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Microsoft's indie developer's still haven't got their September payments.
- Thread starter H1PSTER
- Start date
Y'know I used to dislike Kotaku but after their change in direction they've become fantastic for stuff like that, they report pretty much the full story.
They're H1PSTERs... Couldn't resist. But I agree but I'll still a walk away now...
I had this username before it was cool.
So they discover a technical error like this within 24 hours of this news blowing up?
What a coincidence. [/s]
Most of them probably reached out to MS as well and wanted to give them a chance to respond before publishing. Then there is the obvious post on Twitter, so they publish. So it basically just boils down to their headline and how much they choose to include in the story.
PaulKersey
Member
Probably meant he is sitting on a mountain of cash owed to indie devs.
Dude said they recently learned of it, and that it won't happen again...which I am assuming Chris is savvy enough to not make this claim unless they've identified what was causing the issue and have either resolved, or are 100% certain they know how to correct.
Is it possible that the developers complaining were in contact with the wrong parties?
Call me crazy, but I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt. If it is bullshit, then they're about to be called out on it.
Is it possible that the developers complaining were in contact with the wrong parties?
Call me crazy, but I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt. If it is bullshit, then they're about to be called out on it.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
yikes. dun goofed. I guess props to the OP or whomever brought this to light lol. I wonder when they would have even gotten paid if this wasn't made public.
EventHorizon
Member
1. There is no way that Microsoft didn't know about this since it is likely that many devs have been shouting at the top of their lungs about not getting paid. On the off chance that MS really didn't learn about this until recently then that isn't a mitigating factor, it's a condemnation of their indie relationships and the lack of importance MS pays them
2. This has been a recurring issue
3. Because of my first two points it's insulting to the devs specifically and to us in general that they are blaming this on a "technical issue". The real issue was that this wasn't a priority until it became a PR problem. They are now compounding the problem by trying to cover it up.
4. It doesn't matter that this is a 360 only issue. The problem is that the pattern has been established that Microsoft will try to intimidate or screw over indie developers whenever they get the chance. The parity clause is another such example of their strong arm tactics.
5. "Because everybody is doing it" or "It's standard practice for big companies" is not an excuse as some have posted here
It's official now. Microsoft = The Grinch
2. This has been a recurring issue
3. Because of my first two points it's insulting to the devs specifically and to us in general that they are blaming this on a "technical issue". The real issue was that this wasn't a priority until it became a PR problem. They are now compounding the problem by trying to cover it up.
4. It doesn't matter that this is a 360 only issue. The problem is that the pattern has been established that Microsoft will try to intimidate or screw over indie developers whenever they get the chance. The parity clause is another such example of their strong arm tactics.
5. "Because everybody is doing it" or "It's standard practice for big companies" is not an excuse as some have posted here
It's official now. Microsoft = The Grinch
Bomber Bob
Banned
Lol Microsoft time to shut down and give the money back to the shareholders.
I'm willing to believe them that it's a technical error.
But I'd also believe someone thinking that Microsoft had no intention on fixing this any time soon until today when this started gaining publicity.
George Claw M.D.
Member
I'm sure something was fucked up and they're finally fixing it. MS aren't purposely withholding payments. More likely, I just think it was a low-priority item for them until it made news. At large companies it can take forever for submitted requests/issues to be handled by the engineers. More important/high priority shit always jumps ahead of you in the queue. XBLIG was likely in the low-priority pile.
Wait another 2 weeks.........suure why not hm? i mean it has been 45 days add 2 more weeks on the pile.
Goodacre0081
Member
so, this is a recurring problem and it finally gets rectified by being a news story. it's amazing what actual investigative journalism can do in an industry that has a serious lack of accountability.
if MS was serious about keeping indie support the grace period wouldn't even be needed and this would be a non-issue.
We've known about the issue and been working on a fix for a while - since sometime in November. This is not at all how we want to treat developers.
Did Microsoft actually inform developers that this was happening though? It seems like most were pretty much blindsided by not receiving their payments.
Also as stated by others and the original article, this isn't the first time this has happened.
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Fuckin up.
TheHollowNight
Member
Well that's instilled a lot of confidence bringing my game to their platform!
Why didn't you notify the affected XBLIG developers then, if you indeed knew a while ago? They seem to be completely in the dark. Unless you thought you could sweep this under the rug.
