even a passing familiarity of modern games would not agree.
Remember this? Yeah, from four years ago. Little has changed.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Miyamoto needs to play more PC games. Don't worry, we'll embrace you with open arms Miyamoto-san!
MS and Sony moneyhatted new IP from Japanese devs too. Even one from Platinum!
MS and Sony moneyhatted new IP from Japanese devs too. Even one from Platinum!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Chronicles maaaybe, but Splatoon really? I don't think I've ever seen a shooter that plays anything like it. The territory control there are maybe a few smaller games that dabbled in it, but the traversal stuff is the definition of innovation, especially with how integral traversal is to a shooter
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
What in the hell do you mean by true originality and innovation anyway? How badly does the wheel need to be reinvented before we create an entire new subgenre?
And here I was being told we're paying 60 dollars to have a pretty frame and story told to us...what's gameplay again?
Actually three; Codename S.T.E.A.M. this doesn't include Miyamoto's concepts that are apparently being implemented into Star Fox.
even if that's what Miyamoto was doing, you'd notice he calls himself and Nintendo out as part of the problem.
It still meets the criteria of what that guy was asking about. Turning around and saying they don't count for whatever reason doesn't really stick.
Coffee Dog
Banned
That would be great if it wasn't entirely irrelevant! When did MS/Sony enter the conversation?
Changing the point of the game to territorial control, and using the controlled territories as resources to give you more movement options, breaks quite a few conventions. The entire focus of the gameplay is different. I mean, shit, if you know anything about Tribes, you'd know that the additional movement options the ink provides will anchor the game. That breaks convention.
MOney hatting= Fully funding the biggest game Platinum games has done to date and reviving a dead project that no other first party or third party publisher wanted to invest in.
Ok.
Damerman
Member
learned something new.. thanks. but are you saying that myamoto is a victim of that fallacy based on responses in this thread, or are you saying that myamoto is committing the fallacy by calling out developers? i'm hoping its the former.
....wait, I was counting Splatoon and Codename S.T.E.A.M. What am I missing?!
You can't be serious. Mario is not about the story line.
You want an intricate story and set pieces and CG cutscenes?
What the hell am I reading?
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Not any more than other companies with similar capabilities.
That's the issue, you can't really compare Nintendo to pretty much every dev/publisher, simply because of the sheer number of different teams they have. So at the end of the day, it's just pretty much Sony, and maybe Ubisoft and EA, who all develop a wide variety of games.
fabricated backlash
Member
#notallgames, the thread.
Don't you know? Mario has the deepest lore of all.
...I think your priorities with Mario games are kinda misguided if you think anyone actually gives a shit about the story.
SenorArdilla
Member
That robot game. Project Giant Robot.
UncleSporky
Member
It's also pretty awful how the thread isn't about the subject that was brought up...instead it's about Nintendo and whether they're one to talk.
Well, who cares who said it? If Nintendo can't say it, whatever, that's fine, who is allowed to say it? Let them say it and then maybe we'll discuss the actual subject and not the person who said it.
Well, who cares who said it? If Nintendo can't say it, whatever, that's fine, who is allowed to say it? Let them say it and then maybe we'll discuss the actual subject and not the person who said it.
There should be 4 to be honest:
Splatoon
Codename S.T.E.A.M.
Project Guard
Project Giant Robots
Oh. Ehhh that still feels like a very proof-of-concept tech demo, not so much an actual game yet. They could potentially end up rolling that into something else or something. It's real early.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
the people who made the thread into that aren't likely to read your post or anything in here besides the letters in bold white on the upper left side of the page
He has to be looking at one portion of games to make statements like this now. There's always going to be a group of developers making sequels to successful franchises or making new IPs that are following popular genres/gameplay designs with no intention of coming up with creative gameplay mechanics.
There's a lot of games that were announced last year or this year that aren't similar to the current popular/high selling games. Off the top of my head, The Tomorrow Children is a game that looks incredibly unique gameplay wise.
There's a lot of games that were announced last year or this year that aren't similar to the current popular/high selling games. Off the top of my head, The Tomorrow Children is a game that looks incredibly unique gameplay wise.
While it's true that Nintendo's sequels, especially NSMB, have the tendency to be samey, my takeaway from this is that he's talking about different developers making different games that end up looking very similar or samey, whereas it's not the entire industry that's pumping out four player platformers with generic landscapes, it's just Nintendo. The AAA scene isn't currently over saturated with platformers.
Of course I don't agree with this being a bad thing because past the AAA giants, there's still plenty of variety coming from indies and smaller dev teams. Ubisoft can keep churning out Assassins Creeds if it means they'll still make Ubiart games. Plus as games get bigger, development prices are rising and the necessity to sell games and make money back increases.
Of course I don't agree with this being a bad thing because past the AAA giants, there's still plenty of variety coming from indies and smaller dev teams. Ubisoft can keep churning out Assassins Creeds if it means they'll still make Ubiart games. Plus as games get bigger, development prices are rising and the necessity to sell games and make money back increases.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Hey, tell that to these guys
While I deeply respect him:
Coffee Dog
Banned
Define "churning them out".
Did you even bother to read what he actually said or did you just read the title of the thread?
