• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Itagaki talks about DOA

Thanks for the kind words. They brought me back 20 years in the past, when I first began to give my life over to DOA, and I’ve been on the go constantly from then til now. The reason why someone like me, now 47 years old, can still battle on the front lines of video games is because of fans like you. Words like yours give me and my staff the courage and strength we need to keep going, and they form the Anvil of Victory we need to work our craft.
I feel like the timing of your message was fate "user X", as it comes just as we are finishing up production on Devil’s Third. So again, let me say thank you.

Let’s see… I’m trying to remember when I decided to wrap up the DOA series with DOA4 on Xbox360… I think it was in January of 2005, so about 9 years ago. Let me tell you why I wanted to finish the series then.

First of all, personally, I love every character in the DOA universe from the bottom of my heart. Every character contributed their all in making DOA such a success. This character died, that character fell into tragedy… but EVERY character had one thing in common – they ALL played their parts until the bitter end with all of their strength and with a “Greater Love” in their hearts.
However, it’s a sad fact that all actors eventually age. That’s true in both the real world and the virtual game world. I’d appreciate it if everyone reading this would think about that.
I believed that it was my responsibility as the father of DOA to end the series while these characters were still shining their brightest. That was my decision and my goal: to finish the series with Helena’s ending, “Denouement”.

Of course, what I said here only pertains to the DOA that I know, that I created. After that I had no say in development. Even to this day I hold the founder of Tecmo, Yoshihito Kakihara, who passed away 8 years ago, in the absolute highest regard. He had such vitality. And while he was strict with the younger guys (including me), he led with such enjoyment. In created DOA, I put honoring his decisions as my top priority, and I took the liberty of adding other things in where I could. By going above and beyond his orders though, I was always at risk of losing my head, and I worked on DOA with a letter of resignation always in my pocket.
In those days, I felt that there were only maybe five people who truly loved DOA in TECMO – probably because the way we developed the game didn’t exactly follow... common sense. One of those people was Kakihara-san, as well as his son. However, with my teacher passing away, I no longer had any reason to create DOA5. I did create a script for DOA5, in the event that management (now without Kakihara-san) decided to go through with DOA5, but unfortunately it looks like the dog might have eaten it. I don’t know if the current DOA5 developers even read that script. But let me be clear – there are a lot of things about DOA that only I know. To be honest I’m not sure if the current developers even understand the meaning behind the Team Ninja visual identity (the intro with the roaring sea rising into the clouds) that Matsui Hiroaki and I created.

There are a couple points that we do seem to disagree on though, "user X".
You say that DOA5 was the start of the problems (or nightmare?), but I think it started with DOA:Dimensions. I could sense it just minutes after turning the power on, and I immediately had to turn it off. Combos aren’t something that you do with a touch panel.

My other disagreement is actually positive. You say that you are from the minority, but that’s not true. Take a look at the number of active fans dropped off with the release of DOA5. My design philosophy behind DOA was all about diversity. All that’s changed is that there was a shift from a very diverse player community, to one where primarily players who hold a more specific preference seem to have remained - that’s a cold, hard objective analysis from a professional. If the current fans are happy and satisfied with what they have, I’m happy for them, because they were also fans of mine when I was at the helm. But please don’t forget – there are many, many other loyal fans like you who have ended up walking away but also share and understand the true DOA “greater love.”
The current DOA developers would do themselves a disservice should they ignore this fact.

So "user X", thanks again.
The passion you’ve shown for DOA has really come through to me and made its mark.
I promise to do my best to channel that passion and the passion from all fans into our future endeavors.
Let’s look forward to that future together.


This is a reply from Itagaki to someone in facebook, I censored the name of that person in case she/he wants privacy, but you can find it in Itagaki's facebook, is from 1 month ago.
 
Based on DOA4, Itagaki was content to let the series die on the worst note possible. Such stagnation, that game represented.

One area where he's 100% right, though, is that the Team Ninja of today has no clue what made the old games so stylistically appealing. The graceful animation, the lovingly crafted but completely incidental environmental details, the music - the series really lost that "vitality" he's talking about that made the fighting feel...alive. And yet ironically enough, it's the best it's been in years, when judged purely on its mechanics as a fighting game.

