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[PKMNTrainer]

GameExplain mentioned that the frame rate was stable in all but 3D battle mode in their recent preview.

Is there any other examples of yearly releases offering patches of content from the new game into the old game? And have past co-gen Pokemon releases had the ability to battle one another with the release of new Pokemon or forms in a newer version?

 

[SuperSah]

Okay.. so..

1) They can't even make the game run at even an stable 30fps, don't even give BS about hardware issues when Smash is 60fps 3D.

2) They won't patch in basic features.

Laziness. I'll likely pass on ORAS until they learn how to properly program a video game. I shouldn't have to see a simple 1vs1 turn into 15fps shiftiest in 3D, just no.

Not even the fucking overworld is 3D, for reals.

 

[Phil S.]

Well, that makes it easy to ignore these games. Didn't really have time or money for them either. *shrugs*

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It may very well have been a design decision, but it was a bad one. In a game where you're supposed to be able to impart yourself on to the player avatar, having as many inclusive customisation features is actually important. This game runs on the exact same engine as X/Y which had the option to change your skin tone. Why does removing that not matter? Why shouldn't darker skinned people be able to create an avatar that better resembles themselves, especially when the previous game in the series gave them the ability to? The Gen 1 remakes added a female trainer when the original didn't include it. I'm not buying these "they want to remain faithful to the originals!!!" arguments.

And yeah, I don't like calling devs lazy, but just look at X/Y and consider the position Game Freak are in. They are a first party developer for Nintendo. They've been making Pokemon games since the 90's. Now compare X/Y to other games on the platform. It runs like ass, it lacks 3D, it's overall a pretty shoddy engine. On top of that, now they're removing something as simple as skin tone. They have the money and the ability, there's nothing stopping them from including stuff like this.

Game Freak is a fully independent 3rd party developer. They may have a special relationship with Nintendo because of Pokémon, but I doubt that means they get the same level of access to tools and libraries, etc. as internal Nintendo development teams.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

The reason Pokémon runs at sub-30fps is because the models used are ridiculously detailed and well modelled. The amount of polygons in them is ridiculous.

The X & Y engine is too advanced for the 3DS really.

I think they made the models based around a limit of the 3DS but they forgot to account for backdrops in battle, mega evolutions and more the one opponent Pokemon which all go past this limit. Evidence for that is the XY Gyms and other areas with no backdrop, one on one works perfectly, as soon as you mega evolve say Blaziken, bam frame rate takes a hit as that model is more complex.

 

[rexor0717]

Sucks that there isn't trainer customization. That was one of my favorite parts of X/Y.

 

[Sandfox]

Okay.. so..

1) They can't even make the game run at even an stable 30fps, don't even give BS about hardware issues when Smash is 60fps 3D.

2) They won't patch in basic features.

Laziness. I'll likely pass on ORAS until they learn how to properly program a video game. I shouldn't have to see a simple 1vs1 turn into 15fps shiftiest in 3D, just no.

Not even the fucking overworld is 3D, for reals.

I wouldn't exactly call new content a basic feature.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If Monster Hunter can run at >30fps I can't see any reason why Pokemon can't stay at a stable 30 at least. It's not as if it's a graphically impressive game, at all.

Hell, a more recent example is Smash. That thing runs at 60 the vast majority of the time with 3D on! The Pokemon engine is just unoptimised to hell.

Smash's models are actually not very detailed at all unless you pause the game and everything that isn't a fighter runs at 30fps, sometimes (jarringly) far lower. Smash uses incredibly aggressive LODs to accomplish what it does, something Pokemon can't do because the focus is always on one very high detailed model, instead of zooming way out on a bunch of tiny models.

Smash also has long loading times between fights as models and stuff are loaded, Pokemon obviously cannot do that before every single fight. Smash also locks out all other features of the 3DS while playing it, I don't think they want to do that with Pokemon, or very often at all since it seems very taxing on the system and battery.

 

[Zareka]

The reason Pokémon runs at sub-30fps is because the models used are ridiculously detailed and well modelled. The amount of polygons in them is ridiculous.

The X & Y engine is too advanced for the 3DS really.

Doesn't look that different. (What I mean is they can obviously achieve a similar effect without nuking the engine. Slightly better models aren't worth tanking the framerate.)

And if the engine sucks on the 3DS, why the hell are they making it for the 3DS? Cut down on the engine if that's the case. Again, you'd think the Smash engine is too advanced for the system but nope, they put some effort in to it and got it running great. Pokemon engine, not so much.

