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[XiaNaphryz]

DRM won.

Steam doesn't require DRM for any titles on the service, it's publisher/developer choice.

http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

 

[Grief.exe]

It's hard to take the fact seriously that as a publisher with costs that are massive higher than an indie pub who pays himself and a few friends, who has to keep his software value high, to put more resources against competing with 5 publishers at retail vs 1300 separate ones on digital?

And who was talking about the App Store at all? This thread is about Steam and the post I was replying to was for major publishers. The App Store Sells different content then Steam and has different models anyway.

That said... It's not like I'm speculating

Your definition of competing is thrown out the window when the games you are referring to have millions of dollars earmarked purely for marketing. The games being developed by a few friends have effectively zero marketing dollars.

Indie games are marketed by gameplay and word of mouth, sometimes mainstream media will pick up on them, but those examples are few and far between.

 

[Kageshinzo]

I swear, even if Valve releases a statement specifying that "active accounts are accounts who have played at least X hours every week for the past 30 days", some people will still try and spin a negative out of it.

 

[algert]

Where are you finding that 90 million number? All of this math is very intimidating but I'd still like to follow along!

That numbers just an estimation.

I understand where you're coming up with the total accounts but where are you getting number of unique PCs and the rest of the numbers you're stating here? Even if you want to discount the active account number, we can see just based on concurrent players of the games in the actual games list that the numbers are growing.

I estimated the number of unique computers by taking the total number of created accounts and dividing that by 2.1, which is an estimated average of Steam accounts created per Steam user. From there, I extrapolated from my installation estimate (assuming a 1:1 average ratio of unique Steam users to computers running Steam) that about half of all unique Steam users (including those who are not active) in a one month period spend a significant amount of time playing games through Steam.

There is an upward trend in Steam gamers over the last few years. Oddly, with the new "Discovery" UI update, it seems a little harder to discover the total number of users in-game, it seems that it isn't explicitly stated anymore, go figure. Anyway, DOTA2 is by far the largest single driving force behind the trend. I suspect there are also more people playing a smaller number of games, too. I expect less popular games will continue to shrink in population while the most popular titles such as CS:GO and DOTA2 will continue to grow. TF2 is the most interesting game to predict, I'm not sure if it will see a decline or a maintenance through 2015.

As compared to what? consoles? Are we taking bets on which has more users?

Compared to Steam, I think it's safe to assume that XBL and PSN both have more active (>5hr/month) users than Steam. This makes intuitive sense because they're both subscription services, while Steam is free.

Total number of accounts isn't of comparative value because they're free. This stat isn't even of particular use for directly calculating total users because individuals may make multiple accounts, which is undeniably the case with services like Steam, XBL, and PSN. Total or currently online (snapshot) comparisons don't tell the whole story either, since XBL and PSN are subscription services, while Steam is free. The best comparison between these gaming platforms is between those who are actually playing games (using a product). I'd be surprised if Steam has a greater percentage or total number of users spending a significant (>5hr/month) amount of time playing games relative to XBL or PSN. Free services like Steam should attract more users than subscription services, however they often need significantly more total users to have an equal number of customers. That said, Valve, Sony, and Microsoft don't make available their most-comparatively appropriate numbers, so we are all left to guess and estimate.

 

[tim.mbp]

That's a lot of titles (major) publishers have to compete against.
That's a lot of cheap titles (major)publishers can't afford to compete against.

Why compete against 1300 titles/indie publishers, when I can compete against 5 publishers and maybe 15 titles per month at retail?

I can buy signage in stores to raise awarness and have sales managers mention/incentivize my titles to casual shoppers with pre order swag at retail... i can't do any of that on Steam

Does Steam not sell placement? I know there's that popup that opens when Steam starts, 'featured' games, and banner sales like the last one for Warner Bros. I just assumed it was sold real estate.

 

[Vaporak]

That numbers just an estimation.



I estimated the number of unique computers by taking the total number of created accounts and dividing that by 2.1, which is an estimated average of Steam accounts created per Steam user. From there, I extrapolated from my installation estimate (assuming a 1:1 average ratio of unique Steam users to computers running Steam) that about half of all unique Steam users (including those who are not active) in a one month period spend a significant amount of time playing games through Steam.