Doesn't feel like it has any love put into it anymore, though. Guess some bad has to come with the good.
 

poopninjamvc3mk

I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
Itagaki not being a dev on DOA5 is the best thing that could happen to that game. Probably the best DOA in the series since 2.

Definitely needed him still for NG3 tho.
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Based on DOA4, Itagaki was content to let the series die on the worst note possible. Such stagnation, that game represented.

One area where he's 100% right, though, is that the Team Ninja of today has no clue what made the old games so stylistically appealing. The graceful animation, the lovingly crafted but completely incidental environmental details, the music - the series really lost that "vitality" he's talking about that made the fighting feel...alive. And yet ironically enough, it's the best it's been in years, when judged purely on its mechanics as a fighting game.

Doesn't feel like it has any love put into it anymore, though. Guess some bad has to come with the good.

Yeah, some of the models look improved (more stylistically than anything), but I felt the graphics took a hit in DOA5 over DOA4.
Which is mind blowing considering how much older DOA4 was.
 

Sage00

Once And Future Member
I'm a fan starting at DOA5 since I didn't have a 360.
There is only 1 DOA game exclusively on 360.

Yeah, some of the models look improved (more stylistically than anything), but I felt the graphics took a hit in DOA5 over DOA4.
Which is mind blowing considering how much older DOA4 was.
I remember the reaction to the DOA4 reveal at the Xbox 360 intro event being 'Huh, that's it?'

Looking back though, it's one of the most visually polished and complete games on the platform. It looks fantastic.
 
I actually liked DOA5 more than DOA4. I can still play DOA4 thanks to some arcades here and the game aged quite well but for me, the gameplay of DOA5 is better.

DOA5's aesthetics are pretty bland and dull though. Although Itagaki's game also looks a bit bland too (based on the screens earlier).
 
Yeah, some of the models look improved (more stylistically than anything), but I felt the graphics took a hit in DOA5 over DOA4.
Which is mind blowing considering how much older DOA4 was.
It's not just a feeling. DOA4 is better in every way minus the character models.

There are environmental effects totally missing from DOA5 like reflections, snow/sand deformation and blowing leaves. Parts of the game look PS2 level, like ground textures. DOA5 also has worse hair/cloth effects, and most importantly, looks like muddy and shimmery dog-shit because of its lack of AA.

The last one is really the most important factor in DOA4 looking so much better - it has absolutely pristine image quality. Based on what we've seen from Last Round, Team Ninja hasn't done much to bring DOA5 up to par graphically, since 1080p does precious little to clean up the awful texture quality and laughably simple geometry.
 
DOA 2 Ultimate and DOA 4 are still two of the best 3d fighting games ever, and he's absolutely right that the series hasn't been remotely the same since he left! DOA5 is decent fun, but it's no match for DOA2U or DOA4. I hope that Itagaki makes a fighting game again sometime, he may have some problems but he makes really great fighting games...
 

NateDrake

Member
I don't know if I agree with his complaints about DOA:Dimensions. You aren't forced to the use touch-screen to do combos. I thought DOA:Dimensions was a pretty solid entry to the series & one the 3DS' stronger titles during its opening months.
 

Pachinko

Member
Thanks OP, I didn't realize he had much of a social media presence. I still feel Team Ninja is just a name these days, the people who work there just do whatever their tecmo koei overlords want - blasphemous acts like putting Ryu Hayabusa in a Dynasty Warriors title and making a ninja gaiden game that sucked. They are gradually improving at least.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I was a huge Team Ninja fan when he was in charge, and now I think their name means nothing in particular... so I appreciate the loss of this guy. He also said opinionated shit that made everyone lose their shit. I loved that.

I don't know if I agree with his complaints about DOA:Dimensions. You aren't forced to the use touch-screen to do combos.

That was a very typically Itagaki comment. The very thought of touchscreen controls offends him.

I kind of appreciate that sentiment actually. Though I liked DOA Dimensions.
 

benzy

Member
I remember the reaction to the DOA4 reveal at the Xbox 360 intro event being 'Huh, that's it?'