Smash's models are actually not very detailed at all unless you pause the game and everything that isn't a fighter runs at 30fps, sometimes (jarringly) far lower. Smash uses incredibly aggressive LODs to accomplish what it does, something Pokemon can't do because the focus is always on one very high detailed model, instead of zooming way out on a bunch of tiny models.

Smash also has long loading times between fights as models and stuff are loaded, Pokemon obviously cannot do that before every single fight. Smash also locks out all other features of the 3DS while playing it, I don't think they want to do that with Pokemon, or very often at all since it seems very taxing on the system and battery.

Alright, good points. I never considered the load times etc you get in exchange for it in Smash. But in that case why not pull back on the engine somewhat? Surely a game that runs better is more important that the models looking nice? We survived on sprites until 2013 and no one complained.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Doesn't look that different. (What I mean is they can obviously achieve a similar effect without nuking the engine. Slightly better models aren't worth tanking the framerate.)

And if the engine sucks on the 3DS, why the hell are they making it for the 3DS? Cut down on the engine if that's the case. Again, you'd think the Smash engine is too advanced for the system but nope, they put some effort in to it and got it running great. Pokemon engine, not so much.

In the top screen, Pikachu is moving, in the bottom, the game is paused. Smash plays a cute trick where it bumps the model quality wayyyy up when the game is paused.

 

[Randdalf]

The reason Pokémon runs at sub-30fps is because the models used are ridiculously detailed and well modelled. The amount of polygons in them is ridiculous.

The X & Y engine is too advanced for the 3DS really.

I wouldn't say it's as cut and dry as that. I'd say there's also an element of Pokemon not being a real-time game putting less pressure on the developers to optimise for a good frame rate. It's also Game Freak's first game on the 3DS.

 

[Sami+]

Wait, since when did people not like roller blades? Those were rad.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Wait, since when did people not like roller blades? Those were rad.

I like the sashaying when you go really slow.

 

[Banana Aeon]

Doesn't look that different. (What I mean is they can obviously achieve a similar effect without nuking the engine. Slightly better models aren't worth tanking the framerate.)

And if the engine sucks on the 3DS, why the hell are they making it for the 3DS? Cut down on the engine if that's the case. Again, you'd think the Smash engine is too advanced for the system but nope, they put some effort in to it and got it running great. Pokemon engine, not so much.

And that Namco are fucking wizards when it comes to optimization, and GameFreak has been nothing short than terrible in that regard.

 

[Zareka]

In the top screen, Pikachu is moving, in the bottom, the game is paused. Smash plays a cute trick where it bumps the model quality wayyyy up when the game is paused.

Oh, it does? I wasn't aware of this. Ignore that part of the post then, my bad.

 

[ohlawd]

Sucks that there isn't trainer customization. That was one of my favorite parts of X/Y.

yes, this really bums me out. my female trainer D:

but I never expected content parity. Someone's probably gonna dig my post in the "what would you prefer, lack of parity in content or specs?" thread. X/Y and OR/AS aren't the same games so I don't expect shit to be done for X/Y anymore. I have no problem with Pokemon joining stuff like Madden and CoD and how they throw away the old games the second the new ones come out.

 

[Jezan]

It may very well have been a design decision, but it was a bad one. In a game where you're supposed to be able to impart yourself on to the player avatar, having as many inclusive customisation features is actually important. This game runs on the exact same engine as X/Y which had the option to change your skin tone. Why does removing that not matter? Why shouldn't darker skinned people be able to create an avatar that better resembles themselves, especially when the previous game in the series gave them the ability to? The Gen 1 remakes added a female trainer when the original didn't include it. I'm not buying these "they want to remain faithful to the originals!!!" arguments.

And yeah, I don't like calling devs lazy, but just look at X/Y and consider the position Game Freak are in. They are a first party developer for Nintendo. They've been making Pokemon games since the 90's. Now compare X/Y to other games on the platform. It runs like ass, it lacks 3D, it's overall a pretty shoddy engine. On top of that, now they're removing something as simple as skin tone. They have the money and the ability, there's nothing stopping them from including stuff like this.

This is important!
The engine is the same, so there was no point in removing a feature when the character is the avatar of the player, specially in Pokemon. they are just removing the feature out of a bad decision.

 

[gosox333]

They can patch the games, they've done it multiple times now.

I don't know what they were thinking, between this and getting rid of customization. It all makes GF look so scuzzy. Maybe if we get a good explanation for no patch(RE: NOT the reasoning behind taking customizing away) I'll forgive, but this is seriously so fucked of them until then.

 

[ColtraineGF]

Oh, it does? I wasn't aware of this. Ignore that part of the post then, my bad.