There is an upward trend in Steam gamers over the last few years. Oddly, with the new "Discovery" UI update, it seems a little harder to discover the total number of users in-game, it seems that it isn't explicitly stated anymore, go figure. Anyway, DOTA2 is by far the largest single driving force behind the trend. I suspect there are also more people playing a smaller number of games, too. I expect less popular games will continue to shrink in population while the most popular titles such as CS:GO and DOTA2 will continue to grow. TF2 is the most interesting game to predict, I'm not sure if it will see a decline or a maintenance through 2015.




Compared to Steam, I think it's safe to assume that XBL and PSN both have more active (>5hr/month) users than Steam. This makes intuitive sense because they're both subscription services, while Steam is free.

Total number of accounts isn't of comparative value because they're free. This stat isn't even of particular use for directly calculating total users because individuals may make multiple accounts, which is undeniably the case with services like Steam, XBL, and PSN. Total or currently online (snapshot) comparisons don't tell the whole story either, since XBL and PSN are subscription services, while Steam is free. The best comparison between these gaming platforms is between those who are actually playing games (using a product). I'd be surprised if Steam has a greater percentage or total number of users spending a significant (>5hr/month) amount of time playing games relative to XBL or PSN. Free services like Steam should attract more users than subscription services, however they often need significantly more total users to have an equal number of customers. That said, Valve, Sony, and Microsoft don't make available their most-comparatively appropriate numbers, so we are all left to guess and estimate.

I just want this to be clear, you are admitting to making the numbers up with this post right?

 

[Chezzymann]

Logged in or played a game within 30 days

I haven't touched steam in months, yet I would be considered active because steam automatically boots up when I turn on my computer by default. So it might be a little misleading.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Yet PC gets neglected by big publishers for the sake of consoles...

I think it's because they can keep the price of console games up WAY longer than on the PC, which means more money and control.

 

[sega4ever]

It's hard to take the fact seriously that as a publisher with costs that are massive higher than an indie pub who pays himself and a few friends, who has to keep his software value high, to put more resources against competing with 5 publishers at retail vs 1300 separate ones on digital?

And who was talking about the App Store at all? This thread is about Steam and the post I was replying to was for major publishers. The App Store Sells different content then Steam and has different models anyway.

That said... It's not like I'm speculating

those big publishers have to compete with used games at retail.

 

[algert]

I just want this to be clear, you are admitting to making the numbers up with this post right?

Absolutely, they're only estimations.

 

[SparkTR]

I haven't touched steam in months, yet I would be considered active because steam automatically boots up when I turn on my computer by default. So it might be a little misleading.

I don't think it does that automatically anymore. Regardless you would have been considered 'Active' for the last count, and the one before that most likely (if you played a game on your account during that time). The rate of growth is still immense despite that.

 

[Zeyphersan]

I haven't touched steam in months, yet I would be considered active because steam automatically boots up when I turn on my computer by default. So it might be a little misleading.

Of course you're active, you logged in

Assuming PSN uses the same stats, every time I turn my PS3 on it logs me in. Doesn't matter if I'm playing online or not, I'm active

 

[John Harker]

I'm not clear on this. Are you complaining that game development is expensive? Because that's really not a Steam problem. Are you complaining that we consumers buy games on Steam instead of going to a store to buy them? Because the horse bolted that barn a good decade ago.

I'm not complaining about anything.
I was simply stating perspective to a poster I quoted, who was making a statement regarding major publishers and Steam. I took that to be asking, "with those numbers, why aren't majoe publishers investing more in their PC games?" - to which I provided the answer.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Just by knowing that we'll get the MGS series & Silent hills, im starting to have hope in console developers to stop ignoring one of the biggest market. Capcom has to port Dragon's dogma and Atlus has to start looking at it. Hell, everyone!.

I really don't see ATLUS releasing stuff for PC, but Capcom should totally release Dragon's Dogma and maybe even actual good Monster Hunter titles for PC.

 

[vazel]

Well deserved popularity. At first I was apprehensive about a Steam monopoly but now I've come to see it as a good thing so that PC gaming can thrive.

