neogaffer1
Banned
I don't see why some people are calling this unlikely? The story I posted in the other thread lines up with this pretty well and there's sufficient evidence in videos from 2013 to give some water to this theory.
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Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I knew there was a problem with the story when I found myself on the moon and wondered why I was on the moon when it felt like I still had a lot of stuff to do on earth.
Story in its current state is almost non existent, but who's to say all this supposed cut story is not going to happen.
The current story has you run through and
Who's to say it doesn't work begin the cycle of the story that everyone's going on about? just because you already have to get a
in one mission doesn't mean you won't need to do it again.
The current story has you run through and
return light to the traveller
Who's to say it doesn't work begin the cycle of the story that everyone's going on about? just because you already have to get a
gatelords head
JetBlackPanda
Member
Tycho.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Yikes. This oddly hits home for me.
But yeah, if there's going to be a Destiny 2, it really shouldn't be anything like the first one. Keep the gun mechanics and the overall art design--chunk everything else because Bungie clearly screwed the pooch.
arhra
Member
Marathon was written primarily by Greg Kirkpatrick, who left after Marathon 2 and helped found Double Aught, who were in charge of most of Marathon Infinity's scenario/storyline, and then seemingly faded into obscurity after Double Aught failed to get their standalone project off the ground after that.
aygomyownroad
Member
After the Halo series I was expecting an epic story but I have been seriously underwhelmed.
It's an average game, and although people are claiming fan fiction etc of this reddit piece, much like mass effect 3, if the story wasn't so bad we wouldn't need to question everything about it and make excuses as to what went wrong.
This is my last week of destiny, too many games out this month and this game was just a filler for September that had let me down
It's an average game, and although people are claiming fan fiction etc of this reddit piece, much like mass effect 3, if the story wasn't so bad we wouldn't need to question everything about it and make excuses as to what went wrong.
This is my last week of destiny, too many games out this month and this game was just a filler for September that had let me down
JetBlackPanda
Member
Someone posted this too so it's also likely the story before the cut was really bad
Regardless of whatever has been gutted from the original narrative of Destiny, you know you fucked up as a writer when everything in your fictional universe is referred to as NOUNS. E.g.
- The Guardians
- The Traveler
- The Darkness
- The Light
- The Fallen
- The Vex
OrlanisWorks
Banned
Doesn't even matter. There ain't anything they can do to save the story except make the sequel good.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Unfortunately, I have no problem believing this to be true. Bungie made grand promises about storyline and the entire Destiny universe and there are almost glimpses of an incredible lore underneath the pile of shit that is Destiny's "story", but I had this nagging feeling that something went terribly wrong during the development which caused storytelling to turn out all wrong.
I assumed they massacred the story so they could sell it as DLC, but this also makes sense.
I assumed they massacred the story so they could sell it as DLC, but this also makes sense.
I like Destiny but I really wish it had a better story. It's so, so bad and the universe they created just screams to be dived into and explored. It's like Mass Effect without any of the dialog and lore the first game had.
Very sad, I always enjoyed the lore of Halo before 343, and still do even though I don't have a Xbox anymore.
I still would love Bungie to do a single-player game someday, I think it would allow them to really tell a grand story without falling into a mess due to juggling so many things at once (especially if they found the right publisher for a smaller title). I dunno if they would be willing to try that though considering their multiplayer fame.
I still would love Bungie to do a single-player game someday, I think it would allow them to really tell a grand story without falling into a mess due to juggling so many things at once (especially if they found the right publisher for a smaller title). I dunno if they would be willing to try that though considering their multiplayer fame.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
I think it makes more sense, honestly. If they massacred the story to sell it as DLC they would have left a core nugget of good story (probably with a cliffhanger ending) in the game to convince people the DLC was worth their while.
arhra
Member
He's actually not at 343 specifically - he's at Microsoft Studios, seemingly with some kind of higher-level role with oversight over multiple first-party franchises, at least according to his linkedin:
Given the legacy of his work on Halo, his strength seems to be the higher-level worldbuilding and overall narrative structure (and his true calling, of course; voicing grunts), rather than actually writing dialogue or individual scenes, so that's probably a good fit for him.