Yeah, one per console for each series is clearly "churning"
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I hate the NSMB series, but Mario 3D World is a top shelf, AAA+++ game.
flyinpiranha
Member
Completely disagree. Always will when it comes to this "everything is FPS" statement. I mean, you just have to LOOK.
In the past few months I have played:
Persona 4 Golden
Minecraft
Bravely Default
Guild Wars 2
Assassin's Creed IV
inFAMOUS SS
Assetto Corsa
World of Diving
Oculus Rift - HL2, Euro Truck 2, etc ...
Puzzles & Dragons
Trials Fusion
Pokemon Y
Zelda: ALBW
Witcher 2
Trine 2
And those are just the ones off the top of my head ... he said "in the industry" so I'm holding him to that, not just sales numbers or AAA heavily marketed games ...
If you can't be bothered to look, then don't bother commenting on how "stale" the industry is. I say it time and time again, at 38 I have more choices of what to play, more ways to play it, and a much larger variety on all fronts to choose from.
In the past few months I have played:
Persona 4 Golden
Minecraft
Bravely Default
Guild Wars 2
Assassin's Creed IV
inFAMOUS SS
Assetto Corsa
World of Diving
Oculus Rift - HL2, Euro Truck 2, etc ...
Puzzles & Dragons
Trials Fusion
Pokemon Y
Zelda: ALBW
Witcher 2
Trine 2
And those are just the ones off the top of my head ... he said "in the industry" so I'm holding him to that, not just sales numbers or AAA heavily marketed games ...
If you can't be bothered to look, then don't bother commenting on how "stale" the industry is. I say it time and time again, at 38 I have more choices of what to play, more ways to play it, and a much larger variety on all fronts to choose from.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
I'm not claiming they are superior, but they are notable differences between all of the CoDs that don't take much to see. I only said that because the guy you replied to didn't know how the other games played.
johnsavage
Member
ITT: People that just read the title and is looking for another reason to bash Nintendo.
I'm curious. Can you name another game like Splatoon? I can't think of any shooters where killing is not the goal. I guess this question isn't just directed at you. I want to know what other type of shooter exists, so if anyone knows please chime in.
I'm curious. Can you name another game like Splatoon? I can't think of any shooters where killing is not the goal. I guess this question isn't just directed at you. I want to know what other type of shooter exists, so if anyone knows please chime in.
Corronchilejano
Member
Treat them like Capcom has treated Megaman, against the wishes of its fans.
It's still a bad "gotcha".
You're still looking at one publisher (with a bunch of studios) as the main/sole representative in a genre versus several publishers and development studios (esp. when you consider the spinoffs like Hardline or the IW/Treyarch CoD back and forth) chasing the shooter dollar and aping each others' systems/mechanics.
It doesn't strike me that he's saying it's bad that CoD games are similar to CoD games, or that Mario games are similar to Mario games, but more that it's a problem that people are too busy aping the industry leader and playing it safe to make $$$ instead of doing something innovative (which is mostly an AAA problem, yes). CoD and spinoffs vs. Battlefield and spinoffs vs. MoH vs. Killzone -- and, to some extent, things like Titanfall or Halo fit the mold even if they are not "identical".
It's worth noting, of course, that this isn't the first or last time this sort of thing has happened -- see runs of bad JRPGs or many bad WoW-killer attempts -- but it's probably the first time it's happened at this level from the big pubs (to Ubisoft's credit, they still seem to attempt a lot of actually-unique stuff outside of their cash cow franchises instead of just going for derivatives).
It's not surprising that this thread would just devolve into people calling NSMB samey then high fiving each other.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I figured many people would jump in with "how many Mario games are there?"
I feel he isn't taking issue with any series of games, such as the Call of Duty or Halo series, but with the homogenous feel of games from different publishers and developers. I can't fathom how anyone with even a passing familiarity of modern games would not agree.
Remember this? Yeah, from four years ago. Little has changed.
Exactly.
Well he's not wrong though. I know (even though Miyamoto thinks he is a part of the problem) some of GAF will feel this is a pot calling the kettle black situation, but take a step back and there is some truth in it. Looking back at E3 (or the past few years) you'll mostly find big games targeted at the male 15-35 years demographic and honestly, at some point that gets boring. A certain portion of those games will sell incredibly well no doubt about it, but I guess Miyamoto feels that multiple publishers chasing the same type of genre will make the market a bit too predictable.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
This has happened too many times for me to believe mods don't step in until it's already too late because idiots are so quick to jump the gun, as this topic showcases.
It's a real problem and it rapidly shifts discussion away from the original topic. I hate how people feel the need to start pointing fingers and "calling someone out" for saying something despite that something being a legitimate issue.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
valentine71
Banned
Its an interesting phrase from someone who has developed video games with little to no innovation for the last 25 years while he had so much freedom and budget to be creative.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
uhh about 4, one for DS, one for wii, one for 3DS, and one for WiiU
Its interesting in the sense you can replace gaming with Hollywood in these terms. Doesn't mean their isn't a good 'indie' (and im not keen on that term) scene in cinema and tbh I think the 'indie' (which isn't really indie in the true meaning of the term) is the best in the (console) gaming industry its been for a decade IMO due to console online digital releases being viable and widespread.
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