 

[John Harker]

Your definition of competing is thrown out the window when the games you are referring to have millions of dollars earmarked purely for marketing. The games being developed by a few friends have effectively zero marketing dollars.

Indie games are marketed by gameplay and word of mouth, sometimes mainstream media will pick up on them, but those examples are few and far between.

But that's my point. They get equal shelf space to me on digital store fronts. And there's no sales person telling them to buy my game. I can spend money because I have money to do all those things at retail, and still bring in $60 in revenue per sale and only compete with basically 5 other publishers. My games are more visible. And it not, I can pay for them to be. Digital store fronts have a long way to go to make casual shopping easier for the masses.

So, I spend my big budgets on traditional retail and focus my marketing dollars there and then make a Pc version and either drop it day and date or a little later when it's done, to cover the platform but it's more incremental revenue to me than my biggest income so I allocate my spending according to the ROi.

The biggest games on Steam aren't the $60 big publisher games. Can people really not see me as simply attacking something? I like... Don't really do that

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

That's a lot of Dota

 

[KissVibes]

I would like to know how many unique users Steam actually has. I have four steam accounts.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Good times. About to drop some more scratch on them October 15th, too.

I'm looking at you Japan!

Yum yum, come getcha some!

 

[Denton]

Absolutely insane growth rate. Good on Valve, they keep making it better so no wonder.

 

[Drkirby]

That's a lot of Dota

Dota is "only" 10%. It has 9.5 Million Active users in the last month.

 

[alexandros]

It's an impressive number, even more so if we take into account that we're one year into the next generation of game consoles, a time when historically a lot of gamers gravitate towards them. Steam has apparently managed to come out of the next gen launch practically unscathed, a noteworthy feat by itself.

 

[John Harker]

Does Steam not sell placement? I know there's that popup that opens when Steam starts, 'featured' games, and banner sales like the last one for Warner Bros. I just assumed it was sold real estate.

Marketing units don't really work the same way as say, advertising units on psn or Xbox. Those marketing units can be bartered or done with special promotions or whatever, not really like straight media buys

 

[Grief.exe]

Does Steam not sell placement? I know there's that popup that opens when Steam starts, 'featured' games, and banner sales like the last one for Warner Bros. I just assumed it was sold real estate.

When ARMA III was released, Bohemia said they just had to email Valve with the images and dates for the banner ad.

 

[Denton]

Well deserved popularity. At first I was apprehensive about a Steam monopoly but now I've come to see it as a good thing so that PC gaming can thrive.

Steam isn't, hasn't ever been, and never will be, a monopoly. Only way for it to become one would be if the government declared it so and forbade everyone else from existing on or entering the market. Steam definitely is a dominant player though, and for many good reasons, like having a vision and the ability to execute on it extremely well and ahead of everyone else.

 

[xenist]

How many are bots?

DRM won.

Half are probably DOTA alts.

Here. Next person to make a thread about Steam, feel free to add these to your OP so the discussion can continue.

 

[vazel]

Steam isn't, hasn't ever been, and never will be, a monopoly. Only way for it to become one would be if the government declared it so and forbade everyone else from existing on or entering the market. Steam definitely is a dominant player though, and for many good reasons, like having a vision and the ability to execute on it extremely well and ahead of everyone else.

Well yea by the strictest definition that is what a monopoly is, but I think most know what I mean.

 

[Denton]

Well yea by the strictest definition that is what a monopoly is, but I think most know what I mean.

I know, I just dislike the general misuse of the word, sorry

 

[-MD-]

Here. Next person to make a thread about Steam, feel free to add these to your OP so the discussion can continue.

Discussions seemed to be continuing on just fine.

 

[Einbroch]

More people are playing games.

That's always a good thing.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

All dem scam accounts.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Obviously, Valve are lying to their numbers to hide the fact that PC gaming is dying.

 

[Belgorim]

Impressive.

I really hope their competition will get similar growth as well. PC needs to be an open platform with choices.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

PC is huge and this growth won't lose steam any time soon.



Why does PSN has so many more accounts than Live? Was most of that just because multiplayer was free on PS3?