Let's just hope that 343 can get him back in the sound booth for Halo 5.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
No that's not the problem, I kind of like the blank generic names for everything. It gives you a sense that this could be a high fantasy story set in sci-fi instead of in your standard swords and sorcery scenario.
The real fucking problem is that there are only like 2 things on that list that get any form of actual exposition. I know what each of those things are in the same way I know Tunisia and Rwanda are different countries, But I don't know anything about ANYTHING
Here is a wall of questions the game raises
What is the darkness? Is it a physical manifestation of some evil energy? Where is it coming from? Why do the Fallen and the Cabal bring it forward? Are the cabal and the fallen even harbingers of the darkness? Why are the Fallen and the Cabal even fighting us? What are the awoken? What are exo's? Why was the Guardian who can be a human, awoken or exo that was dead for hundreds of years be found on earth? Why can the ghosts revive the guardian? Why did the vex come back in time if they exist in all times to kill the traveler? Why didn't they just attack earth, it seems pretty exposed? Who is the queen? Why doesn't she work with earth? Why does the stranger just leave at the end without actually doing anything? Why does the moon have an atmosphere? Why is there only one city on earth? What does the traveler want to do? What is inside the traveler? Why does each guardian get a ghost? What does it mean to be guardian, do we have special powers other beings don't have? Does the earth have an army or are they only guardians? Why do awoken live on the reef alone if they're also in the tower? Nothing in this game gives me answers just more fucking questions.
The more of the story I play (I just reached Mars) the more I could go along witg this theory. I have a feeling quite a lot of stuff got cut before shipping - in the first preview video the app had some stats and UI for your ship, which in game you can only apply cosmetic changes to.
Bear in mind Bungie built ship combat into a level in Halo Reach - whilst Destiny was already in development - and it seems really suspicious to me that they went to that effort for 1/3 level in a game they were contractually obliged to deliver and then didn't include it in their space faring MMO where you own and upgrade a ship! Clearly this is speculation on my part
Bear in mind Bungie built ship combat into a level in Halo Reach - whilst Destiny was already in development - and it seems really suspicious to me that they went to that effort for 1/3 level in a game they were contractually obliged to deliver and then didn't include it in their space faring MMO where you own and upgrade a ship! Clearly this is speculation on my part
I don't have a PS4, don't know if the OP is true and never played Destiny, but what I'm reading about it everywhere is so fucking sad that makes me want jump out of this hobby.
I can't understand that they had so many problems to define this game to the media as they had when it just looks like a horde mode with some corridors. In every trailer an epic atmosphere was created, a small piece of a huge lore was shown and an interesting start for the will of exploration of this lore was planted. Now it turns out the lore is a crappy iphone app and the game is like another gaffer said, a demo for PS1 that you play over and over again with a tremendous lack of the content they promised.
It just feels like such a wasted opportunity that makes me angry, because the only reason I see why Bungie would do this is to make high managers happy with a huge amount of cash based on meaningless DLC.
I can't understand that they had so many problems to define this game to the media as they had when it just looks like a horde mode with some corridors. In every trailer an epic atmosphere was created, a small piece of a huge lore was shown and an interesting start for the will of exploration of this lore was planted. Now it turns out the lore is a crappy iphone app and the game is like another gaffer said, a demo for PS1 that you play over and over again with a tremendous lack of the content they promised.
It just feels like such a wasted opportunity that makes me angry, because the only reason I see why Bungie would do this is to make high managers happy with a huge amount of cash based on meaningless DLC.
Huge amount of pure speculation there. Might be right but if so there's not enough evidence to prove it.
For the moment I find it easier to assume Joe Staten left because he had no interest in where Bungie were going (and would be going for a while) with Destiny as regards story and narrative - as in a very light backdrop context narrative for an MMO styled game with various unrelated "missions" serving as a "narrative". I doubt writing little snippets to put on cards appealed either.
I would out of interest be curious to know a lot more true behind the scenes elements of Destiny design, how/when certain decisions were made and their implications.
