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Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
The Broken Ska Record
Member
UNtil this thread, I didn't even realize the grimoire cards were a story thing. I thought it was just extra stuff to collect.
If we do it'd probably after the game's been out for quite awhile, or if the series gets axed prematurely.
This definitely seems like a theory made up by putting together several pieces together (lead writer left nearly a year before launch, grimoire cards mostly written up in the lead charge to release) so that at a minimum it does seem true that there were serious issues where someone was either indecisive or outright changed their minds on where the story should go. Disappointing given the initial premise sounded like it could've made for an interesting story rather than a load of nothing.
Symax
Member
fixed
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Yeah. AAA games don't usually have very good stories, but it's quite telling that Destiny's story is incomprehensibly bad even by the standards of AAA games. There's no way this was just your average "oh we changed some stuff in development" sort of situation. There's no way this was intentional. No major game studio would set out to produce a narrative like Destiny's.
I actually like the ham fisted simplicity of Destiny's story. It's almost charmingly stupid. I know I'm going to get shit for this but it reminds me of the 5th element in the way it takes itself so seriously that you can't possibly believe it's taking itself seriously... And that makes it fun.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
This sounds like a bunch of speculation.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I wish I could have waited a few years after the expansions and patching of shit in this game to play it, I kinda like what is going on in the grimore cards. I would like to see Jupiter and Saturn moon expansions sooner but this whole thing seems like it will take years to come about. I cannot read what was in the OP link but the game is pretty fun gameplay wise and for not being a FPS fan that is saying a lot.
A lot of OG Bungie/early Halo Bungie still remains. Destiny is Jason Jone's baby, co-founder of Bungie and its first programmer.
Perhaps an issue here is the small-ish Halo Bungie team exploding into hundreds of members as they grew for Destiny.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Which makes the departure of the lead writer so noteworthy.
Crow is almost definitely the "out here in the wild" guy from the E3 2013 trailer, right? There's some other cut/edited content in this trailer too, including a shot of Saturn. Maybe that was originally supposed to be a playable location at launch?
ShinobiFist
Banned
My man....Holy fuck, LMAO #FACTS
Are you talking about this one?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...infoil_hats_i_have/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
LyleLanley
Banned
He may be an awful writer but he seems to have been replaced with an even worse writer.
Bry0
Member
Because it is, but I personally feel the evidence is pretty substantial, especially if you look at the pre-release material with glimpses of all these story bits that weren't in the game. Just like that notorious 2008 video of Diablo 3 that had skill trees that were cut, as well as the spell modifying runes that were cut (last second as well, since it is outlined in the collectors edition dvd)
Unfortunately it sounds like Bungie had issues internally and had to make cuts and last minute changes like Blizzard did. IMO The parallels between Diablo 3 and Destiny are undeniable. Really unfortunate, but regardless both games are pretty fun anyway.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
You and I both, I thought how cool a sci-fi game set in our solar system... The world is crafted beautifully and the gunplay is top notch which both save the game.
Imru al-Qays;132099566 said:
There are so few cut scenes in the final game. Which in itself isn't an issue, but in a game as story led as Destiny, is telling. I sat there baffled during the biggest cutscene, which is the brief moment you meet the Reff Queen. For this scene to be scripted, there must have been an actual story/script/narrative where it makes some sense.
It wouldn't surprise me if there were a few hours of unpublished cutscenes on Bungie's cutting room floor.
The only other game I've played which has a plot, but feels as disjointed and incomprehensible as Destiny, is Lost Planet 2. Likewise, that game felt like random levels that didn't related to each other.
Gully State
Member
Wow this sounds so similar to what happened with Bioshock: Infinite.
Worse writer(s) it seems.
Never write by committee. I remember Frankie (now head of 343, I think?) being outspoken about how Halo 2's failure as a story came from writing by committee.
Inceptional
Member
It's a very slippery slope we've been on for a while and this gutting the game and selling it as DLC is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae we've been fed for years now by greedy publishers. I've never bought a single piece of DLC in my life and never plan to. It's like buying a movie and being told to pay another $5 here or $10 there in order to see deleted/extended scenes.
Also, all these $20-$30 season passes are complete bullshit and unbelievable rip-offs. We're basically being charged almost $100 just to be able to play a full game these days. I mean, what the fucking fuck!
Also, all these $20-$30 season passes are complete bullshit and unbelievable rip-offs. We're basically being charged almost $100 just to be able to play a full game these days. I mean, what the fucking fuck!
Greg Kirkpatrick was the writer for the Marathon series. He actually left Bungie after Marathon 2 to form Double Aught along with several other former Bungie employees, but was still writing for Marathon Infinity (Double Aught worked on Infinity's campaign).
Joe Staten was the main writer on the Halo games. Obviously Halo isn't really known for its dialogue, but in its own way I think the Halo games tend to have very good storytelling on the whole. Very strong narrative structure across all aspects of the game.
(Staten of course left during Destiny's development.)