I believe some dev in this thread mentioned the 2 week thing before MS officially announced it via PR.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
You're going to have to throw me a bone here. What does Fez 2 have to do with Xbox?
Also, does Sony or Nintendo even have anything directly relatable to XBLIG that you're comparing it to?
This is not ID@XBOX or even XBLA.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
Holy shit Microsoft. If there's an error in your system, you could at least, you know, let the dev know about it before the time is up!? I'm sure sending out email or inform them is easier than preparing the money. And really, late payment is not cool, but please communicate with your dev a bit better
Wait, wait . . . devs were expecting payment on September 30th and it took until November for someone at Microsoft to realize these payments weren't actually happening?!
Holy hell!!
Now I wonder if MS internally realizes this or had to be informed by the devs that they weren't receiving payment. You'd think a big corporation would internally realize payments weren't going out the day after they were expected.
zeorhymer
Member
So you've known about the issue and didn't give a heads up to the developers saying there was something wrong with it? That is not how you treat your partners.
Saint of Killers
Member
Oh, well, that's all right then.
EventHorizon
Member
That'd carry more weight if it wasn't a recurring problem. The real issue is that indies weren't a priority which is odd because Microsoft wants Windows AppStore developers like crazy on all platforms. This is not sending a good message to those developers. The most favorable interpretation is that this is a "the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing" type of situation. Once again, priorities.
BananasWithGuns
Member
This is not exactly true. In the OP it mentions there's apparently a 64 day acceptable delay or whatever they're calling it. They're 19 days past that.
Go back 19 days and that's mid-November which seems to line up.
There's also this from the end of October, where devs seem to have first been asking about it and the issue was first discovered.
http://xboxforums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/112910.aspx?PageIndex=1
So yeah, probably should have notified developers a few weeks ago but it's not as though Microsoft knew there was an issue for the past 3 months and just didn't say anything.
This is probably going to be one of those "you're probably going to wish you hadn't said that" posts. As issue prevented you giving people the money that they'd earned that they were due to receive in September and you somebody chose to start working on fixing the issue for them...sometime in November but I can't remember when in November as it's not something that's important.
I wonder of "sometime in November" actually means "sometime in December after the games press got hold of it"?
I don't really care what excuse is being thrown around by MS, there is some major incompetence abound. If any of us had effed up this bad at our jobs, we'd be fired.
'Oops we forgot to pay you for almost 2 months and only now noticed.' I'm not the kind of guy to piss and moan when things don't go smoothly but it's pretty normal to be livid about this.
Unless I'm missing something here and the indie developers only get paid every so often but I doubt it.
Edit: I didn't realize there was an 'acceptable delay' period. Still, it's way too long. Doesn't seem very indie friendly at all.
'Oops we forgot to pay you for almost 2 months and only now noticed.' I'm not the kind of guy to piss and moan when things don't go smoothly but it's pretty normal to be livid about this.
Unless I'm missing something here and the indie developers only get paid every so often but I doubt it.
Edit: I didn't realize there was an 'acceptable delay' period. Still, it's way too long. Doesn't seem very indie friendly at all.
It's a 45 day grace period (that MS gives themselves, meh), given this seems to be a fairly extensive grace period they should have been aware of a problem well before the grace period itself ended.
EventHorizon
Member
First off, it's a 45 day grace period not 64. Second, that is the grace period for catching and fixing these kinds of issues. They had 45 days to fix this and they didn't. Do they now get a grace period for their grace period?
FYI, even the 45 day thing is kind of f'd up if you ask me.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
This is Indie devs to Xbox:
I agree; that's just sad. Microsoft at this point are giving Sony & Valve more firepower than ever before when it comes to indies.
BananasWithGuns
Member
The post in the OP mentions 64 and that they're 19 days over that. If that's incorrect then I apologize.
Regardless, I'm not making excuses for Microsoft. I'm just trying to piece together what happened. This problem only seems to have come to light at the end of October/early November with the issue being narrowed down and worked on in Early-Mid November which is why payments are delayed so much. It's still unacceptable but it lines up with what Charla said. Not seeing anything here that would make Microsoft look shady in their dealings.
The biggest takeaway from this is that the support for XBLIG is inadequate. Hopefully Microsoft has realized that now and does something to rectify the situation in the future.