For the moment I find it easier to assume Joe Staten left because he had no interest in where Bungie were going (and would be going for a while) with Destiny as regards story and narrative - as in a very light backdrop context narrative for an MMO styled game with various unrelated "missions" serving as a "narrative". I doubt writing little snippets to put on cards appealed either.
I would out of interest be curious to know a lot more true behind the scenes elements of Destiny design, how/when certain decisions were made and their implications.
JCreasy
Member
This.
No one has considered that the original story might have been obscenely terrible. What if that was the reason Staten left?
I love the lore by the way. The world built here is intriguing and I find myself thinking about it when I'm not playing.
It would be an answered prayer to have a great television writer come in and write a proper story based on all this rich material. Where are the Battlestar Galactica writers these days?
It's like she has time to explain why she doesnt have time to explain why she doesnt have time to explain.
Imru al-Qays;132105215 said:
The problem I see here is that the lack of more compelling content can make people avoid the season pass. I haven't got it yet and I'll decide if it's worth of not after the first DLC pack arrives. If they don't add any free update I may jump ship though. I think the number of strikes and the raid is enough (most MMOs have the same or less high end content), but other stuff is lacking. They should try to add more levels in between, (skipable) cutscenes and levels should hype the player and make him want to go to strikes to kick assess. Some chains of quests for patroll that give some back story for the different factions would be cool too. They could use blue light instead of the normal green one or other similar stuff.
They're not going to turn Destiny into a masterpiece but they should try to fill gaps into the story. And more missions where you do cool stuff like the one with the sword to hook players.
Friends of mine that bought the game told me that it was bad but didn't care since it was fun or that simply they didn't understand what the hell was going on. I don't think we are dumber or smarter than the average people. Gaf just fell harder into the hype machine so they are angrier.
A Final Hours Of Destiny could be pretty great. Getting a talk with Joe Staten and Marty about what happened and then how development went over the last year could be really interesting.
This theory is better than the default scenario when there's a lack of evidence pointing toward anything alternative to the default:
Bungie's vision for the story is what we have in Destiny, and their vision was just shitty as hell beyond belief.
So for Bungie's sake, I hope this theory is at least on the right track.
Bungie's vision for the story is what we have in Destiny, and their vision was just shitty as hell beyond belief.
So for Bungie's sake, I hope this theory is at least on the right track.
rand0mZer0
Banned
Same. The gameplay is fine, which is why I'm still going about with the bounties and whatnot. I bought the Special Edition so I'll undoubtedly play the expansions but as far as this being the only game I play for the next couple of months? That's probably not gonna happen. There's no spirit to this game, no reason to keep going and playing and get better weapons, armor, etc. Just lifeless.
ValeYard
Member
And this leak through a glitch regarding the new DLC (Youtube Video) isn't giving me much hope that the story will be 'expanded' upon soon, although the Ancient AI and something about the Traveler seem to be in there if you read the mission descriptions.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I'm in the camp that says it sounds plausible but not enough evidence to be sure.
To honestly cut that amount of work and have to scramble to rework what they have must have been a huge decision both in terms of money spent and morale at bungie.
I'm starting to think what they had originally may not have been very good and that this blank state they approached your character and the world worked better than a story that would have turned people away rather than the almost no Impact it has now.
To honestly cut that amount of work and have to scramble to rework what they have must have been a huge decision both in terms of money spent and morale at bungie.
I'm starting to think what they had originally may not have been very good and that this blank state they approached your character and the world worked better than a story that would have turned people away rather than the almost no Impact it has now.
Damn. Before I read this, I was hoping Bungie would add to the story by adding missions in updates to actually, you know, answer the questions, but from reading this, it seems the story is missing from beginning to end, not after. It could also answer why the boxes say you need 40GB+ but only installs around...half I believe?
Yeah, I think you can now put me in the camp that thinks Destiny is the biggest game that failed to meet expectations for a while too. I still enjoy it for the "Grind race to 30 with all my characters" as well as exotic hunting...For now, simply because I have friends playing it and I have nothing else really to play on it yet.