Maintenance
Member
Thanks for the info, that's why i said it was probably that, not definitely. Still, strange to see a great company like Bungie doing something like this.
Like others have said though, note-worthy people have left in recent times.
Some stayed on for 343 to continue the Halo Series. Some were fired, like Marty, Bungie's composer. Some quit, like Joseph Staten, writer of the Halo games. Not a Rare/Bioware case, but it's definitely not Halo 1 Bungie that's for sure.
Edit: It's also important to note that Staten left Bungie to work for 343, aka leaving the Destiny franchise to go back to the Halo franchise.
I feel you I said this to myself the other day. Shits crazy.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Whether this is true or not, somewthing clearly went wrong with Destiny. The story isn't just bad, its almost nonexistent. I can't help thinking that they needed another few months, maybe even another year in the oven.
OniBarubary
Banned
Ah, thank you for that, that makes a lot of sense now. Unfortunate he never wrote anything else. 1 and 2 have some very strong storytelling chops.
Huh? Infinite's story was great. What supposedly happened?
I've got a grimoire score of 2115, and you can be sure as shit that I have not bothered to fill in the ridiculous blanks in the game's awful narrative by visiting an external website or mobile app.
No idea what happened to Destiny in its final months, but it's not hard to see that someone rather messily took a scalpel to it.
Always thought it odd that the boss for the House of Winter mission on Venus calls out "don't shoot!" and other baddies seem to refer to you as the Darkness in their garbled exclamations.
Pretty sure I read about a 2013 or so closed door press event showing off some story tidbits involving Crow (the Awoken Queen's brother?) explaining to some Guardians (including the player's character) that the Darkness actually comes from the Traveler and that it is actually responsible for the Collapse of the Golden Era.
Though, of course, they could have just been pulling that out of their asses as well. Still, it's quite clear that what we got is woefully incomplete, and that there's more to blame here than locking content out for future expansions.
Nothing made sense, nothing is resolved. Plot points are introduced and never referred to again. Not even the main concern of a dormant Traveler. The Traveler, the Ghosts, the Light, the Guardians, Rasputin/Warmind, the motivations of ANY of the alien factions (Fallen, Hive, Vex, Cabal), the Hive's distant machine god and their plans for the fragment of the Traveler they possessed, the Archive, the Black Garden, the Reef, the Awoken, Old Chicago, Mercury, non-Guardians such as the Stranger, anything outside our Solar System or galaxy.
All of these disparate elements are introduced, and a few are tenuously linked (Fallen - Archive, Cabal - Rasputin, Vex - Black Garden), but no single element actually sees any rational development. And then the game just ends, without having bothered answering any questions at all, or indeed, recalling that any questions were even posed in the first place. It's utterly flabbergasting. Halo was hardly compelling stuff, but at least it was somewhat cohesive and consistent, even if consistently disappointing from a narrative standpoint. Destiny is shattered and clearly incomplete.
No idea what happened to Destiny in its final months, but it's not hard to see that someone rather messily took a scalpel to it.
Always thought it odd that the boss for the House of Winter mission on Venus calls out "don't shoot!" and other baddies seem to refer to you as the Darkness in their garbled exclamations.
Pretty sure I read about a 2013 or so closed door press event showing off some story tidbits involving Crow (the Awoken Queen's brother?) explaining to some Guardians (including the player's character) that the Darkness actually comes from the Traveler and that it is actually responsible for the Collapse of the Golden Era.
Though, of course, they could have just been pulling that out of their asses as well. Still, it's quite clear that what we got is woefully incomplete, and that there's more to blame here than locking content out for future expansions.
Nothing made sense, nothing is resolved. Plot points are introduced and never referred to again. Not even the main concern of a dormant Traveler. The Traveler, the Ghosts, the Light, the Guardians, Rasputin/Warmind, the motivations of ANY of the alien factions (Fallen, Hive, Vex, Cabal), the Hive's distant machine god and their plans for the fragment of the Traveler they possessed, the Archive, the Black Garden, the Reef, the Awoken, Old Chicago, Mercury, non-Guardians such as the Stranger, anything outside our Solar System or galaxy.
All of these disparate elements are introduced, and a few are tenuously linked (Fallen - Archive, Cabal - Rasputin, Vex - Black Garden), but no single element actually sees any rational development. And then the game just ends, without having bothered answering any questions at all, or indeed, recalling that any questions were even posed in the first place. It's utterly flabbergasting. Halo was hardly compelling stuff, but at least it was somewhat cohesive and consistent, even if consistently disappointing from a narrative standpoint. Destiny is shattered and clearly incomplete.
Shits crazy because the game broke records on hype alone. I wonder what others think who dont frequent game forums.
Princess Carl
Member
It honestly feels as if I've spent $60 on a tutorial/demo.
The mechanics are all present for me to learn and enjoy. In terms of gameplay, I'm having fun. But I'm having fun in the same capacity that I was as a twelve year-old repeatedly playing the demo for Tony Hawk's Pro Skater on a demo disc because I didn't have enough birthday money to buy the full game.
