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[MightyHedgehog]

^nice!

related; before i finally buy this SCART to component adapter (apparently i'll need the audio bit too, ugh), i should ask: the RGB cables i have from retro_console_accessories are EU type i believe, that should be fine yeah?

Yes. I have the same setup for my Genny going Euro SCART to that same SCART-to-component converter on my SD CRT. Looks amazing and, from what I've seen in-person of an XRGB faking scanlines on nice plasma, still much better even though that's a nice compromise for some folks, I'm sure. The real thing with real scanlines that aren't perfectly uniform, as they are with faked ones, is just too awesome.

 

[D.Lo]

^nice!

related; before i finally buy this SCART to component adapter (apparently i'll need the audio bit too, ugh), i should ask: the RGB cables i have from retro_console_accessories are EU type i believe, that should be fine yeah?

Yes that will be fine, I used one of those for years on my CRT that only accepted component.

Get a little audio breakout for the sound, will cost like $1.

Yes. I have the same setup for my Genny going Euro SCART to that same SCART-to-component converter on my SD CRT. Looks amazing and, from what I've seen in-person of an XRGB faking scanlines on nice plasma, still much better even though that's a nice compromise for some folks, I'm sure. The real thing with real scanlines that aren't perfectly uniform, as they are with faked ones, is just too awesome.

I have both a PVM and a 50" Plasma with Framemeister, and most of the time I really genuinely prefer the XRGB.
Once you get to a decent size CRT, you start to have serious geometry problems. The super bars in Street Fighter, for example, will be slightly warped etc. My PVM has options to adjust geometry, but it's 14". It's a fun little retro experience, but doesn't give a big enough screen to appreciate the beautiful pixel art. The scanlines work perfectly for me, and are adjustable to taste, unlike any real CRT, where you might have super chunky or super bleedy ones.

XRGB + good low lag big HDTV is IMO the best these old games have ever looked.

I just finished my eight console 100% RGB retro set-up, I'll post pics in a minute.

 

[IrishNinja]

thanks guys!

Get a little audio breakout for the sound, will cost like $1.

wait a what now
can you link to that, it'd be better than another $10 anyway

 

[D.Lo]

can you link to that, it'd be better than another $10 anyway

Cheapest I could find was $4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-THROU...=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2ec28fb29d

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I have both a PVM and a 50" Plasma with Framemeister, and most of the time I really genuinely prefer the XRGB.
Once you get to a decent size CRT, you start to have serious geometry problems. The super bars in Street Fighter, for example, will be slightly warped etc. My PVM has options to adjust geometry, but it's 14". It's a fun little retro experience, but doesn't give a big enough screen to appreciate the beautiful pixel art. The scanlines work perfectly for me, and are adjustable to taste, unlike any real CRT, where you might have super chunky or super bleedy ones.

XRGB + good low lag big HDTV is IMO the best these old games have ever looked.

I just finished my eight console 100% RGB retro set-up, I'll post pics in a minute.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love the perfect geometry of fixed panels and the lack of color bleed, but even with the imperfections on CRTs, I'm just not that OCD about it beyond really egregious overscan that loses entire UI elements. I've got a nice component-input SD 27" Trinitron manufactured in 2004 and even with some red push and warping and slight fuzziness in two of the corners along with a little bit of overscan depending on source, I'm more than overjoyed with the look. Certainly, I can mess with it using service menu, but I'm just not that bothered anymore. Still, I would love to have this same picture on my big screen, but the price of entry to XRGB just isn't justifiable for me when I've had some time to mess with it on my plasma borrowing one for a night.

 

[D.Lo]

Okay, here's some pics of my new set-up.

RGB modded PC Engine Duo RX
RGB modded translucent black Nintendo 64
Dreamcast (connected via Hanzo VGA)
60Hz modded Mega Drive
RGB Modded Super Famicom Jr
Hong Kong NTSCJ White Saturn
Japanese PSOne
NESRGB modded AV Famicom

PS3 and Wii also present, would love to add my Gamecube but can't justify the additional cords and hassle when I have my GCN games conveniently ripped to the Wii HDD, with flawless widescreen hacks and forced 480p on most games.