Looking back though, it's one of the most visually polished and complete games on the platform. It looks fantastic.

Yeah, I think because it was the start of a new gen people just had way too high expectations, especially after seeing some newly revealed unreal engine 3 PC renders. As the generation went on though, it's apparent DOA4's beautiful environments were still unmatched in the fighting genre.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I still think DOA4 is one of the best looking 3D fighters. Blows my mind that we are approaching a time when 10 year old games look that phenomenal.

It wasn't photorealistic, but it was one of the best looking "CG anime" styled games ever.
 

Subaru

Member
I think that current Team Ninja REALLY doesn't get what makes DoA and Ninja Gaiden so good.

It's funny because they announced that both games became more "adult". Remember those "A Hero Unmasked" and "I'm a Fighter" shit? LOL

Main.jpg
ninja_gaiden_3_poster_by_sabuxi-d4jsbhs.jpg

Wow much crying.

About DoA: I like DoA 5 gameplay (even that I don't find necessarily better than its predecessors) and I like the new models. But the rest of the game is garbage: hideous soundtrack, almost all stages are boring as hell (and ugly) and that story mode... holy shit, it's embarrassing. I think it's funny because while we got the nonsense "fight for cabagge" cutscene, I really like Helena, Kasumi and Ayane's plot. DoA Ultimate's opening is dope, like Helena's ending in DoA 4.
They've tried to make DoA looks more serious, but it looked more stupid.

About Ninja Gaiden: Hayashi doesn't get gameplay right. And for that, there is no cure.

I must say that I hate that I've bought DoA 5 DAY 1 and the next version didn't came with the option to upgrade. I think this is insulting nowadays.´
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge it's waaay better than NG3, but the framerate on Wii U is TERRIBLE - and we all can agree that it's not Wii U's fault for that. Also, that was supposed the "definitive" version and, well, it came BETTER for PS3/X360 later.

Yes, I don't like current Team Ninja at all.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Itagaki not being a dev on DOA5 is the best thing that could happen to that game. Probably the best DOA in the series since 2.

Definitely needed him still for NG3 tho.

He was behind 2 ya know. I think who they have can make a new NG but I can never trust this man about DOA DOA4 was terrible and when people asked him questions it was obvious he knew nothing about fighting games.

People may talk shit about team Ninja but you find any dev that makes them open for discussion in events or actually support tournies, can't say that about capcom or snk only one that matches them is Netherrealm (Shame their games have bad art :( )

I am just mystified that people think this Team Ninja does not know how to make a fighter that is a mystery to me, NG is a question mark because the people who made NG:B are still there barring Itagaki and a few but NG3 and NG:RE make them look murky. Time will tell. But I am so glad Itagaki is not behind DOA the man hated fighting games as evidenced by Genra in 3. :p
 

Rymuth

Member
About Ninja Gaiden: Hayashi doesn't get gameplay right. And for that, there is no cure.

*sad nod of approval*

To be honest I’m not sure if the current developers even understand the meaning behind the Team Ninja visual identity (the intro with the roaring sea rising into the clouds) that Matsui Hiroaki and I created.
This part is interesting. I wonder what he means.
 

Sayad

Member
People may talk shit about team Ninja but you find any dev that makes them open for discussion in events or actually support tournies, can't say that about capcom or snk only one that matches them is Netherrealm (Shame their games have bad art :( )
Um, pretty sure Capcom support more tournaments than Team Ninja. They're also at least as open to fans(read, actually asked fans for input when balancing the game).
 

Darius

Banned
DoA5 is a decent game, but I agree that it feels quite different, more inconsistent so to say. The overall story isn´t that important in a fighting game but it still bothers me how boring it was and how out of place it felt in DoA5. The evolution of the character design was done competently, with a few outlier, I also liked the inclusion of some Virtua Fighter characters. From the new character only Mila was somewhat interesting. The biggest problems were the stages, which just didn´t kept up with the previous titles, some seemed very lazy and monotonous despite the added action sequences and I can´t say there was even was a single stage that I liked particularly well, unlike in the previous installments.Gameplay wasn´t bad, but I prefer the faster and more action-oriented prequels. Overall I must say that despite all the similarities it felt quite different and to me also less apealing.
 