I can only hope that story content will arrive in some capacity outside of paid DLC. Any enjoyment from gameplay mechanics alone cannot possibly take this series to its goal of being a decade-long franchise.
The mechanics are all present for me to learn and enjoy. In terms of gameplay, I'm having fun. But I'm having fun in the same capacity that I was as a twelve year-old repeatedly playing the demo for Tony Hawk's Pro Skater on a demo disc because I didn't have enough birthday money to buy the full game.
I can only hope that story content will arrive in some capacity outside of paid DLC. Any enjoyment from gameplay mechanics alone cannot possibly take this series to its goal of being a decade-long franchise.
I said it before and I will say it again: content was definitely cut from this game before release. Bungie are not the most well known for their story telling but they are not incompetent. They don't construct stories in such a manner where from beginning, middle, and end, nothing made sense.
Looking at their past Halo games, I could name several characters from the Halo universe and describe who and what they are. Destiny? I still can't think of ONE freaking name despite the game still being fresh in my mind.
That's not the Bungie most of us know I think. SOMETHING definitely happened in development whether this theory holds up or not. There is no way Bungie of all developers would drop the ball so hard on the narrative front to such a big budgeted title like this without something going wrong during development like the quitting of their lead writer and the firing of their main and well loved music composer.
Looking at their past Halo games, I could name several characters from the Halo universe and describe who and what they are. Destiny? I still can't think of ONE freaking name despite the game still being fresh in my mind.
That's not the Bungie most of us know I think. SOMETHING definitely happened in development whether this theory holds up or not. There is no way Bungie of all developers would drop the ball so hard on the narrative front to such a big budgeted title like this without something going wrong during development like the quitting of their lead writer and the firing of their main and well loved music composer.
outunderthestars
Banned
I feel the same way. I was so excited for the game and was incredibly underwhelmed by the experience of actually playing it. It might be the biggest gaming letdown for me in the last ten years.
In my interactions on XBL, and friends I know that aren't on game forums, it's pretty much the same. Paper thin story.
Key difference is that ME had a lot going on with the story that wasn't what people wanted in the end. This meanwhile is a whole lot of nothing going by everyone's comments.
Destiny's storytelling really is terrible. It's all very George Lucas style, surface and buzzwords. You're shooting at aliens to save Earth but not even once do you even see one of these people living there, you're just told they exist. You never talk to anyone with a face except the mysteriously antagonistic space elves with no discernible motives. None of the enemies ever engage you in any way to even talk to you, like the enemies in Halo or someone like Harbinger in ME2. You have no stakes at all in the story, nothing to connect to. No one to root for, no one to hate, not even anyone to mildly dislike. They know you're there only to shoot things because theyh might drop a glowing loot box. The things that might be interesting, like the Warmind, are dropped without comment when you move on to the next map so you never learn anything of the game world throughout the story. I don't even count the grimoire cards because if they're not available in the game itself, they don't exist to me.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Majority probably enjoying getting together with friends and shooting stuff. It's not a wholly bad experience in that respect.
I think the ultimate test will be finding out just how many are playing in a few months. A lot probably do enjoy it because, well, it's not a TERRIBLE game just going by the beta alone, nevermind the fact reviews don't normally dip below 5 (not sure if any have) which is the zone that's indisputably bad. But if it's not really holding people we'll probably see it in quick sales, lower player counts, and perhaps the DLC not properly rejuvenating the game. Then the sequel that will be the ultimate test.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
GoTY
That situation is not comparable at all to this one. The ME games narrative was praised for the most part and well received. Many people even agree that they enjoyed most of Mass Effect 3. It's just the was a total abomination to an otherwise well written, well lored out and compelling narrative.
Destiny...there is nothing. We still have no idea who the hell these Hive/Legionaries/Fallen people are or where they came from. What there motivations are, who the hell Speaker is and what the hell happened to the world/universe hundreds of years ago. How the hell or why the hell did my character die for god knows how long? What the hell is the name of that girl who "doesn't have time to explain why she doesn't have time to explain"?
It's just "go here, kill this, hold X/square to open this door/computer and kill more incoming aliens". Everything about Destiny's story is lacking comprehension and many basic elements of story telling. It's frustrating for someone like me who enjoys games for the stories as well.
Long story short: Mass Effect, despite a god awful ending to an otherwise great and compelling narrative experience, does not compare to Destiny's jumbled out mess of a story.
What's interesting is that they have a long history of cutting stuff and barely making launch. Halo 1 and 2 were a mess in that regard. With Destiny being a more ambitious game in four platforms it's no wonder it has issues.
Except Infinite make changes to gameplay and managed to incorporate some of the story elements from the trailers into the final game.
AgentOtaku
Member
Fantastic post!
Pattycakes
Banned
This is all sad for me. So much potentional squandered by a veteran studio that should have known better. I honestly don't see how Destiny can recover from the story problems, unless Bungie does an entire rework which it won't. At this point I think they can just hope that they redeem themselves by delivering a great story in Destiny 2 and somehow convince people to purchase the game.
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