PSN consists of handhelds and consoles. PSN is also free for everyone aside from PS4 for online multi-player. To me what is impressive is the amount of growth and how many Steam accounts have been logged in at one time.

 

[Jonneh3003]

If anything i've lost interest in Steam this year and shifted towards console gaming, can't say there have been many new PC titles that have grabbed my attention recently

 

[spekkeh]

Active = The account was signed in to at least once in the last 30 days. It's a far more concrete metric than anything from Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.

And you shouldn't directly compare numbers from Valve to numbers from a console because the metrics aren't the same. The interesting and relevant statistic is the growth in active Steam accounts over time.

It's impressive, though Steam launches with your PC most of the times, so active is somewhat euphemistic (still it takes out the three different Steam accounts I have on old systems). I log into three current different accounts on a regular basis, but rarely play. Should probably take it off auto start with Windows hehe. Though all three do have purchased games on them so that says something.

 

[FeiRR]

I hope this growth means they will pay more attention to customer relations in future. Because now it's terrible from my perspective.

 

[JaseC]

In the interest of clarity, Valve defines an active account as one which has been used in the past 30 days and has a purchased at least one piece of content (retail keys probably count also as if you visit your account page you'll see that they key activations are displayed under the Store Transaction tab as a CD key "transaction").

 

[BibiMaghoo]

40% CSGO smurf accounts.

 

[danielcw]

I have 17 of those accounts, and it is getting more

 

[Saty]

In the interest of clarity, Valve defines an active account as one which has been used in the past 30 days and has a purchased at least one piece of content (retail keys probably count also as if you visit your account page you'll see that they key activations are displayed under the Store Transaction tab as a CD key "transaction").

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100504982&postcount=59

They changed the definition. This is what they said in SDD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcrmTXb92DE&feature=player_detailpage#t=84

An active user is a user who owns a product or have been active in the community in the last 90 days.

 

[JaseC]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100504982&postcount=59

They changed the definition. This is what they said in SDD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcrmTXb92DE&feature=player_detailpage#t=84

An active user is a user who owns a product or have been active in the community in the last 90 days.

Ah, that'd certainly explain the (relatively) big jump at the beginning of the year: from 65 million last November (I'm rounding up a day; sue me ) to 75 million in mid-January.

 

[sirap]

God damn.

I wish EA put their games on Steam. They don't even have to stop Origins, just offer cheaper prices if you buy it there. Let your consumers make the choice.

 

[Teeth]

Absolutely, they're only estimations.

What are the principles that your estimations are based on? The principles of needing them to fit your narrative?

You can't possibly think that people are stupid enough to just swallow your horseshit numbers as viable, right?

In what universe is the average number of Steam accounts per user over two? You're saying there's a ton of people with four or five Steam accounts? Just for giggles? Because I haven't heard of anyone with more than one. Except that one guy in the Steam thread that couldn't possibly fathom having a bad game on his account so he abandoned the whole thing and started fresh.

You're actually postulating that people have multiple Steam accounts that they regularly log into during the month? Based on what?

EDIT: Well, except for Spekkeh above. I couldn't fathom a reason why though.

 

[JaseC]

God damn.

I wish EA put their games on Steam. They don't even have to stop Origins, just offer cheaper prices if you buy it there. Let your consumers make the choice.

I still believe that, in due time, EA will brings its Origin titles to Steam with Uplayesque Origin integration.

 

[spekkeh]

I'm a game scientist and occasionally run mods for experiments, also tinker around with other games at work and at home. I'm definitely not a prototypical user . But a number of others also said they had multiple accounts, not sure why though.

 

[Usobuko]

Actually if you play MMO on steam, you're likely to have 2 or more. Unless you're not that kind to make mule accounts.

At least that's what I did back then.

 

[Astro Racer]

Steam doesn't require DRM for any titles on the service, it's publisher/developer choice.

Steam IS DRM.

 

[Fattony12000]

I just want them to make the Steam tray icon animated again, like in the old days.

;(

 

[MUnited83]

Steam IS DRM.

No, it isn't, and it's time for people to stop spouting that bullshit once again.