Talax

Member
No offense to Itagaki but other than DoA2 none of his DoAs were good. DOA5 was a step in the right direction imo.
 

Paracelsus

Member
5 is the more competent fighting game, but 3 to me technically was the equivalent of Gears of War, as in "ok, this is next gen" game. I really wish Tekken wasn't trying so hard to look like a clown game with environments and designs, because I would love to see a groundbreaking 8th gen fighting game.
 

Dereck

Member
I would like to hear him talk about Ninja Gaiden post XBOX, I would really be interested in that.

Thanks OP, great find
 

geordiemp

Member
Itagaki not being a dev on DOA5 is the best thing that could happen to that game. Probably the best DOA in the series since 2.

Definitely needed him still for NG3 tho.

Saw Ninja Gaiden and Itagaki and my heart pumps....

No interest in DOA...at all.

Would love a NG remake on Ps4
 

a.wd

Member
DOA5 was a bag of crap compared to 4, it went backwards in so many ways and demonstrated a lack of care that to me is stunning, Itagaki however maligned he almost always put out work that had soul and attention to detail.
 
DOA is the best it has ever been right now from a gameplay perspective. The stages are awfully bland though, the war zone stage is so ugly, one of the ugliest stages in fighting games.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
I don't know if I agree with his complaints about DOA:Dimensions. You aren't forced to the use touch-screen to do combos. I thought DOA:Dimensions was a pretty solid entry to the series & one the 3DS' stronger titles during its opening months.

I agree with you here. Dimensions is a solid fighting game. And I actually believe it was trying to get more people into the franchise by a) releasing on 3DS and going for a different kind of market and b) having the entire story of all previous DOA's being told during the story mode of the game.

About Ninja Gaiden: Hayashi doesn't get gameplay right. And for that, there is no cure.

I must say that I hate that I've bought DoA 5 DAY 1 and the next version didn't came with the option to upgrade. I think this is insulting nowadays.´
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge it's waaay better than NG3, but the framerate on Wii U is TERRIBLE - and we all can agree that it's not Wii U's fault for that. Also, that was supposed the "definitive" version and, well, it came BETTER for PS3/X360 later.

Yes, I don't like current Team Ninja at all.

Yeah I got burned on that. I bought Ninja Gaiden 3, day one on PS3. Completed that on Normal and while going through my second playthrough they announced Razor's Edge for Wii U. Okay, so I bought that day one too. Completed my first playthrough on Hard and then they announce Razor's Edge for PS3/360.

One interesting bit of info from Itadaki is that he says that production on Devils Third is wrapping up. And the post from him is a month old.
 

raven777

Member
I love the new character models in DOA5. They are fantastic. But I do miss the vibrant color of the background stages in DOA4. The stages in DOA5 are huge disappointment, as with overall UI and soundtrack.
 

Discusguy

Member
I stopped caring about Team Ninja games after Itakaki left. I new the attention to detail and gameplay would take a hit without him.
 

m0t0k1

Member
I kinda agree with Itagaki in the sense that the DOA he described is dead and we got a more serious fan catered in place of it. One of the reasons i play doa is because it does not take it self that serious and had amazing fun stages. Also liked the older style fight mechanics more. DOA used to be a reason for me to grab a console. Got a ps2 for it and a 360. But 5 while i do like it kinda killed the must have for me.

The game comes over as too serious. Stages are bland even the old returning stages feel kinda lifeless to me. Also not the biggest fan of DOA becoming more like a serious fighter in the mechanics department. While i still do enjoy DOA 5 its not like i love it like i used to, but then again i always have been the oddball because usually i am the direct opposite of what people ask for in most fan request. I see DOA more as a party game i can have fun with. Everybody can pick up and play. That is still in 5 but to an lesser extent.

It's great if it brings more players to DOA though so we can have more DOA games and hope everybody will play DOA for a long time. But this is just an opinion from a more casual oriented DOA player like me.
 
I love the new character models in DOA5. They are fantastic. But I do miss the vibrant color of the background stages in DOA4. The stages in DOA5 are huge disappointment, as with overall UI and soundtrack.