Story wise however, I will say I feel Bungie are much better than this. I think it's just sickening they aren't even acknowledging this MAJOR flaw too. Literally all it does is pose questions. I don't even know if there's a way to fix it really. They could add missions, but from the looks of it, they would take place during the campaign and would probably require another play through for it to all make sense.
Worse again yet "We want Destiny to be a game you play for a long time". Not seeing that happening bungie. If all the game has is to replay everything to grind to 30, and/or get cool gear, I'm not sure why I'd be happy with that. DLC I'll probably play, but I'm not seeing it being like Borderlands was to me, which I played and still am playing (when I feel like it), a ton of.
I bet whenever the next big thing is out will make me forget about Destiny for at least a while and that's a real shame, had a lot of potential. I literally thought at the end of the campaign, maybe they're adding more later to keep people on consistently, but think I'm starting to accept this really was it.
Yeah, I think you can now put me in the camp that thinks Destiny is the biggest game that failed to meet expectations for a while too. I still enjoy it for the "Grind race to 30 with all my characters" as well as exotic hunting...For now, simply because I have friends playing it and I have nothing else really to play on it yet.
Story wise however, I will say I feel Bungie are much better than this. I think it's just sickening they aren't even acknowledging this MAJOR flaw too. Literally all it does is pose questions. I don't even know if there's a way to fix it really. They could add missions, but from the looks of it, they would take place during the campaign and would probably require another play through for it to all make sense.
Worse again yet "We want Destiny to be a game you play for a long time". Not seeing that happening bungie. If all the game has is to replay everything to grind to 30, and/or get cool gear, I'm not sure why I'd be happy with that. DLC I'll probably play, but I'm not seeing it being like Borderlands was to me, which I played and still am playing (when I feel like it), a ton of.
I bet whenever the next big thing is out will make me forget about Destiny for at least a while and that's a real shame, had a lot of potential. I literally thought at the end of the campaign, maybe they're adding more later to keep people on consistently, but think I'm starting to accept this really was it.
Krappadizzle
Member
To me it shows their management needs some reworking.
Fattony12000
Member
Joe had been working at Bungie for 15 years before leaving in September 2013. He was the cinematics director for Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3. He also wrote/helped write those games, and was a major force behind getting ODST made. He knows how to tell a story in a video game (despite what you may think of the quality of that story, it's clearly A Thing He Is Able To Do).
Why about 5% of what he surely worked on (in the five or so years that Destiny took to make) appears in the game, is a mystery to me. But it makes me sad.
(Also, I wanted to hear some silly Joe VO at some point :sadface)
Why about 5% of what he surely worked on (in the five or so years that Destiny took to make) appears in the game, is a mystery to me. But it makes me sad.
(Also, I wanted to hear some silly Joe VO at some point :sadface)
I wonder if the story took a dive because he left, or if he left because he was unhappy with the direction the developers wanted to take the game when it came to story.
I'd assume the latter, because I can't see him leaving Bungie if things were going smoothly in the story department.
Absoludacrous
Member
My guess would be they reached a point where it wasn't going to be feasible to tell the story they wanted to tell and still ship on time. He probably got frustrated that his work was for naught and left. Who knows if we'll ever get the real story though.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
I'd like to know what they did in the 6 years it took to develop if that was actually the case!
EarsOfASnake
Member
This all makes sense to me when you consider the near radio silence since the E3 2013 reveal. One vidoc right? It was a very 'unbungie' build up and as others have said, they know how to tell a sci-fi story. The biggest red flag was Joe leaving.
Absoludacrous
Member
Given what sounds like a ton of initial ambition, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the game was scrapped and re-scrapped a few times over that span until it was eventually scaled down into something they could actually ship.
We just saw something similar in Titan, only the end result was different
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Yeah I guess. Such a shame as well. Keeping this cross-gen probably didn't help that ambition either.
Net_Wrecker
Member
They could tell you of a great development cycle, years ago...how Bungie was crippled. They could tell you about the power of Activision, the industry's ancient enemy. There are many tales told throughout the internet to frustrated gamers. Lately those tales have stopped. Now... the gamers are frustrated anyway.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
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