It is very obvious when you go into training mode and select the option to only move the characters when you hold the L button.

Holding and letting go, you can see the character models change in real time. It's not usually noticeable during action because of how fast everything moves.

 

[DedValve]

img.

Damn XY engines use of colors is disgusting but this really slaps you hard.

Where are all them saturated colors? I hate the dried out color of XY/ORAS, looks so bad.

 

[lewisgone]

What on earth? What a crappy decision.

Pokemon games have always been impressively compatible with each other. They finally have the technology to make major changes within a generation and not have it affect compatibility, but instead they're going to let it be an issue for people. That's shit.

 

[wmlk]

Damn XY engines use of colors is disgusting but this really slaps you hard.

Where are all them saturated colors? I hate the dried out color of XY/ORAS, looks so bad.

You're looking at a compressed YouTube screen. The games are quite bright in battle.

 

[Zareka]

It is very obvious when you go into training mode and select the option to only move the characters when you hold the L button.

Holding and letting go, you can see the character models change in real time. It's not usually noticeable during action because of how fast everything moves.

I just loaded up my 3DS to check just that, and you're right. It's a pretty big difference too.

I still think that stable game > better graphics, though.

 

[Femmeworth]

The X & Y engine is too advanced for the 3DS really.

That's one way to say poorly optimized. Not that the 3DS doesn't have crappy technical specs.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

The reason Pokémon runs at sub-30fps is because the models used are ridiculously detailed and well modelled. The amount of polygons in them is ridiculous.

Bullshit, dude.

Even if the poly count was high, which its really not, the game doesn't have much going on to even warrant a sub-30fps.

And after XY, they should have learned their lesson and found a way to achieve a locked 30fps. Like others said, Smash is doing a locked 60fps with much more going on.

Don't defend this bs when they are obviously showing incompetency.

 

[Jezan]

Doesn't look that different. (What I mean is they can obviously achieve a similar effect without nuking the engine. Slightly better models aren't worth tanking the framerate.)

And if the engine sucks on the 3DS, why the hell are they making it for the 3DS? Cut down on the engine if that's the case. Again, you'd think the Smash engine is too advanced for the system but nope, they put some effort in to it and got it running great. Pokemon engine, not so much.

Alright, good points. I never considered the load times etc you get in exchange for it in Smash. But in that case why not pull back on the engine somewhat? Surely a game that runs better is more important that the models looking nice? We survived on sprites until 2013 and no one complained.

Sprites which in Crystal had animation and in later generations had the weird rotation effects that they tried to pass for "animation".

Also I think Pokemon needs more color, that comparison of Pikachu in X/Y and Smash is a good point.

 

[wmlk]

Game Freak is incompetent no matter what perspective we take. There.

 

[Renzoku]

Can I import my Pokemon from XY to ORAS?

As long as I can do that, whatever. Pokemon has been a stagnant, simple series for years now, not like I'm expecting effort out of them.

 

[DedValve]

You're looking at a compressed YouTube screen. The games are quite bright in battle.

I've poured over 300 hours into xy, the colors are flat.

Hell when I first played I went screaming that I had a shiny charmander because his colors looked so off.

 

[MicH]

Can I import my Pokemon from XY to ORAS?

As long as I can do that, whatever. Pokemon has been a stagnant, simple series for years now, not like I'm expecting effort out of them.

Yes

However, if you use Pokemon Bank you cannot transfer the items. You have to do that trading them one by one with two 3DSes

 

[Brazil]

Fucking bullshit.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I can somewhat understand forcing us to play it with the old characters. However, I don't get why they can't patch X/Y. Feel a lot less inclined to buy it now, though not sure if I'll stay the same by launch. Might as well have added new pokemons or evolutions if we weren't going to be able to transfer stuff between games.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Damn.

You know, with Pokemon XY having so many little Pokemon, I wondered if due to having advanced system, they'd actually add brand new Pokemon in the third version of XY...now I can't see them doing it.

Personally, this doesn't bother me---I'd probably never touch XY again, I usually don't, and I've used like one Mega my entire time of playing XY, but yeah, GameFreak are really weird.

The only thing GameFreak seems to actually have an edge over the rest of Nintendo are their internet features and willingness to adapt and reach a nice equilibrium between the competitive side and casual side. It's a shame they couldn't get both games to achieve parity...

EDIT: Don't care about customization though. I always felt it'd be sort of weird for the remake to have customization....yeah, I know, it was likely out of laziness, not caring about the canon, but I thought it'd be gone since ORAS was first revealed.