Power cords are all managed from the top drawer, usually only one plugged in at once for safety.

Drawers of controllers and games. Famicom Disk System only gets plugged in for special occasions!

And my current favourite, that translucent black Nintendo 64. The shell is from a later model, the insides are an RGB modded earlier NTSCJ model.

The only non-Japanese console is the Mega Drive, as I prefer the PAL MD2 colouring - the symmetrical red buttons look nice at match the power light.
I'm currently doing some work on my scart switcher, it sits top right under the Framemeister.

 

[Timu]

Great pics, and so much RGB!!!

 

[D.Lo]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love the perfect geometry of fixed panels and the lack of color bleed, but even with the imperfections on CRTs, I'm just not that OCD about it beyond really egregious overscan that loses entire UI elements. I've got a nice component-input SD 27" Trinitron manufactured in 2004 and even with some red push and warping and slight fuzziness in two of the corners along with a little bit of overscan depending on source, I'm more than overjoyed with the look. Certainly, I can mess with it using service menu, but I'm just not that bothered anymore. Still, I would love to have this same picture on my big screen, but the price of entry to XRGB just isn't justifiable for me when I've had some time to mess with it on my plasma borrowing one for a night.

Absolutely.
Just saying everything is something of a compromise, and for me the Framemeister is the least compromised option of all in terms of image quality, due to screen size and geometry.

 

[sixteen-bit]

That translucent n64 is gorgeous.

 

[Peltz]

Absolutely.
Just saying everything is something of a compromise, and for me the Framemeister is the least compromised option of all in terms of image quality, due to screen size and geometry.

Just to piggyback on that point - overscan and geometry issues:

The set does have a zoom out function that allows me to see the entire image but with borders around the image. At 13" with 1 inch borders, things get pretty tiny. I don't mind the imperfections, but I do mind the overscan now that I know the extent of it.

This is why I'm still looking forward to the framemeister. Even though I've loved my reunion with CRT tech last night - I stayed up all night playing with my new toy - I still long for the same IQ but rendered as a big uniform image that I've grown accustomed to over the past decade on HDTVs. I'll probably end up gaming on both equally.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Absolutely.
Just saying everything is something of a compromise, and for me the Framemeister is the least compromised option of all in terms of image quality, due to screen size and geometry.

That is where I'm at. Just way prefer being able to play from a distance on a huge HDTV with a straight flat image. The little CRTS are fun for a close up setting and have a slightly warmer and authentic feel but the upscaler/hdtv combo is my favorite to choose.

Both have their place in a gameroom, though.

 

[Tambini]

Hi guys I have a question, do you think a ps2 would look better on my 50 hdtv with component cables or the 28" CRT using scart?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Hi guys I have a question, do you think a ps2 would look better on my 50 hdtv with component cables or the 28" CRT using scart?

PS2 is probably the most difficult console to make a judgement call one way or the other on this.

This comes down to how competently your HDTV handles 480i content.

 

[Peltz]

Hi guys I have a question, do you think a ps2 would look better on my 50 hdtv with component cables or the 28" CRT using scart?

Are you going to be playing a lot of PS1 games and old school compilations (e.g. Mega Man Anniversary Collection, Metal Slug Anthology)? Are you playing a lot of fighting games and schmups? If so, I firmly recommend CRT. HDTV's with component just can't do PS1 games justice and you'll want to minimize lag for the twitchy stuff.

If you're mostly playing PS2-era RPGs, and PS2-era games that aren't twitchy, then you could really go either way and it depends on your own judgment of your HDTV's upscaling and CRT's geometry. Some HDTVs deal with 480i over component very nicely.

 

[Jamix012]

Hi guys, I've noticed that my RGB modded TurboDuo has minor issues. I have it connected the same way I have all my other RGB consoles connected, through Scart into an upscaler and that's worked fine for everything else, but when connecting the TurboDuo on black screens I can notice light horizontal scrolling lines. Any ideas?

 

[Tambini]

PS2 is probably the most difficult console to make a judgement call one way or the other on this.