If you play DOA4 and DOA5 side by side, the difference in definition/sharpness is really big, outside the 3D models, is like they are from different generations.
 

Blueblur1

Member
I see a few people say the gameplay sucks in DOA5 and few who say it's great. I'm pretty sure it lies somewhere in the middle when players are split like that. (I personally prefer it over previous games in the series though it is lacking in the details.)
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Based on DOA4, Itagaki was content to let the series die on the worst note possible. Such stagnation, that game represented.

I think he's talking Story-wise. Story-wise the series was ALWAYS about Helena and Kasumi/Clones while Helena had to deal with her fathers mess/Kasumi Clones. Helena choosing to die in the DOA4 outro
before Zack saved her
was pretty much hinting at it.

I'm curious about that DOA5 script, though. If only to see what is different from the 5 we got.

As far as style changes go, I don't mind the "realdoll" look that they dropped, but I think environmental wise they took a nose-dive in quality from 4 to 5. 5's industrial areas are pretty much all the game has. The non-industrial stuff looks awful for what targeted (at the time) last-gen systems. How can you make "Forest" from DOA3 into a pixely-dithery mess in 5U?
 
DOA 2 Ultimate and DOA 4 are still two of the best 3d fighting games ever, and he's absolutely right that the series hasn't been remotely the same since he left! DOA5 is decent fun, but it's no match for DOA2U or DOA4. I hope that Itagaki makes a fighting game again sometime, he may have some problems but he makes really great fighting games...




Honestly, I think DOA5 is the best DOA ever and I loved all of the games. To me it plays it similar to the older games, but it feels a tighter and technically it seems to have more depth with the deepest fighting engine of the series and I love the character redesigns. Imo, the backgrounds are still good enough and worth the sacrifice for the superior models.
 

mackmoney

Member
I've been a fan of the series since the start (turning to it as a VF Lite) and I consider DOA 5 to be the best in the series by a wide margin.
 
DoA5 is the best in terms of mechanics. By far. Some good environments but a lot look like up-rezzed PS2 stuff. And that's being generous. I think stylistically there's a lot they can improve on to make fights more dynamic and exciting, but the core(what matters most) is rock solid. Also the character models have improved tenfold with the new more realistic look compared to the anime dolls they were in the past. I do certainly appreciate all Itagaki did to get the series as far as he did, because we might not have DoA5 or future games without him. Hope his new game turns out well.
 
I prefer DOA5, over the revered DOA4. Glad they decided to change the character models from those "CG anime dolls" to the current models. Sure the story was dumb, but guess what, it's a fighting game. Dumb stories are almost a requirement.

They've tried to make DoA looks more serious, but it looked more stupid.
The game comes over as too serious.

Really? It's kinda hard to take the DoA series serious in the first place when all the female's chests move the way they do. I for one like how "serious" these games have become, they are like crazy overly dramatic Japanese soap operas.

DoA5 is the best in terms of mechanics. By far. Some good environments but a lot look like up-rezzed PS2 stuff. And that's being generous. I think stylistically there's a lot they can improve on to make fights more dynamic and exciting, but the core(what matters most) is rock solid. Also the character models have improved tenfold with the new more realistic look compared to the anime dolls they were in the past. I do certainly appreciate all Itagaki did to get the series as far as he did, because we might not have DoA5 or future games without him. Hope his new game turns out well.

Well said.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
I've been a fan of the series since the start (turning to it as a VF Lite) and I consider DOA 5 to be the best in the series by a wide margin.

Same here. DOA4 is actually my least favorite in the series, in fact. I was much happier with DOA2 and DOA3. Itagaki leaving Team Ninja was great for DOA but awful for Ninja Gaiden.
 

Vazra

irresponsible vagina leak
DOA4 gameplay balance was shit, sure it looks pretty but it doesnt change the mediocre balance they had there. Give me DOA5 gameplay and character models with DOA3 stages (I find 4 new stages forgettable as 5 tbh)
 

Escalario

Banned
DoA:D was a great entry-level game in the series. It got me intrested in the rest of the games. Itagaki comes off as pretty pretentious. "If it's not made by me, it's shit".
 
Top Bottom