 

[domlolz]

people were expecting them to do this? what

 

[lewisgone]

So, could Nintendo buy Game Freak? And then actually hire a few more people, and make them competent enough for 3D game development? Because right now they really aren't doing a good enough job when it comes to using the 3DS to it's full capabilities. If ORAS also has frame rate issues that will be really frustrating.

 

[domlolz]

They can patch the games, they've done it multiple times now.

I don't know what they were thinking, between this and getting rid of customization. It all makes GF look so scuzzy. Maybe if we get a good explanation for no patch(RE: NOT the reasoning behind taking customizing away) I'll forgive, but this is seriously so fucked of them until then.

features not carrying on between games is expected from gamefreak(especially between the remakes and new games, aren't they made by two different teams?), are you people not familiar with how gamefreak does things at all? i dont get the outrage.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

people were expecting them to do this? what

This is the first time a new game of Pokemon within the same generation has introduced so many "new Pokemon".

Usually the third version since Emerald will have one or two form changes of a Legendary, and they're restricted from online, but being Legendaries no one really cares. Now that we have a system that would allow patching, most people were expecting it.

For one I'm GLAD that GameFreak are introducing a lot of new Pokemon inter-Generation, even if they are basically just form changes...but it's only been a year since XY came out and now it feels obsolete.

 

[Joqu]

I've poured over 300 hours into xy, the colors are flat.

Hell when I first played I went screaming that I had a shiny charmander because his colors looked so off.

That's because they're supposed to look like the Sugimori art now to be fair. The colour in his art has always been more subdued:

It's pretty accurate.

 

[Brazil]

features not carrying on between games is expected from gamefreak(especially between the remakes and new games, aren't they made by two different teams?), are you people not familiar with how gamefreak does things at all? i dont get the outrage.

The fact that they've done things this way before doesn't make it ok.

 

[Renzoku]

Yes

However, if you use Pokemon Bank you cannot transfer the items. You have to do that trading them one by one with two 3DSes

Thanks for answering.

Man, I have to transfer all my mega stones one by one to a friend back to me or something similar?

 

[Velcro Fly]

don't worry guys Z is coming I'm sure and will be compatible with all megas

 

[gosox333]

features not carrying on between games is expected from gamefreak(especially between the remakes and new games, aren't they made by two different teams?), are you people not familiar with how gamefreak does things at all? i dont get the outrage.

The 3DS can and has pretty regularly received sizable patches/DLC to it's bigger games. X/Y have also recieved minor patches at this point.

The outrage comes from GF not doing that when others have. It isn't 2005 anymore, patch the goddamn games or at least give us a good reason why you aren't.

 

[Randdalf]

The fact that they've done things this way before doesn't make it ok.

It doesn't, but not adding new features from your new game to your old game is expected business practice in games.

 

[Brazil]

It doesn't, but not adding new features from your new game to your old game is expected business practice in games.

Is this a circular discussion we're entering?

 

[MicH]

Thanks for answering.

Man, I have to transfer all my mega stones one by one to a friend back to me or something similar?

Yes. Or have your friend lend you his 3DS and put your ORAS game cart in (assuming you're not getting a digital copy) and skip that step. But yes, Pokemon Bank does not transfer items so you have to do it one by one via old wireless trading

 

[brinstar]

Usually the third version since Emerald will have one or two form changes of a Legendary, and they're restricted from online, but being Legendaries no one really cares. Now that we have a system that would allow patching, most people were expecting it..

I might be misremembering things... but I remember GF specifically saying they weren't going to be patching X/Y in this manner even back before the games came out. When people datamined X/Y and found the extra Pokemon and the forms for the Lati@s it was assumed that was gonna be for Gen 6.

 

[Randdalf]

Is this a circular discussion we're entering?

Yes and no. You said it shouldn't be acceptable because Game Freak have done it before, I'm saying that all game developers who make sequels do it.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Bullshit, dude.

Even if the poly count was high, which its really not, the game doesn't have much going on to even warrant a sub-30fps.

And after XY, they should have learned their lesson and found a way to achieve a locked 30fps. Like others said, Smash is doing a locked 60fps with much more going on.

Don't defend this bs when they are obviously showing incompetency.

Don't tell anyone but the Smash models are actually lower poly when the game isn't paused, when it is the models are switched for higher poly versions.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

It doesn't, but not adding new features from your new game to your old game is expected business practice in games.

Yeah, I mean let's be fair, when Capcom releases Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom, or Super Street Fighter IV, the players with the old games have to buy the new games or they won't be able to use the new characters.

 

[MaximumSpider]

I don't care.
I've been waiting waiting so long for this game.