This comes down to how competently your HDTV handles 480i content.

Are you going to be playing a lot of PS1 games and old school compilations (e.g. Mega Man Anniversary Collection, Metal Slug Anthology)? Are you playing a lot of fighting games and schmups? If so, I firmly recommend CRT. HDTV's with component just can't do PS1 games justice and you'll want to minimize lag for the twitchy stuff.

If you're mostly playing PS2-era RPGs, and PS2-era games that aren't twitchy, then you could really go either way and it depends on your own judgment of your HDTV's upscaling and CRT's geometry. Some HDTVs deal with 480i over component very nicely.

Ok, i'll probably keep it on the hdtv for now as I wont be playing anything that would really benefit a crt but i'll test it out of the crt to compare sometime. Thanks

 

[Peltz]

Hi guys, I've noticed that my RGB modded TurboDuo has minor issues. I have it connected the same way I have all my other RGB consoles connected, through Scart into an upscaler and that's worked fine for everything else, but when connecting the TurboDuo on black screens I can notice light horizontal scrolling lines. Any ideas?

Pics?

 

[Friend of Sonic]

I love that Saturn pad for the Playstation, D.lo. dumb question, are ps2 pads compatible with PS1? I'd love to find a good 2D pad for PS1.

 

[antibolo]

Hi guys I have a question, do you think a ps2 would look better on my 50 hdtv with component cables or the 28" CRT using scart?

If the game supports 480p -> HDTV
If the game doesn't support 480p -> CRT
Also, if the game supports 240p (very rare) -> CRT

That's how I roll. I keep both cables close to it so I can swap between them depending on the game.

 

[antibolo]

I love that Saturn pad for the Playstation, D.lo. dumb question, are ps2 pads compatible with PS1? I'd love to find a good 2D pad for PS1.

That Saturn pad is probably already detected by the PS2 as a PS1 controller since it has no DualShock features.

I've seen PS2 games that rejected my PS2 Street Fighter Anniversary Hori controller because they claimed it wasn't a PS2 controller!

But generally speaking there is no distinction between PS1 and PS2 controllers, in fact I'm pretty sure that even DualShock 2 controllers work on a PS1.

 

[sixteen-bit]

If the game supports 480p -> HDTV
If the game doesn't support 480p -> CRT
Also, if the game supports 240p (very rare) -> CRT

That's how I roll. I keep both cables close to it so I can swap between them depending on the game.

What do you do with games like M2's Sega Ages that support both 480p and 240p?

I roll 240p CRT cuz I need them scanlines!

 

[antibolo]

What do you do with games like M2's Sega Ages that support both 480p and 240p?

I roll 240p CRT cuz I need them scanlines!

Same here. 240p CRT takes priority.

HDTV only when a 480p-capable game would otherwise be 480i. But if 480i is the only option, CRT is better because 480i lag on most HDTVs is super gross.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

That Saturn pad is probably already detected by the PS2 as a PS1 controller since it has no DualShock features.

I've seen PS2 games that rejected my PS2 Street Fighter Anniversary Hori controller because they claimed it wasn't a PS2 controller!

But generally speaking there is no distinction between PS1 and PS2 controllers, in fact I'm pretty sure that even DualShock 2 controllers work on a PS1.

Thank you! Odd about your Hori controller, though.

 

[C-Sword]

That Saturn pad is probably already detected by the PS2 as a PS1 controller since it has no DualShock features.

I've seen PS2 games that rejected my PS2 Street Fighter Anniversary Hori controller because they claimed it wasn't a PS2 controller!

But generally speaking there is no distinction between PS1 and PS2 controllers, in fact I'm pretty sure that even DualShock 2 controllers work on a PS1.

Hori made a SF Anniversary controller for the PS2? I only know the Nuby Tech ones.

 

[antibolo]

Hori made a SF Anniversary controller for the PS2? I only know the Nuby Tech ones.

Oh you're right, just checked and it's indeed not Hori. Not sure why I thought it was.

 

[dock]

My PC Engine with RGB output inexplicably looks pretty great when hooked up directly to my new Bravia! No upscaler or anything.This is especially confusing because the Sega Saturn looks like complete garbage through SCART. My old Samsung TV displayed the Saturn well but not the PC Engine.

Can anyone explain?

 

[D.Lo]

I love that Saturn pad for the Playstation, D.lo. dumb question, are ps2 pads compatible with PS1? I'd love to find a good 2D pad for PS1.

Yes it seems all PS2 pads work on PS1 in my experience. The PS2 has a PS1 in it, and so I assume all PS2 pads were required to work with PS1 software for support reasons.

Some PS2 games that use analog buttons (eg MGS2) do not allow use of non-analog controllers however.

I use that Saturn PS2 pad for most of my 2D PS1 gaming.

 

[antibolo]

My PC Engine with RGB output inexplicably looks pretty great when hooked up directly to my new Bravia! No upscaler or anything.This is especially confusing because the Sega Saturn looks like complete garbage through SCART. My old Samsung TV displayed the Saturn well but not the PC Engine.

Can anyone explain?

Maybe your SCART cable is not actually RGB?

 

[dock]

Maybe your SCART cable is not actually RGB?

I'm a stickler for RGB but it's possible a bad cable snuck in there. I should give it another try. Thanks.

 

[Peltz]

If the game supports 480p -> HDTV
If the game doesn't support 480p -> CRT
Also, if the game supports 240p (very rare) -> CRT

That's how I roll. I keep both cables close to it so I can swap between them depending on the game.

I just remembered, don't some 480i games on PS2 have widescreen support? I wouldn't want to lose that over a few frames of lag. Unless, of course, your CRT is widescreen.

 

[Timu]

Don't some 480i games on PS2 have widescreen support though?

Yes, quite a bit do actually.

 

[GayForMaster]

I may be able to acquire a Sony PVM 20L5 but I fear it might not have a BKM-129x. I'm hoping for that so I can feed my component switch to that, and scart switch to the RGB/Component output of the PVM.

In case it doesn't have a BKM-129x (those things are insanely expensive to buy), is there a switch that would let me feed 2 inputs (SCART and Component), and output a signal to a display depending on what mode I choose for that switch? I have only seen splitters that take the same kind of cables but I'm wondering about scart/component. I don't know if it's a good idea to do that anyway but I'm trying to build a setup that requires me to not unplug anything from the back.

 

[IrishNinja]

Yes, quite a bit do actually.

yeah i forget, wanna say wiki had a section for them? also the 240p comment reminds me that i should mod my GC to force that for GBA player use

 

[Timu]

yeah i forget, wanna say wiki had a section for them? also the 240p comment reminds me that i should mod my GC to force that for GBA player use

Yep.

 

[antibolo]

I just remembered, don't some 480i games on PS2 have widescreen support? I wouldn't want to lose that over a few frames of lag. Unless, of course, your CRT is widescreen.

Widescreen on most 6th gen games is usually half-assed so it's not a big loss. Display lag is a bigger issue in my personal opinion.

 

[Peltz]

Speaking of which, when hooking PS2 up to the xrgb mini, is it better to use component to d terminal or RGB?

In theory shouldn't RGB be able to carry 480p for the few games that support it?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I think I heard that it's possible to get 480p RGB in a PS2/Mini combo if you're using RGsB (sync-on-green) and not plain RGBs. I have no idea whether or not this is actually true or how you'd set it up, though.

 

[IrishNinja]

huh. aren't there a few RGB options in the setup menu? i forget, i know i borked myself for a bit putting in the wrong one once

 

[BONKERS]

I just remembered, don't some 480i games on PS2 have widescreen support? I wouldn't want to lose that over a few frames of lag. Unless, of course, your CRT is widescreen.

The resolution of PS2 games is so low that widescreen really isn't going to matter.

Especially when you consider that you will be scaling some'odd
random framebuffer to 1920x1080

actual game resolution varies greatly. Some like MGS are 512x448, R-Type Final is 640x448 for example, Dragon Quest V 512x444, SFEX3 is also 640x448.
Many interlaced games are actually YYYx224. Rare cases like Baldurs Gate are apparently 1280x448.


Basically, fire up any PS2 game in dx11 software mode in full screen with PCSX2 and ask yourself if that IQ is acceptable.

Also consider most games are interlaced unless you can force a progressive mode (Which isn't true progressive AFIundersand. ) Or the game has native progressive support.

huh. aren't there a few RGB options in the setup menu? i forget, i know i borked myself for a bit putting in the wrong one once

AFIK, the only options are RGB and YPbPr

 

[Peltz]

Cool video. Aged Sony PVM Monitors are being dismantled, cleaned and calibrated for use in an art exhibition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBqm4ThJxw

 

[sixteen-bit]

Cool video. Aged Sony PVM Monitors are being dismantled, cleaned and calibrated for use in an art exhibition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBqm4ThJxw

thanks for sharing, that was cool

 

[BONKERS]

Cool video. Aged Sony PVM Monitors are being dismantled, cleaned and calibrated for use in an art exhibition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBqm4ThJxw

awesome. glad to see people want to preserve these

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Indeed, that was a really cool video. Thank you!

 

[STG!]

I remember doing the same to my PVM when I owned that model, except after I cleaned the case I made a hatch on the side to get to those h/v adjustments quicker. I liked the monitor, but what a pain, I don't miss that part of it at all.

 

[GayForMaster]

Got to ask another thing as well, anyone know if the SONY BVM-D24E1WU is a good CRT? On the same level as the Sony PVM 20L5, or worse?

 

[Emperor Bohe]

I currently live in a small ass apartment. I have my original consoles still but some of them are not modded for RGB output. is the Retron 5 a viable option for a CRT? is there a way to convert the HDMI to component? at this point I would rather have one console hooked up as opposed to 5 or whatever. plus GBA + IPS patching is a good selling point.

I'll pull out my original consoles again in the future when I have more space...

 

[theSlacker]

Got to ask another thing as well, anyone know if the SONY BVM-D24E1WU is a good CRT? On the same level as the Sony PVM 20L5, or worse?

That is a widescreen/16:9 monitor. As in playing 4:3 will just have the sides cut off. As opposed to the BVM-20f1u or PVM-20l5 units that can just come with a 16:9 mask on them, but they are still 4:3 sets. The D designation on that BVM may mean it also comes with the HD expansion unit though, so can do HD formats though it, but that really isn't the reason why most people look for PVMs and BVMs for retro gaming.

 

[GayForMaster]

That is a widescreen/16:9 monitor. As in playing 4:3 will just have the sides cut off. As opposed to the BVM-20f1u or PVM-20l5 units that can just come with a 16:9 mask on them, but they are still 4:3 sets. The D designation on that BVM may mean it also comes with the HD expansion unit though, so can do HD formats though it, but that really isn't the reason why most people look for PVMs and BVMs for retro gaming.

Isn't it better then? To be able to run a game at 4:3 with empty bars or run a game at widescreen (filling it up), rather than running a 16:9 game with horizontal bars? I'm just debating with myself whether I should aim for a sony pvm 20L5 or the bvm I just mentioned.

 

[Khaz]

Isn't it better then? To be able to run a game at 4:3 with empty bars or run a game at widescreen (filling it up), rather than running a 16:9 game with horizontal bars? I'm just debating with myself whether I should aim for a sony pvm 20L5 or the bvm I just mentioned.

Why not both? This screen sounds excellent for not-so-retro gaming, starting with PS2 generation. You may want something with the proper aspect ratio for your pre-3D consoles. I have a non-HD widescreen CRT for my widescreen gaming and media consumption, and a 4/3 CRT for the old and beautiful.

 

[GayForMaster]

Why not both? This screen sounds excellent for not-so-retro gaming, starting with PS2 generation. You may want something with the proper aspect ratio for your pre-3D consoles. I have a non-HD widescreen CRT for my widescreen gaming and media consumption, and a 4/3 CRT for the old and beautiful.

Man I don't think I have space for 2 of them to be honest. Maybe I should just go for the pvm 20L5 huh?